President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[StevePerryHair]

As of 2008, (updated in 2010), the bottom 50% made $33k or less and only paid 2.7% of the tax burden. The top 1% pay almost 40% and what’s even more astonishing is that the top 50% pay virtually the whole kit and caboodle 97.3%. Talk about a tax loophole!


This tape will resonate with lots of Tea Party types who were warry of voting for Romney as Obama Light. It will bring the base around which is bad for the Dems. Now Mother Jones is gonna release another tape where Romney speaks truth to power on the Palistenian issue. From the blurbs I've heard Romney is dead on, and saying what no one else has the guts to say. These tapes are helping Romney with the people he needs most. When someone tells the truth even the media has a hard time spinning it. Last night the net was all a twitter with libs thinking this tape was Romneys deathknell, yet this morning it's barely a blurb on the media I've watched except MSNBC which nobody watches.

Made my local news this morning. Though we are a swing state.... yay lucky us!

[StevePerryHair]

It made the news for sure, but the media is not gushing over it like they did when Romney came out last week and spoke about Libya, which they thought was a gaff. I think after sleeping on it the media decided not to pursue this as a gaff because it is in fact the truth. A truth that hurts Obama. 47% don't pay income taxes and that needs to be drumned into the electorates mindset by Romney, the Dems do not want that 47% figure out there because it contrasts with their meme that the rich don't pay their fair share, and this reality puts that lie by Obama to shame. The so called rich pay damn near all of the bills.

Now, I have seen numerous libs this morning saying, "but but the poor do pay taxes, payroll taxes." Well guess what, that sounds well and good but just what are payroll taxes? Social Security, Medicare and Disability taxes. ie...money paid in that you get back later on in life. It's a forced saving and healthcare tax. Payroll taxes do not pay the Countrys bills at all.

Hmm... that's not the spin as I heard it here....

[conversationpc]

The unadulterated truth is that Romney screwed up. Was what he said true? Yes, but it's just dumb to say that anywhere as a political candidate. On the other hand, Obama's also said dumb things like average Americans clinging to their "God and guns". Also a dumb thing to say and something he's never repudiated as far as I know.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Now, I have seen numerous libs this morning saying, "but but the poor do pay taxes, payroll taxes." Well guess what, that sounds well and good but just what are payroll taxes? Social Security, Medicare and Disability taxes. ie...money paid in that you get back later on in life. It's a forced saving and healthcare tax. Payroll taxes do not pay the Countrys bills at all.

Yes you are right that these are all programs that people (rich and poor) are forced to pay into.
The problem with with them all is that because folks are forced against their will to pay into them, that means they can not make any private provision for themselves. Furthermore, government involvement in health insurance and other markets only ruins those markets making services more scarce expensive, and ineffective. Of course future generations won't benefit from an insolvent SS or Medicare funds. Add to that the way that minimum wages and the welfare system has created an underclass and youth unemployment.

I'd say that the lower 47% are as much victims as the top 53%. Perhaps a bit of compassion over the way that government has destroyed their lives too is in order- its damaging us ALL

[Monker]

Romney on the offensive...I like. You can't twist what he said. Plain, simple truth.

In fact he is saying exactly what I've said here for years. But dont mind me. Watch the video.

47% do not pay tax. If they pay it is usually rebated via EITC. People are tired of this.

If you are talking about that article you posted after this post, you are correct. He is stating hard right Republican conservative crap that will cost him votes from moderates and independents as he alienates 50% of the country.

Romney can't win...he either loses his base by being too moderate, or he loses the moderates by appearing too extreme. I've said that since before he was even nominated...and that is exactly what is happening. The Republican party is really screwed up right now.

Monker, I think you guys should re-think this line of thought as a good thing for your side. Lets look at the reverse angle.

Romney says 47% are dependent on government,
0bama says 100% are dependent on government

who is alienated in O's world?

The one who comes out and specifically says their job is to ignore that percentage of the country.

What Romney said is political suicide.

[Monker]

As of 2008, (updated in 2010), the bottom 50% made $33k or less and only paid 2.7% of the tax burden. The top 1% pay almost 40% and what’s even more astonishing is that the top 50% pay virtually the whole kit and caboodle 97.3%. Talk about a tax loophole!

You are saying somebody who makes 33k/yr should pay higher taxes? That is just plain stupid. These people are struggling just to get by.

If you want that percentage to change then the problem isn't taxes....the problem is there are too many people making 33k/yr or less.

Anyone who sees that and is thinking, "Ah, there's a problem...poor people need to pay more taxes," is frankly an idiot living in some kinda political fantasy land.

[Monker]

Right leaning people are leaning further right by the moment with this stuff.

A simple truth that you don't want to admit: There are not enough "right leaning people" voting in this election to win. Romney needs moderates to win. So, go ahead relish these moments that cause Romney to be viewed as a far right Republican...because it hurts him more then it helps him.

As to the "Bitter clinger" O comment, he was putting down a segment of society, Romney was stating a truth, big difference, and Mitt stuck to his guns in last nights press conference.

It was also a true statement. It also alienated Obama from a segment of voters. The BIG difference is Obama's statement was talking about a segment of voters who were never going to vote for him anyway...people more interested in calling him a Muslim without a birth certificate then having a debate about the real issues. Romney is alienating himself from such a large portion of the nation that he can not win.

What is funny is all these things you view as positives for Romney, are going to hurt him in the long run. By the end of the week, he's probably going to be a point or two further behind. And, it gives Obama ammo for the debates. Just plain politically stupid for Romney...and politically ignorant for you to see them as positives.

Now, about this video, it's sounding alot like that Muslim video redux..it has been on Youtube since May, but just now it's being brought out by the media so desperate to support Obama. Then there is this little tidbit...

Jimmy Carter's grandson says he helped broker release of Romney fundraiser video - @NBCNews

25 mins agofrom firstread.nbcnews.com

Can you say "Contrived (as TNC might say), faux outrage".

LOL...you don't even read your own copy/paste articles. This was in the article you posted.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

“If paying taxes is as “patriotic” as the Democrats claim it is, why do they want 47% exempted from it?”

The problem is not that too few people pay income tax. It is that big government is actively destroying everyone's lives. Government should be small, that everyone only pays a little bit.

[Michigan Girl]

Romney on the offensive...I like. You can't twist what he said. Plain, simple truth.

In fact he is saying exactly what I've said here for years. But dont mind me. Watch the video.

47% do not pay tax. If they pay it is usually rebated via EITC. People are tired of this.

If you are talking about that article you posted after this post, you are correct. He is stating hard right Republican conservative crap that will cost him votes from moderates and independents as he alienates 50% of the country.

Romney can't win...he either loses his base by being too moderate, or he loses the moderates by appearing too extreme. I've said that since before he was even nominated...and that is exactly what is happening. The Republican party is really screwed up right now.

Monker, I think you guys should re-think this line of thought as a good thing for your side. Lets look at the reverse angle.

Romney says 47% are dependent on government,
0bama says 100% are dependent on government

who is alienated in O's world?

The one who comes out and specifically says their job is to ignore that percentage of the country.

What Romney said is political suicide.

Romney said what 53% of this country is thinking.
However, in doing so, he alienated 47% ...sometimes things
are better left unsaid.

[Monker]

“If paying taxes is as “patriotic” as the Democrats claim it is, why do they want 47% exempted from it?”

Why do you Republicans see that 47% as a group that needs a tax increase rather then 50% of the population who need better jobs that pay more? Which would mean: those people could live a better life, be better consumers, have a higher income that would pay more taxes - of all kinds, and be better for the person and the country as a whole.

I suppose for a simple mind, simply raising taxes is a much easier fix to change a percentage that you misrepresent for political reasons.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

“If paying taxes is as “patriotic” as the Democrats claim it is, why do they want 47% exempted from it?”

The problem is not that too few people pay income tax. It is that big government is actively destroying everyone's lives. Government should be so small that everyone only pays a little bit.

[Monker]

“If paying taxes is as “patriotic” as the Democrats claim it is, why do they want 47% exempted from it?”

The problem is not that too few people pay income tax. It is that big government is actively destroying everyone's lives. Government should be small, that everyone only pays a little bit.

"Big Government" has nothing to do with this. Explain how being in a tax bracket that happens to cause you to not pay income taxes has anything to do with "Big Government". And, how making government smaller will change this.

[Monker]

Romney on the offensive...I like. You can't twist what he said. Plain, simple truth.

In fact he is saying exactly what I've said here for years. But dont mind me. Watch the video.

47% do not pay tax. If they pay it is usually rebated via EITC. People are tired of this.

If you are talking about that article you posted after this post, you are correct. He is stating hard right Republican conservative crap that will cost him votes from moderates and independents as he alienates 50% of the country.

Romney can't win...he either loses his base by being too moderate, or he loses the moderates by appearing too extreme. I've said that since before he was even nominated...and that is exactly what is happening. The Republican party is really screwed up right now.

Monker, I think you guys should re-think this line of thought as a good thing for your side. Lets look at the reverse angle.

Romney says 47% are dependent on government,
0bama says 100% are dependent on government

who is alienated in O's world?

The one who comes out and specifically says their job is to ignore that percentage of the country.

What Romney said is political suicide.

Romney said what 53% of this country is thinking.

So,53% of the country feels that 47% of the country should be politically ignored? Prove it. And, remember half the nation is Democrat...and these percentages are not aligned by party. I think you are completely wrong.

However, in doing so, he alienated 47% ...sometimes things
are better left unsaid.

Exactly.

[Memorex]

Monker - you can't be serious here.

People do want the 47% to have better paying jobs. Absolutely. The problem is that big government (and you can't honestly say the government is not too big) makes it far to easy to not take those jobs. You know as well as I do a huge chunk of the 47% that pay no taxes are in those brackets by choice. Why work when the government will pay your way?

If you went to school and the teacher said look, if you work really hard, I'll give you an A. But for those of you who just can't make the effort, you will get a C, even if you do nothing. Oh, and to make it fair, those that get an A can certainly get by with a B, so I'll take one letter grade from everyone with an A and give it to those with a C. Now, would you work your ass off for the B, or would you kick back and do nothing and get the B?

You and I and many people here would still work our ass off for the B. But most people, given the choice, would simply collect "what is rightfully theirs" by doing nothing. And that percentage, just by human nature, will continue to grow and grow until people are tired of giving up their A's.

[Memorex]

The Social Security Administration has released new data revealing that 8,786,049 American workers are collecting federal disability insurance payments in September. That sets yet another record for the number of Americans on disability.

The 8,786,049 workers taking federal disability in September is a net increase of 18,108 from the 8,767,941 workers who took federal disability in August.

Over the past 45 years, the number of American workers taking federal disability payments has increased four-fold relative to the number actually working.

[Memorex]

As a logical consequence of the prolonged economic downturn it appears that participation in the federal food stamp program is continuing to rise.

In fact, household participation has been climbing so steadily that it has far surpassed the last peak (which looks like a minor blip by comparison) set as a result of the immediate fallout following hurricane Katrina.

The latest data released by the Department of Agriculture indicated that in June, 173,612 recipients were added to the food stamps program with the current total increasing 3.29% on a year-over-year basis while household participation increased 4.90% over the same period.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

“If paying taxes is as “patriotic” as the Democrats claim it is, why do they want 47% exempted from it?”

The problem is not that too few people pay income tax. It is that big government is actively destroying everyone's lives. Government should be small, that everyone only pays a little bit.

"Big Government" has nothing to do with this. Explain how being in a tax bracket that happens to cause you to not pay income taxes has anything to do with "Big Government". And, how making government smaller will change this.

Of course it (big government) does. For every dollar the government spends, there is one less dollar that that is in the private sector available for investment, saving or private consumption.
Big government spending (whether it is on inefficient domestic programs or runaway defense spending and reckless wars) has to be funded by taxes or reckless monetary expansion by the Fed which ruins the middle class and poor. The middle class and poor are forced against their will to pay contributions to SS, Medicare and a host of other entitlement programs when in fact they might benefit from temporarily using those funds to invest, start a business, or stick it into a private medical or private retirement fund.

Big government screws poor and middle class people not rich folks like Thurston Howell Romney and his friends.

& There's is nothing wrong being in a lower tax bracket per se - I myself am glad that 47 percent of folks don't have to pay income tax- but it does nothing better for your life in itself.

[Monker]

Sure, I'll say there is a portion that just doesn't want to work. But, a "huge" chunk...I don't think so.

You are wrapping into that 47% statistic, young people just entering the workforce, people working part time, retired people on Social Security, along with people who have been laid off or lost their job who are now trying to get back in the workforce. I doubt this 'huge portion' is even 1/4 of the 47%

So, no, people relying on 'big government' is not the issue here.

Create better paying jobs and I bet this 47% could be cut in half, at least.

And, no, you don't want better paying jobs if all you do is want to talk about is taxes on these people...that is the Republican plan.

Monker - you can't be serious here.

People do want the 47% to have better paying jobs. Absolutely. The problem is that big government (and you can't honestly say the government is not too big) makes it far to easy to not take those jobs. You know as well as I do a huge chunk of the 47% that pay no taxes are in those brackets by choice. Why work when the government will pay your way?

If you went to school and the teacher said look, if you work really hard, I'll give you an A. But for those of you who just can't make the effort, you will get a C, even if you do nothing. Oh, and to make it fair, those that get an A can certainly get by with a B, so I'll take one letter grade from everyone with an A and give it to those with a C. Now, would you work your ass off for the B, or would you kick back and do nothing and get the B?

You and I and many people here would still work our ass off for the B. But most people, given the choice, would simply collect "what is rightfully theirs" by doing nothing. And that percentage, just by human nature, will continue to grow and grow until people are tired of giving up their A's.

[Memorex]

The fact is, nothing will change. There was momentum in '94 for Clinton and Congress to shrink the government. But with this bad economy lasting so long, I think people are afraid of losing this increased safety net.

Right now, you have increased food prices out the ass, gas that is doubled, and utility bills that are only higher. Those are direct hits on the poor and middle class and it creates a lot of fear and uncertainty for them (probably the intended outcome). So they become more and more hopeful that there will be government programs to help them out, rather than taking another job or whatever. In my poorest days, I worked three jobs. And for the last 15 years, I've had good jobs but always done side work to keep things rolling. But more and more people no longer want to put in that kind of effort when they see so many others doing nothing and getting paid.

Not one person here, even Monker, can point to any study or data that shows society becomes harder working as time goes by. Entitlements will always increase and no president is going to be able to roll that back without a lot of violence. What used to be a fringe group is becoming more and more mainstream. And hey - it's America, believe whatever you want. But we are long past the tipping point, in my opinion, of what this country can afford to hand out. And no matter who is elected, I'm sure it will only be worse 4 years from now. This is a collective societal issue, not a party issue.

[Memorex]

All of the tax comments are not directed at the 47%. They are directed at the people that think 47% is too low and that the rich don't pay their fair share. Of course 47% of the people not paying taxes is way too high, but asking the top 5% to pay even more is just silly.

I agree that not all 47% want to be in that bracket. I'm simply saying that the number of people who are relying on government is growing year over year at an unsustainable rate.

Republicans do not want to tax the poor. Show me who said that. They want to not tax the rich more and find ways to get the lower 47% better jobs (or a job at all) in order to contribute.

[Monker]

“If paying taxes is as “patriotic” as the Democrats claim it is, why do they want 47% exempted from it?”

The problem is not that too few people pay income tax. It is that big government is actively destroying everyone's lives. Government should be small, that everyone only pays a little bit.

"Big Government" has nothing to do with this. Explain how being in a tax bracket that happens to cause you to not pay income taxes has anything to do with "Big Government". And, how making government smaller will change this.

Of course it (big government) does. For every dollar the government spends, there is one less dollar that that is in the private sector available for investment, saving or private consumption.

So, you like the Republican plan of raising taxes on these people, which ALSO removes the $'s from the private sector, and blah, blah, blah...as you wrote above, and I wrote earlier.

Big government spending

...is not what we are talking about.

& There's is nothing wrong being in a lower tax bracket per se - I myself am glad that 47 percent of folks don't have to pay income tax- but it does nothing better for your life in itself.

Again, FF's - and Romney's - complaint is they don't pay taxes. If you want them to pay taxes, raise their income...don't raise their taxes or remove the Earned Income Credit, etc. That's just plain stupid.

You are in fact, lowering their income. That may have the affect of making MORE people MORE dependent on "Big Government".

[Monker]

All of the tax comments are not directed at the 47%. They are directed at the people that think 47% is too low and that the rich don't pay their fair share. Of course 47% of the people not paying taxes is way too high, but asking the top 5% to pay even more is just silly.

I agree that not all 47% want to be in that bracket. I'm simply saying that the number of people who are relying on government is growing year over year at an unsustainable rate.

Republicans do not want to tax the poor. Show me who said that. They want to not tax the rich more and find ways to get the lower 47% better jobs (or a job at all) in order to contribute.

And Progressive Liberals want it this way for one reason.

Because it is in your political fantasy land that you make up to justify your own beliefs.

[Memorex]

You have to put half of Obama's in Bush's column though. Just saying.

[Behshad]

You have to put half of Obama's in Bush's column though. Just saying.

Thats not how he sees it. He even thinks anything under Bush's term that seems negative should be filed under Clinton's column and anything good that Obama has done should be filed under Bush's column. Yep thats republicans for you . Its not a party , its a mental condition.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Any numbers of how many are career government assistance sponges vs lagit people who became unemployed?

[Memorex]

Any numbers of how many are career government assistance sponges vs lagit people who became unemployed?

Only my unscientific poll. Of the people I know that are unemployed, almost all are flakes or are turning that way.

[Behshad]

[The Sushi Hunter]

You have to put half of Obama's in Bush's column though. Just saying.

Thats not how he sees it. He even thinks anything under Bush's term that seems negative should be filed under Clinton's column and anything good that Obama has done should be filed under Bush's column. Yep thats republicans for you . Its not a party , its a mental condition.

I've never met a dem who didn't do the very same thing. What a hypocrite you are.

[Behshad]

You have to put half of Obama's in Bush's column though. Just saying.

Thats not how he sees it. He even thinks anything under Bush's term that seems negative should be filed under Clinton's column and anything good that Obama has done should be filed under Bush's column. Yep thats republicans for you . Its not a party , its a mental condition.

I've never met a dem who didn't do the very same thing. What a hypocrite you are.

Oh go fuck yourself. Anytime you read something you dont understand or you dont agree with , you call people hypocrite. Do you even know what that means ?
I have said in the past that we have had great and louzy presidents from both parties. Bush Sr was a great republican president and his son was a lousy one.
You assume Im a democrat. You assume that I think everything democrats do is great and they never make any mistakes. Youre a windbag !

[The Sushi Hunter]

Any numbers of how many are career government assistance sponges vs lagit people who became unemployed?

Only my unscientific poll. Of the people I know that are unemployed, almost all are flakes or are turning that way.

Reminds me of when I was a kid. I used to sell candy door to door and mow lawns while I was in junior high. I used to work five jobs at the same time every summer during my high school years. I'd get to all these jobs that I had on my ten speed. I bought my own r/c airplanes, little sail boat, pontoon boat with motor and cb, lots of fishing gear, coin collection, stereo, compound bow, racing bike, etc. while so many other kids would stand around with absolutely no effort and initiative to get a job but have all these excuses and bitch that they didn't have anything. Who would have thought I'd be a Republican while they'd be Dems? Now I know where the Dems come from. Hind sight is always 20/20.