President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[The_Noble_Cause]

Sometimes really shitty things, though constitutional, should be changed. The health care law, with all it's good and bad points and regulations, needs a lot of changing. There is nothing wrong with that discussion.

You're right. But none of those things ( suffrage, voting rights) were passed by one party de-funding the government. Why don't you be honest, your party is circumventing checks and balances and making a mockery of our system. There was an election in 2012, as well as a Supreme Court ruling. Deal with it. Either get a GOP President elected or a veto-proof majority and win. Btw, even if Romney won, he wouldn't have repealed Obamacare. You guys are getting played and are too dumb to know it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Your stance seems to have been that the Republicans or anyone objecting to this health care reform should just get over it because the Supreme Court ruled on it and that is now "the law of the land".

Is that what the Republicans are doing? Simply "objecting"? Last I checked, they were refusing to fund the government. The bottom line is, you guys can't win elections and can't stand it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You come back to this thread in three years when we are staring at a 100 trillion dollar deficit.

Obamacare will bring down the deficit. Furthermore, wasn't it the demigod of Conservatism, Dick Cheney who said, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter?" If the GOP truly cared about our financial state, what message do you think shutting down the government sends abroad to our foreign bond holders. Fucking amateurs.

[Memorex]

Sometimes really shitty things, though constitutional, should be changed. The health care law, with all it's good and bad points and regulations, needs a lot of changing. There is nothing wrong with that discussion.

You're right. But none of those things ( suffrage, voting rights) were passed by one party de-funding the government. Why don't you be honest, your party is circumventing checks and balances and making a mockery of our system. There was an election in 2012, as well as a Supreme Court ruling. Deal with it. Either get a GOP President elected or a veto-proof majority and win. Btw, even if Romney won, he wouldn't have repealed Obamacare. You guys are getting played and are too dumb to know it.

Whoa. Slow down there cowboy. No one said this was my party. I am an independent, which allows me to think independently and pick and choose whatever I want to support and whomever I want to support. I don't have the same problem as the majority of voters - which is to support bad ideas solely so I can support my team. I can pivot based on reality and I don't have to wait for permission from my mommies and daddies in the party leadership.

If a party chooses to defund a bad law, isn't that the very checks and balances we are talking about? What checks and balances are you referring to if you give no power to one party, which holds the purse string powers?

In any case, I am not for a government shut down, or even a mini one like is happening now. I take that back - I wish the whole thing would shut down and reorganize. But I also don't blame one side over the other and I do have understanding of both sides.

If the Democrats could at least recognize that the law was written in a horrific way and that it is currently doing a lot of harm, then maybe we could get somewhere. If the Republicans had a better brand and kept their nose out of shit they don't even care about, then maybe we could get somewhere.

[Memorex]

You come back to this thread in three years when we are staring at a 100 trillion dollar deficit.

Obamacare will bring down the deficit. Furthermore, wasn't it the demigod of Conservatism, Dick Cheney who said, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter?" If the GOP truly cared about our financial state, what message do you think shutting down the government sends abroad to our foreign bond holders. Fucking amateurs.

The plan is that it would bring down the deficit. History tells us otherwise. The trick here is all the new taxes. And there are a lot of them. That has never had a good outcome, nor has a government program ever come in under cost predictions. If you assume this program will be twice as efficient as other programs, it's still going to blow the cost estimates out of the water. A thinking man, an honest man knows this program will be fraught with fraud, waste, and abuse. We forget to include those numbers. No way in hell this program lowers the deficit.

The last CBO report said if the law was repealed, it would increase the deficit by only $100 billion over 10 years. Chump change in today's world. For that, we are taxing consumers and businesses to the point we'll likely see less revenue anyway. And the middle class will be paying a hell of a lot more for healthcare.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Obamacare will bring down the deficit.

Bull Fucking Shit!

That's like saying handing out parking tickets to people who don't even drive a car will lower parking ticket fines.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Obamacare will bring down the deficit.

Bull Fucking Shit!

That's like saying handing out parking tickets to people who don't even drive a car will lower parking ticket fines.

Nearly every other country (capitalist, socialist, or otherwise) spends less per GDP on healthcare than the US. Besides, everybody knows that Conservatives don't actually care things like spending, the national debt, or the deficit anyway.

[Memorex]

There is some good stuff in the bill and some frightening stuff. Number one, I don't want to HAVE to purchase anything based on the Federal Government telling me to. They purchase what we tell them to, not the other way around. Second, stop taxing us so damn much. Every single turn these days it's new taxes. I can barely afford to live now as it is. And in this economy, the only things that should be passed are those that support real job growth.

I'm do hope some people will benefit. I mean, it's got to help someone, right?

[Boomchild]

Is that what the Republicans are doing? Simply "objecting"? Last I checked, they were refusing to fund the government. The bottom line is, you guys can't win elections and can't stand it.

First, I am not a member of the Republican party. It seems you haven't kept up on the situation. They were "objecting" to approve funds that are for Obamacare and approved all other funding. When that was rejected by the Senate, they came back with a offer to approve funding as long as the implementation of Obamacare is delayed for one year. Harry Reid and B.O. refused that offer, actually they have refused to negotiate period. Their stance has been all or nothing. So removing the spin by Reid, B.O. and the main stream press, it's actually the Dems refusing to fund anything at this point.

Also, still waiting for you to explain how excluding certain groups and not having Congress members pay the same for coverage as all Americans are being forced to is a form of "tweaking" the program and not just outright favoritism. Again, if this plan is good for ALL Americans as passed and vetted by the Supreme Court, then why are they giving these exemptions?

[The Sushi Hunter]

Nearly every other country (capitalist, socialist, or otherwise) spends less per GDP on healthcare than the US. Besides, everybody knows that Conservatives don't actually care things like spending, the national debt, or the deficit anyway.

Just because "it" works in one culture/society doesn't mean it will work in another. America is made up of groups who take from the system and not pay into it. Individuals within the US Government are in the business of creating the rules/laws but don't want the financial responsibilities that come with such rules/laws. So they create OBamacare. Basically they want to provide handout in the form of healthcare but want citizens to pay for it.

What's so hard about: You don't work, you can't get healthcare, you're not a citizen of America, you don't get healthcare. Fuck! I'd like to see someone with no money and not a resident of Mexico go to Mexico and get healthcare or a drivers license Try that shit in Japan and they'd have you out on the next flight. People get more rights after they commit a crime in this country. If I quit my job, lived homeless on the street, I'd get more in benefits from the American Government than I do when I work hard and pay taxes. America's all fucked up period!

[Boomchild]

There is some good stuff in the bill and some frightening stuff. Number one, I don't want to HAVE to purchase anything based on the Federal Government telling me to. They purchase what we tell them to, not the other way around. Second, stop taxing us so damn much. Every single turn these days it's new taxes. I can barely afford to live now as it is. And in this economy, the only things that should be passed are those that support real job growth.

I'm do hope some people will benefit. I mean, it's got to help someone, right?

I think most of us here could agree that our healthcare system needs to be reformed. It just that this new law isn't it. Regardless of what the Supreme Court, politicians and the ppl that support them say, our system of government was not set up to force it's citizens to buy a product or service. Trashing our healthcare system to supposedly "help some" is not the way to fix things.

[Boomchild]

What's so hard about: You don't work, you can't get healthcare, you're not a citizen of America, you don't get healthcare. Fuck! I'd like to see someone with no money and not a resident of Mexico go to Mexico and get healthcare or a drivers license Try that shit in Japan and they'd have you out on the next flight. People get more rights after they commit a crime in this country. If I quit my job, lived homeless on the street, I'd get more in benefits from the American Government than I do when I work hard and pay taxes. America's all fucked up period!

These things are all done under the umbrella of "compassion". If you you don't think in the same way as people who support what you have stated here then you don't have compassion and are a self centered person. Which anyone with brain can see right through that as bullshit.

[The Sushi Hunter]

What's so hard about: You don't work, you can't get healthcare, you're not a citizen of America, you don't get healthcare. Fuck! I'd like to see someone with no money and not a resident of Mexico go to Mexico and get healthcare or a drivers license Try that shit in Japan and they'd have you out on the next flight. People get more rights after they commit a crime in this country. If I quit my job, lived homeless on the street, I'd get more in benefits from the American Government than I do when I work hard and pay taxes. America's all fucked up period!

These things are all done under the umbrella of "compassion". If you you don't think in the same way as people who support what you have stated here then you don't have compassion and are a self centered person. Which anyone with brain can see right through that as bullshit.

I have compassion for "good" people, not to be confused with the fuckheads who will roll you in an alley the first chance they get or who commit crimes for a living.

[Boomchild]

I must say I'm getting a chuckle on how this administration is working day and night to "play up" the effects of this government shutdown. Things like putting up barbwire around the WWII memorial and shutting down automated systems. Next thing you know they will be putting up a curtain in front of Mount Rushmore.

[Boomchild]

I have compassion for "good" people, not to be confused with the fuckheads who will roll you in an alley the first chance they get or who commit crimes for a living.

I hear you. Unfortunately, we have a administration and others in our system of government that believe in redistribution and providing entitlements without those receiving them being accountable for their actions nor doing something to get themselves off these programs and becoming productive members of our society.

[The_Noble_Cause]

First, I am not a member of the Republican party.

No, of course not. You only voted for Bush, were pro-Iraq, have a McCain/Palin bumper sticker on your car, and dragged down your neighbor's property values with all of your GOP yard signs.

It seems you haven't kept up on the situation. They were "objecting" to approve funds that are for Obamacare and approved all other funding. When that was rejected by the Senate, they came back with a offer to approve funding as long as the implementation of Obamacare is delayed for one year.

Sorry. It doesn't work like that. If the American people didn't want Obamacare, they could've voted the other guy into office. That was the time for a referendum on the policy, not now. You are just a sore loser.

Also, still waiting for you to explain how excluding certain groups and not having Congress members pay the same for coverage as all Americans are being forced to is a form of "tweaking" the program and not just outright favoritism. Again, if this plan is good for ALL Americans as passed and vetted by the Supreme Court, then why are they giving these exemptions?

Fuck you. I don't have to explain shit. What are you going to do? Try to defund me? Stick your hardball tactics up your ass, gutterpunk.

[The_Noble_Cause]

... our system of government was not set up to force it's citizens to buy a product or service...

Never heard of The Militia Acts, eh?

[Boomchild]

No, of course not. You only voted for Bush, were pro-Iraq, have a McCain/Palin bumper sticker on your car, and dragged down your neighbor's property values with all of your GOP yard signs.

Sorry, didn't vote for Bush and in case you haven't noticed it's 2013 and he is not POTUS anymore. Also, I am not a supporter of the U.S. being the world police and I do not drive a car since I am legally blind. Nice try though. How about staying in the here and now.

Sorry. It doesn't work like that. If the American people didn't want Obamacare, they could've voted the other guy into office. That was the time for a referendum on the policy, not now. You are just a sore loser.

Sorry, it's not that simple. A lot more goes into how laws are made then just a Presidential election. If that was the case then we would not have a Congress nor a Senate.

Fuck you. I don't have to explain shit. What are you going to do? Try to defund me? Stick your hardball tactics up your ass, gutterpunk.

LOL. You can't explain it and therefore just like all the the others that can't you resort to the typical ghetto four letter response. Deflect and avoid.

[slucero]

Obamacare will bring down the deficit.

lmao...

Not according to the Congressional Budget Office... https://www.cbo.gov/publication/44521

"The gap between federal spending and revenues would widen steadily after 2015 under the assumptions of the extended baseline, CBO projects. By 2038, the deficit would be 6½ percent of GDP, larger than in any year between 1947 and 2008, and federal debt held by the public would reach 100 percent of GDP, more than in any year except 1945 and 1946. With such large deficits, federal debt would be growing faster than GDP, a path that would ultimately be unsustainable. "

even David Stockman, former director of the Office of Management and Budget says Obamacare is not well thought out...

“It is the worst law ever passed in the last four decades by the federal government,” Stockman argues. “It is a massive entitlement to end all entitlements. It is going to cause a fiscal hemorrhage that is not even yet anticipated. It will tie up one-sixth of GDP in the most monstrous, massive, bureaucratic snarl that you can’t imagine. So therefore this needs to be stopped before it becomes operational.”

Stockman expects that more companies will follow the lead of GE (GE) and Walgreen (WAG) who have announced they will move employee or retiree healthcare benefits to private exchanges.

Once millions of additional Americans are “dumped” onto Obamacare exchanges, Stockman expects the cost to the government of subsidizing (with tax credits) these Americans’ insurance to swell.

[Boomchild]

"“It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

Read more: http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/ ... z2gmDx8FqT


This is how The Won plays his games, day before yesterday he scared the markets with his bullshit rhetoric. Fuckhead is willing to play with people's livelihoods and retirements to get his way. He's a sorry excuse for a leader. He'll, it's possible that The Won is even more arrogant and condescending than TNC if that's even possible.

They feel that a severe market selloff would be helpful to break the logjam," said Greg Valliere, chief political strategist at Potomac Research Group in Washington. "It would be helpful in making the Republicans sue for peace. Obama and [Senate minority leader] Harry Reid believe that."

Twitter was abuzz about the interview, with some sharing Valliere's opinion.

While Valliere said the Democratic president and his chief Senate lieutenant are playing a dangerous game, the political advantage so far has been Obama's.

"All of the players in this game are playing with fire," he said. "This is hardball at its most brutal. They're not inclined to compromise. They want to make the markets squirm."

These are dangerous people folks.

There was a news report the other day that a national park employee, I think a park ranger that has a home (which he owns) on federal land.He was told he would have to vacate the property due to the shutdown.

[Memorex]

:D

https://www.facebook.com/Healthcare.gov

Obamacare sticker shock will not affect millions of low-income Americans; a New York Times analysis published on Wednesday found that Obamacare "will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help."

I'm curious - how does it leave them out? I don't understand. I thought anyone could sign up. Why would a poor black person or single mom be denied coverage? Serious question.

[The Sushi Hunter]

They are feeling the heat folks...



Fifty-seven House Democrats have broken ranks with Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Minority Whip Steny Hoyer to vote with Republicans to fund parts of the government like veterans programs, national parks and the National Institutes of Health.

Sixteen of those Democrats voted for all six targeted appropriations bills, introduced at the behest of House Speaker John Boehner, including measures to fund the National Guard and Reserve, NIH, national parks, the District of Columbia and two separate votes for veterans programs. (The House of Representatives voted twice to restore funding for veterans programs, once Oct. 1 and a second time Oct. 3.)

Pelosi......and people wonder why America has fallen into the toilet. Interesting thing about Pelosi is she became a multi-millionaire during her political career. Government shutdown won't effect her either because she's still getting her paycheck. She'd have a friggin meltdown if she didn't.

[The Sushi Hunter]

""I'm curious - how does it leave them out? I don't understand. I thought anyone could sign up. Why would a poor black person or single mom be denied coverage? Serious question.""





I need to redo that answer after reading the New York Times article mentioned above. You see, it's all Republicans fault because of the 20 odd States that have rejected the Medicaid Expansion and haven't opened the exchanges. Without the Medicare expansion in their states the poor aren't getting more fedgov handout dollars for care, and because they don't work or are underemployed they don't qualify for Federal subsidies on their tax returns to help pay for insurance. So those rascally Republicans are to blame........errr...wait...didn't TNC say the Supremes ruled on this and we should accept the outcome??? Well The Supreme decision left that provision to the States to decide so its the Supremes fault and those poor souls just are going to have to like it.

Would them already having government assistance have anything to do with it? Perhaps because they are already covered with government assistance and benefits the system won't allow them to "double dip" on benefits. That's unfair, they need to unfix that bug.

[Boomchild]

I'm curious - how does it leave them out? I don't understand. I thought anyone could sign up. Why would a poor black person or single mom be denied coverage? Serious question.

I would think that poor i.e. at or below the federal poverty level would qualify for Medicare and in some or most states Medicaid programs.

[Boomchild]

Pelosi......and people wonder why America has fallen into the toilet. Interesting thing about Pelosi is she became a multi-millionaire during her political career. Government shutdown won't effect her either because she's still getting her paycheck. She'd have a friggin meltdown if she didn't.

And you can bet she won't flinch at taking the reduced price deal B.O. cut for all of them. After all at her income level and most of the others this is a burden to them. Makes me want to puke.

[The_Noble_Cause]

even David Stockman, former director of the Office of Management and Budget says Obamacare is not well thought out...

And this should surprise us just, "why", exactly? Stockman is/was a lifelong Conservative and one of the creative braintrusts behind Supply Side voodoo economics. Funny how 3 of Reagan's top economic officials (Stockman, Roberts, and Bartlett) all now admit that supply side economics is a sham and that the GOP's economic policy is a joke. Stockman, by his own admission, was wrong on supply side. He's prolly wrong on Obamacare too.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Sorry, it's not that simple. A lot more goes into how laws are made then just a Presidential election. If that was the case then we would not have a Congress nor a Senate.

Laws aren't made by defunding the government, you dolt! The law was already passed and upheld. If the GOP wants to repeal, they should get a veto proof majority or win the presidency. They can't win on their ideas, so they resort to these radical tactics. Imagine if the Dems defunded the government over a gay marriage bill or abortion bill. Outrageous.

[pinkfloyd1973]

Nearly every other country (capitalist, socialist, or otherwise) spends less per GDP on healthcare than the US. Besides, everybody knows that Conservatives don't actually care things like spending, the national debt, or the deficit anyway.

Just because "it" works in one culture/society doesn't mean it will work in another. America is made up of groups who take from the system and not pay into it. Individuals within the US Government are in the business of creating the rules/laws but don't want the financial responsibilities that come with such rules/laws. So they create OBamacare. Basically they want to provide handout in the form of healthcare but want citizens to pay for it.

What's so hard about: You don't work, you can't get healthcare, you're not a citizen of America, you don't get healthcare. Fuck! I'd like to see someone with no money and not a resident of Mexico go to Mexico and get healthcare or a drivers license Try that shit in Japan and they'd have you out on the next flight. People get more rights after they commit a crime in this country. If I quit my job, lived homeless on the street, I'd get more in benefits from the American Government than I do when I work hard and pay taxes. America's all fucked up period!

Applause

[Memorex]

Sorry, it's not that simple. A lot more goes into how laws are made then just a Presidential election. If that was the case then we would not have a Congress nor a Senate.

Laws aren't made by defunding the government, you dolt! The law was already passed and upheld. If the GOP wants to repeal, they should get a veto proof majority or win the presidency. They can't win on their ideas, so they resort to these radical tactics. Imagine if the Dems defunded the government over a gay marriage bill or abortion bill. Outrageous.

How many laws are circumvented by executive orders or directives. For instance, Obama has said to stop deporting certain immigrants. How is that upholding the law? But he does it by directing the resources under him, not changing the law. It is well within congress' right to defund something. That's their job.

It's like talking points with you. Yes, free health care SOUNDS awesome. Defunding the government SOUNDS stupid. But the republicans and democrats play the game the EXACT SAME WAY.

[AR]

The government shutdown hasn't affected me at all. Keep it shutdown.

Hilarious how the IRS isn't closed isn't it?