President Barack Obama - My what big ears you have!

Off Topic Babble. The really important stuff...

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Postby Monker » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:36 am

slucero wrote:
Monker wrote:
slucero wrote:FACT: YOU said, "\Clinton (and Congress) is directly responsible for the banking collapse."

I did and its a fact. Most economists point to that legislation as the starting point for the 2008 collapse...

FACT: I did NOT say you defended Bush, but was responding to your statement I quoted above by stating the below facts:

FACT: Bush had YEARS to do something about the deregulation of banks and chose to do nothing...THAT is a demostrated lack of leadership. Signing a bill is NOT a demonstrated lack of leadership.

Clinton studied economics at Oxford.. so signing a bill that repeals an existing Act that came about as a result of an Congressional investigation into the cause of a economic collapse - when there was clear empirical evidence that the some conditions would have the same results... is a monstrous demonstration of a lack of leadership, and also a validation of Einsteins Theory of Insanity...

Obama even challenged the act and that it led to deregulation that, among other things, allowed for the creation of something banned since the Great Depression.



FACT: By Bush NOT doing anything about deregulation for YEARS shows that he shares in the blame for the collapse

Never said he didn't.. and I agree he shares the blame... as does Congress

FACT: Your inability to recognize the above fact shows your bias towards Bush and against Clinton.

No.. I'm not biased at all.. Bush was an idiot.. however .. you wish to make this a Dem vs. Rep thing.. when it's clearly a leadership thing... but whatever..

Opinion: mini-bush was the worst leader this country has ever had. Daddy Bush was the most mediocre leader this country has ever had. Clinton was one of the best leaders this nation has ever had. He replaced JFK as the icon that modern Democrats strive to emulate...that is not an easy task. Too bad Republicans can't find a rival for Reagan.

Again - you wish to make this a Dem vs. Rep thing.. when it's clearly a leadership thing...

Face it - you're a partisan hack... you can't see the wrong in a leader regardless of political party.. just admit it and you'll feel better...



You are trying to spin it any way you can. The bottom line is doing NOTHING is a lack of leadership...and that is EXACTLY what Bush did - nothing. Clinton and Bush SHARE responsibility for it....and it happened under Bush's watch and as a 'leader' he 'should' take the responsibility himself. But, as a failed leader, he would never do that.

You are just as partisan as anybody else...the difference is you try to spin your way out of it. But, when things like this come up where even YOU say that it's a "leadership thing" but fail to admit how poorly W performed as a 'leader'...until it is pointed out And, you end up contradicting yourself by first saying, "Clinton (and Congress) is directly responsible for the banking collapse." Then, just a few sentences later, you admit Bush shares the blame. You can't see how bias that is because you ignore one half of the equation because it does not fit in your rhetoric of Clinton as a leader? Before you start accusing others of being partisan, maybe you should stop acting like that yourself.



Actually.. Clinton, Bush and multiple Congresses share the blame, but you don't care about Congress cause yer too wrapped up in your hate for anything that isn't Democrat...

Its spin if I say Bush is culpable.. and if you say he is its "FACT"..... lmao..

pull your head out... or better yet.. leave it in.. and breathe deeply.. you obviously like the smell....


Oh, so now that you lost the "leadership" battle, you want to do more misdirection and point to Congress, which we was not even part of discussing the "leadership" of the various recent Presidents.

Of course congress shares some of the blame. So do greedy banks who were making loans that they KNEW were going to fail. So do all of the various traders who sold and bought and resold the crap loans. So do the idiot consumers who accepted those loans when they knew they couldn't afford them. Anybody else? How about realtors who KNEW the houses they were selling were way over valued and pushed buyers into loans they couldn't afford?

Actually, I think it's the work of ancient aliens. What kind technology would it take to dumb down the entire population and leadership of a world so much that it caused the world economy to collapse under the weight of the collective stupidity of the population. Only ancient aliens would have the technology to genetically manipulate the population to forget that if they borrow money for a house they would have to pay it back, that if a person can't pay a loan back then they shouldn't get a loan, if a loan is not going to be paid off, it is not worth buying or selling...Only ancient could create such stupidity...it just can't happen naturally.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:51 pm

The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?
No one, not ONE person is trying to keep women from going an buying condoms, IUD's, diaphrams, the pill or even the morning after pill and using them as they so desire. The whole rub is that the Government is NOT ALLOWED, EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED by the VERY FIRST and arguably MOST IMPORTANT of the Amendements from doing so. Is the language in the Amendement THAT hard to understand?? Seriously?
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Postby slucero » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

Monker wrote:
slucero wrote:
Monker wrote:
slucero wrote:FACT: YOU said, "\Clinton (and Congress) is directly responsible for the banking collapse."

I did and its a fact. Most economists point to that legislation as the starting point for the 2008 collapse...

FACT: I did NOT say you defended Bush, but was responding to your statement I quoted above by stating the below facts:

FACT: Bush had YEARS to do something about the deregulation of banks and chose to do nothing...THAT is a demostrated lack of leadership. Signing a bill is NOT a demonstrated lack of leadership.

Clinton studied economics at Oxford.. so signing a bill that repeals an existing Act that came about as a result of an Congressional investigation into the cause of a economic collapse - when there was clear empirical evidence that the some conditions would have the same results... is a monstrous demonstration of a lack of leadership, and also a validation of Einsteins Theory of Insanity...

Obama even challenged the act and that it led to deregulation that, among other things, allowed for the creation of something banned since the Great Depression.



FACT: By Bush NOT doing anything about deregulation for YEARS shows that he shares in the blame for the collapse

Never said he didn't.. and I agree he shares the blame... as does Congress

FACT: Your inability to recognize the above fact shows your bias towards Bush and against Clinton.

No.. I'm not biased at all.. Bush was an idiot.. however .. you wish to make this a Dem vs. Rep thing.. when it's clearly a leadership thing... but whatever..

Opinion: mini-bush was the worst leader this country has ever had. Daddy Bush was the most mediocre leader this country has ever had. Clinton was one of the best leaders this nation has ever had. He replaced JFK as the icon that modern Democrats strive to emulate...that is not an easy task. Too bad Republicans can't find a rival for Reagan.

Again - you wish to make this a Dem vs. Rep thing.. when it's clearly a leadership thing...

Face it - you're a partisan hack... you can't see the wrong in a leader regardless of political party.. just admit it and you'll feel better...



You are trying to spin it any way you can. The bottom line is doing NOTHING is a lack of leadership...and that is EXACTLY what Bush did - nothing. Clinton and Bush SHARE responsibility for it....and it happened under Bush's watch and as a 'leader' he 'should' take the responsibility himself. But, as a failed leader, he would never do that.

You are just as partisan as anybody else...the difference is you try to spin your way out of it. But, when things like this come up where even YOU say that it's a "leadership thing" but fail to admit how poorly W performed as a 'leader'...until it is pointed out And, you end up contradicting yourself by first saying, "Clinton (and Congress) is directly responsible for the banking collapse." Then, just a few sentences later, you admit Bush shares the blame. You can't see how bias that is because you ignore one half of the equation because it does not fit in your rhetoric of Clinton as a leader? Before you start accusing others of being partisan, maybe you should stop acting like that yourself.



Actually.. Clinton, Bush and multiple Congresses share the blame, but you don't care about Congress cause yer too wrapped up in your hate for anything that isn't Democrat...

Its spin if I say Bush is culpable.. and if you say he is its "FACT"..... lmao..

pull your head out... or better yet.. leave it in.. and breathe deeply.. you obviously like the smell....


Oh, so now that you lost the "leadership" battle, you want to do more misdirection and point to Congress, which we was not even part of discussing the "leadership" of the various recent Presidents.

Of course congress shares some of the blame. So do greedy banks who were making loans that they KNEW were going to fail. So do all of the various traders who sold and bought and resold the crap loans. So do the idiot consumers who accepted those loans when they knew they couldn't afford them. Anybody else? How about realtors who KNEW the houses they were selling were way over valued and pushed buyers into loans they couldn't afford?

Actually, I think it's the work of ancient aliens. What kind technology would it take to dumb down the entire population and leadership of a world so much that it caused the world economy to collapse under the weight of the collective stupidity of the population. Only ancient aliens would have the technology to genetically manipulate the population to forget that if they borrow money for a house they would have to pay it back, that if a person can't pay a loan back then they shouldn't get a loan, if a loan is not going to be paid off, it is not worth buying or selling...Only ancient could create such stupidity...it just can't happen naturally.



I think the "PWNED" on the previous page would indicate who lost...


Had Glass-Steagal not been repealed
  • the groundwork for the bank malfeasance would not have existed
  • the bundled securities (crap loans) wouldnot have existed
  • the idiot consumers who accepted those loans when they knew they couldn't afford them, would still exist, but the loans would not

The source of this?

The Congress that passed the bill and the President who signed it into law.


Dictionary.com defines "leadership" as follows:

lead·er·ship [lee-der-ship]
noun
  1. the position or function of a leader, a person who guides or directs a group: He managed to maintain his leadership of the party despite heavy opposition. Synonyms: administration, management, directorship, control, governorship, stewardship, hegemony.
  2. ability to lead: As early as sixth grade she displayed remarkable leadership potential. Synonyms: authoritativeness, influence, command, effectiveness; sway, clout.
  3. an act or instance of leading; guidance; direction: They prospered under his strong leadership.
  4. the leaders of a group: The union leadership agreed to arbitrate.



by their actions... they "lead" us... and as a consequence of those actions, i.e., that "leadership".... look where we are today...

They KNEW what would happen if they repealed Glass-Stegal... but they did it anyways...

Call it whatever the fuck you want till your nuts fall off your chin....

I call it a lack of leadership...
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Postby Monker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:15 am

slucero wrote:by their actions... they "lead" us...


EXACTLY what I have been saying. Creating and signing a bill is NOT a 'lack of leadership'. Failing to do something about it is.
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Postby Monker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:28 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.
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Postby Rick » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:32 am

Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


Would this be in place of that tasteless cracker? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:59 pm

Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.
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Postby Monker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:54 pm

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.


Well, thank you for completely avoiding answering the question.

How does health insurance stop anybody from practicing their religion?
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:14 pm

Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.


Well, thank you for completely avoiding answering the question.

How does health insurance stop anybody from practicing their religion?


It forces the Church to pay for birth control, which is in direct contravention of it's beliefs thereby preventing the "free exercise thereof"...Seriously, the 1st Amendment isn't really that hard to understand...it is very simple language.
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Postby Monker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:52 pm

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.


Well, thank you for completely avoiding answering the question.

How does health insurance stop anybody from practicing their religion?


It forces the Church to pay for birth control, which is in direct contravention of it's beliefs thereby preventing the "free exercise thereof"...Seriously, the 1st Amendment isn't really that hard to understand...it is very simple language.


Oh, whatever, it means very little to me. Any organization who has so many issues with sexual crimes coming out the closet to say they are offended by contraception is so ironic and comedic. The entire issue is just pathetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:49 am

Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.


Well, thank you for completely avoiding answering the question.

How does health insurance stop anybody from practicing their religion?


It forces the Church to pay for birth control, which is in direct contravention of it's beliefs thereby preventing the "free exercise thereof"...Seriously, the 1st Amendment isn't really that hard to understand...it is very simple language.


Oh, whatever, it means very little to me. Any organization who has so many issues with sexual crimes coming out the closet to say they are offended by contraception is so ironic and comedic. The entire issue is just pathetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A


That's a very narrow minded view Monker...if they can force the Catholic or any other Church to do that then the 1st Amendment really means nothing...and if that happnens it's OVER in this country for Freedom.
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Postby parfait » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:32 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.


Well, thank you for completely avoiding answering the question.

How does health insurance stop anybody from practicing their religion?


It forces the Church to pay for birth control, which is in direct contravention of it's beliefs thereby preventing the "free exercise thereof"...Seriously, the 1st Amendment isn't really that hard to understand...it is very simple language.


Oh, whatever, it means very little to me. Any organization who has so many issues with sexual crimes coming out the closet to say they are offended by contraception is so ironic and comedic. The entire issue is just pathetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A


That's a very narrow minded view Monker...if they can force the Catholic or any other Church to do that then the 1st Amendment really means nothing...and if that happnens it's OVER in this country for Freedom.


How can any rational, moral person deny someone contraception? The current Pope did and basically halted decades of HIV/AIDS preventive work. You would think that most people wouldn't listen to the Catholic church regarding contraception and sex, when most of them are either celibate or ephebophiles, but they do unfortunately, so any "moral" institution would see their responsibility of educating and promoting healthy, safe sex and STD prevention.

It's time people stop listening to this disgusting cults of sexual deviants and charlatans, and instead think for them self.
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Postby Monker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:44 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
Monker wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:The First Amendment to the United States Consititution reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Those who think that forcing the Catholic Church to go against is beliefs and have them be FORCED by law to provide birth control is ok, let me ask a simple question: What part of "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" do you just not get?


How does what is in a person's health insurance coverage stop that person from practicing their religion? Are Catholics who are not employed by the Catholic church not able to practice their religion if their health insurance covers contraception?

I guess the church just doesn't have faith that Catholics can control themselves sexually...and there is a lot of evidence of that fact so maybe they're right.

It may be offensive to the Catholic church and not a good political idea...but it is not unconstitutional in any way...nobody is forcing the church to hand out condoms.


EVERY lawyer I have spoke too (I know quite a few (left and right leaning), including a retired PA Supreme Court Judge, and 2 retired Federal Magistrates) has said in no uncertain terms this is completely unconsititutional. Again..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Forcing the Catholic Church (Which SELF INSURES) to provide for their employees to receive birth control is prohibiting the free execise of religion.


Well, thank you for completely avoiding answering the question.

How does health insurance stop anybody from practicing their religion?


It forces the Church to pay for birth control, which is in direct contravention of it's beliefs thereby preventing the "free exercise thereof"...Seriously, the 1st Amendment isn't really that hard to understand...it is very simple language.


Oh, whatever, it means very little to me. Any organization who has so many issues with sexual crimes coming out the closet to say they are offended by contraception is so ironic and comedic. The entire issue is just pathetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-L3JMk7C1A


That's a very narrow minded view Monker...if they can force the Catholic or any other Church to do that then the 1st Amendment really means nothing...and if that happnens it's OVER in this country for Freedom.


Ah, Stuie, I just don't much about this issue...I think it's more material for comedians then anything else.

But, of course, when it comes to building Mosques, and government trying to stop them, people are all for that and the first amendment gets tossed aside.
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Postby Gideon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:51 am

Ouch, Monker. :lol:
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Postby Memorex » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:52 am

Contraception should be "available" to all who want it. This is America, land of the plenty. But while everyone focuses on Church and State, don't forget the bigger issue. The government just ORDERED insurance companies/employers to provide this benefit to EVERYONE FOR FREE!!!!! But it's not free. Now we get higher premiums. Now those that will not use this benefit and have no need for it will be paying for someone else, who may or may not be able to afford it.

So, people need to eat. And all your arguments above could pertain to food, clothing, housing and since contraception is newly added, we must add every health-related item.

Why in the world - someone on God's green earth please tell me - must an insurance company provide contraception to the girl next door to me for free when her parents make $500,000 a damn year? How can anyone process that? We all keep seeing these poor defenseless women that can't help but get pregnant (my sister being one of them) and somehow equate that to a need to provide free drugs to the whole country. Someone has to tell me how that is a sane, economically sound decision.

My son has a particular affliction and I pay about $100 a month as my co-pay for his medicine. How is his issue any less of an issue than the girl next door that doesn't want to get pregnant?

I'm so disgusted at the overreaching power of the government.

I could get 100% behind subsidies for disadvantaged people needing contraception. I don't mind at all giving my money to a worthwhile cause. Free contraception to all people in all economic groups is not, by anyone's calculations, a worthwhile cause. It's an election year gimmick and power-grab.

So keep fighting on the smaller issue and forget the bigger ones. Be the good little lambs.
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Postby Fact Finder » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:56 am

Memorex wrote:Contraception should be "available" to all who want it. This is America, land of the plenty. But while everyone focuses on Church and State, don't forget the bigger issue. The government just ORDERED insurance companies/employers to provide this benefit to EVERYONE FOR FREE!!!!! But it's not free. Now we get higher premiums. Now those that will not use this benefit and have no need for it will be paying for someone else, who may or may not be able to afford it.

So, people need to eat. And all your arguments above could pertain to food, clothing, housing and since contraception is newly added, we must add every health-related item.

Why in the world - someone on God's green earth please tell me - must an insurance company provide contraception to the girl next door to me for free when her parents make $500,000 a damn year? How can anyone process that? We all keep seeing these poor defenseless women that can't help but get pregnant (my sister being one of them) and somehow equate that to a need to provide free drugs to the whole country. Someone has to tell me how that is a sane, economically sound decision.

My son has a particular affliction and I pay about $100 a month as my co-pay for his medicine. How is his issue any less of an issue than the girl next door that doesn't want to get pregnant?

I'm so disgusted at the overreaching power of the government.

I could get 100% behind subsidies for disadvantaged people needing contraception. I don't mind at all giving my money to a worthwhile cause. Free contraception to all people in all economic groups is not, by anyone's calculations, a worthwhile cause. It's an election year gimmick and power-grab.

So keep fighting on the smaller issue and forget the bigger ones. Be the good little lambs.



You are arguing with people who preach "Make Love Not War" ..yet.."Abort the unwanted fetus"...at the drop of a hat without thought.
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Postby RedWingFan » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:36 am

Repeat after me. Nobody is looking to ban contraceptives. The problem and the issue is Obama. They're trying to fool you with this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1QI4P0Y ... ata_player. Don't be a fool like Monker and 7 Wishes.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:26 am

parfait wrote:How can any rational, moral person deny someone contraception? The current Pope did and basically halted decades of HIV/AIDS preventive work. You would think that most people wouldn't listen to the Catholic church regarding contraception and sex, when most of them are either celibate or ephebophiles, but they do unfortunately, so any "moral" institution would see their responsibility of educating and promoting healthy, safe sex and STD prevention.

It's time people stop listening to this disgusting cults of sexual deviants and charlatans, and instead think for them self.


NO ONE IS DENYING ANYONE CONTRACEPTION!!! I don't know how it is done in your country, but our Constitution is VERY explicit about what the Government can and cannot do.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:28 am

Monker wrote:Ah, Stuie, I just don't much about this issue...I think it's more material for comedians then anything else.

But, of course, when it comes to building Mosques, and government trying to stop them, people are all for that and the first amendment gets tossed aside.



When did the Government actually ban that Mosque again??? Oh wait...the Federal Government didn't...and for the record I thought that the people trying to stop the building were idiots.

Of course you don't care...until actually effects you...I on the other hand don't ever want it to get that far.
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Postby Monker » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:23 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Memorex wrote:Contraception should be "available" to all who want it. This is America, land of the plenty. But while everyone focuses on Church and State, don't forget the bigger issue. The government just ORDERED insurance companies/employers to provide this benefit to EVERYONE FOR FREE!!!!! But it's not free. Now we get higher premiums. Now those that will not use this benefit and have no need for it will be paying for someone else, who may or may not be able to afford it.

So, people need to eat. And all your arguments above could pertain to food, clothing, housing and since contraception is newly added, we must add every health-related item.

Why in the world - someone on God's green earth please tell me - must an insurance company provide contraception to the girl next door to me for free when her parents make $500,000 a damn year? How can anyone process that? We all keep seeing these poor defenseless women that can't help but get pregnant (my sister being one of them) and somehow equate that to a need to provide free drugs to the whole country. Someone has to tell me how that is a sane, economically sound decision.

My son has a particular affliction and I pay about $100 a month as my co-pay for his medicine. How is his issue any less of an issue than the girl next door that doesn't want to get pregnant?

I'm so disgusted at the overreaching power of the government.

I could get 100% behind subsidies for disadvantaged people needing contraception. I don't mind at all giving my money to a worthwhile cause. Free contraception to all people in all economic groups is not, by anyone's calculations, a worthwhile cause. It's an election year gimmick and power-grab.

So keep fighting on the smaller issue and forget the bigger ones. Be the good little lambs.



You are arguing with people who preach "Make Love Not War" ..yet.."Abort the unwanted fetus"...at the drop of a hat without thought.


Except for the fact that I pretty much agree with him. LOL.
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Postby Memorex » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:06 pm

I think Obama would like to have this one back:

In an interview Monday with Denver station KCNC-TV, President Obama spoke about support for U.S. troops, saying that “we‘ve got to make sure that we’re caring for our soldiers,” but followed the seemingly compassionate pledge up with a disparaging remark that appeared to dismiss and diminish America’s service men and women outright. In speaking about our troops, the president said: “You can’t help but be proud of them generally.”
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:51 am

Wow, you're really fishing now.

Incidentally, that response was a direct follow up to a straightforward question about the American soldier who killed 16 Afghans earlier this week.

And RWF, your posts are boring, repetitive, and completely lacking in style or substance. "Don't be a fool like Monker and 7 Wishes"...come on, man. Can't you do better than that? Bring some actual facts to the table, and with a little flair, too!

We need to get this forum back up and running again. You fuckers know Dean would want that.
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Postby RedWingFan » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:26 am

Seven Wishes wrote:And RWF, your posts are boring, repetitive, and completely lacking in style or substance. "Don't be a fool like Monker and 7 Wishes"...come on, man. Can't you do better than that? Bring some actual facts to the table, and with a little flair, too!

The facts I brought up in 2008 are being proven right every day with this disaster of a president. All I have to do is sit back and let reality prove you the fool you've been, as evidenced by my sig below.
Seven Wishes wrote:"Abysmal? He's the most proactive President since Clinton, and he's bringing much-needed change for the better to a nation that has been tyrannized by the worst President since Hoover."- 7 Wishes on Pres. Obama
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:46 pm

Just an opinion there, RWF. Nothing else. No facts stated, nor any attempt made to do so.

Interestingly, spending under Bush went up EIGHTY EIGHT PERCENT (in adjusted dollars) between 2001 and 2009. Under Obama, it has gone up only SEVEN PERCENT. Fascinating, no?

http://www.bls.gov/cps/tables.htm#History_m

Also, after losing over 4 million jobs in the final four years of the Bush Junior years, the private sector has added 1.8 million new jobs since the end of Bush's second recession (in other words, since the auto bailout and stimulus packages).

Just an FYI.
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Postby slucero » Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:12 pm

Looks like the CBO's not so neutral after all...


http://www.scribd.com/doc/85551861/Pham ... l-Grassley

Lan T. Pham

February 23,2011
Senator Chuck Grassley
Ranking Member
United States Senate Judiciary Committee
135 Hart Senate Offrce Building
Washington, DC 20510

Re: Inquiry into Reprisal Action by the Congressional Budget Office

Dear Ranking Member Grassley:

At the suggestion of Mr. Gary Aguirre, I describe below the circumstances of my discharge by the Congressional Budget Office and request your assistance to the extent you believe there is something appropriate you could do on my behalf. As the Congress grapples with the economic and budgetary challenges facing the nation, the Congress relies on the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to provide "objective" and "nonpartisan" analyses to inform its policy decisions.l This mandate gives the CBO a unique status and confers upon the agency an impression of credibility and authority, as its analyses can alter
the course of national policies. The CBO cultivates this image internally and externally, and enjoys the protection of the press.

Yet, my brief time as a senior staffer financial economist at the CBO suggests that there is room for doubt about this perception of an objective and non-partisan CBO. Alternative view points are suppressed or questioned as "pessimistic" by CBO Director Doug Elmendorf. Economic facts inconvenient to the CBO's forecasts of economic growth, recovery and other estimates are omitted or suppressed so the desired message may be delivered. For providing truthful and correct analyses of the issues, I was abruptly fired after 2.5 months at the CBO.

Suppression of Alternative Views

In October 2010,I wrote about the conditions and developments in the banking sector and mortgage markets. The events surrounding the collapse of the housing market triggered what many consider to be the worst economic and financial crisis in 80 years since the Great Depression. The effects from this market with $10 trillion in residential mortgage debt outstanding exposed systemic risks and put into question the solvency of financial institutions worldwide. In addition to the global response, the U.S. government and Federal Reserve have responded with trillions of dollars in extraordinary fiscal and monetary stimulus, the bulk of which was aimed at shoring up the banks and financial institutions.

I was repeatedly pressured by the CBO Assistant Director, Deborah Lucas, in charge of the Financial Analysis Division to not write nor discuss issues in the banking sector and mortgage markets that might suggest weakness in these sectors and their consequences on the economy and households. Assistant Director Deborah Lucas explicitly sought assurances from the Assistant Director in charge of the Macroeconomic Analysis Division that the issues I raised
would not lower the CBO's forecasts of economic growth. More broadly, what emerges is a pattern of suppression by the CBO to prevent public writings about the damage brought on by the banking and financial sector and housing collapse. While disregarding factual and empirical evidence, the CBO leadership insisted:

  • Statements could not be made attributing the decline in property tax revenues to foreclosures and the decline in home prices, which runs counter to common sense and the findings by the U.S. Senate Joint Economic Committee of the U.S. Congress.
  • Foreclosures had no impact on home prices (negative extemalities, spillover effects). This runs counter to common sense, and a prominent national home price index by Corelogic in the CBO's key database subscription showing clearly the distressed homes component of the index worsens home price declines.
  • The decline in home prices had no impact on household wealth, which runs counter to common sense and the fact that the home is a significant asset or source of 'wealth' for most households. According to the Federal Reserve, about $7 trillion in home equity evaporated in the housing collapse.
  • The emerging foreclosure fraud problems in September 2010 were due to media "sensationalism", "the kind of event of the moment where we should be adding skepticism, not just repeating the hype in the press" and discussing it "lackcs judgment about what is important'.


Let's take a closer look at the implications of the unknown risks and liabilities of the foreclosure fraud problems unfolding through the legal process, which led the nation's largest banks to suspend foreclosures nationwide. Issues at the heart of the foreclosure problems pertain to securitization (pooling of mortgages that collateralize mortgage-backed securities "MBS") and the Mortgage Electronic Registration System (MERS), which purports to have legal standing on electronic records of ownership on about 65 million or half of all mortgages in the country. MERS, with Fannie Mae and Bank of America as founding members, facilitated Wall Street's ability to expedite the pooling of subprime mortgages into MBSs by bypassing standard ownership transfer procedures as the housing bubble escalated, the collapse of which devastated the economy and households. The CBO leadership suppressed and minimized concerns about these issues, viewing these concerns in October 2010 as media "sensationalism" and "hype." Such statements if made public would raise serious questions about the credibility and objectivity of the CBO, and the kinds of analyses that would be provided to Congress and allowed to be made known to the public. This "hype" has entered the nation's courtrooms:

  • On January 7,2011, the Supreme Court of Massachusetts agreed with a lower court decision that invalidated the foreclosures actions of two of the largest banks on mortgages that were in MBSs; the legal right to foreclose was not proven.
  • Courts in Florida have also followed suit.
  • On February 14,2011, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert E. Grossman in Central Islip, New York rendered the MERS system invalid. ln rendering his decision, Judge Grossman acknowledged that his decision would have "significant impact."
  • On February 16,2011, MERS released a statement, an exce{pt which reads: "The proposed amendment will require Members to not foreclose in MERS' name...During this period we request that Members do not commence foreclosures in MERS' name."

The implications have profound financial and economic consequences that would be of compelling interest to Congress and the public, but the CBO sought to silence a discussion of such risks, that in reality, have been mateiralizing. These risks put into question the ability of investors or bondholders to make claims on the collateral (the homes) that underlies trillions of dollars in MBSs, the bulk of which are now guaranteed by the govemment-sponsored enterprises ("GSEs" Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). This affects $10 trillion in residential mortgage debt outstanding, of which $7 trillion in mortgage-backed securities (MBSs) are backed by about 65 million homes, and roughly $3 trillion is in the form of mortgage loans on bank balance sheets.

The $7 Trillion MBS Problem -Foreclosure Problems and Buy Backs

Banks, Private Label MBSs. About $1.5 trillion MBSs are bank-issued, private label MBSs that were collateralized by primarily subprime mortgages, $330 billion of which is delinquent. Banks have publicly acknowledged these risks by recently increasing reserves against repurchase of bad mortgages from investors and litigation costs. As of third quarter 2010, the nation's largest four banks - Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, and Wells Fargo - have reserved about $10 billion for potential mortgage buy back demands,l a "miniscule" amount given the $330 billion in delinquent mortgages. The combined net worth of the largest four banks is about $700 billion.

The foreclosure problems may put even greater pressure on banks as some state courts and legislation have made dents into the legal foundation of MERS. The implication is that investors may be holding trillions in MBSs that are unsecured, which places even greater pressure on banks for mortgage buy-backs. Banks may also face greater losses in not having the legal authority under MERS to foreclose and liquidate the collateral. These issues (among others) are concentrated among a handful of the largest banks that hold about three quarters of the nation's banking assets, a concentration that has been deemed a systemic risk to the nation's economic and financial system. The CBO dismissing such issues prevents an analysis of the risks, so that the public may be forced again to shoulder the consequences for which they have not been a given a voice or a choice.

GSEs, Agency MBSs. The other $5.5 trillion MBSs are issued or guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, whose fate is currently being debated by policy makers. During the first nine months of 2010, Fannie Mae repurchased about $195 billion in delinquent loans from its MBSs;2 Freddie Mac faced $5.6 billion in buy back demands.3 The amount of these repurchases in less than one year alone would wipe out Bank of America, the largest bank in the country. The GSEs hold $266 billion in bank-issued private label MBSs, which have experienced the highest rates of default. Recently, Bank of America paid $2.8 billion to the GSEs to settle $7 billion in mortgage buy-back requests, a private transfer of loss to the public that remains unbeknownst to the public.

A discussion of these and other issues were not acceptable to the CBO leadership, but unrealistic assumptions are encouraged and significant facts inconsistent with their predetermined views are overlooked in providing economic analyses and estimates to Congress. For instance, the CBO leadership appeared panic-stricken when I suggested that interest rates were likely to rise in early November 2010 despite the Federal Reserye's quantitative easing programs, and what that may mean for example, to an already weakened housing market. Indeed, interest rates have risen sharply since then from 4.3Yoto 5.}Yo onthe 30 year fixed-rate mortgage "FRM" (as of 2117111). Providing a correct assessment did not seem to matter.

For presenting a truthful and correct assessment of where things stood, I was fired. I know other economists who have been pressured to fall in line with the leadership, but are afraid to voice their concerns for fear that it could endanger their careers. I am prepared to identify them, but only with your assurance that their identities will be remain confidential at this time.

I deeply appreciate your taking the time to consider the information I have placed before you.

Sincergly,
Lan T. Pham, Ph.D.

Attachments

New York Times Article
Time Line
Mortgage Forecast Memo
Banking Forecast Memo
Banking Forecast Memo: Revision of Key Points


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Postby RedWingFan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:34 am

Seven Wishes wrote:Just an opinion there, RWF. Nothing else. No facts stated, nor any attempt made to do so.

Interestingly, spending under Bush went up EIGHTY EIGHT PERCENT (in adjusted dollars) between 2001 and 2009. Under Obama, it has gone up only SEVEN PERCENT. Fascinating, no?

http://www.bls.gov/cps/tables.htm#History_m

Also, after losing over 4 million jobs in the final four years of the Bush Junior years, the private sector has added 1.8 million new jobs since the end of Bush's second recession (in other words, since the auto bailout and stimulus packages).

Just an FYI.

You're such a brain dead, retard drone. Thankfully you're in the minority. Enjoy your assbeating in November fool.

Just an FYI.
:lol:
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Postby Seven Wishes2 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:22 pm

This is why no-one respects any of your posts. A simple, irrefutable fact gets posted, and instead, you try to turn the tables and make it personal...even though you've just been proven wrong, once again.

And Obama is leading both GOP candidates by almost 10 points in most national polls. So, I'm actually in the majority.

Try again!
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Postby Monker » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:00 am

Seven Wishes wrote:This is why no-one respects any of your posts. A simple, irrefutable fact gets posted, and instead, you try to turn the tables and make it personal...even though you've just been proven wrong, once again.

And Obama is leading both GOP candidates by almost 10 points in most national polls. So, I'm actually in the majority.

Try again!


Anybody who thinks the Republicans can win this election is a moron. From the first debate I said none of these guys are electable...and nothing has changed. Well, except for the economy improving, and that doesn't help Republicans.

The majority of Republicans don't seem to want Romney.
No other option seemed to get any traction and keep it.

Gingrich seems to actually WANT a brokered convention...maybe to make a deal with Santorum for VP, who knows.
Santorum, however, is way too radical to win enough independents to beat Obama....and adding Gingrich only makes it worse.

Ron Paul is a thorn in everybody's side....the guy so many like but nobody wants to vote for

So, either they lose Independents with Santorum. Or, they lose their base with Romney. Either way, Republicans lost and Obama wins....and that doesn't even account for all of the infighting from now until the Republican convention...time Republicans COULD have spent campaigning against Obama...and time Obama can sit bqack, do nothing, and save his money until he needs it.

Republicans lost this one. There is no winning move they can make.
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Postby brandonx76 » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:20 am

Monker wrote:
Republicans lost this one. There is no winning move they can make.


As much as I would like to agree, if the 2000 election is any indication, this is not in the bag for the dems by any stretch of the imagination...definitely looking to celebrating once it's all said and done, but don't crack the champagne until it's time...same goes for you repub voters.
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Postby slucero » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:19 am

Wow... just wow...


from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York...

http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfe ... arket.html

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