President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Memorex]

Obama says it best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7BmdovYztH8#at=64

[slucero]

I guess Snowden will be trading in his blue passport for Mao's little red book now. Good riddance. The guy went from potential whistle blower to a full on media whore.

I have more respect for him than the liar in chief we have running our country. At least snowden was trying to do something good and that is to expose "big brother" for what it is. He saw bullshit and called it. Like him, I'm tired of all the cover ups and lying that Americans are being fed on a daily basis. Sorry if you don't see it my way. He blew the whistle and told the truth. Some people can't handle the truth! Is it any wonder that the real wrong doers want to bring him back to the states and try him for a crime? I say those same ones who want to try him should be on trial themselves!!!! This administration is corrupt through and through.

How true, couldn't have said it better. What needs to be done is a entire dismantling of the way the government is set up. WAY fucking to many senators, WAY to many legislators, WAY to many departments. WAY to much red tape. Stay OUT & away from other countries. Mind our own business here. Fuck N. Korea, Fuck Iran, Fuck Syria. The military should be on a budget, just like anyone else. This is how much you get per year, not a penny more. The only thing we need to do is shore up our own borders to keep people out.

Maybe instead just follow the Constitution... all the rest would follow...

[Boomchild]

As much as people rail against Obama, this is on republicans more so than anybody. This election saw the lowest percentage turnout of white republican voters in long time. They didn't like the black guy but because they didn't want a mormon in there either or were butthurt because Paul didn't get the nomination they decided not to exercise their right to vote at all then. By not voting (due to their prejudices against Romney's religion or issues with his policies) that is cause for forfeit in any involvement in arguing about what is going on here.
I voted for Romney but unfortunately many others sat on the sidelines this election so fuck them.

I have often talked with people that are upset about the current state of our government and come to find out that they didn't vote in elections for years. I agree, if you don't vote then how can you complain about it.

[Boomchild]

I guess Snowden will be trading in his blue passport for Mao's little red book now. Good riddance. The guy went from potential whistle blower to a full on media whore.

I have more respect for him than the liar in chief we have running our country. At least snowden was trying to do something good and that is to expose "big brother" for what it is. He saw bullshit and called it. Like him, I'm tired of all the cover ups and lying that Americans are being fed on a daily basis. Sorry if you don't see it my way. He blew the whistle and told the truth. Some people can't handle the truth! Is it any wonder that the real wrong doers want to bring him back to the states and try him for a crime? I say those same ones who want to try him should be on trial themselves!!!! This administration is corrupt through and through.

It's one thing to be a whistle blower to the American people and it is another thing to share classified information with foreign countries. If it turns out that he has shared classified information with China other then what he has released to the press that is unacceptable.

[Memorex]

I'm glad he's blowing the whole thing up. It needs it desperately. Someone needs to shine a light on that hell hole we call Washington DC.

But - dude needs to quit running and face the charges. He broke the law, plain and simple. I do not wish for his escape. I want to see him in front of congress testifying on every single thing he knows.

[Don]

Snowden goes from China to Moscow, where he gets picked up by the Embassy staff for Venezuela. Next is a stop over flight in Cuba before he gets to Ecuador. What happened with his initial plans to go to Iceland (where there is no extradition treaty with the U.S.)?

Dude is bleeding Commie red hard at this point.

[slucero]

Snowden goes from China to Moscow, where he gets picked up by the Embassy staff for Venezuela. Next is a stop over flight in Cuba before he gets to Ecuador. What happened with his initial plans to go to Iceland (where there is no extradition treaty with the U.S.)?

Dude is bleeding Commie red hard at this point.

Nah... he's just getting some sight-seeing in before he winds up in perma-exile...

[Boomchild]

I'm glad he's blowing the whole thing up. It needs it desperately. Someone needs to shine a light on that hell hole we call Washington DC.

But - dude needs to quit running and face the charges. He broke the law, plain and simple. I do not wish for his escape. I want to see him in front of congress testifying on every single thing he knows.

You can be sure he will be dead before something like that happens.

[slucero]

received this today.. thought I'd share...

On March 10, 1975, a group of US diplomatic and national security officials gathered at the office of the Turkish foreign minister's office in Ankara. Henry Kissinger was among them.

The discussion turned to foreign aid and supply of parts for military equipment, at which point Kissinger (Secretary of State at the time) suggested something that violated the law.

William Macomber, the US Ambassador to Turkey, said, "That is illegal."

Kissinger didn't miss a beat, replying, "Before the Freedom of Information Act, I used to say at meetings, 'The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer."

Then, in an almost cartoon-like reaction, the room filled with laughter. You can practically see the rising cigar smoke and fatcats slapping each other on the back as they stick it to the little guy.

But that one quote, probably more than anything else, sums up the US government's attitude: they will do whatever they want, legal or not, Constitutional or not. Most government in the western world follow the same principle.

Just in the last few months, the US government has been found using its tax authorities to bully political opposition groups. They've confiscated phone records of the so-called 'free press'. And they've been caught, very publicly, spying on... everyone.

It's a sad state of affairs when NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden has been forced to flee to the governments of China, Russia, Venezuela, and Ecuador in order to avoid rotting away in a US prison, simply for publicizing the government's very unconstitutional crimes.

Now they've revoked his passport-- something typically reserved exclusively for international pedophiles according to Chapter 4, Title 22 of the US Code.

It's as if the government is happy to continue bending or breaking the law in order to destroy someone who blew the whistle on them breaking the law. Very strange indeed.

Back in the Land of the Free, attention seems to have shifted. The discussion in Congress is not "let's shut down these programs," but rather, "how do we crucify Snowden?"

Make no mistake, these spying programs have been around for a long time. And they're here to stay. Which means we all have a choice to make.

Either we can (a) simply accept that the government is spying on us, or (b) we can take some very simple steps to take back some of our privacy. And freedom.

The good news is that it's fairly simple to do this in the digital world. There are a number of tools, many of them free and open source, to help you safeguard your privacy.

Over the last two weeks, my team and I have put together a special report about digital privacy and security; it covers everything from email to text messaging to VOIP. And we're giving it away absolutely free, no strings attached.

There's a lot of really important information in here, and many of these steps are very, very simple to implement. You don't need to be a techie. You just need to care about your own freedom.

You can download it here. https://s3.amazonaws.com/sm-cdn/reports ... -Paper.pdf

And, please do share it with friends and family.

[annie89509]

received this today.. thought I'd share...

On March 10, 1975, a group of US diplomatic and national security officials gathered at the office of the Turkish foreign minister's office in Ankara. Henry Kissinger was among them.

The discussion turned to foreign aid and supply of parts for military equipment, at which point Kissinger (Secretary of State at the time) suggested something that violated the law.

William Macomber, the US Ambassador to Turkey, said, "That is illegal."

Kissinger didn't miss a beat, replying, "Before the Freedom of Information Act, I used to say at meetings, 'The illegal we do immediately; the unconstitutional takes a little longer."

Then, in an almost cartoon-like reaction, the room filled with laughter. You can practically see the rising cigar smoke and fatcats slapping each other on the back as they stick it to the little guy.

But that one quote, probably more than anything else, sums up the US government's attitude: they will do whatever they want, legal or not, Constitutional or not. Most government in the western world follow the same principle.

Just in the last few months, the US government has been found using its tax authorities to bully political opposition groups. They've confiscated phone records of the so-called 'free press'. And they've been caught, very publicly, spying on... everyone.

It's a sad state of affairs when NSA Whistleblower Edward Snowden has been forced to flee to the governments of China, Russia, Venezuela, and Ecuador in order to avoid rotting away in a US prison, simply for publicizing the government's very unconstitutional crimes.

Now they've revoked his passport-- something typically reserved exclusively for international pedophiles according to Chapter 4, Title 22 of the US Code.

It's as if the government is happy to continue bending or breaking the law in order to destroy someone who blew the whistle on them breaking the law. Very strange indeed.

Back in the Land of the Free, attention seems to have shifted. The discussion in Congress is not "let's shut down these programs," but rather, "how do we crucify Snowden?"

Make no mistake, these spying programs have been around for a long time. And they're here to stay. Which means we all have a choice to make.

Either we can (a) simply accept that the government is spying on us, or (b) we can take some very simple steps to take back some of our privacy. And freedom.

The good news is that it's fairly simple to do this in the digital world. There are a number of tools, many of them free and open source, to help you safeguard your privacy.

Over the last two weeks, my team and I have put together a special report about digital privacy and security; it covers everything from email to text messaging to VOIP. And we're giving it away absolutely free, no strings attached.

There's a lot of really important information in here, and many of these steps are very, very simple to implement. You don't need to be a techie. You just need to care about your own freedom.

You can download it here. https://s3.amazonaws.com/sm-cdn/reports ... -Paper.pdf

And, please do share it with friends and family.

I’ve always made a point in not commenting on political threads, but this excerpt painting Snowden as some sort of hero is ridiculous. A truly righteous whistleblower would have exposed the wrongdoing right here in the USA, surrounding oneself with attorneys and the press, not high-tailing out to communist country after communist country. What a coward!

Mr. Snowden says he is all for democracy…what does he think these countries he has sought refuge stand for!?! Does he think these other govts. don’t have ulterior motives in “protecting” him from the clutches of the US? How do we know he hasn’t already revealed US classified secrets to these foreign govts? A report says the Chinese de-briefed all the data from his 4 laptops before letting him board plane from the Hong Kong Airport to Moscow. And wouldn’t Putin love to “stick” it to America. How about Cuba? And I heard the leader of Ecuador(?) is a Hugo Chavez wannabe. Fine “democratic” bunch he has chosen to insulate himself around .

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

I’ve always made a point in not commenting on political threads, but this excerpt painting Snowden as some sort of hero is ridiculous. A truly righteous whistleblower would have exposed the wrongdoing right here in the USA, surrounding oneself with attorneys and the press, not high-tailing out to communist country after communist country. What a coward!

Mr. Snowden says he is all for democracy…what does he think these countries he has sought refuge stand for!?! Does he think these other govts. don’t have ulterior motives in “protecting” him from the clutches of the US? How do we know he hasn’t already revealed US classified secrets to these foreign govts? A report says the Chinese de-briefed all the data from his 4 laptops before letting him board plane from the Hong Kong Airport to Moscow. And wouldn’t Putin love to “stick” it to America. How about Cuba? And I heard the leader of Ecuador(?) is a Hugo Chavez wannabe. Fine “democratic” bunch he has chosen to insulate himself around .

I can certainly see what you are saying here, China, Russia,Cuba,( and probably Equador) have done more to assault the idea of the sanctity of the individual and have done a lot of horrible things to innocent folks. And Im less than comfortable about Snowden going there.

Then again there have been a number of NSA whisleblowers recently who have gone down the right path - whose attention has it got ? Very few have listened. What else can one do? Of course you can argue that if folks were to lazy to listen to the legitimate whistle blowers and get educated, it is likely that their attention span will be awful short once they get bored with the Snowden story, and the govt would have never been able to get started in this business if people had been informed and involved in defending the Constitution.

What the legitimate recent whistle blowers and Snowden have shown is that the NSA is violating the spirit and the letter of the Constitution. Fine, don't consider Snowden a hero - what he is is immaterial. They story shouldn't be about Snowden - it should be about what the NSA is doing.

[slucero]

I’ve always made a point in not commenting on political threads, but this excerpt painting Snowden as some sort of hero is ridiculous. A truly righteous whistleblower would have exposed the wrongdoing right here in the USA, surrounding oneself with attorneys and the press, not high-tailing out to communist country after communist country. What a coward!

Mr. Snowden says he is all for democracy…what does he think these countries he has sought refuge stand for!?! Does he think these other govts. don’t have ulterior motives in “protecting” him from the clutches of the US? How do we know he hasn’t already revealed US classified secrets to these foreign govts? A report says the Chinese de-briefed all the data from his 4 laptops before letting him board plane from the Hong Kong Airport to Moscow. And wouldn’t Putin love to “stick” it to America. How about Cuba? And I heard the leader of Ecuador(?) is a Hugo Chavez wannabe. Fine “democratic” bunch he has chosen to insulate himself around .

It appears your opinion of the man is not based on what he's done, but instead based on where he goes.. and that makes no sense at all. Try separating the two acts.

In a country were we now know the government has suspended Habeas Corpus, and has now admitted it is collecting the metadata of its own citizens.. it's quite possible and logical that Mr. Snowden feels he won't get a fair trial... if a trial at all..

No doubt about it... in the eyes of the law what he did is traitorous.. and for that this mans life is over, ruined by his own hand... he will be hunted and haunted for the rest of his life... Yet in the middle of all of that remember Snowden walked away from his whole life, not for money... but because of the wrongdoing he believed was being done by the government to you and me.. and because he hasn't done it YOUR WAY isn't enough for you? Would you have enough guts to do any of what he's done were you in his place?

You are so worried about the "secrets" he may be revealing to Communist enemies that you are willing to overlook the secretive, dare I say COMMUNIST way your own government is spying on you, when you should be infuriated by it!

Instead, you appear ready and willing to absolve the government by instead focusing on Mr Snowdens travel itinerary.

Unlike Mr. Snowden, you will still be eating at your own dinner table tonight and shitting in your own toilet tomorrow. And also unlike Mr Snowden, unless you've worked for the NSA and have an understanding of the scope of their intelligence operations and apparatus to the same degree he does, then it's logical that his opinion of the NSA is gonna be a bit more educated than yours... or mine.

Opinion you are entitled to. It's your Constitutional right. At least for now. Although you don't seem to care about that at all...

[Don]

You know, I've always assumed it was common knowledge that our own Government spied on us. For the greater good and all that aside, it seems like most adults would have been aware of this as it's been going on for over half a century. Sure, technology has changed but not the act itself. Now , I'm reading how we are becoming a dictatorship, that we are worse than the enemies we have grown up fighting against. Do people really believe that? Who here grew up in Argentina in the 70s or Spain in the 60s? What a slap in the face of those people to call what we have here in the U.S. a dictatorship. So, no one here ever fathomed that this has been going since the cold war started, that's what is unbelievable.
If Snowden gets a bullet in head tomorrow, I'll sleep just fine because you know what? That's how it is in the real world. Don't say stop making him the story, he made himself the story. He didn't tell educated people anything that they didn't know already. This stuff has been in the courts for years, it's just with the proliferation of people becoming more web literate that it all of a sudden seems to be some new revelation about what has been going on since the Eisenhower days.

What about all this outrage? What are you doing about it? Are you going to boycott the next election? That was already done in 2012 by all the fine, upstanding folk who couldn't tolerate having a Mormon representing the great right way.

Are you going to move to another country? Go for it. Oh, wait..looks like the UK might have been doing the same thing, what about Germany, France? Could it be that all of those democratic nations have been doing the same thing all these years to keep their citizens safe too? Could it be that is how it works in the real world? Go take a trip to Somalia and tell the people there how bad you have it because the big bad Kenyan is spying on you, just like what's been done under Bush, under Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy and so on and so on. I'm sure they'll feel your pain.

It's easy to dog pile on Annie as the ungrateful immigrant and ask why she isn't outraged but that brings us back around to what are you guys going to do about it. A lot of links, a lot of talking amongst the few but what are YOU actually going to do about it? Are you going to march in a protest, are you going to chain yourself to a fence at a federal building? Burn the flag in public? Let us know. Let's see all this OUTRAGE put to use beyond posts in a music forum.

[slucero]

The irony is that Annie as an immigrant.. would have had to take American Civics classes and would likely know American history & Government better than most American today.. most of who think our government is a "democracy"... when its actually a republic.. and haven't a clue what either means.. so when I "dogpile" on Annie its because I expected more of her as an immigrant.. unless of course she's here illegally, but that's a whole different convo..


So no Don, that's how it is in YOUR world..

In my world we should have a Constitution, personal sovereignty, Habeas Corpus, rights, etc.

What do I do?

I don't boycott elections.. I vote...

I remind people by posting in forums like this... Dialogue is how change begins... and it has to start somewhere... maybe seeds planted here get retold a few dozen times by a few dozen people. All one can do is try.


What are YOU doing Don about the simple premise that, as you just said ... "our own Government spied on us" ? Nothing I suspect... other than to blather on about what others are or aren't doing.

Maybe you've just forgotten that what the government is doing it has been doing in secret... or the recent NSA revelations and NSA and White House acknowledgement might not be so incendiary... given the whole premise of the American experiment.. you know freedom, liberty and all that..

Or maybe you've forgotten that "Ameirica" is the People or the 50 states.. and that the Federal Government is simply an administrative function the Framers of the Constitution created to serve the People.. not become omnipotent enough to spy on them.

Maybe you are OK with that.. I'm not.

[Don]

No Don, that's how it is in YOUR world..

In my world we should have a Constitution, personal sovereignty, Habeas Corpus, rights, etc.

What do I do?

I don't boycott elections.. I vote...

I remind people by posting in forums like this...


What are you doing Don about the simple premise that, as you just said ... "our own Government spied on us" ? Nothing?

Maybe you've just forgotten that what the government is doing it has been doing in secret... or the recent revelations and acknowledgement might not be so incendiary... given the whole premise of the American experiment.. you know freedom, liberty and all that..

Or maybe you've forgotten the "Ameirica" is the People or the 50 states.. and that the Federal Government is simply an administrative function the Framers of the Constitution created to serve the People.. not become omnipotent enough to spy on them.

Maybe you are OK with that.. I'm not.

And that is your right. As for myself, I'm fine with it. I see the constitution as a living document that will change as as society and technology evolve. Slavery, discrimination against homosexuals, so many things have had to be tweaked over the years to compensate for the things that our forefathers could never have imagined.
I've had the opportunity to live or spend considerable time in over two dozen countries and the other continents. Europe, Asia, Africa, I've been all over and it's become more and more evident to me that despite all the problems we have with our own way of governance, the U.S. is still the best country in the world. I've been on the other side of the fence and all things considered, I will take what we have over anything else.

[Memorex]

Everyone does it. Come on. It can't be so bad if everyone is doing it.

How about this thought - if America is so great, isn't it worth fighting that much more for to keep it that way?

[slucero]

Ironic that what was once considered "conspiracy theory" is now conspiracy fact..


the constitution isn't a "living document" and it never was intended to be such.... that's why Madison documented all the debates... he (and the Framers) knew someday there would be attempts to re-interpret, abrogate and subvert the language of the Constitution, and they wanted future generations to have a clear understanding of the meaning of the words.

It's also why they made the amendment process so hard. They wanted consensus to be the only way the Constitution could be amended.

[Don]

With everything I post my eyes have always been wide open that anyone could be or is listening, reading, etc. Maybe that mindset comes from those bureau chief briefings I used to get overseas at the U.S. embassy but it's been ingrained in me forever it seems. And with international social sites like this, facebook, etc. I am also pretty confident that it's more than one government with their water glass to the wall. When I was in the UK, it seemed you had to be out in the middle of a field and under a tree to have any kind of privacy.
It's like nuclear weapons. You can vote on it, you can demand it but it's never going back to the way it was. Even if Ron Paul or who ever would get elected and say we will not be doing this anymore, it wouldn't end (As if one individual would have that power to begin with). We will not have the rest of the world doing it to us and not be involved in the game. The proverbial toothpaste has been out of the tube for decades and it's the same all over the globe. There is no utopia in our future.

[Don]

With everything I post my eyes have always been wide open that anyone could be or is listening, reading, etc. Maybe that mindset comes from those bureau chief briefings I used to get overseas at the U.S. embassy but it's been ingrained in me forever it seems. And with international social sites like this, facebook, etc. I am also pretty confident that it's more than one government with their water glass to the wall. When I was in the UK, it seemed you had to be out in the middle of a field and under a tree to have any kind of privacy.
It's like nuclear weapons. You can vote on it, you can demand it but it's never going back to the way it was. Even if Ron Paul or who ever would get elected and say we will not be doing this anymore, it wouldn't end. We will not have the rest of the world doing it to us and not be involved in the game. The proverbial toothpaste has been out of the tube for decades and it's the same all over the globe. There is no utopia in our future.

Not to get Off topic, but did you see this today?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rgets.html

It's not a surprise at all. Israel was partly founded by Russian immigrants and Russian still the third most widely spoken language in the country. However, when things changed because of Russia feeling that the Jews went behind their back with England and France in getting the Suez Canal under control, The USSR turned face and allied itself with any Arab nation that was opposed to Israel. Of course, even that changed as Russia ended up pulling out of its bases in Egypt when Anwar Sadat declared peace with Israel. The funny thing is now, it's coming full circle again as more and more affluent Russian Jews are moving their money abroad to Israel. Now Putin is trying to play two hands by keeping Syria and other cold war Muslim allies under it's control but also trying to appease the Russian king makers of Jewish decent so he can maintain his position of power indefinitely.

I've worked with old timers in Special Ops back in the day who told me about POW training in the 1960s. They'd be grabbed, blindfolded and put in a cave for days. Nothing but the Koran being read to them full blast through speakers. Being forced down on their knees and feeling cold steel on the back of their neck like they we being prepared to be decapitated. We knew what the Reds were inciting and what was coming down the pike years before it actually hit us, make no mistake about it.

[slucero]

With everything I post my eyes have always been wide open that anyone could be or is listening, reading, etc. Maybe that mindset comes from those bureau chief briefings I used to get overseas at the U.S. embassy but it's been ingrained in me forever it seems. And with international social sites like this, facebook, etc. I am also pretty confident that it's more than one government with their water glass to the wall. When I was in the UK, it seemed you had to be out in the middle of a field and under a tree to have any kind of privacy.
It's like nuclear weapons. You can vote on it, you can demand it but it's never going back to the way it was. Even if Ron Paul or who ever would get elected and say we will not be doing this anymore, it wouldn't end (As if one individual would have that power to begin with). We will not have the rest of the world doing it to us and not be involved in the game. The proverbial toothpaste has been out of the tube for decades and it's the same all over the globe. There is no utopia in our future.

what the heck does the Constitution have to do with utopia... I'd simply like the government to follow the law.

[Memorex]

I simply do not understand the president. Most of my life is spent working, so maybe my priority is that the job market be strong. So it really confuses me when he comes out and doubles down on this whole climate stuff which will by all accounts, cut jobs, lower wages, raise energy prices even higher.... I just don't understand why he doesn't roll up his sleeves on the economy and jobs. So many steps he has taken is making it harder for the work force. obamacare alone has driven hours down and prevented potential hirings. It's just mind-boggling to me each week that focus is not on the economy and jobs.

[Boomchild]

I’ve always made a point in not commenting on political threads, but this excerpt painting Snowden as some sort of hero is ridiculous. A truly righteous whistleblower would have exposed the wrongdoing right here in the USA, surrounding oneself with attorneys and the press, not high-tailing out to communist country after communist country. What a coward!

Mr. Snowden says he is all for democracy…what does he think these countries he has sought refuge stand for!?! Does he think these other govts. don’t have ulterior motives in “protecting” him from the clutches of the US? How do we know he hasn’t already revealed US classified secrets to these foreign govts? A report says the Chinese de-briefed all the data from his 4 laptops before letting him board plane from the Hong Kong Airport to Moscow. And wouldn’t Putin love to “stick” it to America. How about Cuba? And I heard the leader of Ecuador(?) is a Hugo Chavez wannabe. Fine “democratic” bunch he has chosen to insulate himself around .

It could be possible that what he wants to reveal would put his life in danger by staying in the U.S.. Something that attorneys and the press would not be able to protect him from. It also could be possible that he has nothing stored on his computers that would benefit the countries he has fled to. Based on the situation, I am not willing to take press reports about what his is doing at face value. Time will tell.

[Don]

I’ve always made a point in not commenting on political threads, but this excerpt painting Snowden as some sort of hero is ridiculous. A truly righteous whistleblower would have exposed the wrongdoing right here in the USA, surrounding oneself with attorneys and the press, not high-tailing out to communist country after communist country. What a coward!

Mr. Snowden says he is all for democracy…what does he think these countries he has sought refuge stand for!?! Does he think these other govts. don’t have ulterior motives in “protecting” him from the clutches of the US? How do we know he hasn’t already revealed US classified secrets to these foreign govts? A report says the Chinese de-briefed all the data from his 4 laptops before letting him board plane from the Hong Kong Airport to Moscow. And wouldn’t Putin love to “stick” it to America. How about Cuba? And I heard the leader of Ecuador(?) is a Hugo Chavez wannabe. Fine “democratic” bunch he has chosen to insulate himself around .

It could be possible that what he wants to reveal would put his life in danger by staying in the U.S.. Something that attorneys and the press would not be able to protect him from. It also could be possible that he has nothing stored on his computers that would benefit the countries he has fled to. Based on the situation, I am not willing to take press reports about what his is doing at face value. Time will tell.

Yep, time will tell one way or the other when it comes to Snowden. I know he is praying right now that Russia doesn't use him as some kind of pawn or trade. His protected refugee status means nothing to them. I wouldn't put it past the reds to bop him of once he gets all nice and settled in Ecuador. A little bit of gamesmanship where everyone would automatically assume it was done by the CIA.

[Boomchild]

This is going to help boost unemployment in the U.S.. Not so sure it's going to help our national defense.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... chief-says

[steveo777]

I’ve always made a point in not commenting on political threads, but this excerpt painting Snowden as some sort of hero is ridiculous. A truly righteous whistleblower would have exposed the wrongdoing right here in the USA, surrounding oneself with attorneys and the press, not high-tailing out to communist country after communist country. What a coward!

Mr. Snowden says he is all for democracy…what does he think these countries he has sought refuge stand for!?! Does he think these other govts. don’t have ulterior motives in “protecting” him from the clutches of the US? How do we know he hasn’t already revealed US classified secrets to these foreign govts? A report says the Chinese de-briefed all the data from his 4 laptops before letting him board plane from the Hong Kong Airport to Moscow. And wouldn’t Putin love to “stick” it to America. How about Cuba? And I heard the leader of Ecuador(?) is a Hugo Chavez wannabe. Fine “democratic” bunch he has chosen to insulate himself around .

It appears your opinion of the man is not based on what he's done, but instead based on where he goes.. and that makes no sense at all. Try separating the two acts.

In a country were we now know the government has suspended Habeas Corpus, and has now admitted it is collecting the metadata of its own citizens.. it's quite possible and logical that Mr. Snowden feels he won't get a fair trial... if a trial at all..

No doubt about it... in the eyes of the law what he did is traitorous.. and for that this mans life is over, ruined by his own hand... he will be hunted and haunted for the rest of his life... Yet in the middle of all of that remember Snowden walked away from his whole life, not for money... but because of the wrongdoing he believed was being done by the government to you and me.. and because he hasn't done it YOUR WAY isn't enough for you? Would you have enough guts to do any of what he's done were you in his place?

You are so worried about the "secrets" he may be revealing to Communist enemies that you are willing to overlook the secretive, dare I say COMMUNIST way your own government is spying on you, when you should be infuriated by it!

Instead, you appear ready and willing to absolve the government by instead focusing on Mr Snowdens travel itinerary.

Unlike Mr. Snowden, you will still be eating at your own dinner table tonight and shitting in your own toilet tomorrow. And also unlike Mr Snowden, unless you've worked for the NSA and have an understanding of the scope of their intelligence operations and apparatus to the same degree he does, then it's logical that his opinion of the NSA is gonna be a bit more educated than yours... or mine.

Opinion you are entitled to. It's your Constitutional right. At least for now. Although you don't seem to care about that at all...

While I'm not going to discount Don's view, I 100% agree with yours. I am certain that there have been amendments to this program during the Obama administration that have increased their power and scope to do what they have done and this has been disclosed by Mr. Snowden. Someone who is willing to forfeit his own life for the truth is not a traitor in my book. The guy stands for something and he believes that the government has over played their power. The problem here is if we continue to give a pass everytime the government increases their role in our lives, we might as well be living in a dictator run society, as that is EXACTLY where this is heading, little by little. We need to quit giving these inches at a time, that will result in miles of our liberty and freedoms being revoked. The very government that wants to prosecute one soul is the very government who has members who should be prosecuted as well. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. The direction our country is headed is not good.

[annie89509]

Now I know why I don’t comment in political threads ? In such limited time and space, it’s impossible to put your full thoughts/opinions down. Then you have people drawing conclusions about you who know nothing about you.

Yes, I am an immigrant, having been born in Hong Kong in 1955, which was actually a British Crown colony before reverting back to China rule in 1989(?). As soon as my mother and 3 siblings stepped on American (San Fran.) soil in 1962, I (along with my brother & 2 sisters) automatically became naturalized citizens since my father was already here and became a citizen 2 years prior, while my grandfather (born in China in 1896) had ventured (14 yrs old, tag around his neck) by ship across the ocean to port of S.F. where his parents (both US citizens, possibly native-born, resided in SF) were waiting to accept their son.

Even though I wasn’t born here, but having been raised, educated, and lived here for over 50 yrs (longer than most posters here been alive), I consider myself an American through and through. As someone already pointed out, the govt. spying on its citizens …what else is new? Invasion of privacy? … everytime we give our SS#, telephone #, home address, DOB, etc. it’s going into some database somewhere, gathering info on us. I’d bet Big Brother knows exactly how much $ we have in the Bank. If we’re not doing anything wrong, what’s the big deal? And, if we are doing something wrong, stay off the goddamn internet, facebook, tweeter… (personally, I don’t do chat, facebook or tweet, hehe).

I think this current President is the most hypocritical of any we ever had. He gives nice speeches…says one thing and does the opposite. Sure, the NSA thing may have started with the Patriots Act during the Bush years, but the Obama Adm. has taken it to a whole ‘nother level. Add on to all the other wrongdoings being uncovered, he has a lot of explaining to do. Instead, we’re getting stonewalled and his people constantly (helped by those in the media who favor him) spin the old “it’s all about political payback” line. The economy is in the tank, Obama policies don’t work, and he (his administration) is embroiled in scandal after scandal .

I don’t know if anything I wrote here make sense or what it has to do with Eric Snowden. I still don’t like the guy…he’s not a hero, in my eyes. But he does have a lot of people who support him. Why not come back and face the music? What’s he got to be afraid of? Who would dare wrong him with all this scrutiny and spotlight on him?

[Rick]

Now I know why I don’t comment in political threads ? In such limited time and space, it’s impossible to put your full thoughts/opinions down. Then you have people drawing conclusions about you who know nothing about you.

Yes, I am an immigrant, having been born in Hong Kong in 1955, which was actually a British Crown colony before reverting back to China rule in 1989(?). As soon as my mother and 3 siblings stepped on American (San Fran.) soil in 1962, I (along with my brother & 2 sisters) automatically became naturalized citizens since my father was already here and became a citizen 2 years prior, while my grandfather (born in China in 1896) had ventured (14 yrs old, tag around his neck) by ship across the ocean to port of S.F. where his parents (both US citizens, possibly native-born, resided in SF) were waiting to accept their son.

Even though I wasn’t born here, but having been raised, educated, and lived here for over 50 yrs (longer than most posters here been alive), I consider myself an American through and through. As someone already pointed out, the govt. spying on its citizens …what else is new? Invasion of privacy? … everytime we give our SS#, telephone #, home address, DOB, etc. it’s going into some database somewhere, gathering info on us. I’d bet Big Brother knows exactly how much $ we have in the Bank. If we’re not doing anything wrong, what’s the big deal? And, if we are doing something wrong, stay off the goddamn internet, facebook, tweeter… (personally, I don’t do chat, facebook or tweet, hehe).

I think this current President is the most hypocritical of any we ever had. He gives nice speeches…says one thing and does the opposite. Sure, the NSA thing may have started with the Patriots Act during the Bush years, but the Obama Adm. has taken it to a whole ‘nother level. Add on to all the other wrongdoings being uncovered, he has a lot of explaining to do. Instead, we’re getting stonewalled and his people constantly (helped by those in the media who favor him) spin the old “it’s all about political payback” line. The economy is in the tank, Obama policies don’t work, and he (his administration) is embroiled in scandal after scandal .

I don’t know if anything I wrote here make sense or what it has to do with Eric Snowden. I still don’t like the guy…he’s not a hero, in my eyes. But he does have a lot of people who support him. Why not come back and face the music? What’s he got to be afraid of? Who would dare wrong him with all this scrutiny and spotlight on him?

If he comes back, they will cook him, spotlight or not.

[annie89509]

I just can't wrap my head around why, of all the countries in the world, he chose China, Russia, Cuba, Ecuador...to make his tour?
Someone explain that to me.

[slucero]

Now I know why I don’t comment in political threads ? In such limited time and space, it’s impossible to put your full thoughts/opinions down. Then you have people drawing conclusions about you who know nothing about you.

Yes, I am an immigrant, having been born in Hong Kong in 1955, which was actually a British Crown colony before reverting back to China rule in 1989(?). As soon as my mother and 3 siblings stepped on American (San Fran.) soil in 1962, I (along with my brother & 2 sisters) automatically became naturalized citizens since my father was already here and became a citizen 2 years prior, while my grandfather (born in China in 1896) had ventured (14 yrs old, tag around his neck) by ship across the ocean to port of S.F. where his parents (both US citizens, possibly native-born, resided in SF) were waiting to accept their son.

Even though I wasn’t born here, but having been raised, educated, and lived here for over 50 yrs (longer than most posters here been alive), I consider myself an American through and through. As someone already pointed out, the govt. spying on its citizens …what else is new? Invasion of privacy? … everytime we give our SS#, telephone #, home address, DOB, etc. it’s going into some database somewhere, gathering info on us. I’d bet Big Brother knows exactly how much $ we have in the Bank. If we’re not doing anything wrong, what’s the big deal? And, if we are doing something wrong, stay off the goddamn internet, facebook, tweeter… (personally, I don’t do chat, facebook or tweet, hehe).

I think this current President is the most hypocritical of any we ever had. He gives nice speeches…says one thing and does the opposite. Sure, the NSA thing may have started with the Patriots Act during the Bush years, but the Obama Adm. has taken it to a whole ‘nother level. Add on to all the other wrongdoings being uncovered, he has a lot of explaining to do. Instead, we’re getting stonewalled and his people constantly (helped by those in the media who favor him) spin the old “it’s all about political payback” line. The economy is in the tank, Obama policies don’t work, and he (his administration) is embroiled in scandal after scandal .

I don’t know if anything I wrote here make sense or what it has to do with Eric Snowden. I still don’t like the guy…he’s not a hero, in my eyes. But he does have a lot of people who support him. Why not come back and face the music? What’s he got to be afraid of? Who would dare wrong him with all this scrutiny and spotlight on him?

If he comes back, they will cook him, spotlight or not.

Bradley Manning.

[steveo777]

Now I know why I don’t comment in political threads ? In such limited time and space, it’s impossible to put your full thoughts/opinions down. Then you have people drawing conclusions about you who know nothing about you.

Yes, I am an immigrant, having been born in Hong Kong in 1955, which was actually a British Crown colony before reverting back to China rule in 1989(?). As soon as my mother and 3 siblings stepped on American (San Fran.) soil in 1962, I (along with my brother & 2 sisters) automatically became naturalized citizens since my father was already here and became a citizen 2 years prior, while my grandfather (born in China in 1896) had ventured (14 yrs old, tag around his neck) by ship across the ocean to port of S.F. where his parents (both US citizens, possibly native-born, resided in SF) were waiting to accept their son.

Even though I wasn’t born here, but having been raised, educated, and lived here for over 50 yrs (longer than most posters here been alive), I consider myself an American through and through. As someone already pointed out, the govt. spying on its citizens …what else is new? Invasion of privacy? … everytime we give our SS#, telephone #, home address, DOB, etc. it’s going into some database somewhere, gathering info on us. I’d bet Big Brother knows exactly how much $ we have in the Bank. If we’re not doing anything wrong, what’s the big deal? And, if we are doing something wrong, stay off the goddamn internet, facebook, tweeter… (personally, I don’t do chat, facebook or tweet, hehe).

I think this current President is the most hypocritical of any we ever had. He gives nice speeches…says one thing and does the opposite. Sure, the NSA thing may have started with the Patriots Act during the Bush years, but the Obama Adm. has taken it to a whole ‘nother level. Add on to all the other wrongdoings being uncovered, he has a lot of explaining to do. Instead, we’re getting stonewalled and his people constantly (helped by those in the media who favor him) spin the old “it’s all about political payback” line. The economy is in the tank, Obama policies don’t work, and he (his administration) is embroiled in scandal after scandal .

I don’t know if anything I wrote here make sense or what it has to do with Eric Snowden. I still don’t like the guy…he’s not a hero, in my eyes. But he does have a lot of people who support him. Why not come back and face the music? What’s he got to be afraid of? Who would dare wrong him with all this scrutiny and spotlight on him?

He will die and someone will call it an "accident". He has very much to be afraid of, just as others who have died at suspected Obama's goons hands. Breitbart comes to mind. What we are told and what actually happens could be entirely different storys. I'm not into conspiracy theory, but lately too much that was once labeled "conspiracy" has come to pass as real.

BTW, thanks Annie. I think you told us more about yourself than you really needed to, but to me that makes you genuine.