President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[slucero]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

[Boomchild]

TOP SPOOK OUT: PETRAEUS RESIGNS OVER 'AFFAIR'

Was Slated to Testify on Benghazi Next Week...

Yep, a little suspicious, don't you think?

Nothing will become of how the Benghazi attack was handled. Even the major press has stopped talking about it for the most part. It will have no effect on Obama's re-election or his second term.

The shit will hit the fan, just not now. It will have to wait until after Hillary has left her post, so her record is not tarnished, just in case she decides to run for President again. News was suppressed prior to the election, so as not to upset Obama's chances for relection.

He won 141% of the vote in St. Lucie county Fla. That means more people voted than registered voters.......somehow.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfiel ... y-florida/

And if this happens this will effect Obama how?? He's a lame duck president now. Do you think that he would be impeached over the situation? I don't think so. He'll still be there and his polices will still do what they are going to do.

[steveo777]

TOP SPOOK OUT: PETRAEUS RESIGNS OVER 'AFFAIR'

Was Slated to Testify on Benghazi Next Week...

Yep, a little suspicious, don't you think?

Nothing will become of how the Benghazi attack was handled. Even the major press has stopped talking about it for the most part. It will have no effect on Obama's re-election or his second term.

The shit will hit the fan, just not now. It will have to wait until after Hillary has left her post, so her record is not tarnished, just in case she decides to run for President again. News was suppressed prior to the election, so as not to upset Obama's chances for relection.

He won 141% of the vote in St. Lucie county Fla. That means more people voted than registered voters.......somehow.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfiel ... y-florida/

And if this happens this will effect Obama how?? He's a lame duck president now. Do you think that he would be impeached over the situation? I don't think so. He'll still be there and his polices will still do what they are going to do.

Obama won't be impeached, not tonight. There will be fall guys. Petraeus is one of those guys, but it will get deeper. This whole Petraeus resignation over an alleged affair is a "wag the dog" type diverson.

[conversationpc]

Not a big deal to see the President do things as normal people do once in awhile.

That isn't the point. You lefties gave Bush hell for golfing relatively few times during his presidency. Heck, Obama had golfed in just two years far more than Bush did his entire term.

[Behshad]

Not a big deal to see the President do things as normal people do once in awhile.

That isn't the point. You lefties gave Bush hell for golfing relatively few times during his presidency. Heck, Obama had golfed in just two years far more than Bush did his entire term.

I wish Bush would've golfed every single day during his 8 years.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

[Monker]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

[slucero]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

Actually that's also not true..

My experience has been that the consultant/contractor price (either through fixed fee or hourly basis) especially when the consultant/contractor is obtained through personnel services has not only been "fair" it has been padded.. but even with that margin increase for the supplier, the benefit of contracting to a personnel service is that skillets can be categorized (programmer, network admin, financial analyst, etc.) and the price points can be fixed (on a project or hourly basis), and it is usually fair to both parties.

Being able to expense the cost of consulting/contracting is the main driver.


Independent contractors have to price themselves competitively... and most learn quickly what is fair.... or they simply get no business.

[Boomchild]

TOP SPOOK OUT: PETRAEUS RESIGNS OVER 'AFFAIR'

Was Slated to Testify on Benghazi Next Week...

Yep, a little suspicious, don't you think?

Nothing will become of how the Benghazi attack was handled. Even the major press has stopped talking about it for the most part. It will have no effect on Obama's re-election or his second term.

The shit will hit the fan, just not now. It will have to wait until after Hillary has left her post, so her record is not tarnished, just in case she decides to run for President again. News was suppressed prior to the election, so as not to upset Obama's chances for relection.

He won 141% of the vote in St. Lucie county Fla. That means more people voted than registered voters.......somehow.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfiel ... y-florida/

And if this happens this will effect Obama how?? He's a lame duck president now. Do you think that he would be impeached over the situation? I don't think so. He'll still be there and his polices will still do what they are going to do.

Obama won't be impeached, not tonight. There will be fall guys. Petraeus is one of those guys, but it will get deeper. This whole Petraeus resignation over an alleged affair is a "wag the dog" type diverson.

I think Petraeus' resignation are for a different reason(s) then the Benghazi attack and not due to his adultery. To me it's a deeper issue. The reality is this situation will have no effect on Obama being President and in that respect is now a moot issue. I think that Obama feels that the U.S. has been to intrusive on other countries and governments and would like to see the U.S. step back from being such a big influence in this way. Look at the way he has been dealing with or not dealing with Israel.

[Monker]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

Actually that's also not true..

My experience has been that the consultant/contractor price (either through fixed fee or hourly basis) especially when the consultant/contractor is obtained through personnel services has not only been "fair" it has been padded.. but even with that margin increase for the supplier, the benefit of contracting to a personnel service is that skillets can be categorized (programmer, network admin, financial analyst, etc.) and the price points can be fixed (on a project or hourly basis), and it is usually fair to both parties.

Being able to expense the cost of consulting/contracting is the main driver.


Independent contractors have to price themselves competitively... and most learn quickly what is fair.... or they simply get no business.

Then you don't know the market as well as you think you do. I can tell you that what I got paid at an hourly rate is $13,000/yr more then for the same type of position I work now full time. And, frankly, that doesn't even include what the consulting company I was contracting through gets paid. And, if I were completely independent, I would be able to take an even higher rate.

You are looking at it from the client perspective, not the contractor perspective. Contractors absolutely get paid more to make up for the lack of benefit. Only an idiot of a contractor would take a salary equal to a full time employee...that would make absolutely no sense at all. In fact, the one time that was offered to me, I felt insulted and didn't take the job.

[steveo777]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

[slucero]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

Actually that's also not true..

My experience has been that the consultant/contractor price (either through fixed fee or hourly basis) especially when the consultant/contractor is obtained through personnel services has not only been "fair" it has been padded.. but even with that margin increase for the supplier, the benefit of contracting to a personnel service is that skillets can be categorized (programmer, network admin, financial analyst, etc.) and the price points can be fixed (on a project or hourly basis), and it is usually fair to both parties.

Being able to expense the cost of consulting/contracting is the main driver.


Independent contractors have to price themselves competitively... and most learn quickly what is fair.... or they simply get no business.

Then you don't know the market as well as you think you do. I can tell you that what I got paid at an hourly rate is $13,000/yr more then for the same type of position I work now full time. And, frankly, that doesn't even include what the consulting company I was contracting through gets paid. And, if I were completely independent, I would be able to take an even higher rate.

You are looking at it from the client perspective, not the contractor perspective. Contractors absolutely get paid more to make up for the lack of benefit. Only an idiot of a contractor would take a salary equal to a full time employee...that would make absolutely no sense at all. In fact, the one time that was offered to me, I felt insulted and didn't take the job.

I know the market better than you can read a fucking post.... put on your glasses and try again. (see the highlighted portion above). I never said contractors/consultants made the same... I said it was negotiated to be fairly priced. My point was that the benefit in expensing the cost of consulting/contractors far outweighed the additional cost.

I owned a consulting company that grossed a million plus a year Monker, and I was also contractor/consultant, and a business owner who also HIRED contractors and consultants for my own business.

If you got $13,000/yr more, hey good for you. My own experience at contracting myself out was at twice my employed rate, which amounted to $80,000/yr. more than for the same employee position.. I know I'd have felt like an idiot to have taken less than I was worth.

[slucero]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

Sources please.

[StevePerryHair]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

Hmm, then explain the Puerto Ricans I know who voted for him? Educated American Puerto Ricans?

And the half Cuban friend I have who voted Romney because she is so dead set against a lean towards socialism, because it reminds her of the communist country most of her family suffers in.

What about all the South American Hispanics that were angry with Obama over Chavez and that whole situation.

What about my son's Honduran girlfriends family, with the "Romney" sign in their front yard?

You have an issue with Mexicans. That's quite clear. They are only a portion of the Hispanic vote. Stop trying to make it about race. I know plenty of financially comfortable, educated, intelligent CAUCASIAN people who voted Obama. This is not a black/Hispanic thing. Quit trying to blame the Mexicans. The answer lies in Romney. For many he couldn't sell himself to the people sitting in the middle.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

Hmm, then explain the Puerto Ricans I know who voted for him? Educated American Puerto Ricans?

And the half Cuban friend I have who voted Romney because she is so dead set against a lean towards socialism, because it reminds her of the communist country most of her family suffers in.

What about all the South American Hispanics that were angry with Obama over Chavez and that whole situation.

What about my son's Honduran girlfriends family, with the "Romney" sign in their front yard?

You have an issue with Mexicans. That's quite clear. They are only a portion of the Hispanic vote. Stop trying to make it about race. I know plenty of financially comfortable, educated, intelligent CAUCASIAN people who voted Obama. This is not a black/Hispanic thing. Quit trying to blame the Mexicans. The answer lies in Romney. For many he couldn't sell himself to the people sitting in the middle.

You are absolutely right. Romney got 2.5 million votes less than John McCain. that means this talk about demographics doesnt really wash. Romney got a lower percentage of hispanic votes than Obama, that is true, but that was not the real cause. If you look at Romney's numbers - he won independents by 5 % , got establishment republicans to turn out, got "neo-cons" to turn out and even got evangelical Christians/social cons to turn out. Who didnt turn out were the economic conservatives and libertarian conservatives and the original tea party people (thats small "t" tea party activist not the official Tea Party groups which are nothing more than GOP hack orgs now.), Ron Paul primary voters (250,000 of them stayed home) , supporters of traditional republican realist/non interventionist foreign policy. That number equates to a TOTAL 3 - 3.5 million supporters. They show up, Romney wins a squeaker in the popular vote and wins Ohio, Va, Fla, and Colo.

Yes demographics is kicking in and will make it tough for the GOP in the future , but that was never going to be the case until 2016 or 2020.

[Monker]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

Actually that's also not true..

My experience has been that the consultant/contractor price (either through fixed fee or hourly basis) especially when the consultant/contractor is obtained through personnel services has not only been "fair" it has been padded.. but even with that margin increase for the supplier, the benefit of contracting to a personnel service is that skillets can be categorized (programmer, network admin, financial analyst, etc.) and the price points can be fixed (on a project or hourly basis), and it is usually fair to both parties.

Being able to expense the cost of consulting/contracting is the main driver.


Independent contractors have to price themselves competitively... and most learn quickly what is fair.... or they simply get no business.

Then you don't know the market as well as you think you do. I can tell you that what I got paid at an hourly rate is $13,000/yr more then for the same type of position I work now full time. And, frankly, that doesn't even include what the consulting company I was contracting through gets paid. And, if I were completely independent, I would be able to take an even higher rate.

You are looking at it from the client perspective, not the contractor perspective. Contractors absolutely get paid more to make up for the lack of benefit. Only an idiot of a contractor would take a salary equal to a full time employee...that would make absolutely no sense at all. In fact, the one time that was offered to me, I felt insulted and didn't take the job.

I know the market better than you can read a fucking post.... put on your glasses and try again. (see the highlighted portion above). I never said contractors/consultants made the same... I said it was negotiated to be fairly priced. My point was that the benefit in expensing the cost of consulting/contractors far outweighed the additional cost.

I owned a consulting company that grossed a million plus a year Monker, and I was also contractor/consultant, and a business owner who also HIRED contractors and consultants for my own business.

If you got $13,000/yr more, hey good for you. My own experience at contracting myself out was at twice my employed rate, which amounted to $80,000/yr. more than for the same employee position.. I know I'd have felt like an idiot to have taken less than I was worth.

You replied to my post where I said that contractors get paid more to make up for benefits with "Actually, that's also not true" Read your own fucking post, and those that you are replying to before going off on them.

[slucero]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

Actually that's also not true..

My experience has been that the consultant/contractor price (either through fixed fee or hourly basis) especially when the consultant/contractor is obtained through personnel services has not only been "fair" it has been padded.. but even with that margin increase for the supplier, the benefit of contracting to a personnel service is that skillets can be categorized (programmer, network admin, financial analyst, etc.) and the price points can be fixed (on a project or hourly basis), and it is usually fair to both parties.

Being able to expense the cost of consulting/contracting is the main driver.


Independent contractors have to price themselves competitively... and most learn quickly what is fair.... or they simply get no business.

Then you don't know the market as well as you think you do. I can tell you that what I got paid at an hourly rate is $13,000/yr more then for the same type of position I work now full time. And, frankly, that doesn't even include what the consulting company I was contracting through gets paid. And, if I were completely independent, I would be able to take an even higher rate.

You are looking at it from the client perspective, not the contractor perspective. Contractors absolutely get paid more to make up for the lack of benefit. Only an idiot of a contractor would take a salary equal to a full time employee...that would make absolutely no sense at all. In fact, the one time that was offered to me, I felt insulted and didn't take the job.

I know the market better than you can read a fucking post.... put on your glasses and try again. (see the highlighted portion above). I never said contractors/consultants made the same... I said it was negotiated to be fairly priced. My point was that the benefit in expensing the cost of consulting/contractors far outweighed the additional cost.

I owned a consulting company that grossed a million plus a year Monker, and I was also contractor/consultant, and a business owner who also HIRED contractors and consultants for my own business.

If you got $13,000/yr more, hey good for you. My own experience at contracting myself out was at twice my employed rate, which amounted to $80,000/yr. more than for the same employee position.. I know I'd have felt like an idiot to have taken less than I was worth.

You replied to my post where I said that contractors get paid more to make up for benefits with "Actually, that's also not true" Read your own fucking post, and those that you are replying to before going off on them.

"Fairly priced" = inclusive of the cost of benefits.... everyone knows there is was/is implied benefit cost premium built into the contractor/consultant pricing... it's common knowledge. It's why we used our own benefit costs as a baseline to assess a "fair" price with contractor/consultants.

It's also why never I said contractors/consultants made the same...


If that confused you. I apologize.

[slucero]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

Hmm, then explain the Puerto Ricans I know who voted for him? Educated American Puerto Ricans?

And the half Cuban friend I have who voted Romney because she is so dead set against a lean towards socialism, because it reminds her of the communist country most of her family suffers in.

What about all the South American Hispanics that were angry with Obama over Chavez and that whole situation.

What about my son's Honduran girlfriends family, with the "Romney" sign in their front yard?

You have an issue with Mexicans. That's quite clear. They are only a portion of the Hispanic vote. Stop trying to make it about race. I know plenty of financially comfortable, educated, intelligent CAUCASIAN people who voted Obama. This is not a black/Hispanic thing. Quit trying to blame the Mexicans. The answer lies in Romney. For many he couldn't sell himself to the people sitting in the middle.

In a past thread he called all Muslims "ragheads"... which he later recanted..

In a past thread he's said he counseled his children against dating out side their race... only to recant when the "character" qualifier was used by the OP, who's own daughter wound up in a bi-racial relationship with a great kid.



It's pretty obvious based on his posts where he stands on race, whether he wants to admit it or not.

[Boomchild]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

I don't think race was the motivator for this election. It was the people who feel government can solve the jobless problem and that taxing the rich more will make the deficit go away. That and people who have a job but were concerned that they could be losing it in the near future and would need the programs that Obama supports to fall back on. Now I am also sure that some may have voted for him because of his stance on immigration. But, the focus on that subject during the election campaign was short. The people who are looking for entitlements come from all racial backgrounds.

[The Sushi Hunter]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Why are you all of a sudden taking on the opinion of a Republican? This is exactly what Republicans have been saying all along.

The reason the Dems hands out so much government assistance money to these career welfare groups is because the Dems all know from past experience that if they don't give them money, they will just go out and do crimes like robbery, vandalizm, rape, murder, selling drugs, etc. The way the Dems problem solve is to throw money at the hood to try and curb this type of behavior. They get more money and programs but continue to want more and more.

I've also worked in corporations before where the company had one set of expectations for non-whites and another set of expectations for whites. Basically whites were held accountable for so much while the non-whites basically just had to show up to work. The non-whites would never be discaplined for any wrongdoings while the whites would be accountable for anything and everything existant and non-existant. A non-white could call a white a racist name and when questioned about the comment will say "now you know what it's like" and no discaplinary action would follow. However the same non-white could complain that the white looked at them wrong and the white would be written up for it, regardless if the claim was false.

This is because some companies want to be the do-gooders for a community. They want to get the non-whites off the street because they know that if they fire a non-white, the community will pay from violence, crime, drug sales on the street corner, rape, prostitution, etc. if they fire the non-white. But if they fire the white, the white will simply move on and work hard and get another job. So what's more cost effective for the Dems is to give them more money and get them off the street so they don't cause crime and corruption in the communities.

Why else is the Dems so interested in giving money to non-working individuals?

[steveo777]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Why are you all of a sudden taking on the opinion of a Republican? This is exactly what Republicans have been saying all along.

The reason the Dems hands out so much government assistance money to these career welfare groups is because the Dems all know from past experience that if they don't give them money, they will just go out and do crimes like robbery, vandalizm, rape, murder, selling drugs, etc. The way the Dems problem solve is to throw money at the hood to try and curb this type of behavior. They get more money and programs but continue to want more and more.

Once the hands are in the goverment cookie jar the bar has been set and it's difficult to change it, as it has become the new norm. I'd like to say that too many people won't get it til it's too late, but I think it's already too late. The people you are referencing had no other choice but to vote for Obama or they would have risked their financial security.

[The Sushi Hunter]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Why are you all of a sudden taking on the opinion of a Republican? This is exactly what Republicans have been saying all along.

The reason the Dems hands out so much government assistance money to these career welfare groups is because the Dems all know from past experience that if they don't give them money, they will just go out and do crimes like robbery, vandalizm, rape, murder, selling drugs, etc. The way the Dems problem solve is to throw money at the hood to try and curb this type of behavior. They get more money and programs but continue to want more and more.

Once the hands are in the goverment cookie jar the bar has been set and it's difficult to change it, as it has become the new norm. I'd like to say that too many people won't get it til it's too late, but I think it's already too late. The people you are referencing had no other choice but to vote for Obama or they would have risked their financial security.

It's over, the Dem mentality is at epic proportion in this country. You'll see loser life like Hillary Clinton winning in 2016.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Actually aired on TV...

She looks buffed.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Actually aired on TV...

Fantastic !

[conversationpc]

Actually aired on TV...

Classic!

[Behshad]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Why are you all of a sudden taking on the opinion of a Republican? This is exactly what Republicans have been saying all along.

The reason the Dems hands out so much government assistance money to these career welfare groups is because the Dems all know from past experience that if they don't give them money, they will just go out and do crimes like robbery, vandalizm, rape, murder, selling drugs, etc. The way the Dems problem solve is to throw money at the hood to try and curb this type of behavior. They get more money and programs but continue to want more and more.

I've also worked in corporations before where the company had one set of expectations for non-whites and another set of expectations for whites. Basically whites were held accountable for so much while the non-whites basically just had to show up to work. The non-whites would never be discaplined for any wrongdoings while the whites would be accountable for anything and everything existant and non-existant. A non-white could call a white a racist name and when questioned about the comment will say "now you know what it's like" and no discaplinary action would follow. However the same non-white could complain that the white looked at them wrong and the white would be written up for it, regardless if the claim was false.

This is because some companies want to be the do-gooders for a community. They want to get the non-whites off the street because they know that if they fire a non-white, the community will pay from violence, crime, drug sales on the street corner, rape, prostitution, etc. if they fire the non-white. But if they fire the white, the white will simply move on and work hard and get another job. So what's more cost effective for the Dems is to give them more money and get them off the street so they don't cause crime and corruption in the communities.

Why else is the Dems so interested in giving money to non-working individuals?

Listen moron.
We have had welfare and "government hand outs" during both demorcat and republican presidents. My point is, Romney wouldnt be able to change LAZINESS and government hand outs. All he was gonna change is to give the handouts to the "poor" but put the burden on the middle class to justify the tax break on the wealthy.

This isnt what Republicans have been saying. This is what a lot of people are saying, but half of the people that are complaining about this are on some kind of government help themselves. You cant fix or change lazy . Simple. Oh and in your case , you cant fix stupid !

[Monker]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Yeah, and to get their attention you cut them off. These people will not get a job as long as we give them money.

Here's a new secnario for B, Gin, Slu and Company.

1099


Secnario: You own a car lot and need 7 sales people. They work for you, sell cars all week and you give them a paycheck minus the tax with held and health cost, and they earn 500 a week and get a check for $333. Part of the health cost and half of the FICA are paid by the employer wich is an additional cost beyond the $500 of earnings. With Obamacare on the near horizon you have no choice in the matter now how to administer your health plans, and if you don't offer the plans you get taxed anyway because you have employees.

Sloution: Tomorrow Behsahd goes to work and the dealer says B, you are fired as an employee, but if you'd like you can come and sell my cars and I will pay you the $500 in full, you will be an independant car salesman, pay your own taxes and healthcare out of that $500 and you'll be your own boss. You'll get a 1099 at the end of the year.

I can see quite a few employers using this method to get out of owing anything on Obamacare taxes. Fuck, the fry cook at McD's can be an independent fry cook and McD's just gives him the whole check and McD's don't owe jack shit for healthcare or half FICA.

Brilliant!

Never happen...

I used to work at a Fortune 500 that had lots of contractors.. I managed the contracts with outsourcing companies that provided us contractors, so I got to know the IRS law on it pretty well..

the IRS was prosecuting companies that were 1099ing positions that the IRS deemed should be full time... back in 2002.

Now that the government is hurting for cash. much more than in 2002, they're even more militant about it.. because its way easier to make the companies capture the taxes for you than rely on individuals who get 1099's to pay it.

I think you are right. The IRS is going to get even aggressive investigating companies that heavily use contractors and make sure the lines of who is a W 2 employee and who is a 1099er . I have big clients who have been extremely careful about not falling afoul of these regulations. If they get it wrong the penalties are pretty stiff.
And there are so many regulations - for instance you cannot provide your contractors with certain tools, facilities, or dictating working hours or they are not conractors. The fry guys at McD's would have to have contracts based on how many fries they deliver instead of what hours they worked, and they would have to have their own fry machines, etc etc.

Not to mention that contractors get paid more to make up for the fact that they do not get ANY benefits...including basics like vacation, holiday, and sick pay..in addition to health insurance That $500 gross suddenly becomes $700 - 800 gross because of it. Well, unless the contractor is an idiot and takes less then what he's really worth.

Actually that's also not true..

My experience has been that the consultant/contractor price (either through fixed fee or hourly basis) especially when the consultant/contractor is obtained through personnel services has not only been "fair" it has been padded.. but even with that margin increase for the supplier, the benefit of contracting to a personnel service is that skillets can be categorized (programmer, network admin, financial analyst, etc.) and the price points can be fixed (on a project or hourly basis), and it is usually fair to both parties.

Being able to expense the cost of consulting/contracting is the main driver.


Independent contractors have to price themselves competitively... and most learn quickly what is fair.... or they simply get no business.

Then you don't know the market as well as you think you do. I can tell you that what I got paid at an hourly rate is $13,000/yr more then for the same type of position I work now full time. And, frankly, that doesn't even include what the consulting company I was contracting through gets paid. And, if I were completely independent, I would be able to take an even higher rate.

You are looking at it from the client perspective, not the contractor perspective. Contractors absolutely get paid more to make up for the lack of benefit. Only an idiot of a contractor would take a salary equal to a full time employee...that would make absolutely no sense at all. In fact, the one time that was offered to me, I felt insulted and didn't take the job.

I know the market better than you can read a fucking post.... put on your glasses and try again. (see the highlighted portion above). I never said contractors/consultants made the same... I said it was negotiated to be fairly priced. My point was that the benefit in expensing the cost of consulting/contractors far outweighed the additional cost.

I owned a consulting company that grossed a million plus a year Monker, and I was also contractor/consultant, and a business owner who also HIRED contractors and consultants for my own business.

If you got $13,000/yr more, hey good for you. My own experience at contracting myself out was at twice my employed rate, which amounted to $80,000/yr. more than for the same employee position.. I know I'd have felt like an idiot to have taken less than I was worth.

You replied to my post where I said that contractors get paid more to make up for benefits with "Actually, that's also not true" Read your own fucking post, and those that you are replying to before going off on them.

"Fairly priced" = inclusive of the cost of benefits.... everyone knows there is was/is implied benefit cost premium built into the contractor/consultant pricing... it's common knowledge. It's why we used our own benefit costs as a baseline to assess a "fair" price with contractor/consultants.

It's also why never I said contractors/consultants made the same...


If that confused you. I apologize.

Obviously, not everybody knows the above because FactFinder did not include that in his $500 example...which is the entire point of what I was saying.

Do you even read the posts you are replying to?

The "confusing" part is not the above. The confusing part is you saying I am "wrong" in a point that you agree with.

[Monker]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Why are you all of a sudden taking on the opinion of a Republican? This is exactly what Republicans have been saying all along.

The reason the Dems hands out so much government assistance money to these career welfare groups is because the Dems all know from past experience that if they don't give them money, they will just go out and do crimes like robbery, vandalizm, rape, murder, selling drugs, etc. The way the Dems problem solve is to throw money at the hood to try and curb this type of behavior. They get more money and programs but continue to want more and more.

I've also worked in corporations before where the company had one set of expectations for non-whites and another set of expectations for whites. Basically whites were held accountable for so much while the non-whites basically just had to show up to work. The non-whites would never be discaplined for any wrongdoings while the whites would be accountable for anything and everything existant and non-existant. A non-white could call a white a racist name and when questioned about the comment will say "now you know what it's like" and no discaplinary action would follow. However the same non-white could complain that the white looked at them wrong and the white would be written up for it, regardless if the claim was false.

This is because some companies want to be the do-gooders for a community. They want to get the non-whites off the street because they know that if they fire a non-white, the community will pay from violence, crime, drug sales on the street corner, rape, prostitution, etc. if they fire the non-white. But if they fire the white, the white will simply move on and work hard and get another job. So what's more cost effective for the Dems is to give them more money and get them off the street so they don't cause crime and corruption in the communities.

Why else is the Dems so interested in giving money to non-working individuals?

Listen moron.
We have had welfare and "government hand outs" during both demorcat and republican presidents. My point is, Romney wouldnt be able to change LAZINESS and government hand outs. All he was gonna change is to give the handouts to the "poor" but put the burden on the middle class to justify the tax break on the wealthy.

This isnt what Republicans have been saying. This is what a lot of people are saying, but half of the people that are complaining about this are on some kind of government help themselves. You cant fix or change lazy . Simple. Oh and in your case , you cant fix stupid !

This is why Romney lost, he threatened to create 12 Million new jobs.

Romney lost because he had people like you waiving his banner - willing to say and do anything to get Obama out of office. It was at a point where you could not believe anything he or his supporters said. He can say he was going to create 12 million jobs...but he says a lot of things...and he did, much of it contradicting what he said previously to get the nomination. People stopped believing his, and your, bullshit....especially minorities.

How does it feel to have nominated a John Kerry and lost the election by running on negatives with absolutely no substance or positives to point to.

Romney was unelectable from the start...he was always that way. I think Republicans knew it, but didn't want to admit it....and they also can't admit that this was the best they can do when the country is moderate but the party is far to the right and too conservative for the majority of Americans to stomach.

[Monker]

My point is there are jobs out there. But people are too lazy.
I see " help wanted " signs and ads all over the place.
We had an ad for two weeks to hire a sales guy , making between 35000-50000 a year.
We thought we would have at least 20-30 people applying , but no , only 3 people applied and around 10 people just came in to show that they've been looking for a job so they could get their unemployment or welfare check.
This is the mindset of a lot of people these days. Specially now , when you see people complaining on FB about " freeloaders" ,yet they seem to forget that they are one of them !

Why are you all of a sudden taking on the opinion of a Republican? This is exactly what Republicans have been saying all along.

The reason the Dems hands out so much government assistance money to these career welfare groups is because the Dems all know from past experience that if they don't give them money, they will just go out and do crimes like robbery, vandalizm, rape, murder, selling drugs, etc. The way the Dems problem solve is to throw money at the hood to try and curb this type of behavior. They get more money and programs but continue to want more and more.

Once the hands are in the goverment cookie jar the bar has been set and it's difficult to change it, as it has become the new norm. I'd like to say that too many people won't get it til it's too late, but I think it's already too late. The people you are referencing had no other choice but to vote for Obama or they would have risked their financial security.

It's over, the Dem mentality is at epic proportion in this country. You'll see loser life like Hillary Clinton winning in 2016.

After getting her foreign policy experience under Obama, I'd vote for her. Prior to that, she was also unelectabe...and McCain would have won.

But, you're wrong about why Republicans will lose in 1016. They REFUSE to address the problems within their own party. Until they do that, they will be a minority party. In fact, the longer they wait, the more of a minority they will be.

Get used to Democrats as President.

[Monker]

This was a racially motivated election, before no other. It's taken a few days for me to fully digest how he got reelected. I had to search my own soul, the news, internet....then dig a bit deeper. About 90% of blacks voted for Obama......and about 70% of Hispanics. That is a huge voting base to choose from. I have figured out why they voted for him. There is no doubt that he got the black vote because he was black, that simple. The Hispanic vote is a bit more complicated. Hispanics typically stereo type blacks, as much as anyone. Why would they vote for him? Entitlements! He has been the most lax president on immigration enforcement, as well as the loosest when it comes to Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical care and other government issued perks. Ad to that, you have a minority running the highest office in the country. Glad it's only four more years. We won't be fooled again!

I don't think race was the motivator for this election. It was the people who feel government can solve the jobless problem and that taxing the rich more will make the deficit go away. That and people who have a job but were concerned that they could be losing it in the near future and would need the programs that Obama supports to fall back on. Now I am also sure that some may have voted for him because of his stance on immigration. But, the focus on that subject during the election campaign was short. The people who are looking for entitlements come from all racial backgrounds.

You're wrong. Romney sucks when it comes to Hispanic issues. Self deportation? Give me a break...that's a winning policy? Then there is simple common sense that cutting taxes by %20 is NOT going to balance the budget. Top it off with the fact that the country IS better off then it was four years ago....and Obama is the favorite to win. Romney stayed in the game because of the first debate. If Obama had showed up for that debate, it would have been a landslide.

The bottom line is I see Romney fans and Republicans trying to blame the "%47" instead of taking their party and philosophy by the horns and tuning the message. Good luck with insulting the majority of voters and then trying to win a national election...just won't work.