President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

Moderator: Andrew

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:17 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:I thought freedom of speech is the ability to express freeling what you wish. Is anyone being prohibited from saying anything over the internet or on the phone right now?



The definition of "free speech" is the right to express beliefs and ideas without unwarranted government restriction. The caveat is that "free speech" rights only apply in the public domain... and only as long as what one says is not slanderous, libelous or incites violence against another.

The internet and the phone utilities all privately owned or corporations (not public entities), so there is no right to free speech. Same for all websites that are privately owned (such as this one). The very fact that the government is coercing the owners of these private companies and corporations to divulge personal info of their paying customers without their consent, in violation of their own privacy policies should be cause enough for concern.

That you don't understand any of the above, and aren't even the slightest bit concerned, speaks more to the problems this country faces regarding liberty and rights than anything else.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:18 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:I don't really care much about it since I'm not involved in criminal and/or terrorist activies. But what I do find interesting is how not too many, if any at all, of the liberals are outraged. Back during the Bush years, the libs were out crying about crazy shit like Bush controlling the weather for what they called "crowd control" and tons of conspiracy theory stuff. But that is all it was....conspiracy theory bs. But now in this current admininstration, there is all of this non-fictional shit going on, yet none of these liberals are screaming a peep about it. None of these liberals are putting bunper stickers on their cars like they did right after 9-11. That to me is what's interesting about this entire deal with the current corrupt Prez and admininstration.


The question becomes what all are they looking for? Publicly they are stating it's for terrorist activity. But what if it is is for other things. Such as people that just don't agree with this administration's ideals and how they are governing our country. After all, the government has already been exposed on targeting groups who oppose them through the exploitation of the IRS. Experts have also stated that the shear volume of data being collected can actually hinder their ability to effectively use the data to get what they are after.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:21 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:The Government should just look at everyone's fb page. There they can get just as much information about what everyone is doing plus with pictures too.

As for drawing a line, I'd agree that conversations that I hold in private in my own home face to face with visitors is where I would draw the line. Everything else that is communicated with phone, computer, etc. is stuff I don't give a shit about who hears/records it.


I'm willing to bet they are already doing this.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:23 pm

Fact Finder wrote:'Uhhh…Uh…Uhhh….People!' Obama at Total Loss for Words When Staff Forgets His Speech (Video)

President Obama strolled out to the podium today in San Jose, CA and was immediately at a loss for words. Not only did the President not have teleprompter, his aides forgot his speech.

“My remarks are not sitting here,” the President declared awkwardly. “I’m uhhh….people….oh goodness….uhhhh...folks are sweating back there right now.”

President Obama, who’s often mocked for an over-reliance on scripts, shifted uncomfortably smiling for several moments buying time. An aide sprinted out with a hard copy of the speech, tripping at one point, adding to the drama.


video here: http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/06/07/%E ... his-speech


This kind of thing begs the question, is this guy just a puppet and if so who is really pulling the strings?
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:30 pm

slucero wrote:The definition of "free speech" is the right to express beliefs and ideas without unwarranted government restriction. The caveat is that "free speech" rights only apply in the public domain... and only as long as what one says is not slanderous, libelous or incites violence against another.

The internet and the phone utilities all privately owned or corporations (not public entities), so there is no right to free speech. Same for all websites that are privately owned (such as this one). The very fact that the government is coercing the owners of these private companies and corporations to divulge personal info of their paying customers without their consent, in violation of their own privacy policies should be cause enough for concern.

That you don't understand any of the above, and aren't even the slightest bit concerned, speaks more to the problems this country faces regarding liberty and rights than anything else.


Every American needs to be concerned about this. What's a real joke is B.O. spoke out against this kind of thing under the Bush administration through the Patriot Act. Now he more or less is embracing it.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby steveo777 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:33 pm

Boomchild wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:'Uhhh…Uh…Uhhh….People!' Obama at Total Loss for Words When Staff Forgets His Speech (Video)

President Obama strolled out to the podium today in San Jose, CA and was immediately at a loss for words. Not only did the President not have teleprompter, his aides forgot his speech.

“My remarks are not sitting here,” the President declared awkwardly. “I’m uhhh….people….oh goodness….uhhhh...folks are sweating back there right now.”

President Obama, who’s often mocked for an over-reliance on scripts, shifted uncomfortably smiling for several moments buying time. An aide sprinted out with a hard copy of the speech, tripping at one point, adding to the drama.


video here: http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/06/07/%E ... his-speech


This kind of thing begs the question, is this guy just a puppet and if so who is really pulling the strings?


Valerie Jerrett
User avatar
steveo777
MP3
 
Posts: 11311
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:15 pm
Location: Citrus Heights, Ca

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:22 am

Just how pervasive the surveillance really is..

Tech Companies Concede to Surveillance Program
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/techn ... .html?_r=0


SAN FRANCISCO — When government officials came to Silicon Valley to demand easier ways for the world’s largest Internet companies to turn over user data as part of a secret surveillance program, the companies bristled. In the end, though, many cooperated at least a bit.

Twitter declined to make it easier for the government. But other companies were more compliant, according to people briefed on the negotiations. They opened discussions with national security officials about developing technical methods to more efficiently and securely share the personal data of foreign users in response to lawful government requests. And in some cases, they changed their computer systems to do so.

The negotiations shed a light on how Internet companies, increasingly at the center of people’s personal lives, interact with the spy agencies that look to their vast trove of information — e-mails, videos, online chats, photos and search queries — for intelligence. They illustrate how intricately the government and tech companies work together, and the depth of their behind-the-scenes transactions.

The companies that negotiated with the government include Google, which owns YouTube; Microsoft, which owns Hotmail and Skype; Yahoo; Facebook; AOL; Apple; and Paltalk, according to one of the people briefed on the discussions. The companies were legally required to share the data under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. People briefed on the discussions spoke on the condition of anonymity because they are prohibited by law from discussing the content of FISA requests or even acknowledging their existence.

In at least two cases, at Google and Facebook, one of the plans discussed was to build separate, secure portals, like a digital version of the secure physical rooms that have long existed for classified information, in some instances on company servers. Through these online rooms, the government would request data, companies would deposit it and the government would retrieve it, people briefed on the discussions said.

The negotiations have continued in recent months, as Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, traveled to Silicon Valley to meet with executives including those at Facebook, Microsoft, Google and Intel. Though the official purpose of those meetings was to discuss the future of the Internet, the conversations also touched on how the companies would collaborate with the government in its intelligence-gathering efforts, said a person who attended.

While handing over data in response to a legitimate FISA request is a legal requirement, making it easier for the government to get the information is not, which is why Twitter could decline to do so.

Details on the discussions help explain the disparity between initial descriptions of the government program and the companies’ responses.

Each of the nine companies said it had no knowledge of a government program providing officials with access to its servers, and drew a bright line between giving the government wholesale access to its servers to collect user data and giving them specific data in response to individual court orders. Each said it did not provide the government with full, indiscriminate access to its servers.

The companies said they do, however, comply with individual court orders, including under FISA. The negotiations, and the technical systems for sharing data with the government, fit in that category because they involve access to data under individual FISA requests. And in some cases, the data is transmitted to the government electronically, using a company’s servers.

“The U.S. government does not have direct access or a ‘back door’ to the information stored in our data centers,” Google’s chief executive, Larry Page, and its chief legal officer, David Drummond, said in a statement on Friday. “We provide user data to governments only in accordance with the law.”

Statements from Microsoft, Yahoo, Facebook, Apple, AOL and Paltalk made the same distinction.

But instead of adding a back door to their servers, the companies were essentially asked to erect a locked mailbox and give the government the key, people briefed on the negotiations said. Facebook, for instance, built such a system for requesting and sharing the information, they said.

The data shared in these ways, the people said, is shared after company lawyers have reviewed the FISA request according to company practice. It is not sent automatically or in bulk, and the government does not have full access to company servers. Instead, they said, it is a more secure and efficient way to hand over the data.

Tech companies might have also denied knowledge of the full scope of cooperation with national security officials because employees whose job it is to comply with FISA requests are not allowed to discuss the details even with others at the company, and in some cases have national security clearance, according to both a former senior government official and a lawyer representing a technology company.

FISA orders can range from inquiries about specific people to a broad sweep for intelligence, like logs of certain search terms, lawyers who work with the orders said. There were 1,856 such requests last year, an increase of 6 percent from the year before.

In one recent instance, the National Security Agency sent an agent to a tech company’s headquarters to monitor a suspect in a cyberattack, a lawyer representing the company said. The agent installed government-developed software on the company’s server and remained at the site for several weeks to download data to an agency laptop.

In other instances, the lawyer said, the agency seeks real-time transmission of data, which companies send digitally.

Twitter spokesmen did not respond to questions about the government requests, but said in general of the company’s philosophy toward information requests: Users “have a right to fight invalid government requests, and we stand with them in that fight.”

Twitter, Google and other companies have typically fought aggressively against requests they believe reach too far. Google, Microsoft and Twitter publish transparency reports detailing government requests for information, but these reports do not include FISA requests because they are not allowed to acknowledge them.

Yet since tech companies’ cooperation with the government was revealed Thursday, tech executives have been performing a familiar dance, expressing outrage at the extent of the government’s power to access personal data and calling for more transparency, while at the same time heaping praise upon the president as he visited Silicon Valley.

Even as the White House scrambled to defend its online surveillance, President Obama was mingling with donors at the Silicon Valley home of Mike McCue, Flipboard’s chief, eating dinner at the opulent home of Vinod Khosla, the venture capitalist, and cracking jokes about Mr. Khosla’s big, shaggy dogs.

On Friday, Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook’s chief executive, posted on Facebook a call for more government transparency. “It’s the only way to protect everyone’s civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term,” he wrote.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Memorex » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:28 am

Maybe it's time that everyone in this country realizes that no one is looking out for them any longer. Long gone are the days of politicians looking out for the good of all people. Have you seen a Republican or a Democrat take any action without an agenda in the last couple decades? Nope, but we sure have seen all of them sticking their noses in places they don't belong to further build power.

I never bought into the hope and hype of Obama because I've long known that he was just the other side of the same coin. Yes, I had wished some things would change and they didn't. The things I care about either didn't change or got much worse. And that was true under Bush as well.

We have become so angry and hateful based on political affiliation and doesn't everyone look like an idiot now that the last two presidents are basically the same individual?

The last x number of years have been about two things and two things only. Amassing as much power as possible and stopping the other side from doing the same. That's it. They only break from that model when they get together and collectively fuck us.

Somehow, the citizens of this country have to stand up and demand proper treatment based on our values. The fact that someone supports abortion and wants a Democrat to nominate the next Supreme Court Justice doesn't mean we have to give cover to them when they decide to record EVERY SINGLE THING we do. And just because someone does not believe in Gay Marriage and wants a Republican to nominate the next Justice doesn't mean we should give them a pass when they are the ones that started all this bullshit.

I have to tell you. I feel sorry for anyone if they still call themselves a Democrat or Republican. This country is being lost to both parties. It's time to let go of the hatred of your fellow man because he believes just 10% differently than you and tell all these politicians we have had enough.

I'd like to see a series of Amendments to the constitution that further strengthen the Bill of Rights. Things such as balanced budgets, restrictions on ever monitoring any individual that is just going about his or her business, defining a marriage as whatever two people say it is regardless of orientation, flat tax (get rid of the IRS), etc. Just let people live and work and not get killed on taxes.

I'm just talking. Maybe I don't know anything.
User avatar
Memorex
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:30 am

Memorex wrote:I'd like to see a series of Amendments to the constitution that further strengthen the Bill of Rights. Things such as balanced budgets, restrictions on ever monitoring any individual that is just going about his or her business, defining a marriage as whatever two people say it is regardless of orientation, flat tax (get rid of the IRS), etc. Just let people live and work and not get killed on taxes.


Thomas Jefferson once said; ‘The Government You Elect Is The Government You Deserve.’”

The Constitution is actually pretty good just the way it is.. and the last thing the Founders & Framers wanted was for the government to define morality. That is why the 10th Amendment exits, to force the states to not take the easy way out.

it's the immorality of the politicians sworn to protect the Constitution, who have allowed it to be subverted and abrogated that is a symptom of the problem. And it is that immorality that is a reflection of the people who elect them, and that is the core problem in this nation.

When the People have rightfully had enough, their morality will change.. as will the morality of the elected officials.

The only unknown will be how it changes.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:47 am

Image

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby The Sushi Hunter » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:18 pm

Reading in the news today, BOzo considers American's finding out that their private emails, phone records, etc. is an information leak and is in full gear looking for those responsible for this so called "leak". Wow......sort of like Hitler trying to find out who's telling the Jews that the German Army is targetting them.

This entire thing with BOzo is getting to be fucking stupid. I mean, ok, I laughed at first and it was the biggest joke, but now it's starting to not be so funny anymore.

What do you all think? Informing the American public that the American Government is secretly going through our emails, phone records, on-line google activities, etc, is a "leak"? Looks like this current administration is out to lynch the whistleblower(s).
I've never eaten a piece of sushi I didn't thoroughly enjoy.
User avatar
The Sushi Hunter
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:54 am
Location: Hidden Valley, Japan

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:49 pm

Shoot The PRISM-Gate Messenger: Obama To Launch Criminal Probe Into NSA Leaks

Suddenly embroiled in too many scandals to even list, and humiliated by a publicly-exposed (because everyone knew about the NSA superspy ambitions before, but with one major difference: it was a conspiracy theory.... now it is a conspiracy fact! surveillance scandal that makes Tricky Dick look like an amateur, earlier today, as expected, Obama came out and publicly declared "I am not a hacker" and mumbled something about "security", "privacy" and "inconvenience." He went on to explain how the government "welcomes the debate" of all three in the aftermath of the public disclosure that every form of electronic communication is intercepted and stored by the US government (now that said interception is no longer secret, of course) but more importantly how it is only the government, which is naturally here to help, that should be the ultimate arbiter in deciding what is best for all.

Yet the PRISM-gate scandal which is sure to only get worse with time as Americans slowly realize they are living in a Orwellian police state, meant Obama would have to do more to appease a public so furious even the NYT issued a scathing editorial lamenting the obliteration of Obama's credibility. Sure enough, the president did. Reuters reports that the first course of action by the US government will be to... shoot the messenger.

Reuters reports that "President Barack Obama's administration is likely to open a criminal investigation into the leaking of highly classified documents that revealed the secret surveillance of Americans' telephone and email traffic, U.S. officials said on Friday."

And how did Reuters learn this: from "law enforcement and security officials who were not authorized to speak publicly."

The mimetic absurdity of the narrative is just too surreal to even contemplate for more than a minute before bursting out in laughter: the administration's plans to launch criminal charges against those who "leaked" its Nixonian espionage masterplan involving every US (and world) citizen using the Internet, revealed by another group of sources leaking in secret. Pure poetry.

Of course, this was inevitable - once you start down the path of a totalitarian surveillance superstate, you don't stop until all dissent is crushed: either peacefully through submission to debt serfdom, or, well, not so peacefully.

It was unclear on Friday whether a complaint had been submitted by the publicity-shy National Security Agency, which was most directly involved in the collection of trillions of telephone and email communications.

However, one U.S. official with knowledge of the situation said that given the extent and sensitivity of the recent leaks, federal law may compel officials to open an investigation.

A criminal probe would represent another turn in the Obama administration's battle against national security leaks. This effort has been under scrutiny lately because of a Justice Department investigation that has involved searches of the phone records of Associated Press journalists and a Fox News reporter.


But what's worst, is that it may all turn very personal against the same journalists who dared to divulge the NSA's spy-op:

Journalists involved in The Guardian and Washington Post articles have reported in depth on WikiLeaks, the website known for publishing secret U.S. government documents.

The Post report on the PRISM program was co-written by Laura Poitras, a filmmaker who has been working on a documentary on WikiLeaks, with the cooperation of its founder Julian Assange, and who last year made a short film about Bill Binney, a former NSA employee who became a whistleblowing critic of the agency.

Last year, the web magazine Salon published a lengthy article by the author of the Guardian report, Glenn Greenwald, accusing U.S. authorities of harassing Poitras when she left and re-entered the United States. Greenwald also has written frequently about Assange.

The Guardian and Post stories appeared in the same week that U.S. Army Private First Class Bradley Manning went on trial in Maryland accused of leaking hundreds of thousands of classified documents to WikiLeaks.

In an email to Reuters on Friday, Poitras rejected the notion that the trial had any impact on the timing of her story.

"I am fully aware we are living in a political climate where national security reporting is being targeted by the government, however, I don't think fear should stop us from reporting these stories," Poitras wrote.

"To suggest that the timing of the NSA PRISM story is linked in any way to other events or stories I'm following is simply wrong. Like any journalist, I have many contacts and follow multiple stories."

Kris Coratti, a Washington Post spokeswoman, said the timing of the paper's publication of Poitras' story had nothing to do with Manning's trial and that Assange had played no role in arranging or encouraging the story.

Greenwald did not respond to emailed requests for comment. The Guardian's editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, declined to comment.


Needless to say, once political retribution for publicizing the nuances of the police state becomes a personal affair targeting the very journalists whose task is to provide much needed information, the first amendment is basically finished.

Alas, on the path to tyranny the loss of rights and privileges, let alone the occasional amendment written on a very old parchment and which nobody follows or cares about, is inevitable.

And it is up to the citizens of such a tyrannical government to reclaim their nation. Which they will... Just as soon as The Bachelorette/Big Brother (no pun intended)/X Factor is over and the next disability check clears.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby verslibre » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:09 pm

They're supposed to fear us, not the other way around.
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
verslibre
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 6873
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Memorex » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:41 pm

If collecting all of our phone records, emails, and website visits is so awesome in the war or terror, then why not publicize it? So this is supposed to help with predictive stuff and be there for a record. Great. Maybe I would think about making a threatening call to someone just before killed them. So publicize it. Cowards.
User avatar
Memorex
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:48 pm

slucero wrote:When the People have rightfully had enough, their morality will change.. as will the morality of the elected officials.


Question is by the time people feel they have had enough will people be able to change anything in our government?
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:59 pm

verslibre wrote:They're supposed to fear us, not the other way around.


That's just it, they do fear us. That's why they are doing all these things. Spying on the phone call we make, emails we send, our internet activity as well as trying to make it more increasingly difficult to obtain and keep firearms.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:01 pm

The Sushi Hunter wrote:Reading in the news today, BOzo considers American's finding out that their private emails, phone records, etc. is an information leak and is in full gear looking for those responsible for this so called "leak". Wow......sort of like Hitler trying to find out who's telling the Jews that the German Army is targetting them.

This entire thing with BOzo is getting to be fucking stupid. I mean, ok, I laughed at first and it was the biggest joke, but now it's starting to not be so funny anymore.

What do you all think? Informing the American public that the American Government is secretly going through our emails, phone records, on-line google activities, etc, is a "leak"? Looks like this current administration is out to lynch the whistleblower(s).


Careful there. A lot of people think comparing B.O. and his administration to Hitler or Nazi Germany is crazy talk.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby steveo777 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Boomchild wrote:
The Sushi Hunter wrote:Reading in the news today, BOzo considers American's finding out that their private emails, phone records, etc. is an information leak and is in full gear looking for those responsible for this so called "leak". Wow......sort of like Hitler trying to find out who's telling the Jews that the German Army is targetting them.

This entire thing with BOzo is getting to be fucking stupid. I mean, ok, I laughed at first and it was the biggest joke, but now it's starting to not be so funny anymore.

What do you all think? Informing the American public that the American Government is secretly going through our emails, phone records, on-line google activities, etc, is a "leak"? Looks like this current administration is out to lynch the whistleblower(s).


Careful there. A lot of people think comparing B.O. and his administration to Hitler or Nazi Germany is crazy talk.


It's unfolding right before our own eyes, for those who are not yet "awake".
User avatar
steveo777
MP3
 
Posts: 11311
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:15 pm
Location: Citrus Heights, Ca

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Memorex » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:04 am

User avatar
Memorex
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:57 am

Fact Finder wrote:


Holy shit? :?



Worth the watch and read.'


Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations
The 29-year-old source behind the biggest intelligence leak in the NSA's history explains his motives, his uncertain future and why he never intended on hiding in the shadows

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ju ... rveillance

The individual responsible for one of the most significant leaks in US political history is Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell.

The Guardian, after several days of interviews, is revealing his identity at his request. From the moment he decided to disclose numerous top-secret documents to the public, he was determined not to opt for the protection of anonymity. "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong," he said.

Snowden will go down in history as one of America's most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning. He is responsible for handing over material from one of the world's most secretive organisations – the NSA.

In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."

Despite his determination to be publicly unveiled, he repeatedly insisted that he wants to avoid the media spotlight. "I don't want public attention because I don't want the story to be about me. I want it to be about what the US government is doing."

He does not fear the consequences of going public, he said, only that doing so will distract attention from the issues raised by his disclosures. "I know the media likes to personalise political debates, and I know the government will demonise me."

Despite these fears, he remained hopeful his outing will not divert attention from the substance of his disclosures. "I really want the focus to be on these documents and the debate which I hope this will trigger among citizens around the globe about what kind of world we want to live in." He added: "My sole motive is to inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which is done against them."

He has had "a very comfortable life" that included a salary of roughly $200,000, a girlfriend with whom he shared a home in Hawaii, a stable career, and a family he loves. "I'm willing to sacrifice all of that because I can't in good conscience allow the US government to destroy privacy, internet freedom and basic liberties for people around the world with this massive surveillance machine they're secretly building."
'I am not afraid, because this is the choice I've made'

Three weeks ago, Snowden made final preparations that resulted in last week's series of blockbuster news stories. At the NSA office in Hawaii where he was working, he copied the last set of documents he intended to disclose.

He then advised his NSA supervisor that he needed to be away from work for "a couple of weeks" in order to receive treatment for epilepsy, a condition he learned he suffers from after a series of seizures last year.

As he packed his bags, he told his girlfriend that he had to be away for a few weeks, though he said he was vague about the reason. "That is not an uncommon occurrence for someone who has spent the last decade working in the intelligence world."

On May 20, he boarded a flight to Hong Kong, where he has remained ever since. He chose the city because "they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent", and because he believed that it was one of the few places in the world that both could and would resist the dictates of the US government.

In the three weeks since he arrived, he has been ensconced in a hotel room. "I've left the room maybe a total of three times during my entire stay," he said. It is a plush hotel and, what with eating meals in his room too, he has run up big bills.

He is deeply worried about being spied on. He lines the door of his hotel room with pillows to prevent eavesdropping. He puts a large red hood over his head and laptop when entering his passwords to prevent any hidden cameras from detecting them.

Though that may sound like paranoia to some, Snowden has good reason for such fears. He worked in the US intelligence world for almost a decade. He knows that the biggest and most secretive surveillance organisation in America, the NSA, along with the most powerful government on the planet, is looking for him.

Since the disclosures began to emerge, he has watched television and monitored the internet, hearing all the threats and vows of prosecution emanating from Washington.

And he knows only too well the sophisticated technology available to them and how easy it will be for them to find him. The NSA police and other law enforcement officers have twice visited his home in Hawaii and already contacted his girlfriend, though he believes that may have been prompted by his absence from work, and not because of suspicions of any connection to the leaks.

"All my options are bad," he said. The US could begin extradition proceedings against him, a potentially problematic, lengthy and unpredictable course for Washington. Or the Chinese government might whisk him away for questioning, viewing him as a useful source of information. Or he might end up being grabbed and bundled into a plane bound for US territory.

"Yes, I could be rendered by the CIA. I could have people come after me. Or any of the third-party partners. They work closely with a number of other nations. Or they could pay off the Triads. Any of their agents or assets," he said.

"We have got a CIA station just up the road – the consulate here in Hong Kong – and I am sure they are going to be busy for the next week. And that is a concern I will live with for the rest of my life, however long that happens to be."

Having watched the Obama administration prosecute whistleblowers at a historically unprecedented rate, he fully expects the US government to attempt to use all its weight to punish him. "I am not afraid," he said calmly, "because this is the choice I've made."

He predicts the government will launch an investigation and "say I have broken the Espionage Act and helped our enemies, but that can be used against anyone who points out how massive and invasive the system has become".

The only time he became emotional during the many hours of interviews was when he pondered the impact his choices would have on his family, many of whom work for the US government. "The only thing I fear is the harmful effects on my family, who I won't be able to help any more. That's what keeps me up at night," he said, his eyes welling up with tears.
'You can't wait around for someone else to act'

Snowden did not always believe the US government posed a threat to his political values. He was brought up originally in Elizabeth City, North Carolina. His family moved later to Maryland, near the NSA headquarters in Fort Meade.

By his own admission, he was not a stellar student. In order to get the credits necessary to obtain a high school diploma, he attended a community college in Maryland, studying computing, but never completed the coursework. (He later obtained his GED.)

In 2003, he enlisted in the US army and began a training program to join the Special Forces. Invoking the same principles that he now cites to justify his leaks, he said: "I wanted to fight in the Iraq war because I felt like I had an obligation as a human being to help free people from oppression".

He recounted how his beliefs about the war's purpose were quickly dispelled. "Most of the people training us seemed pumped up about killing Arabs, not helping anyone," he said. After he broke both his legs in a training accident, he was discharged.

After that, he got his first job in an NSA facility, working as a security guard for one of the agency's covert facilities at the University of Maryland. From there, he went to the CIA, where he worked on IT security. His understanding of the internet and his talent for computer programming enabled him to rise fairly quickly for someone who lacked even a high school diploma.

By 2007, the CIA stationed him with diplomatic cover in Geneva, Switzerland. His responsibility for maintaining computer network security meant he had clearance to access a wide array of classified documents.

That access, along with the almost three years he spent around CIA officers, led him to begin seriously questioning the rightness of what he saw.

He described as formative an incident in which he claimed CIA operatives were attempting to recruit a Swiss banker to obtain secret banking information. Snowden said they achieved this by purposely getting the banker drunk and encouraging him to drive home in his car. When the banker was arrested for drunk driving, the undercover agent seeking to befriend him offered to help, and a bond was formed that led to successful recruitment.

"Much of what I saw in Geneva really disillusioned me about how my government functions and what its impact is in the world," he says. "I realised that I was part of something that was doing far more harm than good."

He said it was during his CIA stint in Geneva that he thought for the first time about exposing government secrets. But, at the time, he chose not to for two reasons.

First, he said: "Most of the secrets the CIA has are about people, not machines and systems, so I didn't feel comfortable with disclosures that I thought could endanger anyone". Secondly, the election of Barack Obama in 2008 gave him hope that there would be real reforms, rendering disclosures unnecessary.

He left the CIA in 2009 in order to take his first job working for a private contractor that assigned him to a functioning NSA facility, stationed on a military base in Japan. It was then, he said, that he "watched as Obama advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in", and as a result, "I got hardened."

The primary lesson from this experience was that "you can't wait around for someone else to act. I had been looking for leaders, but I realised that leadership is about being the first to act."

Over the next three years, he learned just how all-consuming the NSA's surveillance activities were, claiming "they are intent on making every conversation and every form of behaviour in the world known to them".

He described how he once viewed the internet as "the most important invention in all of human history". As an adolescent, he spent days at a time "speaking to people with all sorts of views that I would never have encountered on my own".

But he believed that the value of the internet, along with basic privacy, is being rapidly destroyed by ubiquitous surveillance. "I don't see myself as a hero," he said, "because what I'm doing is self-interested: I don't want to live in a world where there's no privacy and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity."

Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What they're doing" poses "an existential threat to democracy", he said.
A matter of principle

As strong as those beliefs are, there still remains the question: why did he do it? Giving up his freedom and a privileged lifestyle? "There are more important things than money. If I were motivated by money, I could have sold these documents to any number of countries and gotten very rich."

For him, it is a matter of principle. "The government has granted itself power it is not entitled to. There is no public oversight. The result is people like myself have the latitude to go further than they are allowed to," he said.

His allegiance to internet freedom is reflected in the stickers on his laptop: "I support Online Rights: Electronic Frontier Foundation," reads one. Another hails the online organisation offering anonymity, the Tor Project.

Asked by reporters to establish his authenticity to ensure he is not some fantasist, he laid bare, without hesitation, his personal details, from his social security number to his CIA ID and his expired diplomatic passport. There is no shiftiness. Ask him about anything in his personal life and he will answer.

He is quiet, smart, easy-going and self-effacing. A master on computers, he seemed happiest when talking about the technical side of surveillance, at a level of detail comprehensible probably only to fellow communication specialists. But he showed intense passion when talking about the value of privacy and how he felt it was being steadily eroded by the behaviour of the intelligence services.

His manner was calm and relaxed but he has been understandably twitchy since he went into hiding, waiting for the knock on the hotel door. A fire alarm goes off. "That has not happened before," he said, betraying anxiety wondering if was real, a test or a CIA ploy to get him out onto the street.

Strewn about the side of his bed are his suitcase, a plate with the remains of room-service breakfast, and a copy of Angler, the biography of former vice-president Dick Cheney.

Ever since last week's news stories began to appear in the Guardian, Snowden has vigilantly watched TV and read the internet to see the effects of his choices. He seemed satisfied that the debate he longed to provoke was finally taking place.

He lay, propped up against pillows, watching CNN's Wolf Blitzer ask a discussion panel about government intrusion if they had any idea who the leaker was. From 8,000 miles away, the leaker looked on impassively, not even indulging in a wry smile.

Snowden said that he admires both Ellsberg and Manning, but argues that there is one important distinction between himself and the army private, whose trial coincidentally began the week Snowden's leaks began to make news.

"I carefully evaluated every single document I disclosed to ensure that each was legitimately in the public interest," he said. "There are all sorts of documents that would have made a big impact that I didn't turn over, because harming people isn't my goal. Transparency is."

He purposely chose, he said, to give the documents to journalists whose judgment he trusted about what should be public and what should remain concealed.

As for his future, he is vague. He hoped the publicity the leaks have generated will offer him some protection, making it "harder for them to get dirty".

He views his best hope as the possibility of asylum, with Iceland – with its reputation of a champion of internet freedom – at the top of his list. He knows that may prove a wish unfulfilled.

But after the intense political controversy he has already created with just the first week's haul of stories, "I feel satisfied that this was all worth it. I have no regrets."


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:14 am

One thing is for sure..

Folks who called Bush "anti-freedom"... have no place to call Obama any less.. and a very good case could be made that Obama is turning out to be far worse.

This country needs to wake up and realize just how intrusive the government has become under these two fucktard Presidents...
Last edited by slucero on Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:45 am

:lol:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby verslibre » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:53 am

The gestapo already stopped by to check for him? How about that!
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
verslibre
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 6873
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby verslibre » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:14 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"Heer's ta swimmen wid bowlegged wimmen!"
verslibre
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 6873
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:55 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:44 pm

LMAO.... maybe Congress will finally get pissed about this.. after all, according to Obama... they are only capturing call duration and the numbers calling.. :wink:

Snooping Concerns Emerge Over Congressional Blackberries Serviced By Verizon

Amid the revelations that the National Security Agency has been secretly monitoring the records of millions of phone calls across the country via telephone service provider Verizon, Congress is concerned that the NSA's actions may have also captured phone calls of lawmakers and their staffers. It should be noted that Verizon is one of the main service providers to government issued Blackberries members and their staff use to communicate with one another.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby slucero » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:55 pm

Obama on Surveillance, Then and Now

Throughout his Senate career, Barack Obama was a fierce critic of surveillance efforts in the Patriot Act, and he vowed during the 2008 presidential campaign to end “illegal wiretapping,” casting the question of liberty versus security as a “false choice.” But over his years in the White House, Mr. Obama has increasingly spoken of needing to “make some choices as a society,” as he did on Friday when he addressed revelations about data collection of phone and Internet records by the National Security Agency.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013 ... .html?_r=0

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


~Albert Einstein
User avatar
slucero
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:17 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:05 pm

steveo777 wrote:
It's unfolding right before our own eyes, for those who are not yet "awake".


The problem is people just have the mindset that something like this can't happen in America. They must feel that since we have a constitution, bill of rights and have "free" elections that it can't be changed or circumvented.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:09 pm

slucero wrote:
Obama on Surveillance, Then and Now

Throughout his Senate career, Barack Obama was a fierce critic of surveillance efforts in the Patriot Act, and he vowed during the 2008 presidential campaign to end “illegal wiretapping,” casting the question of liberty versus security as a “false choice.” But over his years in the White House, Mr. Obama has increasingly spoken of needing to “make some choices as a society,” as he did on Friday when he addressed revelations about data collection of phone and Internet records by the National Security Agency.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013 ... .html?_r=0


I guess people are having a hard time grasping what B.O. meant by saying he wants to "fundamentally change" America.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
User avatar
Boomchild
Compact Disc
 
Posts: 7129
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:10 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby Memorex » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:35 pm

Why should congress care about the phone records. They have been briefed and have some oversight. And shouldn;t the concern be on all Americans, not just those bending us over?
User avatar
Memorex
Stereo LP
 
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: President Barack Obama - Term Two Thread

Postby steveo777 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:31 pm

I wish we had a poll back when BO was first elected and one now, to see how many people then and now think he's a good president. I'd bet that far less people today consider him a good president. The media will not give us accurate approval ratings. I just can't see how he could have high "real" approval ratings with all the shenanigans of late. Who knows how to make a poll here?
User avatar
steveo777
MP3
 
Posts: 11311
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:15 pm
Location: Citrus Heights, Ca

PreviousNext

Return to Snowmobiles For The Sahara

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests