President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[conversationpc]

All jokes aside with the women in binders, Romney was asked about qomen and equal pay and not once did he say that women should get paid equally, just that he has looked for women (in binders) competent enough to do the job, but not a damn thing about their pay , simply because he still thinks that women dont deserve the same pay for the same job as men.

Where's your proof that Romney, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't want women to be paid equally when all other qualifications are equal?

He tried to convince people that he creates jobs at the same time that he said Government doesnt create jobs !

Government doesn't create jobs. He's absolutely correct. What government can do is get the hell out of the way and create an atmosphere that is friendly towards business creating new jobs.

Or we could all just pretend that Romney was great last nite, won the whole thing and has already won the election. better ?

Romney wasn't bad but wasn't great, either. Obama also wasn't bad or great. The polls are saying basically the same thing, that neither one really clearly won the debate. Obama certainly performed better than the ass whipping he got the first time but this wasn't a game changer for either side.

[Memorex]

If all the Dems have is a comment about binders full of women, then I'm satisfied with the outcome of this debate.

Theres more to talk about, but whats the point when you have already made up your mind.

All jokes aside with the women in binders, Romney was asked about qomen and equal pay and not once did he say that women should get paid equally, just that he has looked for women (in binders) competent enough to do the job, but not a damn thing about their pay , simply because he still thinks that women dont deserve the same pay for the same job as men.

He tried to convince people that he creates jobs at the same time that he said Government doesnt create jobs !
He also took pride when he closed down a coal mine, but now all of a sudden he loves coal.


Or we could all just pretend that Romney was great last nite, won the whole thing and has already won the election. better ?

Most things I've read said two things. The President was 10 times better last night than the last debate and it was generally a draw, some giving slight edge to Obama and some giving the edge to Romney. I don't think I am gong to have time to watch it though. Hopefully I'll see Monday's. Who is on MNF?

[Memorex]

I think generally the Republican platform doesn't single out groups as much. I think there is a generally feeling that the best people should be given the best job and they don't really get into race and sex and all that.

That said, neither do they spend a whole lot of time talking about specific opportunities for those groups either. It's kind of like if you are in an unfortunate situation, than so be it, we'll move on without you.

Democrats spend a whole lot of time talking about groups and want millions of programs that target these specific groups.

As with most things, I think the answer lies somewhere in between. We as a country have to get better at lifting those on the bottom up, while not forcing the achievers to come down a level.

And frankly, the White House needs to pay their women as fairly as they do the men. I think the stat is something like women get paid less than 80% of what their counterparts get.

I think something very drastic has to happen to shake up the lower class in this country and turn things around. I'm not sure what that is. I know it's not higher taxes, but it's something.

[Memorex]

Something else struck me last night. On the exchange about China - Obama said some jobs will never come back. He said he wanted high paying jobs, as if he is writing off the low paying jobs.

Well, that's like the penny. It costs more to produce a penny than a penny is worth. I think it's 2 cents to make every penny. But we keep the penny because if we got rid of it, the nickle's value would suddenly slide. So we are propping up the nickle and above by losing money on the penny. Well, if some of those lower-paying jobs don't come back, you will see more of what is already happening - the jobs that used to pay better are going to pay less. Sure, it sucks to make low wages, but someone has to. And what about those people not qualified for higher level jobs? We will always have the need for low paying jobs. Always. And so we should not write them off.

[Behshad]

Where's your proof that Romney, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't want women to be paid equally when all other qualifications are equal?

Where is your proof that he does support it ?

Government doesn't create jobs. He's absolutely correct. What government can do is get the hell out of the way and create an atmosphere that is friendly towards business creating new jobs.

He keeps saying that HE will create jobs, by giving business owners tax breaks. Fact = Businesses do not create jobs because of some tax break, when the demand is unchanged.

Romney wasn't bad but wasn't great, either. Obama also wasn't bad or great. The polls are saying basically the same thing, that neither one really clearly won the debate. Obama certainly performed better than the ass whipping he got the first time but this wasn't a game changer for either side.

Romney hurt himself by coming across as rude and not very presidential when trying to agrue about who gets to answer a question first. Plus, he should know better that even though he is up there given a chance to debate, he has to be careful on HOW he talks to the President. Its one thing to try to bring up your points and get the debate going, but not very popular to use the tone he did few times with Obama. Last but not least , I thought during the debate, the questions come from the moderator and the audience, but Romney ignored that and started asking Obama direct questions.

But as I said, lets just say Romney won again. so now its 2-0 and Romney will wrap it up with a 3-0 on Monday and then close the whole thing on the 6th.

[conversationpc]

Where's your proof that Romney, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't want women to be paid equally when all other qualifications are equal?

Where is your proof that he does support it ?

That's a circular and specious argument. The burden of proof falls to the one making the accusation.

He keeps saying that HE will create jobs, by giving business owners tax breaks. Fact = Businesses do not create jobs because of some tax break, when the demand is unchanged.

Tax breaks and a steady tax structure for small business does indeed produce a better environment for hiring. A lower tax rate gives small businessmen and women more cash on hand during the year for hiring. The extra money on hand can certainly create higher demand for jobs.

Romney hurt himself by coming across as rude and not very presidential when trying to agrue about who gets to answer a question first. Plus, he should know better that even though he is up there given a chance to debate, he has to be careful on HOW he talks to the President. Its one thing to try to bring up your points and get the debate going, but not very popular to use the tone he did few times with Obama. Last but not least , I thought during the debate, the questions come from the moderator and the audience, but Romney ignored that and started asking Obama direct questions.

But as I said, lets just say Romney won again. so now its 2-0 and Romney will wrap it up with a 3-0 on Monday and then close the whole thing on the 6th.

Obama interrupted Romney more than vice versa, so I'm not sure why you think Romney was ruder than Obama. Obama ended up with about three full minutes additional time compared to Obama due to the President's more frequent interruptions.

[Behshad]

Something else struck me last night. On the exchange about China - Obama said some jobs will never come back. He said he wanted high paying jobs, as if he is writing off the low paying jobs.

Well, that's like the penny. It costs more to produce a penny than a penny is worth. I think it's 2 cents to make every penny. But we keep the penny because if we got rid of it, the nickle's value would suddenly slide. So we are propping up the nickle and above by losing money on the penny. Well, if some of those lower-paying jobs don't come back, you will see more of what is already happening - the jobs that used to pay better are going to pay less. Sure, it sucks to make low wages, but someone has to. And what about those people not qualified for higher level jobs? We will always have the need for low paying jobs. Always. And so we should not write them off.

Its very simple, some jobs will never come back to US, because the pay wouldbe ridiculously low {here} and way beyond minimum wage to pay people here in US. It's a simple fact. We have had millions of "Made in China" items for decades and they will still be "Made in China" because of the cheap labor there . Do you know anyone that would work for $4/hr to make .25 koozies ?

[Memorex]

I did see some clips on the news of Romney directly asking the president a question and for me, that did not play well at all. You are right. First, you have to follow the rules and that was a big one he broke. I didn't see if the President did the same. Second, you do have to address the President with a certain level of respect no matter who you are. So I thought Romney lost points on that for sure.

That said - maybe it played well with the people who are utterly disrespectful to this president. I think Obama and George Bush both have been treated with far too much disdain and I think it's going to get worse with the next guy. As far as I can tell, this all started with the Republicans going after Clinton on the Blowinsky thing and then Bush/Gore/Florida. And the anger on both sides has never subsided. Dems calling Bush Hitler. A sitting congressman calling the president a liar during a joint session. It's like the house of commons or something.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Raced home, only stopping to pick up some take-out along the way, flipped on the TV, and the fucking cable was out! Bastards! WTF. Who won?

[Memorex]

Raced home, only stopping to pick up some take-out along the way, flipped on the TV, and the fucking cable was out! Bastards! WTF. Who won?

You. For not having to sit through it.

[Behshad]

That's a circular and specious argument. The burden of proof falls to the one making the accusation.

“When Governor Romney’s campaign was asked about the Lilly Ledbetter bill, whether he supported it, he said I’ll get back to you,” Obama said. “That’s not the kind of advocacy that women need in any economy.”

Thats a nice "no I dont support it , but if I say it out loud now it will cost me the election.

Tax breaks and a steady tax structure for small business does indeed produce a better environment for hiring. A lower tax rate gives small businessmen and women more cash on hand during the year for hiring. The extra money on hand can certainly create higher demand for jobs.

More cash doesnt ALWAYS lead businesses to hire more people. Higher demands of the product/services the business offer does. A business owner wont just hire more people , when every position is coveres, just because he saved some money on taxes. If you get a bit extra on your income tax return next year, will you hire a nanny or a butler to help you out ?

Obama interrupted Romney more than vice versa, so I'm not sure why you think Romney was ruder than Obama. Obama ended up with about three full minutes additional time compared to Obama due to the President's more frequent interruptions.

Its not about interrupting eachother, Its about the tone. The total minutes are controller by the moderator, but when the moderator pretty much had to tell Romney to STUF and sit down, that is when he has gone too far. Asking direct questions is also a big no-no, but Romney did it more than once.

Dave, Why worry though? Romney is gonna win this eaily !

[conversationpc]

Raced home, only stopping to pick up some take-out along the way, flipped on the TV, and the fucking cable was out! Bastards! WTF. Who won?

You. For not having to sit through it.

Obama was a lot better than the first debate. Romney probably about the same. Crowley as the moderator inserted herself against the rules and actually attempted to correct Romney on at least two occasions, something that's not her job as moderator. Overall, there's probably little or no change in momentum one way or the other.

[Behshad]

Raced home, only stopping to pick up some take-out along the way, flipped on the TV, and the fucking cable was out! Bastards! WTF. Who won?

Romney


Pay your damn cable bill !

[conversationpc]

That's a circular and specious argument. The burden of proof falls to the one making the accusation.

“When Governor Romney’s campaign was asked about the Lilly Ledbetter bill, whether he supported it, he said I’ll get back to you,” Obama said. “That’s not the kind of advocacy that women need in any economy.”

Thats a nice "no I dont support it , but if I say it out loud now it will cost me the election.

Last I knew, the Romney camp indicated they would not repeal the Lilly Ledbetter bill (according to the Huffington Post). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/1 ... 17913.html

More cash doesnt ALWAYS lead businesses to hire more people. Higher demands of the product/services the business offer does. A business owner wont just hire more people , when every position is coveres, just because he saved some money on taxes.

No one said it ALWAYS does but it gives them the opportunity to do so when they might not normally be able to.

Its not about interrupting eachother, Its about the tone. The total minutes are controller by the moderator, but when the moderator pretty much had to tell Romney to STUF and sit down, that is when he has gone too far. Asking direct questions is also a big no-no, but Romney did it more than once.)

It certainly is about interrupting. When you're being given less than equal time and the opponent is allowed to interrupt and talk over you, it's certainly a factor.

[Memorex]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/17/Crowley-interrupts-28-times-Romney

[Memorex]

Funny:

President Obama spoke of being president in the past tense during last night's second presidential debate with Mitt Romney: "The way we're going to create jobs here is not just changing our tax code, but also to double our exports. And we are on pace to double our exports, one of the commitments I made when I was president. That's creating tens of thousands of jobs all across the country."

I'm sure he meant "became" and not "was".

[Behshad]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/17/Crowley-interrupts-28-times-Romney

more than half of those 28 times she interrupted Romney was when Romney was over his time and arguing with her. If she is supposed to just down and listen and let them go at it without any rules, then why even have a moderator ?

[Behshad]

[Enigma869]

Crowley as the moderator inserted herself against the rules and actually attempted to correct Romney on at least two occasions, something that's not her job as moderator.

I couldn't agree with this more. I found Crowley's behavior really odd, as "The Moderator". Ultimately, I hate all fucking politicians, so I truly wish someone would call every one of their endless lies out right in the middle of them trying to blow smoke up everyone's ass, but it probably wasn't her job to do that.

[The Sushi Hunter]

You can't be serious...dude..MITT KICKED ASS ALL OVER THE TV..

He had his ass handed to him. Of course you think he did great. You'd never man up even if he did fail , which he did.

You're the pot calling the kettle black I see.

[Behshad]

You can't be serious...dude..MITT KICKED ASS ALL OVER THE TV..

He had his ass handed to him. Of course you think he did great. You'd never man up even if he did fail , which he did.

You're the pot calling the kettle black I see.

Do you even know what that means ?


I said Romney won the first debate.


"Only a fool would say that Romney lost the debate"

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... tart=15210

[conversationpc]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/17/Crowley-interrupts-28-times-Romney

more than half of those 28 times she interrupted Romney was when Romney was over his time and arguing with her. If she is supposed to just down and listen and let them go at it without any rules, then why even have a moderator ?

If he hadn't, Obama's time would've been even more lopsided. So the question is, if Romney was going over his time by a little then Obama mus'tve been going over A LOT since he had three full minutes additional speaking time than did Romney.

[The Sushi Hunter]

I'm not sure what that means.

[The Sushi Hunter]

You can't be serious...dude..MITT KICKED ASS ALL OVER THE TV..

He had his ass handed to him. Of course you think he did great. You'd never man up even if he did fail , which he did.

You're the pot calling the kettle black I see.

Do you even know what that means ?

I said Romney won the first debate.

"Only a fool would say that Romney lost the debate"

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... tart=15210

Saying that he lied as to why he won is not legitimately saying someone won. You don't receive credit for that. Besides, my point is manning up and admitting to failure.

[Behshad]

You can't be serious...dude..MITT KICKED ASS ALL OVER THE TV..

He had his ass handed to him. Of course you think he did great. You'd never man up even if he did fail , which he did.

You're the pot calling the kettle black I see.

Do you even know what that means ?

I said Romney won the first debate.

"Only a fool would say that Romney lost the debate"

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... tart=15210

Saying that he lied as to why he won is not legitimately saying someone won. You don't receive credit for that. Besides, my point is manning up and admitting to failure.

I admitted that Romney won the first debate which means Obama lost the first debate. Which means Obama failed in the first debate. Do you get it ?
FactFinder would never fess up if Romney failed and neither would you .

[The Sushi Hunter]

You can't be serious...dude..MITT KICKED ASS ALL OVER THE TV..

He had his ass handed to him. Of course you think he did great. You'd never man up even if he did fail , which he did.

You're the pot calling the kettle black I see.

Do you even know what that means ?

I said Romney won the first debate.

"Only a fool would say that Romney lost the debate"

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... tart=15210

Saying that he lied as to why he won is not legitimately saying someone won. You don't receive credit for that. Besides, my point is manning up and admitting to failure.

I admitted that Romney won the first debate which means Obama lost the first debate. Which means Obama failed in the first debate. Do you get it ?
FactFinder would never fess up if Romney failed and neither would you .

So what's the sushi pillow about?

[Behshad]

[The Sushi Hunter]

Does it bother anyone that he flat out lied about Libya? First time I've been flat out fucking pissed at Obama. Despite Candy's additional lie, he never called it that and went out for weeks later say otherwise.

Saying "No acts of terror..." and then saying 15 times later that it wasn't is not calling it an act of terror. That really angers me.

You're absolutely right. After last night's debate, I had to rewatch this rose garden address this morning and Obama does not call what happened in Libya on 9-11 an act of terrorism. For the first few minutes he talks about the attack but never mentions it as an act of terrorism. Obama then goes on to reflect what happened on 9-11 during the terrorist attacks on American soil. That's when he starts the references to acts of terrorism.

Sure this is micro analyzing which doesn't amount to much really. But what does is all the tap dancing Obama does to fix the shit he and his administration has gotten wrong. That's the problem with him and his administration. And from what he and his administration was saying about the 9-11 Libya issue for days if not weeks after was that it was spontaneous from an out of control protest/riot because of the anti-Muslim video. Hell, I didn't even know such a video existed until I was hearing about it from this administration in the news following the Libya incident. That's all that came out of him and his administration for days, if not weeks after it happened.

[Behshad]

Does it bother anyone that he flat out lied about Libya? First time I've been flat out fucking pissed at Obama. Despite Candy's additional lie, he never called it that and went out for weeks later say otherwise.

Saying "No acts of terror..." and then saying 15 times later that it wasn't is not calling it an act of terror. That really angers me.

You're absolutely right. After last night's debate, I had to rewatch this rose garden address this morning and Obama does not call what happened in Libya on 9-11 an act of terrorism. For the first few minutes he talks about the attack but never mentions it as an act of terrorism. Obama then goes on to reflect what happened on 9-11 during the terrorist attacks on American soil. That's when he starts the references to acts of terrorism.

Sure this is micro analyzing which doesn't amount to much really. But what does is all the tap dancing Obama does to fix the shit he's got wrong. That's the problem with him and his administration. And from what he and his administration was saying about the 9-11 Libya issue for days if not weeks after was that it was spontaneous from an out of control protest/riot because of the video. That's all that came out of him and his administration for days, if not weeks after it happened.

dude, get over it. youre hanging on to minor details. He did mention it as act of terrorism and against all your bets, instead of blaming things on Hillary (who took responsibility yesterday morning), Obama took full responsibility !
How did Bush react when act of terrorism was taking place on 9/11/01 ?

[The Sushi Hunter]

A portion of the San Francisco Bay Bridge that has been going through a recent retrofit was manufactured and shipped over from China recently. Why is an American landmark bridge being made and shipped in from China?

This type of thing is happening now and not just when Romney becomes president if he wins this upcoming election. Obama talks about business in China like it's only going to happen if Romney becomes president. The truth is, it's been happening throughout Obama's presidency and I've not heard Obama squawking about it ever before the debates so chances are, it's just all talk on his part.