President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby Behshad » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:49 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand.”
― Milton Friedman


That speaks volumes for success in business !
It means they can sell the sand so fast that there will be a huge demand and therefore shortage of sand, it's basically like saying the government could sell ice to eskimos :lol: ;) impressive , don't you think ?! :)



“The key insight of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations is misleadingly simple: if an exchange between two parties is voluntary, it will not take place unless both believe they will benefit from it. Most economic fallacies derive from the neglect of this simple insight, from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another.”
― Milton Friedman



Dude , you failed with your first copy & paste, Yet you had a chance to come back, but you chose another copy & paste and failed again.
Bravo FakeFinder, man of many ideas and thoughts ! :lol: :twisted:
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Postby Monker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:42 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:You see, the real deal is I don't really get into watching these presidential speeches because they really don't say anything we don't already have a pretty good idea about. The contents of these speeches seem very basic. And I've never made a comment one way or the other on any of the previous Obama speeches.

However, this speech in particular stands out because he actually said something that was unexpected. I've never heard a president tell the public: "if your successfull, you didn't build that, someone else built that" and "you think your smart.....you're not smart....let me tell you, there are a lot of smart people out there"...

I've never heard nor have I ever expected to hear the President of the United States in a public address try and take away accomplishments from hard working business owners. And I still try to understand the premise of doing so.
He says in one sentence "you think your smart....you're not smart". He then goes on to say "let me tell you, there are a lot of smart people out there".

What is he getting at here? Who's he talking to? I think what we need to do is realize that he's specifically addressing two groups of people in those two sentences.

First group is the successful business owners: "You think you're smart....you're not smart".

Second group, the individuals who pissed away everything and didn't amount to anything substantial in life: "let me tell you, there are a lot of smart people out there".

What was the purpose of saying these things? If this isn't what he meant, this then goes back to the fact that this was a piss poor speech. A well drafted and presented speech wouldn't have left us with so much guess work.


You should get a show on Fox. We can call you mini-Beck.

He told you what the point is. I told you what the point is. You ignore it in favor of your weird fantasy conspiracy theory.
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Postby Monker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:46 pm

Fact Finder wrote:“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand.”
― Milton Friedman


And, it a world where business dominates unregulated, you get financial collapse...twice.
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Postby Monker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:52 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
Behshad wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years there'd be a shortage of sand.”
― Milton Friedman


That speaks volumes for success in business !
It means they can sell the sand so fast that there will be a huge demand and therefore shortage of sand, it's basically like saying the government could sell ice to eskimos :lol: ;) impressive , don't you think ?! :)



“The key insight of Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations is misleadingly simple: if an exchange between two parties is voluntary, it will not take place unless both believe they will benefit from it. Most economic fallacies derive from the neglect of this simple insight, from the tendency to assume that there is a fixed pie, that one party can gain only at the expense of another.”
― Milton Friedman


“The available worlds looked pretty grim. They had little to offer him because he had little to offer them. He had been extremely chastened to realize that although he originally came from a world which had cars and computers and ballet and Armagnac, he didn't, by himself, know how any of it worked. He couldn't do it. Left to his own devices he couldn't build a toaster. He could just about make a sandwich and that was it.”
-- Douglas Adams
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:16 am

Well Monker, you can come up with all the excuses you want. The bottom line is the speech has been given and the message has been sent. What happens in November comes next.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:53 am

Fact Finder wrote:Good morning sunshine....


WASHINGTON - Ted Cruz's stunning come-from-behind victory over David Dewhurst in Tuesday's Republican Senate runoff sends an unmistakable message to the political establishment in Washington that the next U.S. Senate, like the Republican-controlled House, is going to be more conservative and less willing to compromise with President Barack Obama or even a possible President Mitt Romney.

"This is going to reverberate around the Capitol in Washington and around the country," said Republican strategist Matt Mackowiak. "If you can do this in Texas, you can do it anywhere. This is a hell of a wake-up call for the establishment."

The decisive win by Cruz, a first-time office-seeker, over one of the Texas' most powerful officeholders underscores the growing clout of tea party conservatives in Republican nominating contests and the struggles that both moderate and conservative establishment figures are facing in the current political climate of grass-roots fury at the status quo.

"People perceive a crisis," said Clemson University political scientist David James Woodard, a specialist in conservative politics. "They want leadership, not experience. They're open to ideological appeals more than a résumé."



:) :D 8) :wink: :lol:

what do we have left now, about 98 days or so? Time flies doesn't it.


Good news indeed, but its too bad that the Republican party is set to nominate a big government loving liberal from Massachusetts to head up its presidential ticket.
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Postby Monker » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:07 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Well Monker, you can come up with all the excuses you want. The bottom line is the speech has been given and the message has been sent. What happens in November comes next.


I'm not making 'excuses', just giving you the facts you don't want to hear.

The election does NOT come next. What comes 'next' is Romney's VP choice. Then there are two conventions. Then there are debates, and VP debates.

There is a LOT of politics before the elections...In fact, I don't think the contest really gets into full swing until after the conventions. So, all either candidate has to do at this point is keep it pretty much even...and that is exactly where we are.
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Postby SF-Dano » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:19 am

I take the Pres's speech in a different meaning, and I am probably personalizing it too much. Example - The construction company owner who says " I built that shiny beautiful new building on the waterfront overthere". However, he never swung a hammer on the job or even took the time to come check it out during construction, though he did provide the money or took the credit risk to do the job. Now there is the worker who actually swung the hammer, concrete man who laid the foundation, plumber, foreman, electrician, etc. They provided the sweat, pain, and craftsmanship.

I see too many owners today who seem to forget or marginalize the fact that the end "success" is a combination of what both the "successful business owner" and the employee/worker provide.

This is the idea, though stated in a very poorly worded way, that I think Obama was trying to get at. "You have a successful business. Well somebody helped you." Yes you worked hard to build your business, but unless you are a one man show doing it all, some employee/s (yes compensated) helped contribute to the end success of the business and this fact should not go unrecognized or taken lightly.
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Postby Monker » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:34 am

Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Good morning sunshine....


WASHINGTON - Ted Cruz's stunning come-from-behind victory over David Dewhurst in Tuesday's Republican Senate runoff sends an unmistakable message to the political establishment in Washington that the next U.S. Senate, like the Republican-controlled House, is going to be more conservative and less willing to compromise with President Barack Obama or even a possible President Mitt Romney.

"This is going to reverberate around the Capitol in Washington and around the country," said Republican strategist Matt Mackowiak. "If you can do this in Texas, you can do it anywhere. This is a hell of a wake-up call for the establishment."

The decisive win by Cruz, a first-time office-seeker, over one of the Texas' most powerful officeholders underscores the growing clout of tea party conservatives in Republican nominating contests and the struggles that both moderate and conservative establishment figures are facing in the current political climate of grass-roots fury at the status quo.

"People perceive a crisis," said Clemson University political scientist David James Woodard, a specialist in conservative politics. "They want leadership, not experience. They're open to ideological appeals more than a résumé."



:) :D 8) :wink: :lol:

what do we have left now, about 98 days or so? Time flies doesn't it.


Good news indeed, but its too bad that the Republican party is set to nominate a big government loving liberal from Massachusetts to head up its presidential ticket.


Yep...and when that message is driven home over the next few months, I wonder how many tea party fans are either going to stay home, or vote for a third party. That, along with several other reasons, is why I have said from the beginning that Romney is not electable. He is not conservative enough for his party. I already know a few Republicans who are committed to voting third party...so I know the sentiment is out there a bit more then in the past.

Republicans love the Tea Party idea...but they do not see is that idea is independent enough to split and weaken the party, or nominate crazy people who have no chance of winning (Christine "the witch" O'Donnell, for example).

That puts the Republicans in a bad spot. They have to cater to the tea party a bit because if they broke off into a third party, it would split the conservative vote and neither would win. If they cater to them too much, the Republicans look far too radical and they still can't win. If they go moderate, it turns voters off. So, they are in a bad spot right now.
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:50 am

Monker wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Well Monker, you can come up with all the excuses you want. The bottom line is the speech has been given and the message has been sent. What happens in November comes next.


I'm not making 'excuses', just giving you the facts you don't want to hear.

The election does NOT come next. What comes 'next' is Romney's VP choice. Then there are two conventions. Then there are debates, and VP debates.

There is a LOT of politics before the elections...In fact, I don't think the contest really gets into full swing until after the conventions. So, all either candidate has to do at this point is keep it pretty much even...and that is exactly where we are.


It comes next for me as the only thing I'm looking forward to is casting my vote.
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Postby Monker » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:34 am

Fact Finder wrote:
Monker wrote:
Gin and Tonic Sky wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Good morning sunshine....


WASHINGTON - Ted Cruz's stunning come-from-behind victory over David Dewhurst in Tuesday's Republican Senate runoff sends an unmistakable message to the political establishment in Washington that the next U.S. Senate, like the Republican-controlled House, is going to be more conservative and less willing to compromise with President Barack Obama or even a possible President Mitt Romney.

"This is going to reverberate around the Capitol in Washington and around the country," said Republican strategist Matt Mackowiak. "If you can do this in Texas, you can do it anywhere. This is a hell of a wake-up call for the establishment."

The decisive win by Cruz, a first-time office-seeker, over one of the Texas' most powerful officeholders underscores the growing clout of tea party conservatives in Republican nominating contests and the struggles that both moderate and conservative establishment figures are facing in the current political climate of grass-roots fury at the status quo.

"People perceive a crisis," said Clemson University political scientist David James Woodard, a specialist in conservative politics. "They want leadership, not experience. They're open to ideological appeals more than a résumé."



:) :D 8) :wink: :lol:

what do we have left now, about 98 days or so? Time flies doesn't it.


Good news indeed, but its too bad that the Republican party is set to nominate a big government loving liberal from Massachusetts to head up its presidential ticket.


Yep...and when that message is driven home over the next few months, I wonder how many tea party fans are either going to stay home, or vote for a third party. That, along with several other reasons, is why I have said from the beginning that Romney is not electable. He is not conservative enough for his party. I already know a few Republicans who are committed to voting third party...so I know the sentiment is out there a bit more then in the past.

Republicans love the Tea Party idea...but they do not see is that idea is independent enough to split and weaken the party, or nominate crazy people who have no chance of winning (Christine "the witch" O'Donnell, for example).

That puts the Republicans in a bad spot. They have to cater to the tea party a bit because if they broke off into a third party, it would split the conservative vote and neither would win. If they cater to them too much, the Republicans look far too radical and they still can't win. If they go moderate, it turns voters off. So, they are in a bad spot right now.



I can guarantee you that most Pubbies are waiting to crawl over broken glass to vote for Mitt. ABO is the mantra. Anybody but Obama. Mitt is not exactly what we wanted but he's what we got, and even the far right understands that ABO is the only way to go at this juncture. A more conservative Senate and continued control of the House will suffice for now.


I know that, too. Congrats, you nominated your version of John Kerry.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:47 am

Fact Finder wrote:

I can guarantee you that most Pubbies are waiting to crawl over broken glass to vote for Mitt. ABO is the mantra. Anybody but Obama. Mitt is not exactly what we wanted but he's what we got, and even the far right understands that ABO is the only way to go at this juncture. A more conservative Senate and continued control of the House will suffice for now.



A lot if people who were Republicans ( I used to be a die hard one) aren't going to fall for the lesser of the two evils argument anymore.
If the Republican Party stands up for liberty in all its forms - economic liberty/real free market economics , the 2nd amendment AND THE 4TH AMENDMENT (that means no more NDAA or Patriot Act) - and not just paying lipservice to some of them, I'd come back. The few republicans that are doing this - e.g Rand Paul, Jim Demint, Justin Amash - are worthy of enthusiastic support but they are still too few and far between.

I know the candidate Gary Johnson I'm supporting has no chance of winning - but he's a successful governor, businessman, and has always consistently stood up for what I believe consistently. I really think he could get alot of folks who want to put principles first.
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:19 am

Fact Finder wrote:
I'm with ya bro, however there is this thing called Primaries and our side picked Romney this time. Not what we wanted but as I said, BO has got to go. The down ballot tickets are where real conservatives can be elected and make a difference. These things take time. 2010 was a watershed moment for conservative politicians and then we had the Wisconsin thing, which we won, and now we have two choices, Mitt or Barry. As much as I liked what I heard from Johnson he ain't winning.



problem is if/when Romney gets elected, all the good folks like Cruz will be under enormous pressure to compromise and pilloried when they don't. Wont do the cause a single shred of good.

I grant that I am voting in a state absolutely sure to go blue (Minnesota) regardless so I have the luxury of voting on principle, but even if I was voting in a swing state I still would vote for the Libertarian presidential candidate. Like the Who Song goes, "Wont get fooled again" - No Romney for me!
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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:58 am

Obama bumper stickers.....what a joke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ
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Postby Gin and Tonic Sky » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:59 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Obama bumper stickers.....what a joke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ


lol :D
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:31 am

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Obama bumper stickers.....what a joke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:54 am

Of course FF won't copy and paste things like this.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/08/0 ... p_featured
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:00 pm

Here Sushi :

========================
UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION
========================

You saved $1,600 from the Making Work Pay Credit and will save $2,200 from the payroll tax cut by the end of 2012
President Obama’s American Opportunity Tax Credit provides up to $10,000 for four years of college expenses
President Obama expanded the Child Tax Credit and the Earned Income Tax Credit for nearly 16 million working families with 29 million children
President Obama signed 18 tax cuts for small businesses into law, as well as tax cuts for first-time homebuyers, energy-efficient cars, college expenses, and more for middle-class families


===========
THE OBAMA PLAN
===========

President Obama’s plan to extend tax cuts for the middle class would prevent you from facing a $2,668 tax increase next year. The President would:

Extend middle-class tax cuts to prevent a tax increase on 98% of American families who earn less than $250,000 a year, saving a typical middle-class family of four $2,200 a year
End tax cuts that benefit only high-income taxpayers and ask the wealthy to pay their fair share, in order to reduce the deficit and make investments to strengthen the middle class
Make the American Opportunity Tax Credit permanent, preventing a tax increase on more than 9 million families paying for college
Additional tax cuts for small businesses to create new jobs and grow


=================
WHAT ROMNEY WOULD DO
=================

Make the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy permanent, and add another tax cut skewed towards the wealthy on top of it
Either explode the deficit by $5 trillion or raise taxes on the middle class by reducing tax deductions and exemptions that middle class families depend on
End President Obama’s tax cuts for college and for working families with kids
Take us back to the same top-down economics that failed the middle class and led us into the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression
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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:13 pm

How Romney’s plan to cut taxes for the wealthy impacts middle-class families
August 1, 2012



Mitt Romney has proposed a $5 trillion tax plan that provides large tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans. At times, he has claimed that he will pay for his plan by closing tax deductions and other tax benefits, but refuses to say which ones. Today, an independent analysis showed that such a plan would require raising taxes by an average of more than $2,000 a year on middle-class families with children to pay for his massive tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. As a result, it would raise taxes on millions of middle-class families so he can cut taxes for the most fortunate households. ...

According to Bill Gale, Adam Looney, and Samuel Brown of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a project of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, “any revenue neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed would provide large tax cuts to high-income households, and increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower-income taxpayers.” They conclude that:

Even after eliminating all tax preferences (except those for savings and investment) for high-income families, Romney’s plan would still cut taxes for households earning more than $200,000 by $86 billion a year. Therefore, Romney would have to raise taxes on the middle class by the same amount to pay for his plan, cutting middle-class tax preferences by more than half (58 percent).
The Romney plan would raise taxes by $2,041 a year for the average middle-class family with children and an income below $200,000 a year. Among all taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year—including those without children—it would raise taxes by an average of $539 a year.
The Romney plan would cut taxes for the highest-income households, providing a $87,000 tax cut for those earning more than $1 million a year and a $247,000 tax cut for those in the top 0.1% of income earners, or those earning more than about $3 million a year.

Here’s a look at exactly how Romney’s plan would affect middle-class families:

$2,500 tax increase for a married couple with two children and an income of $100,000.
They live in Virginia and pay $6,500 in state income and property taxes, pay $1,700 a month on their mortgage, donate $1,000 a year to charity, and receive health benefits from work worth $15,000 a year. Even though this family would receive a sizable tax cut from the Romney plan’s rate reductions, it would be dwarfed by the cuts to their Child Tax Credit and deductions for mortgage interest, state and local taxes, and charitable giving, and the taxes they would have to pay on their employer-provided health insurance.

$2,200 tax increase for a single mother with one child earning $20,000 a year.
She would not benefit at all from reduced tax rates, and would see her Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit cut by more than half.

$500 tax increase for a married couple with no children and an income of $45,000.
They rent their home and claim the standard deduction rather than itemizing. They are covered by an employer health plan worth $15,000. Even though they claim no other tax benefits, the new taxes they would have to pay on a portion of the value of their health insurance would still be larger than what they would receive from the Romney plan’s rate cuts.

$259,000 tax cut for a couple earning $10 million a year.
A married couple with income of $10 million that claims $1.5 million of itemized deductions would get a net tax cut of $259,000.

===================================

In contrast, President Obama believes in supporting and strengthening the economic security of middle-class families :

President Obama has proposed a responsible plan that will prevent any family earning less than $250,000 a year from facing a tax increase, while reducing the deficit by more than $4 trillion over the next decade. It includes $2.50 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue increases. And it asks the highest earners to pay their fair share to prevent devastating cuts in investments in the middle class, like education, energy, Social Security, and Medicare. President Obama has already cut taxes for every working family, enacting tax cuts worth $3,600 to a typical family over his first term, and he will continue to protect middle-class families from higher taxes.
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Postby slucero » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:04 pm

What the election will be about... and a picture that is worth a thousand words...


The data source is the Employment table from the Bureau of Labor Statistics "A" Tables. This is not the one that the White House prefers to use. They prefer using the BLS B Tables because they give numbers that are kinder to the administration. But the B Tables under-count employment (they only count payrolls) and everyone knows this.

January-January is counted (or whenever the president left office) for each president, not because it was particularly fair but to show match how Obama has assigned himself and Romney jobs responsibility. By following his lead it shows that if we take him at his word, he doesn’t stand up to his own standard.

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby Behshad » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:24 pm

Fact Finder wrote:
Behshad wrote:How Romney’s plan to cut taxes for the wealthy impacts middle-class families
August 1, 2012



Mitt Romney has proposed a $5 trillion tax plan that provides large tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans. At times, he has claimed that he will pay for his plan by closing tax deductions and other tax benefits, but refuses to say which ones. Today, an independent analysis showed that such a plan would require raising taxes by an average of more than $2,000 a year on middle-class families with children to pay for his massive tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. As a result, it would raise taxes on millions of middle-class families so he can cut taxes for the most fortunate households. ...

According to Bill Gale, Adam Looney, and Samuel Brown of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, a project of the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, “any revenue neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed would provide large tax cuts to high-income households, and increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower-income taxpayers.” They conclude that:

Even after eliminating all tax preferences (except those for savings and investment) for high-income families, Romney’s plan would still cut taxes for households earning more than $200,000 by $86 billion a year. Therefore, Romney would have to raise taxes on the middle class by the same amount to pay for his plan, cutting middle-class tax preferences by more than half (58 percent).
The Romney plan would raise taxes by $2,041 a year for the average middle-class family with children and an income below $200,000 a year. Among all taxpayers earning less than $200,000 a year—including those without children—it would raise taxes by an average of $539 a year.
The Romney plan would cut taxes for the highest-income households, providing a $87,000 tax cut for those earning more than $1 million a year and a $247,000 tax cut for those in the top 0.1% of income earners, or those earning more than about $3 million a year.

Here’s a look at exactly how Romney’s plan would affect middle-class families:

$2,500 tax increase for a married couple with two children and an income of $100,000.
They live in Virginia and pay $6,500 in state income and property taxes, pay $1,700 a month on their mortgage, donate $1,000 a year to charity, and receive health benefits from work worth $15,000 a year. Even though this family would receive a sizable tax cut from the Romney plan’s rate reductions, it would be dwarfed by the cuts to their Child Tax Credit and deductions for mortgage interest, state and local taxes, and charitable giving, and the taxes they would have to pay on their employer-provided health insurance.

$2,200 tax increase for a single mother with one child earning $20,000 a year.
She would not benefit at all from reduced tax rates, and would see her Child Tax Credit and Earned Income Tax Credit cut by more than half.

$500 tax increase for a married couple with no children and an income of $45,000.
They rent their home and claim the standard deduction rather than itemizing. They are covered by an employer health plan worth $15,000. Even though they claim no other tax benefits, the new taxes they would have to pay on a portion of the value of their health insurance would still be larger than what they would receive from the Romney plan’s rate cuts.

$259,000 tax cut for a couple earning $10 million a year.
A married couple with income of $10 million that claims $1.5 million of itemized deductions would get a net tax cut of $259,000.

===================================

In contrast, President Obama believes in supporting and strengthening the economic security of middle-class families :

President Obama has proposed a responsible plan that will prevent any family earning less than $250,000 a year from facing a tax increase, while reducing the deficit by more than $4 trillion over the next decade. It includes $2.50 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue increases. And it asks the highest earners to pay their fair share to prevent devastating cuts in investments in the middle class, like education, energy, Social Security, and Medicare. President Obama has already cut taxes for every working family, enacting tax cuts worth $3,600 to a typical family over his first term, and he will continue to protect middle-class families from higher taxes.



He a Mormon too.....BOO!


:lol:

That's the best you could come with ? At least I give you credit for using your own words this time ! ;)
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Postby slucero » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:25 am

163,000 my ass.... of the 163,000 jobs "added", 429,000 was based on purely statistical fudging.


The number was based on a non seasonally adjusted July number of 132,868. This was a 1.248 million drop from the June print. So how did the smoothing work out to make a real plunge into an "adjusted" rise? Simple: the BLS "added" 377K jobs for seasonal purposes.

This was the largest seasonal addition in the past decade for a July NFP print in the past decade, possibly ever
, as the first chart below shows.

Image


But wait, there's more: the Birth Death adjustment, which adds to the NSA Print to get to the final number, was +52k. How does this compare to July 2011?

It is about 1000% higher: the last B/D adjustment was a tiny +5K! In other words, of the 163,000 jobs "added", 429,000 was based on purely statistical fudging.


Image



And then there's full-time vs part-time employment...

We know from above that the nearly 3 times the headline print was due to seasonal and Birth/Death adjustments and is thus nothing but noise.

As can be seen below (source: Table A9 from the BLS Household Survey), in July:

Part-time jobs added: 31,000 (bringing the total to 27,925, just shy of the all time record of 28,038)
Full-time jobs add: 114,345 (which is down 228,000 to 114,345, lower than the February full-time jobs print of 114,408.)

Once again, more and more Americans are relinquishing any and all benefits associated with Full Time Jobs benefits, and instead are agreeing on a job. Any job. Even if it means working just 1 hour a week. For the BLS it doesn't matter - 1 hour of work a week still qualifies you as a Part-Time worker.

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Something esle to ponder..

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the recession ended in June 2009. Of the total 3.384 million private sector jobs created since then, 1.44 million have been in heavily government subsidized - health care services, private educational services and social assistance agencies.

That means that the non-subsidized private sector generated 2.24 million jobs — considerably less than the more than four million positions President Obama says.
Last edited by slucero on Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby hoagiepete » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:32 am

Behshad wrote:How Romney’s plan to cut taxes for the wealthy impacts middle-class families
August 1, 2012



===================================

In contrast, President Obama believes in supporting and strengthening the economic security of middle-class families :

President Obama has proposed a responsible plan that will prevent any family earning less than $250,000 a year from facing a tax increase, while reducing the deficit by more than $4 trillion over the next decade. It includes $2.50 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue increases. And it asks the highest earners to pay their fair share to prevent devastating cuts in investments in the middle class, like education, energy, Social Security, and Medicare. President Obama has already cut taxes for every working family, enacting tax cuts worth $3,600 to a typical family over his first term, and he will continue to protect middle-class families from higher taxes.


After 3+ years, don't you think its time to quit planning and doing? This "fair share" shit is starting to piss me off. Who decides what the fuck is "fair" anyway? What YOU think is fair is probably going to be different that what I think is fair. Who decides when enough is enough.

Libs seem to be just a bunch of kids that never grew up. "That's not fair!" "How come I don't get that?" "How come HE gets to do that and I don't?" "I don't want to get up (and work my ass off), but I want my allowance anyway"

Or a bunch of schoolyard bullies. "Look at that neat shit they have, let's just take it from them."

You give them something and they continually want more. Do something nice once and then you become the bad guy when you don't do it again or more. They complain every time they "cut" something, but forget, that "something" hasn't been provided forever.

Having said that, the far right pisses me off too.

I'm tired of being pissed. Have a good day.
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Postby slucero » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:34 pm

And now, lets set the Wayback Machine to February 2009:

"We can not and will not sustain deficits like these without end. Contrary to the prevailing wisdom in Washington these past few years, we can not simply spend as we please and defer the consequences to the next budget, the next administration or the next generation. We are paying the price for these deficits right now. In 2008 alone we paid $250 billion in interest on our debt, that is more than three times what we spent on education that year, more than seven times what we spent on VA healthcare. So if we confront this crisis without also confronting the deficits that helped cause it, we risk sinking into another crisis down the road as our interest payments rise, our obligations come due, confidence in our economy erodes and our children and grandchildren are unable to pursue their dreams because they are saddled with our debts. That's why today I am pledging to cut the deficit we inherited by half by the end of my first term in office. This will not be easy - it will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we have long neglected but i refuse to leave our children with a debt they can not repay. And that means taking responsibility right now in this administration, for getting our spending under control."

~President Obama

The whole video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaQUU2ZL6D8


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He didn't build that deficit. Someone else made that happen.... :lol:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby slucero » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:13 am

Clint Eastwood endorses Romney....

Eastwood tells The Associated Press that he's backing Romney because, in Eastwood's words, "I think the country needs a boost."


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Postby The Sushi Hunter » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:22 am

Only after the election in November will I take any of this seriously, because right now all these statistics could very well be just alot of pot smoke being blown up everyones ass.

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Postby slucero » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:00 am

more good reading...

Elliott Management: We Make This Recommendation To Our Friends: If You Own US Debt Sell It Now

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/elliott-m ... ell-it-now

Every now and then we prefer to sit back and let some of the smartest money speak, especially when said smart money agrees with us. In this case, we hand the podium over to none other than Paul Singer's Elliott Management, which after starting with $1.3 million in 1977 was at $19.8 billion most recently. No expert networks, no high frequency trading, no "information arbitrage", no crony capitalism and pseudo monopolies of scale, and most certainly no bailouts: Singer did it all the old fashioned way: by picking undervalued assets and watching them appreciate. The timing is opportune because while Elliott has much to say about virtually everything in their latest 20 pages Q2 letter, it is the billionaire's sentiment vis-a-vis US Treasury debt that may be most critical, and may be the catalyst that resulted in today's abysmal 10 Year bond auction. To wit:

"long-term government debt of the U.S., U.K., Europe and Japan probably will be the worst-performing asset class over the next ten to twenty years. We make this recommendation to our friends: if you own such debt, sell it now. You’ve had a great ride, don’t press your luck. From here it is basically all risk, with very little reward."

There is little that can be misinterpreted in the bolded statement. And while many have taken the other side of the Fed over the past 3 years, few have dared to stand against Paul Singer because if there is one person whose opinion matters above most, certainly above that of the Chairsatan, it is his.


More deep thoughts from Elliott:


On QE and the nanny state:
Printing money and overstaffing government offices may look like growth for a period of time, but it is actually the road to poverty, corruption and, ultimately, political upheaval.

On regulation:
Opaque, overleveraged and vulnerable Financial Institutions which need to be propped up by the implicit or explicit guarantee of sovereigns does not make for a solid financial plumbing system for the global economy...this is a formula for power entrenchment, favoritism and shady deals behind closed doors.

On Dodd-Frank:
Not only will it fail to make the system safer, but we believe it will likely be an actual accelerant of the next financial crisis. Dodd-Frank was supposed to “fix” the American financial system and end “too big to fail.” Unfortunately, the law, born in a political steamroller, does the exact opposite: it will be the accelerant of the next crisis. The 2008 crisis was episodic and took a while to get rolling. The next one could well be a black hole, and Dodd-Frank will bear responsibility for that.

On why Americans are angry:
The government, lacking deep understanding of these firms, wants to pretend that their gigantic efforts (most notably Dodd-Frank) actually fixed the situation. But we believe that citizens are angry at what their guts tell them (correctly, basically) about the special treatment and riskiness of Financial Institutions.

On public data reporting:
Decades ago, the balance sheets of the Financial Institutions contained most of the information you needed to know to understand their risks. Today the picture is profoundly different, predominantly due to the growth of leverage through derivatives....As a result, there is no major Financial Institution today whose financial statements provide a meaningful clue about the risks of the firm’s entire panoply of assets and liabilities including derivatives, nor how the firm’s performance, or even survival, will be affected by market movements in the future.

On leverage:
Including derivatives, nearly all the world’s largest Financial Institutions are levered 50-100 times (not 10-20 as reflected on their balance sheets), so the exact composition of their derivatives books is essential to an understanding of their risks and stability....no hedge fund is remotely as leveraged as the Financial Institutions, and no hedge fund actually had to be rescued during the crisis.

On European banks:
European institutions are in worse shape than before. Not only is their leverage (including derivatives) still at pre-crash levels, but they are choking on vast holdings of questionable sovereign debt which regulators more or less forced on them with lenient risk-weightings. These banks are stuffed with paper that private investors would not buy, as part of the “three-card Monte” shuffle that characterizes the European banking/sovereign system today.

On "peak fragility" in the bond and stock market:
People are still buying bonds despite pitifully low yields because, well, they continue to go up in price, albeit in a self-reinforcing process goosed by central bank and momentum buying. When these forces exhaust themselves, the reversal could and should be swift and large. A decade ago, stocks were overpriced, but institutions who owned them were generally happy... Stocks looked predictable and safe at the very moment that they were maximally unsafe. That is where long-term bonds of these four currency blocs (euro, U.S., U.K. and Japan) now stand.

On "safety":
“Safe haven” could be the two most expensive and painful words for investors in the financial lexicon this year.

On market sentiment:
Global financial markets currently feel like they are in a period of calm before a storm, possibly centered on the European situation. The problem is that no one can foresee when the storm will make landfall, or how severe it will be.

On why Europe is making one wrong decision after another:
Raising taxes to confiscatory levels (75% top rates are absurd and self-defeating), lowering already-too-low retirement ages, making it hard or impossible to fire people (which obviously discourages hiring them in the first place), increasing the scope of regulation and making it more complicated and subject to greater discretion by hostile, inadequately informed regulators, and making threatening noises at every turn about “the rich”, are the precise opposite of the actions and statements that policymakers should make to attract businesses and encourage expansions of existing businesses.
Nobody is forced to locate a business in Europe, and in fact capital flight today from several countries is already large and relentless.

On the future of Europe:
Since all of the euro bloc surprises in the last couple of years have been negative, and since the answer to every question about the ultimate cost of preserving the euro is “more than you thought yesterday,” the metaphor of a slow-motion train wreck seems quite appropriate.
The overall situation is not going sideways or up. It is drifting down.

On Socialists - in this case in France, but applicable everywhere:
The Socialists are unlikely to be terribly successful at preventing the destruction of jobs, but they may be all too effective, however unintentionally, at stifling job creation.

On tax policy:
Dramatic increases in taxes and regulation, together with a repeatedly punitive tone, are understandably extrapolated by capitalists and investors as indicators of hostility toward business and profits. The societal loss from the business decisions occasioned by such signals is self-reinforcing. Businesspeople sitting on their hands leads to lower growth and more angry rhetoric and hostile actions by government.

On the lack of job creation:
Since the top 20% of taxpayers (which includes a great number of people making less than billions and even millions) pay the overwhelming bulk of taxes, this promise to raise taxes has not exactly generated enthusiasm or jobs.

On US (small) business uncertainty:
Under ACA and the scheduled rise in overall federal income tax rates, one of the largest aggregate tax increases in American history is scheduled for five months from now. This is occurring at the same time that several strapped large states are also raising their top tax brackets.

On shifts in paradigms:
Businessmen are inherently optimistic, typically always looking for reasons to do business, expand and innovate. Historical experience shows that when established perceptions are wrong, it can take a long time for contradictory data points to accumulate before such perceptions start to adjust and to cause alterations of behavior. However, at a certain moment, shifts in perceptions and trends could be abrupt, especially given modern tools of instant communication.

Today the hostility of the American and European governments to private enterprise, wealth and profits is used by those governments as vote-buying tactics. The impact on growth and jobs is already visible, and capital flight (already seemingly underway in France) may accelerate unless the policies, and tone, change.

On the US welfare state:
If [Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and government pensions] are not reformed, such entitlements simply cannot be paid as promised, regardless of the levels of future growth or taxes on “the rich” or anyone else. The numbers are just too big, the result of a form of corruption: politicians made big promises in exchange for votes, not worrying about whether the promises could be fulfilled.

On the US "recovery"
Three and a half years after the bust, the massive spending, guarantees and money printing have left America with 8.2% unemployment (which vastly understates the actual level, since millions of people have simply left the workforce, while others have migrated from receiving unemployment benefits to getting long-term disability payments), sluggish growth, $5 trillion in additional federal debt, and $3 trillion of freshly-printed dollars on the Fed’s balance sheet. This is not a success. This is a national tragedy, in a society in which the world’s greatest engine of prosperity has historically been fueled by innovation, optimism, entrepreneurship, flexibility and opportunity.

On Congress handing over the decisionmaking process to the Fed:
We believe that relying on monetary authorities to pick up the considerable slack in growth by printing money by the boatload is completely wrongheaded. It distorts both the price of money and the risks of holding long-term claims denominated in paper money, builds a future risk of large inflation, supports economic activity only in an oblique and unfair way, and creates something that is going to be very hard to unwind.

On the consequences of the printing money "alchemy":
Somehow many policymakers and citizens have come to believe that money printing is some kind of magical process, that good things can be produced literally out of thin air, and that if leaders don’t create growth from obviously-needed changes in wrongheaded policies, then poof!... printing more money will solve it. This is pathetic.

The range of inevitable costs to societies practicing such alchemy is somewhere between “a lot” and “utterly catastrophic.” The damage is already becoming evident, particularly in the distortion between the rise in financial asset prices and the sluggishness of the real economy. When consumer prices soar across the board or there are other painful consequences, we wonder what excuses the blameworthy policymakers will make to deny their responsibility.


Finally, on what nobody wants to discuss, but could very easily be the final outcome:

A loss of confidence in paper money could result in searing and startling inflation, evaporating life savings and turning every stolid worker into a frantic speculator. If that were to occur, nobody could possibly say in hindsight that the conditions for such a sorry state of affairs were not in place.

The people who are telling us now that inflation is impossible because there is slack in the global economy, and that central banks can print trillions of dollars more without a significant risk of inflation, are the same folks who not only failed to predict the financial crisis, they did not even have a clue that a crisis of such kind was possible.

Indeed the "smartest money" is just that because it calls it how it is.



Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Postby Monker » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:26 am

Fact Finder wrote:
On the US welfare state:
If [Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and government pensions] are not reformed, such entitlements simply cannot be paid as promised, regardless of the levels of future growth or taxes on “the rich” or anyone else. The numbers are just too big, the result of a form of corruption: politicians made big promises in exchange for votes, not worrying about whether the promises could be fulfilled.



The answer to all of lifes riddles are right here. Anyone with a brain can see it.


Which is a good portion of why BOTH a tax increase and reform need to happen. You will never have one without the other.

Also, public perception of these need to be changed. These should not be considered "entitlements". The current working generation pays for the current retirees. What you pay in FICA tax is not stored away in some retirement account until you retire. It is given to your parents and grandparents for retirement. IMO, these programs should be called the "senior welfare programs"...Maybe then those who don't need it will not feel the such a desire to take it...and those who are currently working will not have the expectation of receiving that money back.
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Postby Monker » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:23 am

Fact Finder wrote:Tax increases on the rich will fund this Govt for about 25 minutes. It's the goddamned spending.. :wink:


That is a simpletons view of things. It's not just the government spending.

The fact is that taxes are historically long. There is no more wiggle room for a tax cut to simulate the economy....which doesn't really help much anyway.

The bigger fact is that consumer spending is so low...and that is what really fuels the economy. Not rich people investing for the capital gains tax break, or even worse - putting their money overseas.

And, finally, as the economy picks up, more people at work, more income taxes to lower the deficit.

But, again, you will never have anything close to a balanced budget until you raise taxes for the rich, cut military spending, and cut social programs. Take any of those away, and you will still have a deficit....

It's all a moot point anyway - as long as the economy is sluggish, the deficit will be there...and if you make the cuts and tax increases to eliminate the deficit, the economy will collapse yet again.

And, again, I find it ironic how acceptable deficits were under Reagan - and how wrong Democrats were to whine about them....and now the deficit will cause the end of the world, according to Republicans. The entire argument depends on who is in office.

W. had a real opportunity to fix such problems, but he made it worse instead.

And, BTW, there was a post way up there that excused Bush's economy (compared to Clinton's) because of: Katrina, 9/11, and wars. Natural disasters happen under EVERY president. Seems Obama has had to deal with the worst oil spill ever, and we are now in the worst heat wave/drought in decades. The fact is W. took NO LEADERSHIP ROLE whatsoever with Katrina...instead he tried to delegate and allowed the problems to escalate out of control. 9/11 was a tragedy - absolutely. But, instead of call to action, it became an excuse to go to the mall to buy duct tape to keep the poison gas out of your house. It was an opportunity lost to bring us together as a country. Iraq was a war that should have never happened and to use it as an excuse that Bash had to deal with is pathetic. Afghanistan was really a forgotten war, for the most part, until Iraq came to an end under Obama, and Bin Ladin was put to death. And, of course you ignore how well Obama handled Lybia - a true coalition and an example of how Iraq SHOULD have been handled.

The bottom line is Bush shot his time in office in the face over and over again. He took the set up that Clinton gave him and let it wither away to the point of a worldwide financial collapse. I mean, seriously, he's the worst President this country has ever seen...and it was his own actions/inactions that put it there.
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Postby Behshad » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:38 pm

Monker wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:Tax increases on the rich will fund this Govt for about 25 minutes. It's the goddamned spending.. :wink:


That is a simpletons view of things. It's not just the government spending.

The fact is that taxes are historically long. There is no more wiggle room for a tax cut to simulate the economy....which doesn't really help much anyway.

The bigger fact is that consumer spending is so low...and that is what really fuels the economy. Not rich people investing for the capital gains tax break, or even worse - putting their money overseas.

And, finally, as the economy picks up, more people at work, more income taxes to lower the deficit.

But, again, you will never have anything close to a balanced budget until you raise taxes for the rich, cut military spending, and cut social programs. Take any of those away, and you will still have a deficit....

It's all a moot point anyway - as long as the economy is sluggish, the deficit will be there...and if you make the cuts and tax increases to eliminate the deficit, the economy will collapse yet again.

And, again, I find it ironic how acceptable deficits were under Reagan - and how wrong Democrats were to whine about them....and now the deficit will cause the end of the world, according to Republicans. The entire argument depends on who is in office.

W. had a real opportunity to fix such problems, but he made it worse instead.

And, BTW, there was a post way up there that excused Bush's economy (compared to Clinton's) because of: Katrina, 9/11, and wars. Natural disasters happen under EVERY president. Seems Obama has had to deal with the worst oil spill ever, and we are now in the worst heat wave/drought in decades. The fact is W. took NO LEADERSHIP ROLE whatsoever with Katrina...instead he tried to delegate and allowed the problems to escalate out of control. 9/11 was a tragedy - absolutely. But, instead of call to action, it became an excuse to go to the mall to buy duct tape to keep the poison gas out of your house. It was an opportunity lost to bring us together as a country. Iraq was a war that should have never happened and to use it as an excuse that Bash had to deal with is pathetic. Afghanistan was really a forgotten war, for the most part, until Iraq came to an end under Obama, and Bin Ladin was put to death. And, of course you ignore how well Obama handled Lybia - a true coalition and an example of how Iraq SHOULD have been handled.

The bottom line is Bush shot his time in office in the face over and over again. He took the set up that Clinton gave him and let it wither away to the point of a worldwide financial collapse. I mean, seriously, he's the worst President this country has ever seen...and it was his own actions/inactions that put it there.




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