President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[slucero]

Obama appears to be following the Bush playbook for getting us into a new war in Syria...

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Obama appears to be following the Bush playbook for getting us into a new war in Syria...

yes, its not about Syria though. Syria is getting arms from Iran. We get in a fight with Syria, we have an excuse to get in a fight with Iran. Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Samantha Power, Suzie Rice and all the rest of the Wilsonian make em free and happy at the point of a gun crowd are counting on this as their way to get in a war with Iran. Of course Syria is not a case of good guys vs bad guys. Its guys who are definitely bad guys (Assad) vs guys who we don't know who they are or how bad they are. but are likely pretty danm evil. So more American (and probably British) heroes get lose their lives or have their lives ruined so we can referee in a scrap between evil and evil. Fucking stupid.

some sensible analyisis right here

http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/05/09/brze ... -it-worse/

[Rick]

This was funny.

[verslibre]

[The Sushi Hunter]

Yes, funny. But to those select individuals who did something stupid like took pix of themselves naked and/or in very private positions, they must be fuming right now because of the "data collection". There has to be millions of people who have done this, I know at least a few. One such example is: a few years ago I rode the Stenniss from Hawaii to San Diego and through some people I know on the ship, I had access to much of the "gory details" in regards to what was taking place. There were a few chicks along with a few guys going to captain's mast, during the two weeks that I was on the ship, because of taking cell phone pix of their "junk" and sending it to others on the ship. Some got caught because a tattoo was also in the pic which they could positivily identify who's "junk" pic it belonged to who. There are all types of knuckleheads out there doing this from all corners of society. Those are the ones, along with people involved in terrirst and/or criminal activities who are most up in arms about this current "Big Bro" issue.

[Boomchild]

Obama appears to be following the Bush playbook for getting us into a new war in Syria...

And just what interests or investments do we have in Syria? To the best of my knowledge there are none. In my opinion, I think they need to fight their own civil war.

[slucero]

Obama appears to be following the Bush playbook for getting us into a new war in Syria...

And just what interests or investments do we have in Syria? To the best of my knowledge there are none. In my opinion, I think they need to fight their own civil war.

Read Gin and Tonic Sky's post a few posts up...

[Memorex]

Well, I think there is interest in people not gassing each other to death. There comes a time when the big kids have to show up and send everyone to their corner.

[steveo777]

Obama's Muslim agenda might be one reason for our involvment in Syria. Do a scan of his cabinet and what their interests are. Take a look at Valerie Jerrett. There is a way larger picture of what will transpire than most people see.

[Memorex]

Glen Beck supposedly really has something this time. News within 24 hours that will bring down the entire power structure. The whistleblower claims he is "dead".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Qkd0J58HAE

Still waiting on this big revelation....
Not sure why this guy has any fans left. He has pulled this stunt repeatedly.
Total plagiarist, snake salesman, hack, flim-flam artist.

Well if this is the story, then it's not much of a story. It's what some suggested on day 1 of the Obamacare ruling. Suggesting a justice was intimidated by the Administration's public tactics is just a touch different than saying he was bribed with information gathered by the NSA.

The story in itself should be heard and if any justice makes decisions based on anything other than the constitution, they should be scrutinized.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/18/was-justice-roberts-intimidated-into-voting-for-obamacare-senator-mike-lee-presents-the-evidence/

That said, this has nothing to do with whistleblower stuff and anyone that wants to speak only in front of congress, so maybe this issue isn't the same as the one Beck was hinting about and never seems to have followed up on.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Obviously there was no story. Just a bs job, as suspected.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Wow, interesting in the news today. Drones have been and are being used in America for civilian surveillance purposes. Didn't know this was being done, thought that was something possible at a later date however. Looks like that later date has come. What's anyone's feel about this?

[slucero]

[Memorex]

Wow, interesting in the news today. Drones have been and are being used in America for civilian surveillance purposes. Didn't know this was being done, thought that was something possible at a later date however. Looks like that later date has come. What's anyone's feel about this?

I don't like the idea that the FBI will hold on to the data. I get that when I am walking in public, I will be on camera and I really have no privacy. But when I am in my own back yard, I have the right to privacy and if the FBI is watching my neighbor, it seems like a violation of my rights that I will be on tape stored for a long time.

I don't have too much of an issue with the drone itself if it followed a strict set of guidelines.

For someone like me that generally does nothing wrong, I sure get worked up over this stuff. It's just the idea of it all. It just gets worse and worse.

[slucero]

wonderful..

[The Sushi Hunter]

Remote garage doors opening randomly......seems like I saw this same thing on an episode of Bewitched, I dream of Jeannie or The Twilight Zone....can't completely recall which show it was on.

NSA = No Such Agency.

[steveo777]

Remote garage doors opening randomly......seems like I saw this same thing on an episode of Bewitched, I dream of Jeannie or The Twilight Zone....can't completely recall which show it was on.

NSA = No Such Agency.

Oh, it's real. They have a microscope up your ass as I type this. Can't you feel it?

[Boomchild]

Wow, interesting in the news today. Drones have been and are being used in America for civilian surveillance purposes. Didn't know this was being done, thought that was something possible at a later date however. Looks like that later date has come. What's anyone's feel about this?

My feeling is it doesn't really matter how I or any other American feels about it. In the state our government is in, their going to do what ever they want to do. There isn't much we can really do about it at this point in time. It seems to me the government is just going to get more intrusive all in the name of "our safety".

[The Sushi Hunter]

Remote garage doors opening randomly......seems like I saw this same thing on an episode of Bewitched, I dream of Jeannie or The Twilight Zone....can't completely recall which show it was on.

NSA = No Such Agency.

Oh, it's real. They have a microscope up your ass as I type this. Can't you feel it?

I remember it now, it was on an episode of Bewitched. Shotty electric garage door installers put it in wrong and so everytime a jet would come in on final approach, the door would open and close. The husband though Sam his wife who is a witch was doing it and it was causing issues with their marrage and the neighbors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVljYnwZOaE

[slucero]

The lies just keep getting bigger..

Revealed: the top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant
Fisa court submissions show broad scope of procedures governing NSA's surveillance of Americans' communication


Document one: procedures used by NSA to target non-US persons:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interac ... a-document

Document two: procedures used by NSA to minimise data collected from US persons:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interac ... s-document


Top secret documents submitted to the court that oversees surveillance by US intelligence agencies show the judges have signed off on broad orders which allow the NSA to make use of information "inadvertently" collected from domestic US communications without a warrant.

The Guardian is publishing in full two documents submitted to the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (known as the Fisa court), signed by Attorney General Eric Holder and stamped 29 July 2009. They detail the procedures the NSA is required to follow to target "non-US persons" under its foreign intelligence powers and what the agency does to minimize data collected on US citizens and residents in the course of that surveillance.

The documents show that even under authorities governing the collection of foreign intelligence from foreign targets, US communications can still be collected, retained and used.

The procedures cover only part of the NSA's surveillance of domestic US communications. The bulk collection of domestic call records, as first revealed by the Guardian earlier this month, takes place under rolling court orders issued on the basis of a legal interpretation of a different authority, section 215 of the Patriot Act.

The Fisa court's oversight role has been referenced many times by Barack Obama and senior intelligence officials as they have sought to reassure the public about surveillance, but the procedures approved by the court have never before been publicly disclosed.

The top secret documents published today detail the circumstances in which data collected on US persons under the foreign intelligence authority must be destroyed, extensive steps analysts must take to try to check targets are outside the US, and reveals how US call records are used to help remove US citizens and residents from data collection.

However, alongside those provisions, the Fisa court-approved policies allow the NSA to:

• Keep data that could potentially contain details of US persons for up to five years;
  
• Retain and make use of "inadvertently acquired" domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;
  
• Preserve "foreign intelligence information" contained within attorney-client communications;
  
• Access the content of communications gathered from "U.S. based machine[s]" or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.

The broad scope of the court orders, and the nature of the procedures set out in the documents, appear to clash with assurances from President Obama and senior intelligence officials that the NSA could not access Americans' call or email information without warrants.

The documents also show that discretion as to who is actually targeted under the NSA's foreign surveillance powers lies directly with its own analysts, without recourse to courts or superiors – though a percentage of targeting decisions are reviewed by internal audit teams on a regular basis.

Since the Guardian first revealed the extent of the NSA's collection of US communications, there have been repeated calls for the legal basis of the programs to be released. On Thursday, two US congressmen introduced a bill compelling the Obama administration to declassify the secret legal justifications for NSA surveillance.

The disclosure bill, sponsored by Adam Schiff, a California Democrat, and Todd Rokita, an Indiana Republican, is a complement to one proposed in the Senate last week. It would "increase the transparency of the Fisa Court and the state of the law in this area," Schiff told the Guardian. "It would give the public a better understanding of the safeguards, as well as the scope of these programs."

Section 702 of the Fisa Amendments Act (FAA), which was renewed for five years last December, is the authority under which the NSA is allowed to collect large-scale data, including foreign communications and also communications between the US and other countries, provided the target is overseas.

FAA warrants are issued by the Fisa court for up to 12 months at a time, and authorise the collection of bulk information – some of which can include communications of US citizens, or people inside the US. To intentionally target either of those groups requires an individual warrant.


One-paragraph order

One such warrant seen by the Guardian shows that they do not contain detailed legal rulings or explanation. Instead, the one-paragraph order, signed by a Fisa court judge in 2010, declares that the procedures submitted by the attorney general on behalf of the NSA are consistent with US law and the fourth amendment.

Those procedures state that the "NSA determines whether a person is a non-United States person reasonably believed to be outside the United States in light of the totality of the circumstances based on the information available with respect to that person, including information concerning the communications facility or facilities used by that person".

It includes information that the NSA analyst uses to make this determination - including IP addresses, statements made by the potential target, and other information in the NSA databases, which can include public information and data collected by other agencies.

Where the NSA has no specific information on a person's location, analysts are free to presume they are overseas, the document continues.

"In the absence of specific information regarding whether a target is a United States person," it states "a person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States or whose location is not known will be presumed to be a non-United States person unless such person can be positively identified as a United States person."

If it later appears that a target is in fact located in the US, analysts are permitted to look at the content of messages, or listen to phone calls, to establish if this is indeed the case.

Referring to steps taken to prevent intentional collection of telephone content of those inside the US, the document states: "NSA analysts may analyze content for indications that a foreign target has entered or intends to enter the United States. Such content analysis will be conducted according to analytic and intelligence requirements and priorities."

Details set out in the "minimization procedures", regularly referred to in House and Senate hearings, as well as public statements in recent weeks, also raise questions as to the extent of monitoring of US citizens and residents.

NSA minimization procedures signed by Holder in 2009 set out that once a target is confirmed to be within the US, interception must stop immediately. However, these circumstances do not apply to large-scale data where the NSA claims it is unable to filter US communications from non-US ones.

The NSA is empowered to retain data for up to five years and the policy states "communications which may be retained include electronic communications acquired because of limitations on the NSA's ability to filter communications".

Even if upon examination a communication is found to be domestic – entirely within the US – the NSA can appeal to its director to keep what it has found if it contains "significant foreign intelligence information", "evidence of a crime", "technical data base information" (such as encrypted communications), or "information pertaining to a threat of serious harm to life or property".

Domestic communications containing none of the above must be destroyed. Communications in which one party was outside the US, but the other is a US-person, are permitted for retention under FAA rules.

The minimization procedure adds that these can be disseminated to other agencies or friendly governments if the US person is anonymised, or including the US person's identity under certain criteria.

A separate section of the same document notes that as soon as any intercepted communications are determined to have been between someone under US criminal indictment and their attorney, surveillance must stop. However, the material collected can be retained, if it is useful, though in a segregated database:

"The relevant portion of the communication containing that conversation will be segregated and the National Security Division of the Department of Justice will be notified so that appropriate procedures may be established to protect such communications from review or use in any criminal prosecution, while preserving foreign intelligence information contained therein," the document states.

In practice, much of the decision-making appears to lie with NSA analysts, rather than the Fisa court or senior officials.

A transcript of a 2008 briefing on FAA from the NSA's general counsel sets out how much discretion NSA analysts possess when it comes to the specifics of targeting, and making decisions on who they believe is a non-US person. Referring to a situation where there has been a suggestion a target is within the US.

"Once again, the standard here is a reasonable belief that your target is outside the United States. What does that mean when you get information that might lead you to believe the contrary? It means you can't ignore it. You can't turn a blind eye to somebody saying: 'Hey, I think so and so is in the United States.' You can't ignore that. Does it mean you have to completely turn off collection the minute you hear that? No, it means you have to do some sort of investigation: 'Is that guy right? Is my target here?" he says.

"But, if everything else you have says 'no' (he talked yesterday, I saw him on TV yesterday, even, depending on the target, he was in Baghdad) you can still continue targeting but you have to keep that in mind. You can't put it aside. You have to investigate it and, once again, with that new information in mind, what is your reasonable belief about your target's location?"

The broad nature of the court's oversight role, and the discretion given to NSA analysts, sheds light on responses from the administration and internet companies to the Guardian's disclosure of the PRISM program. They have stated that the content of online communications is turned over to the NSA only pursuant to a court order. But except when a US citizen is specifically targeted, the court orders used by the NSA to obtain that information as part of Prism are these general FAA orders, not individualized warrants specific to any individual.

Once armed with these general orders, the NSA is empowered to compel telephone and internet companies to turn over to it the communications of any individual identified by the NSA. The Fisa court plays no role in the selection of those individuals, nor does it monitor who is selected by the NSA.

The NSA's ability to collect and retain the communications of people in the US, even without a warrant, has fuelled congressional demands for an estimate of how many Americans have been caught up in surveillance.

Two US senators, Ron Wyden and Mark Udall – both members of the Senate intelligence committee – have been seeking this information since 2011, but senior White House and intelligence officials have repeatedly insisted that the agency is unable to gather such statistics.

[Archetype]

So much for hope, change and progress:

http://rt.com/usa/snowden-charged-espionage-sealed-092/

[Don]

I guess Snowden will be trading in his blue passport for Mao's little red book now. Good riddance. The guy went from potential whistle blower to a full on media whore.

[slucero]

I wonder if Obama is gonna have 2nd thoughts about all the bullshit he's been spewing defending the NSA spying.. once this revelation gets validated..

Russ Tice, Bush-Era Whistleblower, Claims NSA Ordered Wiretap Of Barack Obama In 2004
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/2 ... 73538.html


Russ Tice, a former intelligence analyst who in 2005 blew the whistle on what he alleged was massive unconstitutional domestic spying across multiple agencies, claimed Wednesday that the NSA had ordered wiretaps on phones connected to then-Senate candidate Barack Obama in 2004.

Speaking on "The Boiling Frogs Show," Tice claimed the intelligence community had ordered surveillance on a wide range of groups and individuals, including high-ranking military officials, lawmakers and diplomats.

"Here's the big one ... this was in summer of 2004, one of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with a 40-something-year-old wannabe senator for Illinois," he said. "You wouldn't happen to know where that guy lives right now would you? It's a big white house in Washington, D.C. That's who they went after, and that's the president of the United States now."

Host Sibel Edmonds and Tice both raised concerns that such alleged monitoring of subjects, unbeknownst to them, could provide the intelligence agencies with huge power to blackmail their targets.

"I was worried that the intelligence community now has sway over what is going on," Tice said.

After going public with his allegations in 2005, Tice later admitted that he had been a key source in a bombshell New York Times report that blew the lid off the Bush administration's use of warrantless wiretapping of international communications in the U.S. The article forced Bush to admit that the practice was indeed used on a small number of Americans, but Tice maintained that the NSA practice was likely being used the gather records for millions of Americans. The NSA denied Tice's allegations.

In the wake of recent reports detailing the extent of the NSA's data surveillance programs, Tice has again come out as a skeptic of the administration's response. While defenders of the program have insisted that there is nothing to suggest the government has the authority -- or desire -- to listen in on people's phone calls without a warrant, Tice told The Guardian that he believes the NSA has developed the capability "to collect all digital communications word for word."

[steveo777]

I guess Snowden will be trading in his blue passport for Mao's little red book now. Good riddance. The guy went from potential whistle blower to a full on media whore.

I have more respect for him than the liar in chief we have running our country. At least snowden was trying to do something good and that is to expose "big brother" for what it is. He saw bullshit and called it. Like him, I'm tired of all the cover ups and lying that Americans are being fed on a daily basis. Sorry if you don't see it my way. He blew the whistle and told the truth. Some people can't handle the truth! Is it any wonder that the real wrong doers want to bring him back to the states and try him for a crime? I say those same ones who want to try him should be on trial themselves!!!! This administration is corrupt through and through.

[Don]

I guess Snowden will be trading in his blue passport for Mao's little red book now. Good riddance. The guy went from potential whistle blower to a full on media whore.

I have more respect for him than the liar in chief we have running our country. At least snowden was trying to do something good and that is to expose "big brother" for what it is. He saw bullshit and called it. Like him, I'm tired of all the cover ups and lying that Americans are being fed on a daily basis. Sorry if you don't see it my way. He blew the whistle and told the truth. Some people can't handle the truth! Is it any wonder that the real wrong doers want to bring him back to the states and try him for a crime? I say those same ones who want to try him should be on trial themselves!!!! This administration is corrupt through and through.

What he reported was already out there since 2009 when Amnesty international tried to sue the government over it. He ran away to freakin' China, the same country that sent people to re-education camps a few years ago for not wanting to give up their land to the Beijing olympic committee. The guy is a narcissist who has been trying to have his 15 minutes of fame. This administration? Sorry, this was put in place during the prior administration. Both Parties are culpable in this if fingers are going to be pointed.

[Don]

As much as people rail against Obama, this is on republicans more so than anybody. This election saw the lowest percentage turnout of white republican voters in long time. They didn't like the black guy but because they didn't want a mormon in there either or were butthurt because Paul didn't get the nomination they decided not to exercise their right to vote at all then. By not voting (due to their prejudices against Romney's religion or issues with his policies) that is cause for forfeit in any involvement in arguing about what is going on here.
I voted for Romney but unfortunately many others sat on the sidelines this election so fuck them.

[steveo777]

As much as people rail against Obama, this is on republicans more so than anybody. This election saw the lowest percentage turnout of white republican voters in long time. They didn't like the black guy but because they didn't want a mormon in there either or were butthurt because Paul didn't get the nomination they decided not to exercise their right to vote at all then. By not voting (due to their prejudices against Romney's religion or issues with his policies) that is cause for forfeit in any involvement in arguing about what is going on here.
I voted for Romney but unfortunately many others sat on the sidelines this election so fuck them.

And, you finally coughed it up. That was a large fur ball, my friend. I voted for Romney too!

[Don]

As much as people rail against Obama, this is on republicans more so than anybody. This election saw the lowest percentage turnout of white republican voters in long time. They didn't like the black guy but because they didn't want a mormon in there either or were butthurt because Paul didn't get the nomination they decided not to exercise their right to vote at all then. By not voting (due to their prejudices against Romney's religion or issues with his policies) that is cause for forfeit in any involvement in arguing about what is going on here.
I voted for Romney but unfortunately many others sat on the sidelines this election so fuck them.

And, you finally coughed it up. That was a large fur ball, my friend. I voted for Romney too!

Unfortunately, a lot of folk here judging by their posts claimed they were independents and didn't vote in all probability. As I said here on election day. If you live near me, I will drive you to the polls. I don't care if you vote for Obama, Romney or the Nazi party, JUST EXERCISE YOUR RIGHTS AND VOTE. You don't throw away your rights because you want to protest over not liking the candidates. It's asinine and unAmerican.

[Liam]

Ghost votes and illegal aliens got this son of a bitch reelected. Hope he gets bitten by a puff adder when he's in Africa.

[No Surprize]

I guess Snowden will be trading in his blue passport for Mao's little red book now. Good riddance. The guy went from potential whistle blower to a full on media whore.

I have more respect for him than the liar in chief we have running our country. At least snowden was trying to do something good and that is to expose "big brother" for what it is. He saw bullshit and called it. Like him, I'm tired of all the cover ups and lying that Americans are being fed on a daily basis. Sorry if you don't see it my way. He blew the whistle and told the truth. Some people can't handle the truth! Is it any wonder that the real wrong doers want to bring him back to the states and try him for a crime? I say those same ones who want to try him should be on trial themselves!!!! This administration is corrupt through and through.

How true, couldn't have said it better. What needs to be done is a entire dismantling of the way the government is set up. WAY fucking to many senators, WAY to many legislators, WAY to many departments. WAY to much red tape. Stay OUT & away from other countries. Mind our own business here. Fuck N. Korea, Fuck Iran, Fuck Syria. The military should be on a budget, just like anyone else. This is how much you get per year, not a penny more. The only thing we need to do is shore up our own borders to keep people out.