President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby donnaplease » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:47 am

Saint John wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:Meh. Anyway, politicians are all assholes.

Coming to Charlotte this year? Which shows are you catching?

Anyway, it's standard-issue now for everyone to blame everyone else.

Where was YOUR party when Bush was spending like a drunken sorority chick with her CEO daddy's credit card?


No shows toward Charlotte this year, but I sure wish I could make it out that way! Hey, I hammered Bush and hated his reckless spending. He was far too entitlement happy for my tastes. He gave minorities far more than even Clinton did and was still labeled a racist. But I can, at the very least, admire the compassion in that, because it sure as fuck didn't get him any votes. The guy was guided by principles, for better or worse, and didn't give a fuck about polls.


Agree totally, which is most of the reason I don't rip on him for much. Although I'm sure he made mistakes (and has admitted as much) I still feel like he was guided by his principles and his heartfelt desire to protect us after 9/11. I realize lots of other people don't see him that way, but it's all good. :)
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Postby verslibre » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:58 pm

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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:54 am

FF, wow...as if anyone is proposing raising the marginal rate to 100%. :roll:

With a basis for a hypothesis as outrageous as that, one can draw extreme and unrealistic conclusions. We're talking 3% here...from 36% to 39%. If the elderly and disabled have to do "their share" by getting reduced benefits, the rich need to do the same. It's exactly the same thing. And again...tax cuts for the wealthy have NEVER created jobs. I've shown proof of that at least half a dozen times here.

“S&P wasn’t faulting the U.S. for patching the mortgage mess. S&P was reacting to the more systemic cause of America’s budget problems—which are momentous. This cause, S&P noted, is “political,” though “ideological” would be a better word. It springs from a fantasy of the Republican right that has been embraced by the U.S. Congress for fully a decade. This is the fantasy that governments can operate without revenue—more precisely, that a government presiding over an expanding economy as well as an aging population can operate without increases in revenue."
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Postby donnaplease » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:13 am

verslibre wrote:Image


Wow, are those pics of his daughters, Hope and Change? We don't see them much anymore...
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Postby Saint John » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:19 am

Seven Wishes wrote:We're talking 3% here...from 36% to 39%.


Seems like a trivial amount, but someone making $5 million a year would be getting fleeced for $150k. And that's just fucking ridiculous. Keep the tax system blind, tax everyone the same and never punish success. Focus on closing loopholes, instead.


Seven Wishes wrote: And again...tax cuts for the wealthy have NEVER created jobs. I've shown proof of that at least half a dozen times here.


Who gives a shit?!? Do what's right. Period. Besides, how has welfare and entitlements worked out? It's created an army of slaves. people dependent on free checks, free food, free medical insurance and free housing. The left has sold poor people down the river. Systematically and completely incapacitated them with the promise of money and free shit for votes. How many jobs has that created? Giving money to these people is like throwing it into a black hole ... even worse. It gives them the energy and incentive to ... make more babies! Give the money back to the people who earn it. The government should have to work with the budget they're given. We don't even have an inkling of a "revenue" problem. Can you say the same about spending?

S&P wrote:“S&P wasn’t faulting the U.S. for patching the mortgage mess. S&P was reacting to the more systemic cause of America’s budget problems—which are momentous. This cause, S&P noted, is “political,” though “ideological” would be a better word. It springs from a fantasy of the Republican right that has been embraced by the U.S. Congress for fully a decade. This is the fantasy that governments can operate without revenue—more precisely, that a government presiding over an expanding economy as well as an aging population can operate without increases in revenue."


Oh, I see, we don't any revenue in the U.S. :lol: :roll: We can, factually and statistically, "operate without increases in revenue." We just have to cut spending. And that's what we did. Just not nearly enough.
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Postby Melissa » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:23 am

WOW where to start with this? :shock: :lol: The shirt that looks like a diner tablecover.. the obviously too small undies showing their lines :shock: :lol: the pants that are way too small and way too short.. or the blue shoes that match absolutely nothing? :lol:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:12 am

Well, I'd venture to say he knows just a little more about economics than you do.

Also, your rationale is inexplicable, since no-one has suggested NOT cutting spending.

Again, a simple formula. Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, end the Bush tax cuts, and adjust the "entitlement" program payouts, and 70% of the problem is solved.
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Postby Saint John » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 am

Seven Wishes wrote: the Bush tax cuts


They weren't "tax cuts." They were simply the lowering of taxes to a lesser level of unfairness.
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Postby slucero » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:44 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Well, I'd venture to say he knows just a little more about economics than you do.

Also, your rationale is inexplicable, since no-one has suggested NOT cutting spending.

Again, a simple formula. Get the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, end the Bush tax cuts, and adjust the "entitlement" program payouts, and 70% of the problem is solved.



combine that with a 70% cut in spending... I'll buy your ass a beer...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:16 pm

OK, then. I'll play.

Name the programs to cut. Explain why. Then explain how you'll replace them if they're vital to our infrastructure or if they create jobs.

Convince me. I'm open.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:35 pm

From the AP:

A Standard & Poor’s director said for the first time Thursday that the reason the United States lost its triple-A credit rating was that several lawmakers expressed skepticism about the serious consequences of a credit default — a position put forth by some Republicans.

Without specifically mentioning Republicans, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji said the stability and effectiveness of American political institutions were undermined by the fact that “people in the political arena were even talking about a potential default,” Mukherji said.

“That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he added. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”

The statement seems likely to bolster one Democratic line of attack, that it was tea party intransigence — not a shortcoming of leadership by President Barack Obama — that is to blame for the U.S. downgrade, from AAA to AA+. Obama himself called on Republicans to “put country ahead of party” Thursday — a dig at conservatives in Congress who are blocking his agenda.
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Postby Andrew » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:54 pm

AR wrote:Both political parties suck ass.

Politics should not be a career. Public service is just that - SERVICE. No paycheck. Serve because you want to.


I agree.

They all suck.

JUST FIX YOUR DAMN COUNTRY ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU ARE SENDING ME BROKE!!!!!!!
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Postby Saint John » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:27 pm

Seven Wishes wrote:From the AP:

A Standard & Poor’s director said for the first time Thursday that the reason the United States lost its triple-A credit rating was that several lawmakers expressed skepticism about the serious consequences of a credit default — a position put forth by some Republicans.

Without specifically mentioning Republicans, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji said the stability and effectiveness of American political institutions were undermined by the fact that “people in the political arena were even talking about a potential default,” Mukherji said.

“That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he added. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”

The statement seems likely to bolster one Democratic line of attack, that it was tea party intransigence — not a shortcoming of leadership by President Barack Obama — that is to blame for the U.S. downgrade, from AAA to AA+. Obama himself called on Republicans to “put country ahead of party” Thursday — a dig at conservatives in Congress who are blocking his agenda.


Wow ... this has to be the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever read! We can trash former president Bush, call him a murderer, a butcher and everything under the sun, but if some in this country put their foot down for what they believe to be the best interest of the nation's future, and not budge on the ridiculous level of spending and unfair tax brackets of the upper income earners, we lose our credibility and have our rating lowered? Dan, I'm embarrassed for you for posting that nonsense. Seriously, sit back, throw parties out the window and read and digest what S&P is saying. It's unfathomable, in that it seeks to suppress our basic freedom to think and decide for ourselves. And it certainly reeks of political agenda.

As for "putting country in front of party," I think that's a hell of an idea. While democrats fight for money to pass out and continue to enslave the massive voting block that are the beneficiaries of the entitlements, republicans seem content to fight for a very small voting block of the country's highest earners. So, let's analyze that, shall we? You have one party that wants to enslave a massing voting block of people with cradle to grave entitlements in exchange for their continued vote (and for that of their offspring), and you have another party that fights for equality of a few and and put an end to the discrimination of earned income. Yeah, I'd say that one party certainly puts country first, and that party's color is the same one that shows virtually every county after every election to be red. That's what mainly comprises the working middle class of this and the backbone of the country. Not generational clusters of gang-ridden, drug using, government dependent, inner city trash. And those are the people (both "red" and "blue") that want less spending, less government and a uniform tax code. And deep down you know it. :twisted:
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Postby slucero » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:14 pm

Seven Wishes wrote:OK, then. I'll play.

Name the programs to cut. Explain why. Then explain how you'll replace them if they're vital to our infrastructure or if they create jobs.

Convince me. I'm open.


Ok lets 1st get the estimate of the Bush Tax cuts and the Cost of the Wars figured out... I did some research... and found the following... (sources provided)

Cost of Wars:
The Brown University's Watson Institute for International Studies did a study on the cost of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. The report, written by more than 20 economists, political scientists, lawyers, anthropologists and humanitarian personnel for Brown's Watson Institute for International Studies, gives staggering estimates for the cost of military action in those three countries. Nearly ten years since U.S. troops first entered Afghanistan, the report estimates the U.S. government has already spent between $2.3 trillion to $2.7 trillion and will spend at least a trillion more over the next fifty years. That report data is represented here: http://costsofwar.org/article/economic-cost-summary


Lets error on the high side and use $2.7T as the 10 year cost... so $270B per year is the estimated cost (savings). If you want different numbers let me know and of course please provide sources.

Note that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are not included as they are off balance sheet.

Bush Tax Cuts:
(source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html)

President Bush instituted two big tax cuts, one in 2001 and another in 2003. The first was implemented amid rosy predictions of a 10-year, $5.6 trillion surplus; the second was enacted after the economy appeared to stumble after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. When the tax cuts were passed, the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation estimated how much they might reduce revenue: the 2001 tax cuts was pegged at $1.35 trillion over 10 years; the 2003 tax cut was set at $350 billion over 10 years. Those estimates have never been updated, even as the economy and the budget have moved on.

I propose we use $1.7T as the 10 year cost... so $170B per year is the estimated cost (savings)


That gives us $440 Billion per year in savings...


I've built a spreadsheet that includes the Cost of Wars and Bush Tax Cuts

Note that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are not included as they are off balance sheet.


Image



Once the Cost of Wars and Bush Tax Cut amounts are settled we can work the other categories...

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby verslibre » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:36 pm

Don't shoot the messenger!! I thought this was hilarious. :lol:


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Thank you!

Image

Dear American Taxpayer,

For only the second time in my adult life, I am not ashamed of my country. I want to thank the hard-working American people for paying $242,000 for my vacation in Spain...

My daughter Sasha, several long-time family friends, my personal staff and various guests had a wonderful time! Honestly, you just haven't lived until you have stayed in a $2,500.00 per-night private 3-story villa at a 5-Star luxury hotel.

Thank you also for the use of Air Force Two and the seventy Secret Service agents and personnel who tagged along to be sure we were safe and cared for at all times. By the way, if you happen to be visiting the Costa del Sol, I highly recommend the Buenaventura Plaza restaurant in Marbella; great lobster with rice and oysters! I'm ashamed to admit the lobsters we ate in Martha's Vineyard were not quite as tasty, but what can you do if you're not in Europe—you have to just grin and bear it?

Air Force Two (which costs $11,351 per hour to operate according to Government Accounting Office reports) only used 47,500 gallons of jet fuel for this trip, and carbon emissions were a mere 1,031 tons of CO2. These are only rough estimates, but they are close. That's quite a carbon footprint, as my good friend Al Gore would say, so we must ask the American citizens to drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars and drive less, too, so we can lessen our combined carbon footprint.

I know times are hard and millions of you are struggling to put food on the table and are trying to make ends meet. So I do appreciate your sacrifices and do hope you find work soon!

I was really exhausted after Barack took our family on a luxury vacation in Maine a few weeks ago. I just had to get away for a few days.

Cordially,

Michelle (Moochelle) Obama

P.S. Thank you as well for the two BILLION dollar trip to India from which we just returned!

P.P.S. Thank you, too, for that vacation trip to Martha's Vineyard; it was fabulous. And thanks for that second smaller jet that took our dog Bo to Martha's Vineyard so we and the children could have him with us while we were away from the White House for eleven days. After all, we couldn't take him on Air Force One because he might pee on some wires or something.

P.P.P.S. Oh, I almost forgot to say thanks also for our two-week trip to Hawaii at Christmas. That 7,000 square foot house was great! I'm sure looking forward to Barack's re-election for even more exciting vacation trips.

Love ya!

Remember that we all have to share the pain of these economic times equally.
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Postby scarygirl » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:23 pm

verslibre wrote:Don't shoot the messenger!! I thought this was hilarious. :lol:


---------------------------------------------------------------------


Thank you!

Image

Dear American Taxpayer,

For only the second time in my adult life, I am not ashamed of my country. I want to thank the hard-working American people for paying $242,000 for my vacation in Spain...

My daughter Sasha, several long-time family friends, my personal staff and various guests had a wonderful time! Honestly, you just haven't lived until you have stayed in a $2,500.00 per-night private 3-story villa at a 5-Star luxury hotel.

Thank you also for the use of Air Force Two and the seventy Secret Service agents and personnel who tagged along to be sure we were safe and cared for at all times. By the way, if you happen to be visiting the Costa del Sol, I highly recommend the Buenaventura Plaza restaurant in Marbella; great lobster with rice and oysters! I'm ashamed to admit the lobsters we ate in Martha's Vineyard were not quite as tasty, but what can you do if you're not in Europe—you have to just grin and bear it?

Air Force Two (which costs $11,351 per hour to operate according to Government Accounting Office reports) only used 47,500 gallons of jet fuel for this trip, and carbon emissions were a mere 1,031 tons of CO2. These are only rough estimates, but they are close. That's quite a carbon footprint, as my good friend Al Gore would say, so we must ask the American citizens to drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars and drive less, too, so we can lessen our combined carbon footprint.

I know times are hard and millions of you are struggling to put food on the table and are trying to make ends meet. So I do appreciate your sacrifices and do hope you find work soon!

I was really exhausted after Barack took our family on a luxury vacation in Maine a few weeks ago. I just had to get away for a few days.

Cordially,

Michelle (Moochelle) Obama

P.S. Thank you as well for the two BILLION dollar trip to India from which we just returned!

P.P.S. Thank you, too, for that vacation trip to Martha's Vineyard; it was fabulous. And thanks for that second smaller jet that took our dog Bo to Martha's Vineyard so we and the children could have him with us while we were away from the White House for eleven days. After all, we couldn't take him on Air Force One because he might pee on some wires or something.

P.P.P.S. Oh, I almost forgot to say thanks also for our two-week trip to Hawaii at Christmas. That 7,000 square foot house was great! I'm sure looking forward to Barack's re-election for even more exciting vacation trips.

Love ya!

Remember that we all have to share the pain of these economic times equally.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Saint John » Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:22 am

This is a great article from a member of The Tea Party, and it blasts both political parties:


By: JonWakefieldAugust 12, 2011

Everything you need to know about career politicians, the media, and the Tea Party was illustrated in the recent debt ceiling debacle.

It had it all: the Big-Government advocates demanding compromise, yet clearly having no intention of doing anything remotely fiscally responsible; the so-called conservative Republicans passing and then undermining their own bill (Cut, Cap, and Balance), only to ultimately (and predictably) compromise everything away, agreeing to another kick-the-can-down-the-road bill; the American people ending up worse off than they were before, as S&P downgraded our AAA credit rating for the first time in American history; and everyone in the political class, including the media, blaming the Tea Party. They’ve gone so far as to dub S&P’s action the “Tea Party downgrade.”

Sometimes all you can do is marvel at the Big-Government advocates’ total disregard for reality and the intelligence of the American people. They’ll say whatever they want, regardless of its open absurdity, and assume people will believe it.
Slicing through all the rhetoric, though, you get to this simple and undeniable fact: many, if not most, in the Tea Party compromised and reluctantly supported the only legislation that could have prevented the downgrade by increasing the debt ceiling the full amount President Obama requested while implementing real spending cuts. S&P sovereign-rating chief John Chambers said that the two criteria for maintaining our AAA rating were (a) $4 trillion in cuts, and (b) bi-partisan support. The Tea Party largely endorsed the Cut, Cap, and Balance approach, which cut spending by the appropriate level and was passed in the House with support from both Republicans and Democrats. Both criteria were met.

So the Tea Party was the only chance this nation had at maintaining its AAA rating.

But the political establishment, knowing they look silly and are losing ground daily in the eyes of ordinary Americans, are desperate to shift the blame to the only organization that deserves none. They are terrified of us, because we represent an enormous group of engaged and principled Americans actively pushing for real fiscal responsibility, regardless of the political ramifications. They know their only chance at continuing to grow government and spend America into an economic black hole is to discredit the powerful nationwide movement fully committed to stopping them.

This entire story is screaming for a Voices of the Tea Party e-book. Simply describing the events from start to finish of how the debt ceiling was raised in 2011 will illustrate everything wrong with Washington and everything right with the Tea Party movement—a movement convincing the nation it’s finally time to return to America’s founding principles and shift the power from We the Government back to We the People.




Jon Wakefield is a leader of the Richmond, Virginia Tea Party
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:05 am

John Wakefield is CLUELESS as to how the world's largest economy works, and is very far removed from reality.

Again, when you have the chief economist and CEO of S&P both saying in no uncertain terms that it was the Tea Party's approach and demands that caused the credit rating shift, it kind of renders Wakefield's semi-literate rambling irrelevant, and most certainly completely debunked.
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Postby Saint John » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:21 am

Seven Wishes wrote:John Wakefield is CLUELESS as to how the world's largest economy works, and is very far removed from reality.

Again, when you have the chief economist and CEO of S&P both saying in no uncertain terms that it was the Tea Party's approach and demands that caused the credit rating shift, it kind of renders Wakefield's semi-literate rambling irrelevant, and most certainly completely debunked.


Yeah, S&P seems to be a beacon of honesty and accuracy!

SEC Could File Charges against S&P for Meltdown

The recent downgrade on Friday, of the US government by Standard and Poors to question the timing and validity of their downgrade of the full faith and credit of one of the world’s most powerful countries. The action led many to think there was something fishy going on at S&P.

If we go back to 2007 and 2008 just before the Wall Street collapse, we find the rating agency had a hand in the cover up of the real scam going on at AIG, Goldman and Bank of America at the highest possible levels, the CEO’s club of the major US banks. When the Security and Exchange Commission found the source of the derivative scams, the credit agencies were also under scrutiny and the major rating agency was Standard and Poors.
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:20 am

You and I both know they're ALL fucking corrupt. Everything is. No-one is clean.
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Postby Saint John » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:28 am

Seven Wishes wrote:You and I both know they're ALL fucking corrupt. Everything is. No-one is clean.


Agreed. And I think this particular case is no exception, but you're not seeing why. The CEO of Standard & Poors is an ardent Romney supporter. That is why the downgrade occurred. It had nothing to do with The Tea Party's demand for responsible spending. But it was really the only excuse that could be made.
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Postby Rick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:31 am

Saint John wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:You and I both know they're ALL fucking corrupt. Everything is. No-one is clean.


Agreed. And I think this particular case is no exception, but you're not seeing why. The CEO of Standard & Poors is an ardent Romney supporter. That is why the downgrade occurred. It had nothing to do with The Tea Party's demand for responsible spending. But it was really the only excuse that could be made.


If the Tea Party's only agenda was responsible spending, then I think we would all be in their party.
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Postby Saint John » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:28 am

Rick wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:You and I both know they're ALL fucking corrupt. Everything is. No-one is clean.


Agreed. And I think this particular case is no exception, but you're not seeing why. The CEO of Standard & Poors is an ardent Romney supporter. That is why the downgrade occurred. It had nothing to do with The Tea Party's demand for responsible spending. But it was really the only excuse that could be made.


If the Tea Party's only agenda was responsible spending, then I think we would all be in their party.


It's pretty much comprised of responsible spending and small government.
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Postby Rick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:44 am

Saint John wrote:
Rick wrote:
Saint John wrote:
Seven Wishes wrote:You and I both know they're ALL fucking corrupt. Everything is. No-one is clean.


Agreed. And I think this particular case is no exception, but you're not seeing why. The CEO of Standard & Poors is an ardent Romney supporter. That is why the downgrade occurred. It had nothing to do with The Tea Party's demand for responsible spending. But it was really the only excuse that could be made.


If the Tea Party's only agenda was responsible spending, then I think we would all be in their party.


It's pretty much comprised of responsible spending and small government.


And I dig all of that, but they're anti-tax rhetoric goes a little overboard. And they fly right in the face of my profession, which I think you're aware of, and have spoken out about. But, all of that aside, I think they have some good points.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:38 am

Rick wrote:And I dig all of that, but they're anti-tax rhetoric goes a little overboard. And they fly right in the face of my profession, which I think you're aware of, and have spoken out about. But, all of that aside, I think they have some good points.


They don't have an anti-tax rhetoric. They have an anti-HIGH tax stance.

And what do you mean about flying in the face of your profession?
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Postby Rick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:46 am

conversationpc wrote:
Rick wrote:And I dig all of that, but they're anti-tax rhetoric goes a little overboard. And they fly right in the face of my profession, which I think you're aware of, and have spoken out about. But, all of that aside, I think they have some good points.


They don't have an anti-tax rhetoric. They have an anti-HIGH tax stance.

And what do you mean about flying in the face of your profession?


I'm a union man.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:17 am

Rick wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Rick wrote:And I dig all of that, but they're anti-tax rhetoric goes a little overboard. And they fly right in the face of my profession, which I think you're aware of, and have spoken out about. But, all of that aside, I think they have some good points.


They don't have an anti-tax rhetoric. They have an anti-HIGH tax stance.

And what do you mean about flying in the face of your profession?


I'm a union man.


I'm not anti-union by any stretch of the imagination but I do think the large organized unions have really hurt the cause of the average worker, for the most part. I don't trust union execs any more than I do most big company execs.

That being said, I've seen too many instances of the average union worker being basically right of center but voting for the Democrat anyway simply because the Democrat is supposedly pro-union, regardless of the fact that most of the beliefs of Democratic politicians are opposed to what the average union worker believes. My Dad's a prime example of that...He listens to conservative talk radio, watches mostly conservative opinion programs on TV, and is generally far more conservative than the average Democrat, yet he's voted Democrat for most of his life. That's just crazy.
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Postby S2M » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:30 am

I am anti-union. I'll tell you right up front. Union workers need to be weaned off the tit of the collective bargaining cow....Unions protect lazy workers, bad teachers, and promote an environment of entitlement. Believe me, there's nothing more pathetic than watching a grown-ass mail carrier running to the union steward EVERY morning because he he was asked to actually do his job today...

I'm all for what happened in Wisconsin....let's hit every state, I say. I dont want to hear any union worker, who is reaping the benefits of a CBA, bitch about entitlements.
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Postby Rick » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:58 am

S2M wrote:I am anti-union. I'll tell you right up front. Union workers need to be weaned off the tit of the collective bargaining cow....Unions protect lazy workers, bad teachers, and promote an environment of entitlement. Believe me, there's nothing more pathetic than watching a grown-ass mail carrier running to the union steward EVERY morning because he he was asked to actually do his job today...

I'm all for what happened in Wisconsin....let's hit every state, I say. I dont want to hear any union worker, who is reaping the benefits of a CBA, bitch about entitlements.


Read up on what unions have done for this country and the rest of the industrialized world.

If you're looking for another third world country. You're barking up the right tree.
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Postby conversationpc » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:02 am

Rick wrote:Read up on what unions have done for this country and the rest of the industrialized world.

If you're looking for another third world country. You're barking up the right tree.


At this point, I think most of the big labor unions are hurting more than they're helping.
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