President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Rick]

Taxpayer Losses on GM Bailout Are Going to Be Massive
November 22, 2011

Last week the Treasury Department revised its loss estimate for the General Motors (GM) bailout from $14.33 billion to $23.6 billion, thanks to the company's sinking stock price. GM's September 30 closing price, on which the new estimate is based, was $20.18, about $13 less than its December IPO price and $35 less than what is needed for taxpayers to break even, says Shikha Dalmia, a senior analyst at the Reason Foundation.

• The $23.6 billion represents a 25 percent loss on the federal government's $60 billion direct "investment" in GM.
• But that's not all that taxpayers are on the hook for.
• As explained previously, Uncle Sam's special GM bankruptcy package allowed the company to write off $45 billion in previous losses going forward.

This could work out to as much as $15 billion in tax savings that GM wouldn't have had had it gone through a normal bankruptcy.

Why? Because after bankruptcy, the tax liabilities of companies increase since they have no more losses to write off.

This means that the total hit to taxpayers, who still own about a quarter of the company, could add up to $38.6 billion.

Although GM will never make taxpayers whole, taxpayer losses could be mitigated if GM's stock price rises before the Treasury sells its remaining equity, something it was supposed to do by year-end but has postponed under the circumstances.

GM actually has been doing quite well in North America and China with profit margins of 10 percent, among the best in the industry. The company's big weak spot right now is Europe for two reasons:

One, thanks to political pressure and labor resistance, it hasn't been able to address its bloated cost structure there.
Two, Europe's economy is imploding, weakening car sales.

All of this shows why forcing taxpayers to wager their hard-earned dollars on a risky venture was exactly the wrong thing to do.

Source: Shikha Dalmia, "Treasury Admits What Everybody Already Knew: Taxpayer Losses on GM Bailout Are Going to Be Massive," Reason Magazine Blog, November 17, 2011.

For text:

http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/17/treas ... -already-k

We should create the tax payers union and, as one, be majority stock holders. Too diluted though.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Really? Name ONE Republican candidate with HALF the knowledge of foreign affairs as Obama. ONE.

Give me a break, dude.

Jon Huntsman, Ron Paul (agree or not with his foreign views, at least he has some reason and argument behind it)

[Rockindeano]

This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief.

You ought to be fuckin court marshalled, you piece of shit. No right to be called Commander in Chief? You mean Mr. President? Did he not receive more electoral college votes than Jon McCain? Isn't that how democracy works? As much as I hated and despised George W Bush, and he was a piece of shit, he was elected, although in a shady fashion(see Florida). Now, you condemn Obama for apologizing to the world for our past fuck ups, yet YOU, a soldier, under Mr. Obama's command, come out publicly on a message board and say he has no right to be commander in chief?

YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT SOLDIER. Talk about unAmerican? You ought to ashamed and frankly, kicked out of the fuckin military. I don't want the likes of you serving with this bullshit attitude. Fuck you.

And, again, I know I am talking to a retarded douchebafg from the South, but have you taken a look at President Obama's foreign policy decisions/accomplishments in the first three years?

- Ordered that bandana wearin' sonofabitch Somali Pirate gunned down as that filthy African was about to board a cruise ship to rip passengers off.

-Ordered the take down of Osama Bin Laden. Ever heard of this guy before? "Your" glorious republican president couldn't get him, but this "wimply, spineless Democrat DID.

-Ordered drones into Libya, NOT one soldier on the ground....and the policy in Libya resulted in Khadafi being taken down.
Again, NOT ONE SOLDIER INJURED.

Pulling troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq on his watch. Campaign promise come true.


I would love to have you pull up W's foreign policy achievments and compare them to President Obama's. I need a laugh today.

And lastly, show some fuckin' respect for the country; the country who pays your salary- it's President Obama to you, asshole.

I should forward this disrespectful post of yours to your CO, and let him read it. But I don't want to take away any of his coffee break time.

-

[G.I.Jim]

This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief.

You ought to be fuckin court marshalled, you piece of shit. No right to be called Commander in Chief? You mean Mr. President? Did he not receive more electoral college votes than Jon McCain? Isn't that how democracy works? As much as I hated and despised George W Bush, and he was a piece of shit, he was elected, although in a shady fashion(see Florida). Now, you condemn Obama for apologizing to the world for our past fuck ups, yet YOU, a soldier, under Mr. Obama's command, come out publicly on a message board and say he has no right to be commander in chief?

YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT SOLDIER. Talk about unAmerican? You ought to ashamed and frankly, kicked out of the fuckin military. I don't want the likes of you serving with this bullshit attitude. Fuck you.

And, again, I know I am talking to a retarded douchebafg from the South, but have you taken a look at President Obama's foreign policy decisions/accomplishments in the first three years?

- Ordered that bandana wearin' sonofabitch Somali Pirate gunned down as that filthy African was about to board a cruise ship to rip passengers off.

-Ordered the take down of Osama Bin Laden. Ever heard of this guy before? "Your" glorious republican president couldn't get him, but this "wimply, spineless Democrat DID.

-Ordered drones into Libya, NOT one soldier on the ground....and the policy in Libya resulted in Khadafi being taken down.
Again, NOT ONE SOLDIER INJURED.

Pulling troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq on his watch. Campaign promise come true.


I would love to have you pull up W's foreign policy achievments and compare them to President Obama's. I need a laugh today.

And lastly, show some fuckin' respect for the country; the country who pays your salary- it's President Obama to you, asshole.

I should forward this disrespectful post of yours to your CO, and let him read it. But I don't want to take away any of his coffee break time.

-

Yawn...

[Rockindeano]

This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief.

You ought to be fuckin court marshalled, you piece of shit. No right to be called Commander in Chief? You mean Mr. President? Did he not receive more electoral college votes than Jon McCain? Isn't that how democracy works? As much as I hated and despised George W Bush, and he was a piece of shit, he was elected, although in a shady fashion(see Florida). Now, you condemn Obama for apologizing to the world for our past fuck ups, yet YOU, a soldier, under Mr. Obama's command, come out publicly on a message board and say he has no right to be commander in chief?

YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT SOLDIER. Talk about unAmerican? You ought to ashamed and frankly, kicked out of the fuckin military. I don't want the likes of you serving with this bullshit attitude. Fuck you.

And, again, I know I am talking to a retarded douchebafg from the South, but have you taken a look at President Obama's foreign policy decisions/accomplishments in the first three years?

- Ordered that bandana wearin' sonofabitch Somali Pirate gunned down as that filthy African was about to board a cruise ship to rip passengers off.

-Ordered the take down of Osama Bin Laden. Ever heard of this guy before? "Your" glorious republican president couldn't get him, but this "wimply, spineless Democrat DID.

-Ordered drones into Libya, NOT one soldier on the ground....and the policy in Libya resulted in Khadafi being taken down.
Again, NOT ONE SOLDIER INJURED.

Pulling troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq on his watch. Campaign promise come true.


I would love to have you pull up W's foreign policy achievments and compare them to President Obama's. I need a laugh today.

And lastly, show some fuckin' respect for the country; the country who pays your salary- it's President Obama to you, asshole.

I should forward this disrespectful post of yours to your CO, and let him read it. But I don't want to take away any of his coffee break time.

-

Yawn...

I just made some pretty harsh insults/accusations, along with some foreign policy comments, and all you can say is "yawn?" Wow.Just fucking wow.

[G.I.Jim]

This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief.

You ought to be fuckin court marshalled, you piece of shit. No right to be called Commander in Chief? You mean Mr. President? Did he not receive more electoral college votes than Jon McCain? Isn't that how democracy works? As much as I hated and despised George W Bush, and he was a piece of shit, he was elected, although in a shady fashion(see Florida). Now, you condemn Obama for apologizing to the world for our past fuck ups, yet YOU, a soldier, under Mr. Obama's command, come out publicly on a message board and say he has no right to be commander in chief?

YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT SOLDIER. Talk about unAmerican? You ought to ashamed and frankly, kicked out of the fuckin military. I don't want the likes of you serving with this bullshit attitude. Fuck you.

And, again, I know I am talking to a retarded douchebafg from the South, but have you taken a look at President Obama's foreign policy decisions/accomplishments in the first three years?

- Ordered that bandana wearin' sonofabitch Somali Pirate gunned down as that filthy African was about to board a cruise ship to rip passengers off.

-Ordered the take down of Osama Bin Laden. Ever heard of this guy before? "Your" glorious republican president couldn't get him, but this "wimply, spineless Democrat DID.

-Ordered drones into Libya, NOT one soldier on the ground....and the policy in Libya resulted in Khadafi being taken down.
Again, NOT ONE SOLDIER INJURED.

Pulling troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq on his watch. Campaign promise come true.


I would love to have you pull up W's foreign policy achievments and compare them to President Obama's. I need a laugh today.

And lastly, show some fuckin' respect for the country; the country who pays your salary- it's President Obama to you, asshole.

I should forward this disrespectful post of yours to your CO, and let him read it. But I don't want to take away any of his coffee break time.

-

Yawn...

I just made some pretty harsh insults/accusations, along with some foreign policy comments, and all you can say is "yawn?" Wow.Just fucking wow.

All this talk about military service gets me thinking... I'd like to see your DD 214 so we can see what kind of a soldier you were. For someone who "served their country", you sure have a strong hatred for the military. I pay my taxes, I volunteer some of my time for can drives, food collections, etc... I donate money to the Children's Miracle Network. I have served my country for over 20 years. Have I deployed? nope, but I could have been deployed at any time. It's just how my career has panned out.

Does this make me a better person than anyone else? Hell no. It does however give me the right to call out politicians who I think are corrupt and are destroying our country.

So back to the DD214... I'd like to see it so we can see just what kind of soldier you were.

[S2M]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

[Don]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

I don't think anyone is doubting your service, Sean. And there is no need for anyone to post their 214 on a public website.

[S2M]

Take 30 mins out of your day and watch this video....it will change your life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU

[artist4perry]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

I don't think anyone is doubting your service, Sean. And there is no need for anyone to post their 214 on a public website.

Sean you look cute in your uniform!

[RossValoryRocks]

Thanks for the laugh man! This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief. Funniest clips I've seen in a while.

While I don't agree with the way Deano presented it...what you have done here is in direct violation of Article 88 of the UCMJ, if you are an officer, otherwise they can (and sometimes DO) prosecute you under Article 134 which is where acts of speech that are prejudicial to good order and discipline or that could bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

I don't think anyone here would actually turn you in, but you never know.

And asking for Deano's DD214 (I've seen pictures of the fucker driving across the desert in Iraq) is a bit over the top. He served, I know he served for a fact and that is good enough for me.

[RossValoryRocks]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

Rocking dude! You ALMOST have a smile...probably because that picture was taken a few days before you left boot camp.

[G.I.Jim]

Thanks for the laugh man! This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief. Funniest clips I've seen in a while.

While I don't agree with the way Deano presented it...what you have done here is in direct violation of Article 88 of the UCMJ, if you are an officer, otherwise they can (and sometimes DO) prosecute you under Article 134 which is where acts of speech that are prejudicial to good order and discipline or that could bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

I don't think anyone here would actually turn you in, but you never know.

And asking for Deano's DD214 (I've seen pictures of the fucker driving across the desert in Iraq) is a bit over the top. He served, I know he served for a fact and that is good enough for me.

I'm not worried about what I said in here on a Melodic rock forum. I doubt the article covers what you say in a members only forum. It's no different than sending someone a private email. While I could have worded it a little nicer, I do believe it and stand by it. How many vile things has Dean said about Bush for crying out loud??? Hypocrite.

Deano has slung me up under the bus, called me every name in the book and has discredited my service to this country in every way possible more times than I can count. He can go fuck himself! I know you're friends with him, and that's fine. You know he served? that's fine too. I don't. I can prove that I have served honorably to this country and all I was asking him to do was verify his service. If he hadn't slammed my service in every way, I wouldn't give two shits about his service. That's all I'm saying. If he talked to you about your service in the same way, I think you'd probably asking him the same thing. I've made a lot of sacrifices during my career to those I love. I've missed a lot of birthdays, graduations, doctors appointments, etc... And to have someone say all I do is sit around drinking coffee with my thumb up my ass all day while I take money from the taxpayers is bullshit. You know it is.

[artist4perry]

Seriously, weather your a recruiter or a field officer in Iraq, you all serve or did serve and all have done great service to our country. Having that said, all of the guys here have put down one President or another while in office. We all get irritated with government.

I think the saddest thing is to let politics divide friendship. Deano, take a breather and come back when you let some steam off.

[G.I.Jim]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

Rocking dude! You ALMOST have a smile...probably because that picture was taken a few days before you left boot camp.

And thank both of you guys for your service. I wasn't questioning you guys or your service at all. Sorry for the confusion Sean.

[donnaplease]

Dean, I think it's more than just a little disingenuous for you to be calling out Jim for criticizing a president after all the horrible things you have said about GWB on this forum.

[RossValoryRocks]

Thanks for the laugh man! This man has no right to be called Commander In Chief. Funniest clips I've seen in a while.

While I don't agree with the way Deano presented it...what you have done here is in direct violation of Article 88 of the UCMJ, if you are an officer, otherwise they can (and sometimes DO) prosecute you under Article 134 which is where acts of speech that are prejudicial to good order and discipline or that could bring discredit upon the Armed Forces.

I don't think anyone here would actually turn you in, but you never know.

And asking for Deano's DD214 (I've seen pictures of the fucker driving across the desert in Iraq) is a bit over the top. He served, I know he served for a fact and that is good enough for me.

I'm not worried about what I said in here on a Melodic rock forum. I doubt the article covers what you say in a members only forum. It's no different than sending someone a private email. While I could have worded it a little nicer, I do believe it and stand by it. How many vile things has Dean said about Bush for crying out loud??? Hypocrite.

Deano has slung me up under the bus, called me every name in the book and has discredited my service to this country in every way possible more times than I can count. He can go fuck himself! I know you're friends with him, and that's fine. You know he served? that's fine too. I don't. I can prove that I have served honorably to this country and all I was asking him to do was verify his service. If he hadn't slammed my service in every way, I wouldn't give two shits about his service. That's all I'm saying. If he talked to you about your service in the same way, I think you'd probably asking him the same thing. I've made a lot of sacrifices during my career to those I love. I've missed a lot of birthdays, graduations, doctors appointments, etc... And to have someone say all I do is sit around drinking coffee with my thumb up my ass all day while I take money from the taxpayers is bullshit. You know it is.

Oh I don't agree with Deano's politics...and I agree his calling your service into question is not cool either...but he is right about saying that about the President...and this isn't a members only forum...it is public and VERY different from a private email. But hey you do what you think is cool...it's your career if you are wrong...just saying...I tend to err on the side of caution in cases like this.

And I for one and very thankful we have soldiers like you defending out freedoms.

[slucero]

Obama the foreign affairs diplomat ushering in a new Cold War...

Russian president threatens to target U.S. missile shield
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_19399307
By Vladimir Isachenkov

Associated Press
Posted: 11/23/2011 09:43:54 AM PST
Updated: 11/23/2011 05:21:31 PM PST


MOSCOW -- Russia threatened on Wednesday to deploy missiles to target the U.S. missile shield in Europe if Washington fails to assuage Moscow's concerns about its plans, a harsh warning that reflected deep cracks in U.S.-Russian ties despite President Barack Obama's efforts to "reset" relations with the Kremlin.

President Dmitry Medvedev said he still hopes for a deal with the U.S. on missile defense, but he strongly accused Washington and its NATO allies of ignoring Russia's worries. He said Russia will have to take military countermeasures if the U.S. continues to build the shield without legal guarantees that it will not be aimed against Russia.

The U.S. has repeatedly assured Russia that its proposed missile defense system wouldn't be directed against Russia's nuclear forces, and it did that again Wednesday.

"I do think it's worth reiterating that the European missile defense system that we've been working very hard on with our allies and with Russia over the last few years is not aimed at Russia," said Capt. John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman. "It is ... designed to help deter and defeat the ballistic missile threat to Europe and to our allies from Iran."

White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said the United States will continue to seek Moscow's cooperation, but it must realize "that the missile defense systems planned for deployment in Europe do not and cannot threaten Russia's strategic deterrent."

But Medvedev said
Moscow will not be satisfied by simple declarations and wants a binding agreement. He said, "When we propose to put in on paper in the form of precise and clear legal obligations, we hear a strong refusal."

Medvedev warned that Russia will station missiles in its westernmost Kaliningrad region and other areas, if the U.S. continues its plans without offering firm and specific pledges that the shield isn't directed at its nuclear forces. He didn't say whether the missiles would carry conventional or nuclear warheads.

In Brussels, NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he was "very disappointed" with Russia's threat to deploy missiles near alliance nations, adding that "would be reminiscent of the past and ... inconsistent with the strategic relations NATO and Russia have agreed they seek."

"Cooperation, not confrontation, is the way ahead," Rasmussen said in a statement.

The U.S. missile defense dispute has long tarnished ties between Moscow and Washington. The Obama administration has repeatedly said the shield is needed to fend off a potential threat from Iran, but Russia fears that it could erode the deterrent potential of its nuclear forces.

"If our partners tackle the issue of taking our legitimate security interests into account in an honest and responsible way, I'm sure we will be able to come to an agreement," Medvedev said. "But if they propose that we 'cooperate,' or, to say it honestly, work against our own interests, we won't be able to reach common ground."

Moscow has agreed to consider a proposal NATO made last fall to cooperate on the missile shield, but the talks have been deadlocked over how the system should be operated. Russia has insisted that it should be run jointly, which NATO has rejected.

Medvedev also warned that Moscow may opt out of the New START arms control deal with the United States and halt other arms control talks, if the U.S. proceeds with the missile shield without meeting Russia's demand. The Americans had hoped that the START treaty would stimulate progress in further ambitious arms control efforts, but such talks have stalled because of tension over the missile plan.

[steveo777]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

You are one ugly motherfucker. Is that a uni-brow? (cute kid, though!) LOL

I'm fucking with you. Thanks for serving!

[S2M]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

You are one ugly motherfucker. Is that a uni-brow? (cute kid, though!) LOL

I'm fucking with you. Thanks for serving!

I believe that was taken on Ash Wednesday....yeah, I'm sticking with that story.....

[conversationpc]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

You are one ugly motherfucker. Is that a uni-brow? (cute kid, though!) LOL

I'm fucking with you. Thanks for serving!

I believe that was taken on Ash Wednesday....yeah, I'm sticking with that story.....

Why do military and police always have the dumbest looking hats?

Regardless, I also thank you for serving.

[conversationpc]

Both parties suck ass. The democrats did the same thing when Bush was in office. Obscure and obfuscate and hope good news doesn't help the incumbent president.

Not true. The spineless Democrats acquiesced to just about every shitty idea the Bush Administration had, and there were many. Their complete lack of resolve and inability to stand up to any of his terrible policies make them just as responsible as the GOP for the debacle that was the first decade of this millenium.

Garbage...Both parties play the exact same political games. If you don't realize that by now, you're just as much of a myrmidon as most of the rest of the voters in this country.

[Rockindeano]

Dean, I think it's more than just a little disingenuous for you to be calling out Jim for criticizing a president after all the horrible things you have said about GWB on this forum.

oh goodie, another republican rushing to the defense of poor little Jimmy. How fucking sad.

Donna, can you not read? Comprehend? I got all over his ass for a couple reasons:

1- To say Obama doesn't deserve to be called Commander in Chief is just stupid. Did he not receive more votes than his opponent?

2- My anger towards Jimmy's remarks were that he IS a sitting member IN THE US MILITARY! President Obama IS his boss, his Commander in Chief! The differemce between Jimmy speaking ill will about the President, and me bashing Bush 4 ways to Sunday is, I was NOT a member of the military when I did so. Jimmy doesn't have "freedom of speech" while in the rank of command. Being a citizen is much different than being a serving soldier. Is this that hard to figure out?

Case in point- If Obama is out in the Iraqi desert and tells Jimmy to "cover that east flank," and Jimmy doesn't think he should be Commander in Chief, why at all should he listen to Obama? Basically, what Jimmy is saying is, "I don't respect him as CIC, and have no plans to listen to him. If that is going to be the prevelant attitude in the armed forces, then we as a military are fucked. Respect the office jim, you're better than this. Especially respect the office while you are IN THE MILITARY.

THAT is my problem with Jimmy. Also the fact that Jimmy can't argue the achievments of Obama's foreign affairs the first three years. That could have indeed been the BEST three year run for any president, anytime. What he accomplished is astounding. You simply cannot argue it, and if you do, you're just jealous and angry for doing so.

OK Pubs, carry on with your right leaning Board. I keep saying I need to get off of here, but for some reason, feel the need to come clean jimmys clock a couple more times before doing so.

Oh and PS- I do NOT want ANY of you right leaning sonsofbitrches thanking me for my service. I did so for Country, not political party. Besides, I was just a liberal soft piece of shit from California...probably a weak soldier compared to the big burly squirrel burger eatin motherfuckers of the swampy South. When you finish off that bottle of Jack, along with that Mayo and butter sandwich, feel free to post a rebuttal Jimmy.

[slucero]

D-No...


BUTTON THE FUCK UP.

[Ehwmatt]

My 214 is somewhere packed away....here's a picture.

You are one ugly motherfucker. Is that a uni-brow? (cute kid, though!) LOL

I'm fucking with you. Thanks for serving!

Coming from someone who hasn't ever posted a picture of any kind, that's rather rich.

[G.I.Jim]

Dean, I think it's more than just a little disingenuous for you to be calling out Jim for criticizing a president after all the horrible things you have said about GWB on this forum.

oh goodie, another republican rushing to the defense of poor little Jimmy. How fucking sad.

Donna, can you not read? Comprehend? I got all over his ass for a couple reasons:

1- To say Obama doesn't deserve to be called Commander in Chief is just stupid. Did he not receive more votes than his opponent?

2- My anger towards Jimmy's remarks were that he IS a sitting member IN THE US MILITARY! President Obama IS his boss, his Commander in Chief! The differemce between Jimmy speaking ill will about the President, and me bashing Bush 4 ways to Sunday is, I was NOT a member of the military when I did so. Jimmy doesn't have "freedom of speech" while in the rank of command. Being a citizen is much different than being a serving soldier. Is this that hard to figure out?

Case in point- If Obama is out in the Iraqi desert and tells Jimmy to "cover that east flank," and Jimmy doesn't think he should be Commander in Chief, why at all should he listen to Obama? Basically, what Jimmy is saying is, "I don't respect him as CIC, and have no plans to listen to him. If that is going to be the prevelant attitude in the armed forces, then we as a military are fucked. Respect the office jim, you're better than this. Especially respect the office while you are IN THE MILITARY.

THAT is my problem with Jimmy. Also the fact that Jimmy can't argue the achievments of Obama's foreign affairs the first three years. That could have indeed been the BEST three year run for any president, anytime. What he accomplished is astounding. You simply cannot argue it, and if you do, you're just jealous and angry for doing so.

OK Pubs, carry on with your right leaning Board. I keep saying I need to get off of here, but for some reason, feel the need to come clean jimmys cock a couple more times before doing so.

Oh and PS- I do NOT want ANY of you right leaning sonsofbitrches thanking me for my service. I did so for Country, not political party. Besides, I was just a liberal soft piece of shit from California...probably a weak soldier compared to the big burly squirrel burger eatin motherfuckers of the swampy South. When you finish off that bottle of Jack, along with that Mayo and butter sandwich, feel free to post a rebuttal Jimmy.

I told you I don't roll like that buddy. Thanks for the offer though. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving.

[donnaplease]

Dean, I think it's more than just a little disingenuous for you to be calling out Jim for criticizing a president after all the horrible things you have said about GWB on this forum.

oh goodie, another republican rushing to the defense of poor little Jimmy. How fucking sad.

Donna, can you not read? Comprehend? I got all over his ass for a couple reasons:

1- To say Obama doesn't deserve to be called Commander in Chief is just stupid. Did he not receive more votes than his opponent?

2- My anger towards Jimmy's remarks were that he IS a sitting member IN THE US MILITARY! President Obama IS his boss, his Commander in Chief! The differemce between Jimmy speaking ill will about the President, and me bashing Bush 4 ways to Sunday is, I was NOT a member of the military when I did so. Jimmy doesn't have "freedom of speech" while in the rank of command. Being a citizen is much different than being a serving soldier. Is this that hard to figure out?

Case in point- If Obama is out in the Iraqi desert and tells Jimmy to "cover that east flank," and Jimmy doesn't think he should be Commander in Chief, why at all should he listen to Obama? Basically, what Jimmy is saying is, "I don't respect him as CIC, and have no plans to listen to him. If that is going to be the prevelant attitude in the armed forces, then we as a military are fucked. Respect the office jim, you're better than this. Especially respect the office while you are IN THE MILITARY.

THAT is my problem with Jimmy. Also the fact that Jimmy can't argue the achievments of Obama's foreign affairs the first three years. That could have indeed been the BEST three year run for any president, anytime. What he accomplished is astounding. You simply cannot argue it, and if you do, you're just jealous and angry for doing so.

OK Pubs, carry on with your right leaning Board. I keep saying I need to get off of here, but for some reason, feel the need to come clean jimmys clock a couple more times before doing so.

Oh and PS- I do NOT want ANY of you right leaning sonsofbitrches thanking me for my service. I did so for Country, not political party. Besides, I was just a liberal soft piece of shit from California...probably a weak soldier compared to the big burly squirrel burger eatin motherfuckers of the swampy South. When you finish off that bottle of Jack, along with that Mayo and butter sandwich, feel free to post a rebuttal Jimmy.

It doesn't take an "R" or a "D" after your name to call out hypocrisy, Dean. Yes, BO won the election (we're all feeling the effects of that). But using your example of a boss and an 'employee' (so to speak), I'm sure all of us have at one time or another said that our boss doesn't deserve to be the boss - that they aren't qualified to hold that position. I know I have, and I've heard/read lots of your stories too. Now, taking Stu's comments into consideration, along with my respect for the military in general, I agree that sometimes we should choose our words a little wiser. You are assuming facts not in evidence though with your case in point - just because he doesn't agree with or even perhaps respect BO as CIC doesn't mean he wouldn't do what he's being asked to do. Again, we do that in our civilian jobs/lives all the time.

I think we should all respect the office, regardless of who is holding it. As a veteran, you also have a responsibility in that same vein. I won't even grace your PS with a response.

[slucero]

..................

[S2M]

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

Theodore Roosevelt

[conversationpc]

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

Theodore Roosevelt

Great quote but it's even better set in more context...

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."