President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Seven Wishes2]

I'm still waiting for one of the Dittoheads to attempt to justify Romney not releasing his tax records. Not one candidate running for President post-WW II has NOT released that information.

This should be great. I've got my popcorn. Please, let the blithering begin!

[The Sushi Hunter]

I'm still waiting for one of the Dittoheads to attempt to justify Romney not releasing his tax records. Not one candidate running for President post-WW II has NOT released that information.

This should be great. I've got my popcorn. Please, let the blithering begin!

Microwaved cheap shit or the old fashioned stuff done over the stove?

[conversationpc]

I'm still waiting for one of the Dittoheads to attempt to justify Romney not releasing his tax records. Not one candidate running for President post-WW II has NOT released that information.

This should be great. I've got my popcorn. Please, let the blithering begin!

He should and Obama should also release his college records.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

I'm still waiting for one of the Dittoheads to attempt to justify Romney not releasing his tax records. Not one candidate running for President post-WW II has NOT released that information.

This should be great. I've got my popcorn. Please, let the blithering begin!

Microwaved cheap shit or the old fashioned stuff done over the stove?

And Rommney is about as exciting as week old stale pop-corn....who friggin cares

[Rick]

Why did the auto industry needed a bail out again?

Because both GM and Chrysler were out of money and out of ideas and pretty damn close to shut their doors permanently.

Yeah, paying Union workers $70 an hour will do that to a company, not to mention the lifetime of benfits promised.

That's what they tell you. American tells people the same shit. I make just over $21.00, and I've been there 29 years. 29 years ago we topped out at almost $17. So we've gained $4.00 an hour in 29 years. Really breaking the bank. But they'll report in the news paper that we make over $70,000 a year. It's nothing but a lie. My health insurance costs me over $200 a month. I"ll guarantee you that I've paid into health insurance more than I've used. Travel benefits? I'll give you that one, but do you know when the last time I flew was? I went to see my daughter in Norfolk a year ago and before that, I went to Las Vegas to hang out with a bunch of nutbags from here to see the Journey concert in 2008 I think it was. They have the planes so full that you can't even fly on them. And they're bankrupt.

The lifetime benefits promised? Ours just got shitcanned with their bankruptcy filing. Now my pension is frozen and I have NO retirement health insurance. My pension, which would have been enough to retire on, will now be $1400 a month.

GM may have someone making $70 an hour, but I'll bet you that was a person with licenses and technical skills above that of the average assembly line worker, whom I know makes $30 an hour. That's a good amount, but it's what's required in this day and age, just to live. You can't buy a house, gas, pay the bills and send your kids to college on less. You simply cant. You right wingers are destroying the middle class with your pro big business, anti union rhetoric, and are too blind to see it. Why are the rich getting richer and everyone else getting poorer? They're taking the money, not the unions. Unions have lost so much ground in the last 20 years it's pathetic. They take the money in the form of shipping jobs overseas, crushing union contracts and paying people a wage that isn't even livable. But you'll buy whatever line they're selling you. GM execs flew in private jets to ask the government for bailout money and they don't even see how that's wrong. You think they have a worry about whether they're going to be able to pay all of their bills on time, or whether they're going to have to hold their kid out of college for a semester because they can't afford it? They're clueless to any of that.

When American emerges from bankruptcy, upper management is poised to take between 300 and 600 million in bonuses. How the fuck do you run a company into bankruptcy and then take bonuses? Bonuses like that? Corporate greed is so out of control that it's ridiculous, and everyone still puts industrialized America's problems on labor unions. UFB.

[conversationpc]

When American emerges from bankruptcy, upper management is poised to take between 300 and 600 million in bonuses. How the fuck do you run a company into bankruptcy and then take bonuses? Bonuses like that? Corporate greed is so out of control that it's ridiculous, and everyone still puts industrialized America's problems on labor unions. UFB.

There are lots of ordinary, everyday folks who are greedy as well. It isn't just the rich. However, I will agree with you on the scumbags that take huge bonuses, or any bonuses for that matter, when their company is struggling and they're raising healthcare premiums and cutting other benefits and laying people off. That BS really torques my ass.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I'm still waiting for one of the Dittoheads to attempt to justify Romney not releasing his tax records. Not one candidate running for President post-WW II has NOT released that information.

This should be great. I've got my popcorn. Please, let the blithering begin!

He should and Obama should also release his college records.

Doh. Yeah, the tax thing will be the Dems version of the Republican's birther thing I can see it now. Now if the tax documents are presented, then what will they do?

[Rick]

When American emerges from bankruptcy, upper management is poised to take between 300 and 600 million in bonuses. How the fuck do you run a company into bankruptcy and then take bonuses? Bonuses like that? Corporate greed is so out of control that it's ridiculous, and everyone still puts industrialized America's problems on labor unions. UFB.

There are lots of ordinary, everyday folks who are greedy as well. It isn't just the rich. However, I will agree with you on the scumbags that take huge bonuses, or any bonuses for that matter, when their company is struggling and they're raising healthcare premiums and cutting other benefits and laying people off. That BS really torques my ass.

It'll happen soon. Just watch for it in the papers.

[conversationpc]

When American emerges from bankruptcy, upper management is poised to take between 300 and 600 million in bonuses. How the fuck do you run a company into bankruptcy and then take bonuses? Bonuses like that? Corporate greed is so out of control that it's ridiculous, and everyone still puts industrialized America's problems on labor unions. UFB.

There are lots of ordinary, everyday folks who are greedy as well. It isn't just the rich. However, I will agree with you on the scumbags that take huge bonuses, or any bonuses for that matter, when their company is struggling and they're raising healthcare premiums and cutting other benefits and laying people off. That BS really torques my ass.

It'll happen soon. Just watch for it in the papers.

I'll add to that the heads of the labor unions are greedy pigs also.

[Rick]

Base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the average reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour,

There you have it, on average, from GM Officials. You can't make cars for $73 an hour and expect to be able to sell them to people who make $10 or $15 an hour.

Massive job cuts at General Motors, America's largest carmaker — coupled with the bankruptcy of Delphi, America's biggest autoparts maker — have provoked predictable handwringing from liberal pundits who worry that America is "losing its manufacturing base." But the wrenching change now buffeting the auto industry defies the usual press formulas. Just listen to Steve Miller a turnaround specialist who is steering Delphi's restructuring process. He exploded the myth of America's "endangered" union manufacturing jobs at his October press conference announcing Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."

Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.
"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.
- November 29, 2005, Labor Pains, Detroit needs to play by market rules. By Henry Payne

Source(s):

The Indianapolis Star and the National Review

There were two signatures on that contract. The Unions and GM's. Anyone who would sign off on a contract that allows people to sit around, doing nothing, or is paying someone $28 an hour to cut the grass, is trying to run their company into the ground. Why would anyone do that? Union pressure? Give me a break. Unions have almost zero leverage anymore. And you can believe what they say all you want, but these guys are paying monthly copays for insurance, just like me, to the tune of $2500.00 a year. So, if I don't use my insurance for that year, how is that a benefit for me? How did I gain anything in my pay? I didn't. I just lost money. So you can't call that compensation if it was never realized. They might have a shift differential, but I don't. They might get holiday pay. I used to get 10, now I get 5. I've been cut 2 weeks of vacation a year also. In 2003 we took pay and benefit cuts of over 30% in my department. When we exit bankruptcy, I'll take another 17% cut. I'm not sure how it is over at GM, but I know the numbers the float out there are as bloated as their heads and bonuses are.

[slucero]

...kind of how you "thought" auto sales profits didn't include cars that sat on dealer lots eh?

Which they don't. You're misinformed. Theyre not accounted for the PROFIT until after they are REPORTED sold BY the dealer .

Misinformed by GM? It's in their own 2012 annual report dude.


profit = revenue - cost


From General Motors 2012 Annual Report. Page 21, bottom paragraph
http://www.gm.com/content/dam/gmcom/COM ... Report.pdf

Production and Vehicle Sales Volume

Management believes that production volume and vehicle sales data provide meaningful information regarding our automotive operating results. Production volumes manufactured by our assembly facilities are generally aligned with current period net sales and revenue, as we generally recognize revenue upon the release of the vehicle to the carrier responsible for transporting it to a dealer, which is shortly after the completion of production. Vehicle sales data, which includes retail and fleet sales, does not correlate directly to the revenue we recognize during the period. However, vehicle sales data is indicative of the underlying demand for our vehicles, and is the basis for our market share.

They state how they calculate revenue... so any "profit" number will, by DEFAULT, include ALL vehicles when they release them from production to the carrier responsible for transporting it to a dealer. That means ALL cars.. It doesn't matter whether they arrive at the dealer lot at all..

GM recognizes the revenue when the vehicles leave the factory...


I even color-coded it blue so you could find it easily... can't have you complaining about "mumbo-jumbo"....


you can't even admit you're WRONG when GM says you are...

[Rick]

Base wages average about $28 an hour. GM officials say the average reaches $39.68 an hour, including base pay, cost-of-living adjustments, night-shift premiums, overtime, holiday and vacation pay. Health-care, pension and other benefits average another $33.58 an hour,

There you have it, on average, from GM Officials. You can't make cars for $73 an hour and expect to be able to sell them to people who make $10 or $15 an hour.

Massive job cuts at General Motors, America's largest carmaker — coupled with the bankruptcy of Delphi, America's biggest autoparts maker — have provoked predictable handwringing from liberal pundits who worry that America is "losing its manufacturing base." But the wrenching change now buffeting the auto industry defies the usual press formulas. Just listen to Steve Miller a turnaround specialist who is steering Delphi's restructuring process. He exploded the myth of America's "endangered" union manufacturing jobs at his October press conference announcing Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."

Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.
"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.
- November 29, 2005, Labor Pains, Detroit needs to play by market rules. By Henry Payne

Source(s):

The Indianapolis Star and the National Review

There were two signatures on that contract. The Unions and GM's. Anyone who would sign off on a contract that allows people to sit around, doing nothing, or is paying someone $28 an hour to cut the grass, is trying to run their company into the ground. Why would anyone do that? Union pressure? Give me a break. Unions have almost zero leverage anymore. And you can believe what they say all you want, but these guys are paying monthly copays for insurance, just like me, to the tune of $2500.00 a year. So, if I don't use my insurance for that year, how is that a benefit for me? How did I gain anything in my pay? I didn't. I just lost money. So you can't call that compensation if it was never realized. They might have a shift differential, but I don't. They might get holiday pay. I used to get 10, now I get 5. I've been cut 2 weeks of vacation a year also. In 2003 we took pay and benefit cuts of over 30% in my department. When we exit bankruptcy, I'll take another 17% cut. I'm not sure how it is over at GM, but I know the numbers the float out there are as bloated as their heads and bonuses are.

So you pay $2500 a year for insurance, so do I and millions of others who hope they never have to use it, that doesn't mean the employer provided costs went away, and American most assuredly covers some of your cost for insurance, so yes it is compensation and thank god you didn't get sick and need to utilize it. So you didn't lose money Rick, the insurer normally invests their cash for later down the road. 10 years of your $2500 a year ($25,000) can be used up by you when the big one hits in the first day of your hospitalization. Will you call it compensation when that $100,000 bill get paid?

As far as holiday and personal days and sick days I really have no compassion, no offense, but in 23 years of being self-employed (yes, my decision), I have had NONE. ZERO ZIP NADA. When we go to Myrtle Beach it's totally on my dime, I don't get paid for the week off, and frankly in these tough times, anyone that still gets paid days off better enjoy them, they are getting fewer. My wifes sister passed away suddenly in March and we basically lost 2 weeks pay due to circumstances beyond our control and we absorbed it and moved on. We had no personal time or sick time or bereavement time or vacation to use up, only our self sufficient attitudes.

Keep in mind you work in an environment that is bargained for you, (not me and right wingers), and if your union signs that contract it will be because it was the best deal that they could get for you guys. They understand the economy as well as we think we do , and it sucks. Airlines are slashing flights, fares and workers, and filling planes to the brim to survive. Delta just closed Comair for crying out loud and 700 jobs are lost, right here in Cincy. Times are tough in your business, I understand that, they are tough for GM as well a millions of other business, (except Chick-fil-a ).

Chick-fil-a hit a gold mine. I bet Dan Cathy thought he really stuck his foot in his mouth this time, until...... boom! They've never had so much business.

[Rick]

If American put out ads tomorrow denouncing gay marriage, you'd be busy and get a better contract.

[The_Noble_Cause]

..it shows that Mitt is serious with fiscal policy, and re-confirms his committment to repeal Obamacare.

Considering that The Ryan Plan was actually denounced and cut to ribbons by most serious economists, this VP pick does exactly the opposite.
Romney just handed Obama a landslide. Way to pick Mr. "Throw Grandma from the Train" himself.
Brilliantly awful choice.

[slucero]

definitely will grab some of the undecided swing votes..

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

definitely will grab some of the undecided swing votes..

Ryan is a good pick, I really like him. I still fully intend to vote Libertarian though, just this last week we had Andrea Saul (Romneys spokesman) making official statements gloating about how great Mitts government healthcare in Massachusetts was. Still don't trust Mitt. The problem with Romney Ryan certainly isn't with the bottom of the ticket, its with the top of it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Well, the Pubbies who were worried about Mitt the RINO (me included), are a bit more at ease this morning. I'm already seeing that the Tea Party people are very happy with this pick, and a United GOP and Tea Party can only mean one thing. VICTORY!

These people are going to crawl over piles of steaming hot Chick-fil-a chicken patties and waffle fries to vote out the Dope.

Just like Palin with McCain, this is a desperation pick. Tea Partiers/Limbaugh fans may be excited. That's about the extent of it. Ryan was chosen to energize a base that was not fully behind the party standard bearer. Never a good sign headed into an election.

[Memorex]

Who is this Mitt Romney you speak of? I still have no idea what the guy stands for or is about.

[slucero]

Well, the Pubbies who were worried about Mitt the RINO (me included), are a bit more at ease this morning. I'm already seeing that the Tea Party people are very happy with this pick, and a United GOP and Tea Party can only mean one thing. VICTORY!

These people are going to crawl over piles of steaming hot Chick-fil-a chicken patties and waffle fries to vote out the Dope.

Just like Palin with McCain, this is a desperation pick. Tea Partiers/Limbaugh fans may be excited. That's about the extent of it. Ryan was chosen to energize a base that was not fully behind the party standard bearer. Never a good sign headed into an election.

http://www.polsci.buffalo.edu/contrib/f ... Voters.pdf

The perception is that elections are about swing votes... the facts show otherwise..

When Obama won.... the country at that time wanted "change"... and the Dems got the youth vote and a lot of fence-siting conservatives. Biden was Obama's "Ryan"... but it didn't matter as Obama was was the swing vote magnet..

This go round is gonna be about just how much "change" has occurred under Obama, and the example held up by the Reps will be the economy... Obama will not be able to blame Bush, as that would be a moronic campaign strategy.. and the Reps are gonna go after the swing vote with the "another change is in order" mantra...

Romney has all but conceded the Hispanic vote, but that voting block hasn't has kept pace with their growth in the population, so its a crap-shoot just how much of a factor the Hispanic vote will be.

I'd expect the youth liberal vote (where unemployment 16.6%, even though it always tracks 2:1 vs. the U3 rate) goes back to the sidelines or partially switches to the conservative side... and the Libertarians & conservatives who sat on the fence, along with some of the fence sitters to lean towards the Rep ticket now.

Ryan is a good choice to target those voters....the question is just how much of an actual difference they'll make.


The main takeaway of this (for me) is that Ryan just became the 2016 candidate (if Obama wins).

[conversationpc]

Well, the Pubbies who were worried about Mitt the RINO (me included), are a bit more at ease this morning. I'm already seeing that the Tea Party people are very happy with this pick, and a United GOP and Tea Party can only mean one thing. VICTORY!

These people are going to crawl over piles of steaming hot Chick-fil-a chicken patties and waffle fries to vote out the Dope.

Just like Palin with McCain, this is a desperation pick. Tea Partiers/Limbaugh fans may be excited. That's about the extent of it. Ryan was chosen to energize a base that was not fully behind the party standard bearer. Never a good sign headed into an election.

It's not like the Palin pick at all, in my opinion. Most conservatives I know think he's a good choice. Not like when Palin was picked and everyone was thinking "What the hell?" or "Who the hell is she?".

[Behshad]

Enough said .

Sure, Paul Ryan is young, handsome, and intelligent.  However, his voting record is not as appealing.

Ryan’s voting record is pock-marked with questionable votes, but there are three major “YES” votes that should concern every voter.  Moreover, the selection of Paul Ryan should further call into question the decision-making abilities of presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney.
.

STRIKE 1
The USA Patriot Act of 2001 - http://t-j.cc/TqrWJb

- Eleven years after The Patriot Act was passed, the controversy and stigma has not diminished.  The Patriot Act was a gross attack on the 1st and 4th Amendment protections of all Americans.  A number of the provisions included the original bill signed by President Bush were overturned by the US Supreme Court as unconstitutional, while most of the remaining statutes have been extended multiple times by Congress.

 

STRIKE 2
Medicare Part D (Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement & Modernization Act of 2003) -  http://t-j.cc/Tqscry

- Medicare Part D – which has existed for less than a decade – is already one of the greatest unfunded liabilities on the government’s ledger, as it will surpass $21,000,000,000,000 ($21 Trillion) within a matter of weeks from the date of this article.  This means that Medicare Part D is currently $5 Trillion more than our National Debt ($15.9 Trillion), and $5.1 Trillion larger than the liability of the 77 year-old Social Security program – which stands at $15.8 Trillion.

 

STRIKE 3
Iraq War (Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002) - http://t-j.cc/TqsA9C

- Nearly 4,500 American soldiers dead in a “war” that was initiated on lies and/or faulty intelligence.  Enough said.

 

Three strikes and you’re out, right?

Apparently, that rule only applies in baseball.

 


“I hope they don’t look at my voting record”
Only in the toxic, sulfuric political atmosphere that currently resides in America, can these votes be rewarded with an appointment as the Vice Presidential candidate.

We aren’t even taking into account the abysmal “Ryan Plan” that was released to be a “blueprint for American renewal”, which had the US Government racking up large annual deficits until the year 2040.

The “Ryan Plan” wasn’t only about the budget, but it also included plans to reform the Medicare program.  Due to this, many people believe that as VP Candidate, Paul Ryan would bring entitlement reform to the table.

Wait.  Do people actually expect the same man who voted for the $21 Trillion Medicare Part D catastrophe to discuss or propose reforms that will improve Medicare itself, as well as cut costs?

Is that not akin to entrusting a known burglar to install your home security system?

With the track record that Paul Ryan brings with him, how can this be viewed as positive for America – much less the GOP and the Romney campaign?  The record shows that Paul Ryan is unable to be trusted to make proper decisions on important issues that affect the lives of the American public, and the forthcoming generations.

[slucero]

Enough said .

Sure, Paul Ryan is young, handsome, and intelligent.  However, his voting record is not as appealing.

Ryan’s voting record is pock-marked with questionable votes, but there are three major “YES” votes that should concern every voter.  Moreover, the selection of Paul Ryan should further call into question the decision-making abilities of presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney.
.

STRIKE 1
The USA Patriot Act of 2001 - http://t-j.cc/TqrWJb

- Eleven years after The Patriot Act was passed, the controversy and stigma has not diminished.  The Patriot Act was a gross attack on the 1st and 4th Amendment protections of all Americans.  A number of the provisions included the original bill signed by President Bush were overturned by the US Supreme Court as unconstitutional, while most of the remaining statutes have been extended multiple times by Congress.

 

STRIKE 2
Medicare Part D (Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement & Modernization Act of 2003) -  http://t-j.cc/Tqscry

- Medicare Part D – which has existed for less than a decade – is already one of the greatest unfunded liabilities on the government’s ledger, as it will surpass $21,000,000,000,000 ($21 Trillion) within a matter of weeks from the date of this article.  This means that Medicare Part D is currently $5 Trillion more than our National Debt ($15.9 Trillion), and $5.1 Trillion larger than the liability of the 77 year-old Social Security program – which stands at $15.8 Trillion.

 

STRIKE 3
Iraq War (Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002) - http://t-j.cc/TqsA9C

- Nearly 4,500 American soldiers dead in a “war” that was initiated on lies and/or faulty intelligence.  Enough said.

 

Three strikes and you’re out, right?

Apparently, that rule only applies in baseball.

 


“I hope they don’t look at my voting record”
Only in the toxic, sulfuric political atmosphere that currently resides in America, can these votes be rewarded with an appointment as the Vice Presidential candidate.

We aren’t even taking into account the abysmal “Ryan Plan” that was released to be a “blueprint for American renewal”, which had the US Government racking up large annual deficits until the year 2040.

The “Ryan Plan” wasn’t only about the budget, but it also included plans to reform the Medicare program.  Due to this, many people believe that as VP Candidate, Paul Ryan would bring entitlement reform to the table.

Wait.  Do people actually expect the same man who voted for the $21 Trillion Medicare Part D catastrophe to discuss or propose reforms that will improve Medicare itself, as well as cut costs?

Is that not akin to entrusting a known burglar to install your home security system?

With the track record that Paul Ryan brings with him, how can this be viewed as positive for America – much less the GOP and the Romney campaign?  The record shows that Paul Ryan is unable to be trusted to make proper decisions on important issues that affect the lives of the American public, and the forthcoming generations.

Obama has a bunch of those strikes against him too... nuff said...


How's that GM crow tastin'?

[Behshad]

Even those who think Obama is lousy know what Paul Ryan is all about
Who gives a shit what kraut&fake think of this pick. November can't get here soon enough

Stop me if you've heard this one before: A relatively moderate GOP nominee has picked a much younger and more conservative running mate. Anyone surprised at this has forgotten the last quarter-century of political history. Paul Ryan follows in the path of Palin, Kemp, Quayle -- basically every post-Reagan VP candidate except Cheney. All of them but Kemp were relative novices; all of them but Palin lacked executive experience. I should add that all of them after the first Quayle campaign lost, and even then Quayle probably cost Bush more votes than he gained. So this isn't necessarily a strategy that wins elections. But it does keep the base in line.

How should the base feel about that? I can't speak for conservatives, but I'll pass along these thoughts from The Daily Beast's Eli Lake:

The worst that can happen to Paul Ryan is that the ticket wins. Then Ryan -- who has won a loyal following as the principled budget cutter -- will have to line up behind Romney budgets. This is kind of like putting Eddie Van Halen in REO Speedwagon. Yes it makes REO Speedwagon rock a lot harder, but it totally ruins Van Halen.


Libertarians, meanwhile, should find it easy to reject Ryan. He's a hawk with a rotten record on civil liberties: bad on the Patriot Act, bad on indefinite detentions, bad on surveillance, bad on the border fence, bad on the drug war. On the economic front, he has backed the bank and auto bailouts, Medicare Part D, even Davis-Bacon. His reputation as a free-market stalwart rests on his exaggerated reputation as a budget hawk and his habit of praising Ayn Rand. The second of those clearly hasn't meant much when it's time to vote on legislation, and as for the first...well, if the Democrats went nuts and replaced Joe Biden with Barney Frank, I'd have some kind words for his stances on pot and gambling, but I wouldn't feel tempted to vote for him.

If Ryan were going head to head against Obama, you could make a case that the faux Randian is a lesser evil than the faux Alinskyan. In most of the places where Ryan is bad, after all, Obama is pretty lousy too. But for vice president? At least Joe Biden keeps me entertained.

[Behshad]

Vice President Joe Biden personally called his newly-minted VP challenger Rep. Paul Ryan this morning to essentially say: "game on."

In a statement following the call, the Obama campaign said Biden wanted to congratulate Ryan, a congressional colleague for the past 13 years, and "welcome him to the race."

"The Vice President urged Congressman Ryan to enjoy the day with his family," the statement reads, "and said he looked forward to engaging him on the clear choice voters face this November."

Biden, 69, and Ryan, 42, will face-off in one nationally-televised vice presidential debate set for Oct. 11 in Danville, Ky.

Both men, who have spent their entire political careers on Capitol Hill at a young age, are considered leading policymakers within their parties, with Biden possessing a particular foreign policy expertise and Ryan specializing in economics. Biden served in the Senate from 1973 to 2009, Ryan in the House since 1999.

The VP rivals' phone call follows a similar personal exchange between President Obama and Mitt Romney in May after Romney clinched the Republican nomination.

Obama at the time said that he was looking forward to "an important and healthy debate about America's future, and wished Governor Romney and his family well throughout the upcoming campaign."

[slucero]

Biden possessing a particular foreign policy expertise and Ryan specializing in economics.

No one is gonna give a shit about foreign policy in November.....

[Behshad]

These are facts that voters will pay attention to before they pick their choice

It’s a big day in presidential politics. Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney has chosen Wisconsin Congressman Paul Ryan as his running mate. The Vice President pick says a lot about a nominee’s legislative priorities, and with Ryan joining Romney on the ticket, we think there are a few things you should know.

1. Paul Ryan authored budget proposals that would end Medicare as we know it. His budget proposal would repeal health care reform, sticking seniors with the bill and leaving their health care at risk. This is especially problematic for women, who make up fifty-six percent of Medicare beneficiaries.

2. Paul Ryan’s budget plan would have cut SNAP grants by 18%. SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) grants, also known as food stamps, has kept 3.9 million Americans (equivalent to the entire population of Oregon), including 1.7 million children, out of poverty, and allowed them to keep their families from going hungry. This plan also would have drastically cut jobs, leaving 174,000 people out of work.

3. Paul Ryan is bad for women. He voted for a bill that would have effectively banned abortion coverage by insurers who received federal or taxpayer funding. This bill, which Ryan favored, would have allowed anyone involved to refuse to perform an abortion for any reason, even if the life of the woman needing the abortion was in danger.

4. Paul Ryan is extremely anti-choice. Paul Ryan voted for the Protect Life Act, which grants hospitals far-reaching powers to deny women abortion care, without any exception for emergency situations. US law currently requires hospitals receiving federal funds to provide emergency care to anyone in need up to the point at which they can be stabilized or transferred, if the original hospital is incapable of providing the care they need. "The misnamed Protect Life Act is about allowing women to die if they need an emergency abortion," said Meghan Rhoad, women’s rights researcher at Human Rights Watch. "It is a vicious attack on women’s rights and on the most basic right to life.’”

5. Paul Ryan wants to defund Planned Parenthood. This ideological attack would only result in more women losing access to necessary and basic health care. One in five American women have used Planned Parenthood health services.

There you have it. While Mitt Romney parades Paul Ryan around as his pick to be first in the line of succession to the presidency, you now have the facts. Paul Ryan has a long history of voting against affordable health care and women’s health. His legislative priorities leave millions of people at risk of losing their health care and in medical and financial danger. Combined with Mitt Romney’s bad policies, it’s clear: the Romney/Ryan ticket is bad for women and families.

[slucero]

Even those who think Obama is lousy know what Paul Ryan is all about
Who gives a shit what kraut&fake think of this pick. November can't get here soon enough

Stop me if you've heard this one before: A relatively moderate GOP nominee has picked a much younger and more conservative running mate. Anyone surprised at this has forgotten the last quarter-century of political history. Paul Ryan follows in the path of Palin, Kemp, Quayle -- basically every post-Reagan VP candidate except Cheney. All of them but Kemp were relative novices; all of them but Palin lacked executive experience. I should add that all of them after the first Quayle campaign lost, and even then Quayle probably cost Bush more votes than he gained. So this isn't necessarily a strategy that wins elections. But it does keep the base in line.

How should the base feel about that? I can't speak for conservatives, but I'll pass along these thoughts from The Daily Beast's Eli Lake:

The worst that can happen to Paul Ryan is that the ticket wins. Then Ryan -- who has won a loyal following as the principled budget cutter -- will have to line up behind Romney budgets. This is kind of like putting Eddie Van Halen in REO Speedwagon. Yes it makes REO Speedwagon rock a lot harder, but it totally ruins Van Halen.


Libertarians, meanwhile, should find it easy to reject Ryan. He's a hawk with a rotten record on civil liberties: bad on the Patriot Act, bad on indefinite detentions, bad on surveillance, bad on the border fence, bad on the drug war. On the economic front, he has backed the bank and auto bailouts, Medicare Part D, even Davis-Bacon. His reputation as a free-market stalwart rests on his exaggerated reputation as a budget hawk and his habit of praising Ayn Rand. The second of those clearly hasn't meant much when it's time to vote on legislation, and as for the first...well, if the Democrats went nuts and replaced Joe Biden with Barney Frank, I'd have some kind words for his stances on pot and gambling, but I wouldn't feel tempted to vote for him.

If Ryan were going head to head against Obama, you could make a case that the faux Randian is a lesser evil than the faux Alinskyan. In most of the places where Ryan is bad, after all, Obama is pretty lousy too. But for vice president? At least Joe Biden keeps me entertained.

Your understanding of politics is about as good as your understanding of how GM calculates revenue...

we all know what yer about... enjoy!

[Behshad]

Emily's List?

That's required political reading right there. NOT!


no wonder you didn't link, I'd be embarassed too.

Oh you'll be embrassed , come November
Say , will you be in charge of starting the "President Barack Obama - Second Term " thread ?!

[slucero]

You really don't get it...

Wall Street hates Obama.. he's out of favor with them... and Wall Street runs this country... so an Obama win means another 4 years of split or Rep majority Congress... stalemate on the Hill... and an economy that stays in the tank...


Ryan is a hedge for 2016 should Obama win...

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

The worst that can happen to Paul Ryan is that the ticket wins. Then Ryan -- who has won a loyal following as the principled budget cutter -- will have to line up behind Romney budgets. This is kind of like putting Eddie Van Halen in REO Speedwagon. Yes it makes REO Speedwagon rock a lot harder, but it totally ruins Van Halen.

a legitimate worry and quite witty (wished I made that up) .This guy clearly doesnt know that the REO used to rock in the 70s though!

Libertarians, meanwhile, should find it easy to reject Ryan. He's a hawk with a rotten record on civil liberties: bad on the Patriot Act, bad on indefinite detentions, bad on surveillance,

this too is a legitimate worry. Economic liberty and civil liberty are equally important. Anyone who ignores either one of these will end up with NEITHER of them and far too many mainstream GOPers don't understand this.