President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:59 pm

Obama goes full fucking NeoCon:


Obama to set out proposal to end NSA's mass collection of phone data
Administration plan would require NSA to seek a court order to search phone records held by telecoms companies
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... ection-end

But here's the money shot that invalidates the whole thing, and proves this is another end around, around judicial process..

But the bill would allow the government to collect electronic communications records based on "reasonable articulable suspicion", rather than probable cause or relevance to a terrorism investigation, from someone deemed to be an agent of a foreign power, associated with an agent of a foreign power, or "in contact with, or known to, a suspected agent of a foreign power."

A draft of the bill acquired by the Guardian proposes the acquisition of such phone or email data for up to a year and would not necessarily require prior approval by a judge. Authorisation of the collection would come jointly from the US attorney general and director of national intelligence



.. and notice it says nothing about erasing or destroying the already collected metadata and records..

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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:18 pm

It's irrelevant. Do you not understand that the NSA was receiving such info before the Patriot Act and such made it 'legal'? There are other ways around it...including using foreign countries to spy on the US and give the NSA the info. It's slight of hand, "hey, look at me over here doing this!" while something else is going on that nobody is paying attention to.

If they want phone records, or a digital copy of every satellite and internet communication being made, the NSA will get it. The info is too valuable to not have. Anybody who believes this began in 'recent history' or will end in the 'near future' is pretty naive.

slucero wrote:Obama goes full fucking NeoCon:


Obama to set out proposal to end NSA's mass collection of phone data
Administration plan would require NSA to seek a court order to search phone records held by telecoms companies
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... ection-end

But here's the money shot that invalidates the whole thing, and proves this is another end around, around judicial process..

But the bill would allow the government to collect electronic communications records based on "reasonable articulable suspicion", rather than probable cause or relevance to a terrorism investigation, from someone deemed to be an agent of a foreign power, associated with an agent of a foreign power, or "in contact with, or known to, a suspected agent of a foreign power."

A draft of the bill acquired by the Guardian proposes the acquisition of such phone or email data for up to a year and would not necessarily require prior approval by a judge. Authorisation of the collection would come jointly from the US attorney general and director of national intelligence



.. and notice it says nothing about erasing or destroying the already collected metadata and records..
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:46 am

Monker wrote:It's irrelevant. Do you not understand that the NSA was receiving such info before the Patriot Act and such made it 'legal'? There are other ways around it...including using foreign countries to spy on the US and give the NSA the info. It's slight of hand, "hey, look at me over here doing this!" while something else is going on that nobody is paying attention to.

If they want phone records, or a digital copy of every satellite and internet communication being made, the NSA will get it. The info is too valuable to not have. Anybody who believes this began in 'recent history' or will end in the 'near future' is pretty naive.



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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:28 am

slucero wrote:Obama goes full fucking NeoCon:


Obama to set out proposal to end NSA's mass collection of phone data
Administration plan would require NSA to seek a court order to search phone records held by telecoms companies
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... ection-end

But here's the money shot that invalidates the whole thing, and proves this is another end around, around judicial process..

But the bill would allow the government to collect electronic communications records based on "reasonable articulable suspicion", rather than probable cause or relevance to a terrorism investigation, from someone deemed to be an agent of a foreign power, associated with an agent of a foreign power, or "in contact with, or known to, a suspected agent of a foreign power."

A draft of the bill acquired by the Guardian proposes the acquisition of such phone or email data for up to a year and would not necessarily require prior approval by a judge. Authorisation of the collection would come jointly from the US attorney general and director of national intelligence



.. and notice it says nothing about erasing or destroying the already collected metadata and records..


Personally I don't believe anything B.O. and his administration says. So they will just keep on doing what they have been doing just in a different way. Long live the Fuhrer!
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:29 pm

slucero wrote:
Monker wrote:It's irrelevant. Do you not understand that the NSA was receiving such info before the Patriot Act and such made it 'legal'? There are other ways around it...including using foreign countries to spy on the US and give the NSA the info. It's slight of hand, "hey, look at me over here doing this!" while something else is going on that nobody is paying attention to.

If they want phone records, or a digital copy of every satellite and internet communication being made, the NSA will get it. The info is too valuable to not have. Anybody who believes this began in 'recent history' or will end in the 'near future' is pretty naive.



Do you not understand we don't give a fuck what you think?


Doesn't bother me at all.

All that is happening is what W made 'legal' and easier to do is now going to be made 'ilegal' and harder to do. It doesn't mean that it was not being done before, and that it won't continue being done after.

All you need to do is read about Echelon.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:38 pm

Monker wrote:
slucero wrote:
Monker wrote:It's irrelevant. Do you not understand that the NSA was receiving such info before the Patriot Act and such made it 'legal'? There are other ways around it...including using foreign countries to spy on the US and give the NSA the info. It's slight of hand, "hey, look at me over here doing this!" while something else is going on that nobody is paying attention to.

If they want phone records, or a digital copy of every satellite and internet communication being made, the NSA will get it. The info is too valuable to not have. Anybody who believes this began in 'recent history' or will end in the 'near future' is pretty naive.



Do you not understand we don't give a fuck what you think?


Doesn't bother me at all.

All that is happening is what W made 'legal' and easier to do is now going to be made 'ilegal' and harder to do. It doesn't mean that it was not being done before, and that it won't continue being done after.

All you need to do is read about Echelon.


Here is a pretty good article about the history of all of this. If you think for one moment the NSA is going to give up this ability, you're insane:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/echelon-to ... am/5342646
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:38 am

Monker wrote:
Doesn't bother me at all.

All that is happening is what W made 'legal' and easier to do is now going to be made 'ilegal' and harder to do. It doesn't mean that it was not being done before, and that it won't continue being done after.

All you need to do is read about Echelon.

Here is a pretty good article about the history of all of this. If you think for one moment the NSA is going to give up this ability, you're insane:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/echelon-to ... am/5342646



I know what Echelon is. And they aren't making it illegal either.. they're simply redefining the process... whilst eliminating the previously required use of judicial oversight to only now be required when they deem it necessary... whilst expanding the definition of who they can surveil.

...and I don't think they (meaning the government) will give it up... ever. That die has already been cast. Surveillance state here we come.

Doesn't mean I can't still believe it's wrong.. because it is.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Memorex » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:18 pm

It's amazing how far the people have sunk in their willingness to let government make choices. Yea, we vote and we change guard every so often, but has anything in government improved in decades? We get farther and farther away from what we believe we are. We fear government and we feel like we have no control. It has gotten to the point, in my opinion, that government has gotten too big for the people to ever have a voice again. And it has been that way for a very long time.

Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.

We are in the midst of the single most secretive, manipulative, and bullying administration in the history of this country and all it seems to have done is scare people into submission. As I've said before, when hard working Democrats began defending all that is going on, we were sunk. Dems like big government and I'm not a big government guy. But their intentions used to be noble. Even if you didn't agree with them, they were a loud voice in keeping 'the man' in check. They did the dirty work. They have laid down in so many things that they used to lose sleep over. And now they argue for its virtue. It's frustrating to witness. As far as Republicans. I've never been involved in or witnessed a circle jerk, but I bet it looks a lot like the GOP.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:36 pm

slucero wrote:
Monker wrote:
Doesn't bother me at all.

All that is happening is what W made 'legal' and easier to do is now going to be made 'ilegal' and harder to do. It doesn't mean that it was not being done before, and that it won't continue being done after.

All you need to do is read about Echelon.

Here is a pretty good article about the history of all of this. If you think for one moment the NSA is going to give up this ability, you're insane:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/echelon-to ... am/5342646



I know what Echelon is. And they aren't making it illegal either.. they're simply redefining the process... whilst eliminating the previously required use of judicial oversight to only now be required when they deem it necessary... whilst expanding the definition of who they can surveil.

...and I don't think they (meaning the government) will give it up... ever. That die has already been cast. Surveillance state here we come.

Doesn't mean I can't still believe it's wrong.. because it is.


If you knew about Echelon, or even read the link I gave, you would know your post makes very little sense.

Getting 'judicial approval', or anything else is irrelevant. Even that article described how internet traffic is monitored in England. Therefore, if your post happened to pass through England's bit of the Internet backbone, or whatever, then it was stored and filtered by England. Tell me how the US Justice system has any authority over England monitoring the internet and giving the NSA that info.

What Obama says is not only 'wrong', it's irrelevant because the US is in partnership with other allies to SHARE THIS INFO...and the US has no authority over England, Australia, etc spy programs. Even in the US, if England controls the monitoring stations and hands the data over to the NSA, it's perfectly legal and there is nothing the US government can do about it. What do you think happened prior to W? The truth is the NSA just doesn't want to give control back to foreign nations...but I'm sure they would do that before they gave up the data completely.

Surveillance state here we come? It's been documented since the 70's...and suspected to have been going on since the 50's. You were born into it.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:47 pm

Memorex wrote:Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.


That is just laughable paranoia. "Government" is not efficient or clever enough to manipulate and do any of the above. Funny how some of the very people who claim government can not run a website will willingly believe it is capable of mass manipulation of the public.

In the end, they gather the data because they can...and are very inefficient about using it in any way.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:45 pm

Monker wrote:
Memorex wrote:Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.


That is just laughable paranoia. "Government" is not efficient or clever enough to manipulate and do any of the above. Funny how some of the very people who claim government can not run a website will willingly believe it is capable of mass manipulation of the public.

In the end, they gather the data because they can...and are very inefficient about using it in any way.


I do agree the government is not efficient or clever enough to do anything with the data. That they had to admit all the data collection has prevented no terrorism attacks proves that.

But "Because they can"... still does not make it "right".

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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:47 pm

Monker wrote:
slucero wrote:
Monker wrote:
Doesn't bother me at all.

All that is happening is what W made 'legal' and easier to do is now going to be made 'ilegal' and harder to do. It doesn't mean that it was not being done before, and that it won't continue being done after.

All you need to do is read about Echelon.

Here is a pretty good article about the history of all of this. If you think for one moment the NSA is going to give up this ability, you're insane:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/echelon-to ... am/5342646



I know what Echelon is. And they aren't making it illegal either.. they're simply redefining the process... whilst eliminating the previously required use of judicial oversight to only now be required when they deem it necessary... whilst expanding the definition of who they can surveil.

...and I don't think they (meaning the government) will give it up... ever. That die has already been cast. Surveillance state here we come.

Doesn't mean I can't still believe it's wrong.. because it is.


If you knew about Echelon, or even read the link I gave, you would know your post makes very little sense.

Getting 'judicial approval', or anything else is irrelevant. Even that article described how internet traffic is monitored in England. Therefore, if your post happened to pass through England's bit of the Internet backbone, or whatever, then it was stored and filtered by England. Tell me how the US Justice system has any authority over England monitoring the internet and giving the NSA that info.

What Obama says is not only 'wrong', it's irrelevant because the US is in partnership with other allies to SHARE THIS INFO...and the US has no authority over England, Australia, etc spy programs. Even in the US, if England controls the monitoring stations and hands the data over to the NSA, it's perfectly legal and there is nothing the US government can do about it. What do you think happened prior to W? The truth is the NSA just doesn't want to give control back to foreign nations...but I'm sure they would do that before they gave up the data completely.

Surveillance state here we come? It's been documented since the 70's...and suspected to have been going on since the 50's. You were born into it.



if its so irrelevant... to you... why comment on it at all? Just leave us to our righteousness..

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Memorex » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:39 pm

Monker wrote:
Memorex wrote:Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.


That is just laughable paranoia. "Government" is not efficient or clever enough to manipulate and do any of the above. Funny how some of the very people who claim government can not run a website will willingly believe it is capable of mass manipulation of the public.

In the end, they gather the data because they can...and are very inefficient about using it in any way.


I think the government cares far more about manipulation than some web site. And if people like Snowden were building websites, it would have gotten done right the first time. The most intelligent people are not wasting time on websites, they are in the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland, etc.

It's not paranoia when it's actually occurring. And don't think I am saying it's an Obama issue. He's just your basic Hippocratic about it is all. It's the whole of government which has now extended to the current administration's cheerleaders (including the press). It's both parties.

Here's what scares me the most - that you don't care. That you think it's ok. That you believe no one in government could/would use it. How about asking hey - why you spending all this tax money on this shit if it's of no use? There are far better ways to spend that kind of money, no?
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby steveo777 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:55 pm

Memorex wrote:
Monker wrote:
Memorex wrote:Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.


That is just laughable paranoia. "Government" is not efficient or clever enough to manipulate and do any of the above. Funny how some of the very people who claim government can not run a website will willingly believe it is capable of mass manipulation of the public.

In the end, they gather the data because they can...and are very inefficient about using it in any way.


I think the government cares far more about manipulation than some web site. And if people like Snowden were building websites, it would have gotten done right the first time. The most intelligent people are not wasting time on websites, they are in the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland, etc.

It's not paranoia when it's actually occurring. And don't think I am saying it's an Obama issue. He's just your basic Hippocratic about it is all. It's the whole of government which has now extended to the current administration's cheerleaders (including the press). It's both parties.

Here's what scares me the most - that you don't care. That you think it's ok. That you believe no one in government could/would use it. How about asking hey - why you spending all this tax money on this shit if it's of no use? There are far better ways to spend that kind of money, no?


You think he doesn't care....where have you been dude?
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:45 am

Memorex wrote:It's amazing how far the people have sunk in their willingness to let government make choices. Yea, we vote and we change guard every so often, but has anything in government improved in decades? We get farther and farther away from what we believe we are. We fear government and we feel like we have no control. It has gotten to the point, in my opinion, that government has gotten too big for the people to ever have a voice again. And it has been that way for a very long time.

Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.

We are in the midst of the single most secretive, manipulative, and bullying administration in the history of this country and all it seems to have done is scare people into submission. As I've said before, when hard working Democrats began defending all that is going on, we were sunk. Dems like big government and I'm not a big government guy. But their intentions used to be noble. Even if you didn't agree with them, they were a loud voice in keeping 'the man' in check. They did the dirty work. They have laid down in so many things that they used to lose sleep over. And now they argue for its virtue. It's frustrating to witness. As far as Republicans. I've never been involved in or witnessed a circle jerk, but I bet it looks a lot like the GOP.


What's been going on has not impacted peoples everyday lives enough. When it does then people will start to wake up. The question is, by that time will it be too late. It seems to me that people don't learn from history and therefore just repeat their mistakes.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:12 am

slucero wrote:if its so irrelevant... to you... why comment on it at all? Just leave us to our righteousness..


Have a problem with dissenting opinions, Slucero? Monker is the only reason I periodically read this thread (and I'm sure there are closet-liberal MR posters who feel the same).

slucero wrote:Do you not understand we don't give a fuck what you think?


Who is this "we" - do you own this forum, Slucero? Facts to a conservative is like offering ex-lax to an IBS sufferer. Keep speaking truth to power, Monk!
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:22 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Food for thought. I see at least seven of these being worked on, or already done.

How To Create a Social State

By Saul Alinsky

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a Social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people...


It's too funny, late nite comedians always crack jokes about little old grandmas falling hook, line, and sinker for Nigerian chain emails. Turns out that's the GOP's biggest constituency! How dumb, gullible, or willfully evil does someone have to be to circulate a political spam email w/out even running so much as a cursory Google fact check? Here's some food for thought - don't believe everything you read, schmucko. :roll:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/alinsky.asp
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:24 am



I enjoy PCR for what he is, but he is an admitted 9-11 truther and plays very very loose with facts. Are you a 9-11 truther, Slucero? Do you really think Bush attacked America? You sick anti-American fuck.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:12 am

Memorex wrote:
Monker wrote:
Memorex wrote:Why should the government think it's ok to do things that the majority doesn't want? Because the majority never does a single thing about it. And we can't. Anyone who thinks all this data collection is for security is an idiot. It's to be used to manipulate all facets of the public. That's it. Make you walk on the right side of the street. Make you think twice about saying anything negative. Make you NEVER question law enforcement. Make your vote no longer count. And let our so called journalists (what a joke they have become) do the governments bidding. We have zero control as a people. Sucks.


That is just laughable paranoia. "Government" is not efficient or clever enough to manipulate and do any of the above. Funny how some of the very people who claim government can not run a website will willingly believe it is capable of mass manipulation of the public.

In the end, they gather the data because they can...and are very inefficient about using it in any way.


I think the government cares far more about manipulation than some web site. And if people like Snowden were building websites, it would have gotten done right the first time. The most intelligent people are not wasting time on websites, they are in the CIA, NSA, FBI, Homeland, etc.

It's not paranoia when it's actually occurring. And don't think I am saying it's an Obama issue. He's just your basic Hippocratic about it is all. It's the whole of government which has now extended to the current administration's cheerleaders (including the press). It's both parties.

Here's what scares me the most - that you don't care. That you think it's ok. That you believe no one in government could/would use it. How about asking hey - why you spending all this tax money on this shit if it's of no use? There are far better ways to spend that kind of money, no?


What should scare you the most is this has gone on for decades and has nothing to do with the President, or Presidential power. The NSA, and all of the other secret services, operate with an agenda of power, obtaining it and keeping it. Republican/Democrat doesn't matter...they do what they want to regardless. They don't give a damn about us peons, they care about anybody who threatens their power. That is who they pay attention to.

The true evidence on how this ability is being used points to Nixonian tactics of spying to gain a political edge, spying on our allies and other foreign power brokers. There is no evidence that some nobody was spied on to ensure he voted a certain way or whatever...nobody cares about that - because who is in office doesn't matter.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Memorex » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:11 am

Monker wrote:What should scare you the most is this has gone on for decades and has nothing to do with the President, or Presidential power. The NSA, and all of the other secret services, operate with an agenda of power, obtaining it and keeping it. Republican/Democrat doesn't matter...they do what they want to regardless. They don't give a damn about us peons, they care about anybody who threatens their power. That is who they pay attention to.

The true evidence on how this ability is being used points to Nixonian tactics of spying to gain a political edge, spying on our allies and other foreign power brokers. There is no evidence that some nobody was spied on to ensure he voted a certain way or whatever...nobody cares about that - because who is in office doesn't matter.


Yes, my point exactly. Except - this time the Dems defend it.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sat Mar 29, 2014 7:34 am

LOL...even this is wrong. Did you even go to the Snopes link? At the bottom it clearly states this is from the BOOK "Rules Folr Radicals" and is a list of "power tactics"...and it is is somewhat misquoted, and the bits in parenthesis are comments not written by Allinsky.

Frankly, it reads like Sun Tsu's "Art of War" anyway...and EVERY politician probably follows this list in one way or another. Karl Rove certainly does.

From the Snopes site:

Always remember the first rule of power tactics: Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

The sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

The seventh rule: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment, like going to church on Sunday mornings.

The eighth rule: Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

The ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.

The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative.

The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. You cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his sudden agreement with your demand and saying "You're right — we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/a ... AYo8OZV.99


K.C.Journey Fan wrote:TNC is correct about that list. I found out about it two days ago, but since Obama and Liberals are keeping lock step with it, I left it there for people to see. See if this makes things better for ya,TNC.

Saul Alinsky’s 12 Rules for Radicals

Here is the complete list from Alinsky.

* RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
* RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
* RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
* RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
* RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
* RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
* RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:01 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:


I enjoy PCR for what he is, but he is an admitted 9-11 truther and plays very very loose with facts. Are you a 9-11 truther, Slucero? Do you really think Bush attacked America? You sick anti-American fuck.



lmao... both parties play "loose with the facts"...

Did you really think Obama was gonna let you "keep your insurance, if you like it"?? Repeal the Patriot Act like he campaigned he would?


Your rose colored glasses are a bit fogged up mouth-breather.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:55 pm

slucero wrote:lmao... both parties play "loose with the facts"...


Paul Craig Roberts is NOT a party. He is an online columnist and former Reagan official and a prominent 9-11 Truther. Nice dodge. I'll ask again, since you are in the habit of posting links to his website, are you a 9-11 Truther?

slucero wrote:Did you really think Obama was gonna let you "keep your insurance, if you like it"??

My cadillac insurance has not been affected one way or the other. If you lost your benefits, odds are you had a pretty shitty job/life to begin with. In the words of your fellow GOPers, go pick yourself up by your bootstraps and stop being a food stamp collecting wastrel.

slucero wrote:Your rose colored glasses are a bit fogged up mouth-breather.


And this has exactly WHAT to do with you posting links to a 9-11 Truther website? No wonder you're so paranoid about the government spying on you. You already think they killed approx. 3000 US citizens. Sick, sick, sick, fuck.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sat Mar 29, 2014 4:06 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Sad part about it is the first eight I posted, Obama is following step by step, and Monker and TNC love it. I'm simply letting people see JUST WHAT YOU STAND FOR. Sorry if you don't like the exposure.


Lol. Yea, whatever. I bet Karl Rove just loves your sweet, non-critical thinking ass. The propaganda goes out Monday morning and by that afternoon, idiots like you have ripped and read it all over the internet. Here's an image: somewhere in a remote uninhabitable jungle region of Brazil, a small conclave of elderly Nazis is huddled around a laptop, reading MR.com, and admiring your proficient use of Joseph Goebbels strategy. Take a bow, useful pawn, take a bow.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby AR » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:39 am

There should be a required ID to vote.

THAT bothers me. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on. If a police officer can pull my ass over for no reason and ask for ID then voting should at least require that.

PERIOD.

That is all I ask. So logical.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:14 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:TNC, anyone with a brain can see Obama following all eight to a tee. I guess that leaves you out. I think everyone on the board knows where you stand. Please be around with your tantrums and hate this November so MOST of us can have a good laugh. I admitted I posted that without checking it out. It was so ON THE MONEY AND TRUE, why should I have doubted it?


Well, I'll put this way. If somebody reads that list and right away thinks "Obama!", then their opinion is so biased that it really isn't worth listening to.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:07 pm

AR wrote:There should be a required ID to vote.

THAT bothers me. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you are on. If a police officer can pull my ass over for no reason and ask for ID then voting should at least require that.

PERIOD.

That is all I ask. So logical.


Screw the Photo I.D. to vote option. Go with a thumb print identification system. Then it will cost the voter nothing since they won't have to pay for an I.D. card. Eliminates the excuse that some people can't afford the cost of a I.D. card.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:21 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Sorry Monker, but the "personal attack, change the subject"move won't work. Obama is in "Goose Step" with all eight. Who ever wrote that was very much paying attention. All you and TNC have tried to do is deflect and attack. doesn't fly this time.


Wow. You really think you've uncovered the Obama bombshell of the decade, don't ya? :roll:
If it seems like I am deflecting your (admittedly inaccurate) Alinsky list, it's because I am.
Not because you have me pinned to the bedpost like some BDSM sparring partner or found my membership card to the Mao library of little red books, but because your list is a bunch of generalities that can be applied to ANY political figure in ANY political party in ANY nation state. Don't you realize that? Or did you only take a vested interested in the political system when a big scary negro won the Presidency? Obama, the war starting, HMO enriching, surveillance state expanding moderate is only radical to political neophytes whose knowledge of the presidency extends to Martin Sheen on NBC's The West Wing. Or maybe Bill Pullman in Independence Day. If anything, Alinksy would be standing with Cornell West calling for Obama's impeachment. You want to talk about creating a social state? Let's talk about Reagan's earned income credit, which provides thousands in assistance to those on the lowest end of the economic ladder, especially if they pop out unwed babies like cook-a-rochas in a North Hollywood Mexican taco stand. In short: you sound like an ignorant boob. Wise up.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby verslibre » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:04 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Let's talk about Reagan's earned income credit, which provides thousands in assistance to those on the lowest end of the economic ladder, especially if they pop out unwed babies like cook-a-rochas in a North Hollywood Mexican taco stand.


Yeah, whites don't do that. Said nobody ever. :lol:
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:39 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:Sorry Monker, but the "personal attack, change the subject"move won't work. Obama is in "Goose Step" with all eight. Who ever wrote that was very much paying attention. All you and TNC have tried to do is deflect and attack. doesn't fly this time.


Personal attack? Whatever...there was none.

As TNC said, this is such a generic list that it could apply to ANYBODY. So, if someone reads that list and thinks "Obama!'" they are so biased that their opinion means absolutely nothing. There are real issues that matter...this list reminds me of the crap Glen Beck talks about. It's just bullshit.
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