President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Memorex]

Wow. What a mind-bogglingly ignorant statement.

Twelve percent of the world's population would be displaced with a sea level rise of just 20 feet. Double that, and the number hits 33%. Now, I know Republicans have no idea how local, regional, national, or global economies work, but it doesn't take a Koch brother to realize the permanent and catastrophic damage that would occur as a consequence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/22/science/earth/seeking-clues-about-sea-level-from-fossil-beaches.html?hp&_r=0

You obviously missed my point. My point is that just because populations evolve to live near shorelines and just because humans are where they are means very little to mother earth and what the sea level is. Jesus, how did you not get that from my statement? Just because much of the world's population would be displaced doesn't mean oceans will be kind enough not to rise. It's ignorant of humans to think that just because we want something we will get it. I'm sure earth has wiped out many people in a very uncomfortable and inconvenient way all through the history of life.

If scientists released information today about a discovery showing that a distant planet was barren, but at one time hosted intelligent life, and stated that the elements caused the extinction of such life, we would probably think "of course". Life forms cannot live forever in one place. The universe does not support that. So millions or billions of people being displaced by a rising ocean is nature. If we can't come to grips with that, we're beyond fucked. Because in no way will the ocean stay the same level forever. IMPOSSIBLE.

How about those people that bought lake front property ten years ago that now have to walk a mile and a half to see the water? Duh. Shit happens. It will be back. But I bet if the lake rises to the point of flooding their house, they sure will be pissed.

When I was a kid, the California lakes had all receded. Quite a bit, actually. Then they were just fine. Now they are down again. Guess what will happen next....

I will say this. For all that is happening, the droughts are very serious. I think it will be a terrible time as cities run out of water. I fear that society will not know how to deal with it and it could turn very bad, very fast. I hope climate change bullshit doesn't stop our leaders and citizens from coming up with real solutions. I hope everyone here is loaded up with emergency supplies and such.

PS. Koch brothers? Seriously? You buy into that? On the list of spenders they are like 50 something. They spend a lot less than the folks that support the other side of whatever it is they support. But is this the new monster under the bed?

[Memorex]

Wow. Did you even read the article you linked to? You proved my point ENTIRELY.

Yes, there is a bunch of stuff about humans yadda yadda global warming yadda yadda fastest rise ever yadda yadda.

But here you have a find that puts the ocean level 64 feet BELOW what it once was not that long ago. So a rise in 20 or 40 feet seems like a pretty reasonable cycle to me. It discusses previous warmings and how ocean levels have risen and receded. So if 13% of the population has to move, why should we be shocked and why do we think we can prevent it? It will always occur.

[Memorex]

There may be a plus side to melting polar ice caps: British scientists suggest they could hold the key to stemming global warming. According to research published in the journal Nature Communications, summer meltwaters from polar ice sheets are rich in iron, which is critical for phytoplankton growth. And what do phytoplankton do? They capture carbon dioxide emissions that scientists say are contributing to global warming.

Sweet. Now get in your SUV and drive across country. Let's save this planet!

[Seven Wishes]

You can't be serious.

What exactly should one-third of the population of the earth do in the next 75 years? Move inland? With what help? Sounds like a massive global government assistance program to me. This must be why President Lucifer wants a one-world government with him as supreme executive overlord.

Put down the reefer.

[Seven Wishes]

By the way, the Cock brothers outspent the top ten unions in America last year, if you look at the actual facts and not Kim Strassell's factoids (look up the real meaning of that word if you're not familiar with it).

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

[Memorex]

By the way, the Cock brothers outspent the top ten unions in America last year, if you look at the actual facts and not Kim Strassell's factoids (look up the real meaning of that word if you're not familiar with it).

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

I guess I do feel kind of stupid. I clicked your link and see Koch Industries at 59 and lots of unions in front of them. I admit I don't spend a lot of time on this, but they seem pretty mundane in the scheme of things.

[Seven Wishes]

The difference is, the thinly veiled "Koch Industries" moniker does nothing to diminish the fact that their collective, COMBINED contributions are over $400 million and exponentially outweigh those of any other "organization".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-backed-political-network-built-to-shield-donors-raised-400-million-in-2012-elections/2014/01/05/9e7cfd9a-719b-11e3-9389-09ef9944065e_story.html

But Together, the 17 conservative groups that made up the network raised at least $407 million during the 2012 campaign, according to the analysis of tax returns by The Washington Post and the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics.

Game, set, match.

Meanwhile, address the climate change post! With actual facts! And make sure your references are not "scientists" being directly paid by the energy conglomerates!

[Memorex]

The difference is, the thinly veiled "Koch Industries" moniker does nothing to diminish the fact that their collective, COMBINED contributions are over $400 million and exponentially outweigh those of any other "organization".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/koch-backed-political-network-built-to-shield-donors-raised-400-million-in-2012-elections/2014/01/05/9e7cfd9a-719b-11e3-9389-09ef9944065e_story.html

But Together, the 17 conservative groups that made up the network raised at least $407 million during the 2012 campaign, according to the analysis of tax returns by The Washington Post and the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks money in politics.

Game, set, match.

Meanwhile, address the climate change post! With actual facts! And make sure your references are not "scientists" being directly paid by the energy conglomerates!

My post about your global hoax post was about why we feel the need to determine what the exact ocean level should be. That's silly and stupid and arrogant. I don't need studies to tell me that. Of course the ocean will rise, as it did in the past, and of course it will fall, as it has in the past. Don't we both already agree on that? So what's to argue. Oh yea - you think if we come up with alternative energy we can make sure the ocean stays the same level. Ha ha ha ha. That's beyond funny.

There are lots of studies and facts out there indicating that man made shit is not doing the harm that others believe. I believe it does harm - of course, but not the horror stories that are agenda driven. And there are recent stories about how any study that questions alarmists is not published for political reasons. We all know this. Right? Or am I the only one that reads?

But the point of my last posts were that we as a species should never expect that mother nature won't displace us from time to time. So when you say 13% or 36% of the world's population might have to move - I say duh, of course. I can't even fathom how someone would think that wasn't going to happen. You can't populate on the edge of something that has risen and fallen for millions of years and expect to be there forever. Why does this not make sense? I'm perplexed.

We get so shocked when people die in tornadoes. We shiver at the thought of a building falling in an earthquake. A tsunami carries people out to sea and we can't come to grips with it. Yet we populate this earth at an ever-increasing rate and we put people in places that have experienced tumultuous weather events since the dawn of time. Again I say - Duh.

At the end of the day, I can't think of anything that is happening worse now than at some point in the past. Maybe we should have been better prepared for the obvious.

[steveo777]

Global warming and climate change "pushers" are doing just that, pushing a political agenda which will transfer wealth out of people's pockets and into others. It's all political bullshit and the lefties have bought it, lock, stock and barrel. Stop being sheeple fucktards. Al Gore should be hung in public.

[Memorex]

The fact is, I think the reason people like me and other realists fight back harder is because the alarmists are so over the top. It's all these insane dire warnings. Eight years ago, Al Gore said we had 10 years to solve the problem. There has been no statistical warming since. Anyone that even thought about questioning him was labeled a quack. Yet every single quack, to this point, has been far more right than Al Gore. That is just an honest, factual statement.

Without major volcanic activity and fairly low sun activity, CO2 is still increasing. Therefore, we can assume that man-caused or lifestyle-caused events are adding CO2 to the atmosphere. I doubt anyone argues that. And yet, no statistical warming.

This last 100 year period shapes up to be one of the most stable climactic periods of the last 20,000 years.

This link below - does absolutely nothing to further my arguement, or if it does I don't know it. I just like looking at it cause it's pretty cool. Shows the current wind patterns.

http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/70hPa/orthographic=-103.42,38.04,838

I'll say this again - there is nothing going on in the world that should require the administration to create rules that put thousands upon thousands of people out of work who happen to work in an industry that should be celebrated for what it has provided this world, not demonized. And nothing is happening that should cause us to give the UN more power over us. And nothing is happening that should cause the poor and middle class of this country to suffer so much more under higher gas and energy prices. And not every weather event is a global warming crisis. Not every fire is a result of Arnold driving his hummer around. If everyone could settle the fuck down, maybe the conversation would be less angry. There is a definite need to pivot towards more efficient, cleaner technologies. We will get there when the science allows. Until then, just chill. Oh, and uh, check out this graph.

http://www.theclimatebet.com/gore.png

[Memorex]

73 models that predicted warming against actual data:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png

A good read on past predictions:
http://www.lowerwolfjaw.com/agw/quotes.htm

[artist4perry]

Global warming and climate change "pushers" are doing just that, pushing a political agenda which will transfer wealth out of people's pockets and into others. It's all political bullshit and the lefties have bought it, lock, stock and barrel. Stop being sheeple fucktards. Al Gore should be hung in public.

My feelings on the whole thing is this. Say there is such a thing. Fine...Henny Penny says the sky is falling....fine. How are we proposing to fix said sky from falling? Do we throw money at projects that have no proof will fix the problem till hopefully something works? Can you make China and India join step in stopping their rampant pollution? Seriously if we all became Amish tomorrow and no longer use any technology that harms the earth, can we be sure the rest of the world will be so impressed by our PC Earth Friendly Green living that they would join us? Can we afford all this Green living with a broken economy and trillions of dollars in debt? How are we going to stop it and who is going to be sure the funds are not squandered and given out as bonuses to idiot CEO's? The problem is that is all the Government knows how to do...we have a problem and they throw money and idiots who don't know jack to fix it. How is Education? How about Welfare? The IRS? The VA Care? See they have a tendency to massively screw stuff up all the time. So how are they going to do the green thing when they can't even take care of anything else efficiently? Not that I buy into Global warming. I feel if the money is big enough to be had...so are the scientists. The war is back and forth on this subject with scientists saying different things on both sides of the debate. So who is right and who is wrong? Regardless of who is...leaving Government to find the solution is no solution to me. That is definitely the fox guarding the hen house, and this chick is a little wary of that arrangement.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Was acid rain politicized in a similar way when Bush Sr. acted on it in the 90s? How about when Nixon acted after Lake Erie caught on fire? The answer is no. There was also no Fox News and the right wing echo chamber was still in its infancy. We are reaching a point, where no governmental action, no matter how minuscule, is exempt from being distorted into some great liberal threat to America. This country is soo fucked.

[Monker]

My God you are ignorant. This has nothing to do with "controlling the Sun." It has to do with the Earth's atmosphere and controlling what human activity pukes up into it.

If you want to research astronomy, go find some facts about Venus and explain how the surface temp is hotter then that of Mercury, even though Mercury is so much closer to the Sun. Then explain in your ignorance how adding the most abundant gas in Venus' atmosphere into the Earth's atmosphere will not make the surface temp hotter on Earth.

The greenhouse affect is not up for debate. It's a proven fact....if you can somehow disprove it, write a paper and get it published and you will be famous.

Arguing astronomy with me is an even worse idea then arguing Journey. I'll bury you.

How large is the Sun compared to Earth?


Compared to Earth, the Sun is enormous! It contains 99.86% of all of the mass of the entire Solar System. The Sun is 864,400 miles (1,391,000 kilometers) across. This is about 109 times the diameter of Earth. The Sun weighs about 333,000 times as much as Earth. It is so large that about 1,300,000 planet Earths can fit inside of it. Earth is about the size of an average sunspot!

One million, three hundred thousand Earths would fit into the Sun and yet a handful of tiny specks of human matter (politicians) on Earth want you to think they can control it. Think about that!

I'm not buying it.




The diameter of the Sun is 1,392,000 km, while the equatorial diameter of the Earth is 12,756 km. Compared to the Earth the Sun is HUGE.

[Memorex]

if you can somehow disprove it, write a paper and get it published and you will be famous.

Even if he could write the paper, he couldn't get published.

http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/85918603158/climate-mccarthyism-study-rejected-by-climate-journal

It's not a fair game Monker. You need to at least see that this is far more political and agenda-driven than science should allow. And that's why I find it difficult to support alarmists. It's not a reasonable conversation.

[Monker]

if you can somehow disprove it, write a paper and get it published and you will be famous.

Even if he could write the paper, he couldn't get published.

http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/85918603158/climate-mccarthyism-study-rejected-by-climate-journal

It's not a fair game Monker. You need to at least see that this is far more political and agenda-driven than science should allow. And that's why I find it difficult to support alarmists. It's not a reasonable conversation.

Seems to me that he has NO PROBLEM getting published...over 200 times: http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/users/users/1788

[Monker]

are you banging your shoe on the table? Seen that one before. Didn't work.

Nope...just saying you speak from ignorance...you have no clue what you are even talking about.

[Monker]

73 models that predicted warming against actual data:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png

A good read on past predictions:
http://www.lowerwolfjaw.com/agw/quotes.htm

First link, a chart that I have no idea what it is trying to say...however, a quick Google on the guy who has his name in the URL turned out that he an incredibly biased source.

The second link, newspapers like the NY TImes or LA TImes, and magazines like Newsweek are not scientific journals and are not "good reading' for past prediction. When the famous cover on Newsweek came out in the 70's proclaiming the coming ice-age,..the science was clearly pointing to global warming with the first computer models correctly predicting CO2 levels being the cause.

[Memorex]

if you can somehow disprove it, write a paper and get it published and you will be famous.

Even if he could write the paper, he couldn't get published.

http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/85918603158/climate-mccarthyism-study-rejected-by-climate-journal

It's not a fair game Monker. You need to at least see that this is far more political and agenda-driven than science should allow. And that's why I find it difficult to support alarmists. It's not a reasonable conversation.

Seems to me that he has NO PROBLEM getting published...over 200 times: http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/users/users/1788

You're right. The argument has not been politicized by the alarmists in any way. It's all on the up and up. The money definitely has no influence. Everyone's voice is heard equally. There is no one behind the scenes shifting or hiding data or pushing data to show something that isn't quite there. No one is making any claims that they don't truly believe are going to happen, even after most of their predictions and models failed. I guess I am just a loon. So we should stop challenging them and let them do what they will. I'm sorry for ever questioning their motives.

[Memorex]

73 models that predicted warming against actual data:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-73-models-vs-obs-20N-20S-MT-5-yr-means1.png

A good read on past predictions:
http://www.lowerwolfjaw.com/agw/quotes.htm

First link, a chart that I have no idea what it is trying to say...however, a quick Google on the guy who has his name in the URL turned out that he an incredibly biased source.

The second link, newspapers like the NY TImes or LA TImes, and magazines like Newsweek are not scientific journals and are not "good reading' for past prediction. When the famous cover on Newsweek came out in the 70's proclaiming the coming ice-age,..the science was clearly pointing to global warming with the first computer models correctly predicting CO2 levels being the cause.

Yea - that guy is a whack job because he believes Al Gore is wrong. And even though he has shown, no wait, history has shown, that Al Gore has so far in fact been wrong, we should label him bias. Because Gore and the whole alarmist community isn't biased at all. Just like the president and the news people keep telling us, we can no longer listen to any other argument.

That said, it was the guy's site. The graph itself is just scientific fact and he was showing it. You can find that graph all over. I mean, it's just showing a snapshot of reality. I don't think any scientists out there dispute the fact that we have not warmed in the way we we warned. Do you think the planet has warmed in the way Al Gore and the models predicted? If so, please show me that data because damn - I need to buy some extra shorts.

[Monker]

You are not "realists".

I have said in the past that Al Gore did more harm then good by making such radical statements and predictions. I have said in the past that pointing one single storm or event and saying "climate change caused this" is unrealistic and wrong.

But, saying things like "there has been no statistical warming in the past ten years" and then claiming climate change doesn't exist, or is not an issue, is IGNORING that the decade of 2000 - 2010 was the HOTTEST ON RECORD. Therefore, you are not being a realist.

It is also unrealistic to saying everything is going as nature intended. The rate of carbon going into the environment right now is higher then at anytime in the history of the world. That is scary because the last time this happened %80 of the Earth's species became extinct...due to multiple volcanic eruptions putting CO2 into the atmosphere, and a meteor striking and causing massive fires which destroyed trees which remove CO2.

That is a "worst case" scenario. But, my point is, this time it is not nature doing it. This time there is a species on the planet that is doing it. A species that KNOWS it is doing it. A species that can change its behavior to stop it from happening.

The fact is, I think the reason people like me and other realists fight back harder is because the alarmists are so over the top. It's all these insane dire warnings. Eight years ago, Al Gore said we had 10 years to solve the problem. There has been no statistical warming since. Anyone that even thought about questioning him was labeled a quack. Yet every single quack, to this point, has been far more right than Al Gore. That is just an honest, factual statement.

Without major volcanic activity and fairly low sun activity, CO2 is still increasing. Therefore, we can assume that man-caused or lifestyle-caused events are adding CO2 to the atmosphere. I doubt anyone argues that. And yet, no statistical warming.

This last 100 year period shapes up to be one of the most stable climactic periods of the last 20,000 years.

This link below - does absolutely nothing to further my arguement, or if it does I don't know it. I just like looking at it cause it's pretty cool. Shows the current wind patterns.

http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/70hPa/orthographic=-103.42,38.04,838

I'll say this again - there is nothing going on in the world that should require the administration to create rules that put thousands upon thousands of people out of work who happen to work in an industry that should be celebrated for what it has provided this world, not demonized. And nothing is happening that should cause us to give the UN more power over us. And nothing is happening that should cause the poor and middle class of this country to suffer so much more under higher gas and energy prices. And not every weather event is a global warming crisis. Not every fire is a result of Arnold driving his hummer around. If everyone could settle the fuck down, maybe the conversation would be less angry. There is a definite need to pivot towards more efficient, cleaner technologies. We will get there when the science allows. Until then, just chill. Oh, and uh, check out this graph.

http://www.theclimatebet.com/gore.png

[Monker]

Yea - that guy is a whack job because he believes Al Gore is wrong. And even though he has shown, no wait, history has shown, that Al Gore has so far in fact been wrong, we should label him bias. Because Gore and the whole alarmist community isn't biased at all. Just like the president and the news people keep telling us, we can no longer listen to any other argument.

Please do not put words in my mouth or thoughts in my head.

I did not say he is a "whack job". I said he is biased, he is.

I do not care what Al Gore says...he exaggerated to the point where he hurt the debate more then he helped it. And, yes, he is biased, too. I said that in this forum a very, very long time ago.

That said, it was the guy's site. The graph itself is just scientific fact and he was showing it. You can find that graph all over. I mean, it's just showing a snapshot of reality. I don't think any scientists out there dispute the fact that we have not warmed in the way we we warned. Do you think the planet has warmed in the way Al Gore and the models predicted? If so, please show me that data because damn - I need to buy some extra shorts.

Of course i'm not going to say any of that.

[Memorex]

Ok. Forget Al Gore. How about our current Secretary of State, a person that holds a lot of power and seems to be on a mission. How can you expect people to listen when it's just flat out lies? THAT is the problem. We can't have a REAL discussion.

Secretary of State John Kerry told an audience in Mexico on Wednesday that temperatures in Europe and in Vietnam were “unprecedented” and broke “every record that’s ever been seen.” However, although it was hot that day, he was off the mark.

Speaking at an environmentally-friendly technology event in Mexico City, Kerry said he had just caught a CNN weather report in his hotel and “saw the temperatures around the world right now.”

“Thirty-four degrees centigrade [Celsius] in Vietnam today, in May. Twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-two, thirty-three in places all around Europe,” he said. “Unprecedented. Breaks every record that’s ever been seen.”

“What we are seeing around the world is what scientists have predicted,” Kerry continued. “They’re not telling us that we may see global climate change. We are seeing it, and we’re seeing the impacts now.”

Wednesday was a hot day in Vietnam, with temperatures rising at their highest to 36 degrees celsius (96.8°F) at Tan Son Nhut international airport in Ho Chi Minh City. But according to Vietnam’s foreign ministry, the highest temperature recorded in May is 39°C (102.2°F) in Ho Chi Minh City, and 42°C (107.6°F) in Hanoi. The Hanoi record was registered in 1926.

[Monker]

Holy crap! You just proved that John Kerry is a politician. I didn't think that was possible!

Ok. Forget Al Gore. How about our current Secretary of State, a person that holds a lot of power and seems to be on a mission. How can you expect people to listen when it's just flat out lies? THAT is the problem. We can't have a REAL discussion.

Secretary of State John Kerry told an audience in Mexico on Wednesday that temperatures in Europe and in Vietnam were “unprecedented” and broke “every record that’s ever been seen.” However, although it was hot that day, he was off the mark.

Speaking at an environmentally-friendly technology event in Mexico City, Kerry said he had just caught a CNN weather report in his hotel and “saw the temperatures around the world right now.”

“Thirty-four degrees centigrade [Celsius] in Vietnam today, in May. Twenty-nine, thirty, thirty-two, thirty-three in places all around Europe,” he said. “Unprecedented. Breaks every record that’s ever been seen.”

“What we are seeing around the world is what scientists have predicted,” Kerry continued. “They’re not telling us that we may see global climate change. We are seeing it, and we’re seeing the impacts now.”

Wednesday was a hot day in Vietnam, with temperatures rising at their highest to 36 degrees celsius (96.8°F) at Tan Son Nhut international airport in Ho Chi Minh City. But according to Vietnam’s foreign ministry, the highest temperature recorded in May is 39°C (102.2°F) in Ho Chi Minh City, and 42°C (107.6°F) in Hanoi. The Hanoi record was registered in 1926.

[Memorex]

Holy crap! You just proved that John Kerry is a politician. I didn't think that was possible!

Good one.

[Memorex]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/climate-scientists-mixed-over-controversy-surrounding-respected-researcher-a-971033.html

[Memorex]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/26/sponsors-of-pentagons-alarm-raising-climate-study-/

[Boomchild]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/may/26/sponsors-of-pentagons-alarm-raising-climate-study-/

Just re-affirms for me that when humans are involved there is always the possibility of corruption tainting the picture being painted.

[Boomchild]

Who is B.O. trying to fool here? We'll never completely pull out of Afghanistan. Sure it all sounds good in a speech but something will come along and the plan will change. I think we should pull out now. If their own military\police forces have not figured out how to create a safe environment for their citizens, they most likely never will.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/ob ... an-n115421

[Monker]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/climate-scientists-mixed-over-controversy-surrounding-respected-researcher-a-971033.html

Just a small amount of research shows he is a climate change believer...but does NOT believe in the over-dramatic predictions that some make. Pretty much where I stand. In fact, I read one article he wrote where he goes off into chaos theory and how that proves that it is impossible to predict climate years in advance....which is pretty much what I have said over the years. We are doing a huge experiment with the planet and nobody truly knows what the outcome will be.

Then he goes and joins a radical anti-climate change organization....Let's say you are a Republican and then join some type of communist organization. Do you not believe that person would be shunned in the Republican party? That is essentially what he did...

....but now he changed his mind and backed out of that organization. Personally, I have to question if he really knew what he was getting involved with.