Kor'n wrote:With that Dianne Warren hit song " When I See You Smile."
And "Price of Love."
Another "After All These Years." Not much talk about either.
Kor'n wrote:Revelation should not even be mentioned here with those "note for note' recordings of the Greatest Hits. Revelation is one sale, two counts.
Gideon wrote:Accreditation doesn't change.
Nor does the lack of "accreditation" on that flop Eclipse with no "note for note" recordings.
Kor'n wrote:"If a band sticks around long enough it turns into a tribute band for years Journey has logged around the oldies circuit with a rotating cast of singers trying to impersonate Steve Perry and now most unlikely, Filipino who spends an entire disc delivering note for note" of their classics like "DSB." Rollingstone 7/2008
Gideon wrote:As far as 'opinions and theories' go, people can trade quotes and comments from bandmates and reviewers to trump one party over the other.
Indeed, as they have often done.
Gideon wrote:Rolling Stone has its lion's share of unpleasant remarks about SP and SP-fronted Journey, so for the sake of time, energy, and sanity, it's probably not best to let this discussion regress into who can quote what to make the other side look bad.
Sometimes reality sets in when the facts are apparent.
"Nothing bad to say about his bandmates." 1998
"Pure tone and passionate sincerity cannot today be denied." 2008
Kor'n wrote:Eclipse was "released at the height of Journey's" coming from a fluke and fake platinum album and it has sold less than 70k.
Gideon wrote:Journey has never enjoyed the success it did during the early 80s. Comparing Eclipse's release during the brief resurgence afforded by Revelation to Street Talk's release a year after Frontiers is inane. By the way, I just checked and the platinum accreditation remains despite your claims of its illegitimacy.
According to some on journeymusic.com, they were to become the "biggest comeback in rock n roll history." 2009/10
"Next album, fresh voice could be bigger than Escape." 2010
Just like the multi-"platinum accreditation" of Street Talk "despite your claims of its illegitimacy."
Kor'n wrote:It is understood most times that the band more so than not will do better than the solo artist,
Gideon wrote:One wonders why, if SP is the sole source of Journey's success.
He was the PRIMARY "SOURCE." Your refusal to acknowledge that allows words to "twist and turn."
Kor'n wrote:but SP scored multiplatinum
Gideon wrote:Because of Journey's greater, enduring success.
"Because of" the music Journey created with Steve Perry "enduring success." In 2011 "Journey sold 703,000 physical albums," less that 100k credited to pre or post Perry.
Kor'n wrote:and gold, completely in line with what would be expected from the solo artist. Perry sells 500k with FTLOSM and TBF two years later goes platinum.
Gideon wrote:And the fact that TBF went platinum just 2 years after FTLOSM went gold hints very strongly that the people were interested in Journey beyond just SP's involvement.
"And the fact that" Perry disappeared and came back with gold assures "strongly that people were interested in [Perry] beyond just [Journey's] involvement" and he was capable of scoring "accreditation" w/o them.
Kor'n wrote:Is this the 'signature horse' of which you speak?
'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'
Kor'n wrote:Straight from the horse's mouth - "greatest success came with [not because of] Steve Perry."
"Like a Harley w/o a key." Cain 1984/86
Gideon wrote:^ You've made my point for me. As Monker says, you post propaganda where you hand [b]all the credit [/b]to SP. We can do the same with JC and the argument goes on and on and on and on. The reality is that both of them forged Journey's success together in addition to Neal. Your indulgence in revisionist history notwithstanding, that fact doesn't change.
Yes, your "^" is right on or near "key." Thought I would give you "a taste of your own medicine," and "that fact doesn't change."
Kor'n wrote:Journey does not possess any successful albums that do not bear the name of Steve Perry, but Steve Perry possesses multi-platinum and gold that do not bear the name of Cain and/or Schon.
And as I explained, it is ultimately because of his greater, enduring success with Journey. Or to put it another way, while "City of Hope" isn't tearing up the charts, neither is "Oh Sherrie."
The general public cares only for SP's works with Journey (i.e. with JC and NS) and everything else he's done is obsolete in comparison.
Everything pre-Perry and post-Perry "with Journey is obsolete in comparison." At least "Oh Sherrie" is still on "the charts' and is/has been featured in movies, etc.
Kor'n wrote:Not much talk of that "POL" on first album.
Kor'n wrote:Much like there's not much talk of "Oh Sherrie" or "Foolish Heart" in today's era. Doesn't change the fact that it was successful at the time.
Do you mean the "Oh Sherrie" that is played daily and featured in movies, etc.? And, of course, LTS that is SP penned also has been featured. And, of course, Lights, AWYWI are featured more so than Cain era songs, except the "DSB."
Kor'n wrote:Unfortunately, none of the platinum success of that first album with "When I See You Smile" rolled over to album #2.
Kor'n wrote:Not disputing that. There's a difference between transient success and enduring success; SP and Bad English were examples of the former, Journey at large is an example of the latter.
"There's is a difference between" retirement and "logging around" w/o artistic integrity.
"Robert Plant knew when to call it quits with LZ." RS 2010
Kor'n wrote:Waite called OA "rubbish." Thankfully with SP it turned into turn it into a hit.
Gideon wrote:How fortunate we are then that Jon Cain brilliantly crafted the song for SP to sing.
"How fortunate we are then that" Perry was able to "make something out of nothing."
Kor'n wrote:DSB has been called "soul stirring cheese."
Kor'n wrote:Again we plebes manage to reap the benefits of Jon Cain's brilliance and SP's voice.
"Again "Cain's brilliance" seemingly comes with a sticker, SP "approved only."
Kor'n wrote:Faithfully - Did I read that the record books also show SP's name on it. Maybe he "changed the melody to suit [his] voice" as he said of OA.
Don't think either will be listed as great writers.
As far as their pedigree as writers is concerned, it matters not at the end of the day whether or not they're considered great writers. But the evidence indicates that JC is and has always been the lynchpin to Journey's successful writing.
"The evidence indicates that [SP] is and has always been the lynchpin to Journey's successful writing." Unfortunately "no successful writing" w/o Steve Perry kinda send your "evidence" on a down....hill spiral. Cain told Perry what his daddy said "DSB" which saying has been around since the beginning.