President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:21 pm

ohsherrie wrote:Boomchild, this country created the instability in the Middle East when we took out Saddam Hussein. He was a cruel, corrupt dictator but he had no connection to 911 and that war was not justified.


I beg to differ on that point. The Middle East has never been "stable". Mainly due to the sectarian violence within the Islamic sects. So the U.S. did not create the instability it was already there. By us meddling in it we have only made it worse. It's my opinion that the U.S. should pull out of the entire area and cease all aid (military and financial) to the countries in that region. For me, no matter what angle you look at the situation it will be a losing battle. We cannot fix what they themselves have not been able to for centuries.

ohsherrie wrote:I'm no longer laying it all on Bush. He was the reason this all started during his administration but he was also the result of a problem that already existed. He like President Obama was in charge of guiding a corrupt system. Bush just didn't have the personal integrity that Obama is so desperately trying to hold onto. Bush intentionally misguided this country. Obama has made wel meaning mistakes.


B.O. has ZERO personal integrity. He is no different from any other politician in our government. While things may look like mistakes they really are not. They are purposely done with a thin veil to make you think they are mistakes. It's my firm belief that B.O. feels that the U.S. has had too much power and influence in the world and needs to be taken down a notch. He thinks this nation's wealth needs to be redistributed to rest of the world. He is using things like ratcheting up the national debt as weapon against ourselves. All the while making it look like he is creating things to help the country.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:26 pm

trekman wrote: They will be the first ones to hide behind everyone thats preparing now.


Actually they will be the first to go with a look of confusion and bewilderment on their faces.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:14 am

Boomchild, thank you for your response. We obviously have some political differences of opinions but I’m not interested in arguing politics on here. I learned the futility of that several years ago and I don’t support any current politician enough to argue for them. I don’t think any current candidate or party philosophy can fix the problems in this country because the system itself is so corrupt and the corruption has infiltrated so deeply into our culture and society that it seems to have become accepted practice.

It’s in everything from our economy to our mainstream religions. It’s in our college and pro sports. It’s in our media and our military. Saddest of all it’s in our educational and healthcare systems.

The NRA has more influence on our legislators than the homeless and hungry left from the last financial debacle caused by the greed that breeds the corruption.

We don’t need more immigrants and refugees. We need to focus on the CITIZENS of this country and clean our own house first.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:00 am

ohsherrie wrote:Boomchild, thank you for your response. We obviously have some political differences of opinions but I’m not interested in arguing politics on here. I learned the futility of that several years ago and I don’t support any current politician enough to argue for them. I don’t think any current candidate or party philosophy can fix the problems in this country because the system itself is so corrupt and the corruption has infiltrated so deeply into our culture and society that it seems to have become accepted practice.

It’s in everything from our economy to our mainstream religions. It’s in our college and pro sports. It’s in our media and our military. Saddest of all it’s in our educational and healthcare systems.

The NRA has more influence on our legislators than the homeless and hungry left from the last financial debacle caused by the greed that breeds the corruption.

We don’t need more immigrants and refugees. We need to focus on the CITIZENS of this country and clean our own house first.


I certainly agree with a lot of what you have said. I too do not believe the solution is with electing "the right" politicians. My belief is that the public is being played. The politicians are putting on a "dog and pony show" for the public to give the illusion that there are opposing sides. But behind closed doors they are on the same page. I believe that our country is under attack from both the inside and the outside. I think people should be alarmed when our politicians use terms such as "A New World Order" or "Fundamentally Transform America". There seems to be no effort anymore to protect our borders, encourage immigrants to learn English and assimilate into American culture. Instead we are constantly told that we are somehow racist for expecting such things.

The question is, if electing politicians won't solve the problem then what are the solutions? One option is to use things built into our Constitution to combat a government that has overreached and\or gone rouge. Mark Levin talks about this in his book "The Liberty Amendments". Mark is a syndicated talk show host as well as a former assistant to the U.S. Attorney General. He is very well versed on the Constitution. In addition, he is a member of an organization that legally combats the Federal Government when they circumvent or ignore the law set forth by our Constitution. So he is just not a talker he actually gets involved. I don't agree with all of his viewpoints but I believe he is very balanced and unbiased in his views. He is critical of both the right and the left and doesn't hold back on either side.

Anyway, your right that we need to focus on America first and foremost. But sadly that is not going to come from our elected officials. Personally, I fear that we are too late in the game to stop the inevitable. Which is the downfall of the U.S..
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:53 am

Tashfeen Malik's visa 'sloppily approved,' according to congressman who reviewed immigration application


Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) reviewed Malik’s visa application and said that immigration officials had not sufficiently vetted the information that Malik provided in her efforts to obtain a visa. He said the materials in the file did not conclusively show that Malik and her future husband, Sayed Farook, had met in person — a requirement for a foreigner who is seeking to obtain a K-1 fiancee visa.

Goodlatte’s review found that Malik’s application contained two items to show that the couple had met before: A statement from Farook and copies of pages of each of their passports that showed visas to visit Saudi Arabia. However, the passport stamps do not clearly demonstrate whether they were in that country at the same time, or whether they were together while in that country. Malik’s passport pages show that she arrived in that country around June 4, 2013. A translator who attempted to decipher the partially illegible Arabic-language passport stamps was not able to determine what date Malik left the country, although her visa was valid for 60 days.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tashfe ... li=BBnb7Kz


So here is our rigorous vetting system in action that B.O. has been telling us about. I feel more at ease now don't you??? :shock: :shock:
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:13 pm

ohsherrie wrote:Boomchild, thank you for your response. We obviously have some political differences of opinions but I’m not interested in arguing politics on here. I learned the futility of that several years ago and I don’t support any current politician enough to argue for them. I don’t think any current candidate or party philosophy can fix the problems in this country because the system itself is so corrupt and the corruption has infiltrated so deeply into our culture and society that it seems to have become accepted practice.

It’s in everything from our economy to our mainstream religions. It’s in our college and pro sports. It’s in our media and our military. Saddest of all it’s in our educational and healthcare systems.

The NRA has more influence on our legislators than the homeless and hungry left from the last financial debacle caused by the greed that breeds the corruption.

We don’t need more immigrants and refugees. We need to focus on the CITIZENS of this country and clean our own house first.


What are you saying is changed? When was it different?

I think there has always been corruption and greed in all levels of society. It is party of human nature. The only difference I can see is that today it is so easy to communicate it, for pundits to point it out - real or imagined, and it is harder for society to ignore such talk. So, you turn on the radio/TV/Internet and you can listen all day to how much Democrats/Republicans suck and they are the problem and the solution is to get rid of them...and then show "evidence", again real or imagined. So, it SEEMS like there is more corruption, but there really isn't.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby slucero » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:37 pm

K Street, or the big business lobby really didn't exist, nor was it as organized until after WWII... Eisenhower even warned about it in his farewell address..

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:56 am

slucero wrote:K Street, or the big business lobby really didn't exist, nor was it as organized until after WWII... Eisenhower even warned about it in his farewell address..


You're right Slucero and Monker is also mostly right, but it has never been as bad as it is right now. The corporatization of every possible way to make a profit and the repeal of the restrictions on financial institutions have made the results of that natural human greed much more damaging.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:09 am

ohsherrie wrote:
slucero wrote:K Street, or the big business lobby really didn't exist, nor was it as organized until after WWII... Eisenhower even warned about it in his farewell address..


You're right Slucero and Monker is also mostly right, but it has never been as bad as it is right now. The corporatization of every possible way to make a profit and the repeal of the restrictions on financial institutions have made the results of that natural human greed much more damaging.


I simply disagree. It's simply in your face now.

The repeal of Glass Steagall happened years before the financial collapse. The collapse happened because Wall Street is greedy, banks are greedy, borrowers are greedy...and they ALL took advantage of the system. Every huge bubble in the economy that bursts is created by people being greedy...that is nothing new.

This can be argued forever. The simple fact is that corruption in government has existed ever since the Greeks first created their representative Democracy. Bribes have always happened. Kickbacks have always happened. Trading money, and other things, for influence has always happened. All of these things have happened, yes, in all levels of society, for thousands of years. The argument can be made that Cain killed Abel due to greed and jealousy. It is part of our human nature.

I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with, or it should be excused or ignored. I am only saying that corruption should not be used as an excuse for not wanting or believing the 'right' thing can and should be done. That is a defeatist attitude and really leads to not progressing with anything.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:11 am

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:All brought to you by Progresive One World Government Liberalism. Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama. Not sure about Regan. The movie Rollerball comes to mind. The one with James Cann, not the one that sucked.


Oh, yes, that's perfect. Reference a fictional movie to back up your fictional conspiracy theories. The Illuminati and Free Masons are quivering in fear now. Perhaps Tom Hanks will star in your movie version of "now".
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:22 am

Monker wrote:
I am not saying there are not issues to be dealt with, or it should be excused or ignored. I am only saying that corruption should not be used as an excuse for not wanting or believing the 'right' thing can and should be done. That is a defeatist attitude and really leads to not progressing with anything.


Neither am I. I'm just saying that nobody who is running nor either political party that currently exists is going to do the right thing. My attitude is not defeatist, it's realistic.

A major shake-up is needed and that's not going to happen by playing along with the same old games. Don't ask me what should be done because I don't know. I wish I did because I worry about the country my grandchildren are growing into.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby steveo777 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:57 pm

Apparently, Hillary got schlonged by B.O., back in 2008, and the election got snatched from her. lol :mrgreen:

People are outraged, seriously, they're freaking out. The skin of people are way too thin. We're talking about Hillary the criminal, murderous, lying traitor......and people are insulted when a couple choice words are lobbed her way........ Seriously?!!!! Go Trump!
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:44 pm

K.C.Journey Fan wrote:
steveo777 wrote:Apparently, Hillary got schlonged by B.O., back in 2008, and the election got snatched from her. lol :mrgreen:

People are outraged, seriously, they're freaking out. The skin of people are way too thin. We're talking about Hillary the criminal, murderous, lying traitor......and people are insulted when a couple choice words are lobbed her way........ Seriously?!!!! Go Trump!


Really! Who wants a "Leader" that fills her diaper during the Debate then whines and crys because Trump called her a bad word and then calls him a bully? No wonder liberals think Obama was a leader.


Roughly half the nation, and slightly less want Trump.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby RPM » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:37 am

I think it will go one of two ways with Trump, one possibility is there are a lot more people that agree with him and will vote for him who will not admit publicly to supporting him. The other scenario is people are entertained by him but when it comes
Time to vote will pick a more established candidate. I predict either a landslide victory or crushing defeat.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby No Surprize » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:52 am

I voted for Obama the first time he ran.

Voted for the other guy the last election cause 4 years is enough for any one man.

Voting for the TRUMP this time. Fucking liberals are destroying this once great nation.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:36 am

No Surprize wrote:Voted for the other guy the last election cause 4 years is enough for any one man.


Not really. Most presidents accomplish jack shit.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:41 am

Monker wrote:I simply disagree. It's simply in your face now.

The repeal of Glass Steagall happened years before the financial collapse.


Sounds to me like you are excusing the Financial Services Modernization Act because both Hill and Bill were in favor of it, and completely "shlonged" the US economy. Of course, Glass-Steagall should be reinstated. Anyone interested in truth should read this -

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillar ... tastrophe/
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:21 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:I simply disagree. It's simply in your face now.

The repeal of Glass Steagall happened years before the financial collapse.


Sounds to me like you are excusing the Financial Services Modernization Act because both Hill and Bill were in favor of it, and completely "shlonged" the US economy. Of course, Glass-Steagall should be reinstated. Anyone interested in truth should read this -

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillar ... tastrophe/


That also happened years ago.

My point is that greed, from all sides and levels, is what caused the housing bubble and the collapse of the economy. Greed is what creates these huge bubbles and the financial turmoil that follows when those bubbles burst. It has always been around because it is part of human nature and it is nothing new.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:37 am

Monker wrote:
The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Monker wrote:I simply disagree. It's simply in your face now.

The repeal of Glass Steagall happened years before the financial collapse.


Sounds to me like you are excusing the Financial Services Modernization Act because both Hill and Bill were in favor of it, and completely "shlonged" the US economy. Of course, Glass-Steagall should be reinstated. Anyone interested in truth should read this -

http://www.thenation.com/article/hillar ... tastrophe/


That also happened years ago.

My point is that greed, from all sides and levels, is what caused the housing bubble and the collapse of the economy. Greed is what creates these huge bubbles and the financial turmoil that follows when those bubbles burst. It has always been around because it is part of human nature and it is nothing new.


So we should just accept it as business as usual and keep watching the rich get richer, what's left of what used to be the American Dream keep struggling and the ever-growing working poor population get more desperate?

What's that saying about learning from the past or being doomed by it?

As far as expecting anything to really be accomplished by the next election, at least Trump is likely to be entertaining.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:20 pm

ohsherrie wrote:So we should just accept it as business as usual and keep watching the rich get richer, what's left of what used to be the American Dream keep struggling and the ever-growing working poor population get more desperate?

What's that saying about learning from the past or being doomed by it?


The conversation was about everything being more corrupt than it ever has been. I am saying that I do not believe that is true. I wasn't arguing to just accept it.

If you are that worried about the working poor and such, then perhaps you should do organize with groups like the %99, or start your own, or speak out publicly against lowering taxes for the rich when they obviously do not need it.

As far as expecting anything to really be accomplished by the next election, at least Trump is likely to be entertaining.


Frankly, Trump is dangerous. He would probably lead us to a world war. Or, at the very least, expanding our existing wars to getting even more Americans killed. Most of the stuff he is proposing is impossible to do because it is either illegal, not within the power of the President, or would be so damaging that it would never happen.

It's like Cruz whining about shutting down the government at every turn. It's such a stupid idea that it scares Republicans more than Democrats.

It doesn't matter anyway. Trump has alienated so many people from the Republicans that he can't win. If Romney can't win the minority votes, then a racist bigot like Trump will not only lose, but cause damage to the Republican party. In fact, the longer he leads the Republican party, the better off the Democrats are - regardless of who is nominated by either party.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:51 am

Monker wrote:Frankly, Trump is dangerous. He would probably lead us to a world war.


Oh please. Trump is sounding more like an isolationist than any of his GOP rivals and Hillary combined.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:25 am

Monker wrote:The conversation was about everything being more corrupt than it ever has been. I am saying that I do not believe that is true. I wasn't arguing to just accept it.


I do believe it's worse and got that way because of the repeal of regulations on financial institutions and the tax breaks to corporations who moved jobs out of this country.

I don't want Trump to be president. I want him to make the people of this country think about the issues that he brings to light.

We absolutely don't need any more immigrants, especially the illegal ones. We have to close our borders and secure them.
We do need to deport as many as we reasonably can at every possible opportunity.
We don't need any more middle eastern refugees.

We do need to stop covering up the real problems that we have because it's "politically incorrect" to talk about them and some segment of our population may be offended by it.

Much of what Trump says that people are calling "racist" is just common sense truth that nobody else will talk about because they want the votes from those segments of our population.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:30 pm

ohsherrie wrote:We do need to deport as many as we reasonably can at every possible opportunity.
We don't need any more middle eastern refugees.


The liberal progressives as well as a many of our legislators will tell you that is impossible to do. Yet in the 20th century, the 1940's mind you, a country and it's leader managed to round up and transport 6 million people from all over Europe to death camps.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:26 am

Boomchild wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:We do need to deport as many as we reasonably can at every possible opportunity.
We don't need any more middle eastern refugees.


The liberal progressives as well as a many of our legislators will tell you that is impossible to do. Yet in the 20th century, the 1940's mind you, a country and it's leader managed to round up and transport 6 million people from all over Europe to death camps.


...and while HItler was murdering Jews, the US refused Jewish refugees attempting to escape death because of fears of allowing Nazis into the US.

Not allowing Jews to escape Hitler is no different the not allowing Syrian refugees to escape. It was the wrong decision then, and it is the wrong decision now.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:02 am

ohsherrie wrote:I don't want Trump to be president. I want him to make the people of this country think about the issues that he brings to light.


He's simply entertainment. He's not addressing ANY issue in a realistic way. He is trying to give this impression of being bold and fearless but people who understand the issues know he is simply not being realistic and is only putting on a show to get votes. NOTHING he is proposing can actually be done.

We absolutely don't need any more immigrants, especially the illegal ones. We have to close our borders and secure them.


But, building a wall is not going to happen. And, nobody is saying we need "more immigrants" of any type.

We do need to deport as many as we reasonably can at every possible opportunity.


How? Even Trump doesn't know how to do it. He is all talk and is pressing people's buttons but has no more of a realistic solution than any other candidate.

We don't need any more middle eastern refugees.


Of course we don't "need" them. However, if we are a country that prides itself on being a world leader and example of high morals, ignoring the bold statements imprinted on the Statue of Liberty is hypocritical and wrong. These are people trying to escape death at the hands of both ISIS and their country's dictator.

Frankly, those who disagree I find cowardly and unpatriotic. They represent the lowest of moral standards in this country. They are quick to give in to unwarranted fears. They want to ignore the fact that we are all immigrants and refugees in this country and this nation was built on the very people we now want to reject. ALL of us, if we look at our family had some ancestor who immigrated to this country generations ago. I doubt you would be here if this attitude existed then towards whatever country your ancestors were from.

We do need to stop covering up the real problems that we have because it's "politically incorrect" to talk about them and some segment of our population may be offended by it.


Trump says offensive things intentionally to get attention and remain in the news. He says ridiculously stupid things like calling all Mexicans murderers and rapists, thousands of Muslims in NY cheered after 9/11, the comments about Megan Kelly, the ridiculous comments about Hillary Clinton and the debate. These are things that normal people should not even have enter their heads let alone come out of their mouth.

It says a LOT about the Republican party that Trump is leading the polls. Republicans are so fed up that they hate most of their own party. They would rather nominate somebody who has no chance of winning then nominate somebody who is not ultra-conservative and may disagree on even small issues. Trump knows this and plays to that anger and inner party resentment. It is so bad that it is hurting the party as a whole.

Much of what Trump says that people are calling "racist" is just common sense truth that nobody else will talk about because they want the votes from those segments of our population.


Such as? It's "common sense" that Mexicans illegals are all rapists and murderers when it is simply not true? It's "common sense" that thousands and thousands of Muslims cheered after 9/11 and he saw it on the news - when absolutely no footage of such a things exists? It's common sense that he insults and judges women by their looks, like Fiorina and Rosie O'Donnell, and it's OK to make weird comments about Clinton and the debate?

I mean, look, this isn't like he had an "oops" moment and said something accidently stupid, or he's writing a script for South Park. It's consistent behavior. Every single week he says some racist or bigoted comment. It's who he is...and Republicans love it and that is what they are demanding represent the party - racism and bigotry. And, they will lose the election because of it....regardless of who is nominated.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:25 pm

Monker wrote:...and while HItler was murdering Jews, the US refused Jewish refugees attempting to escape death because of fears of allowing Nazis into the US.

Not allowing Jews to escape Hitler is no different the not allowing Syrian refugees to escape. It was the wrong decision then, and it is the wrong decision now.


You are deflecting from the point of my statement. Which is the assertion that we have no way of effectively deporting those that have entered the U.S. illegally. We are well advanced in technology and transportation since the 1940's. So if it was possible then, it's possible now. If not, then we are in serious trouble when comes to the protecting the welfare and security of the country. BTW, our government did not just refuse the immigration of Jews during WWII. It applied to ANYONE coming from Germany as well as many other countries in Europe. Maybe that was because they knew they did not have the ability to properly vet and detect threats that would be with the groups wanting to enter the U.S.. Which seems to me to be a sound judgement. I would also point out that it was President Roosevelt that came up with that policy. You know, the great humanitarian and poster boy for the progressive liberals and socialists a like.

Even more to the point, the U.S. has accepted more refugees from all over the globe then any other single country or nation. So I would say we have done more then the rest of the world when it comes to helping those seeking asylum. Furthermore, the countries in the Middle East that could accept these refugees have not stepped up to the plate. The U.S. and the U.N. is letting them get away with it. But you hear no mention of that at all.

Entry into the U.S. no matter what the reason is a privilege and not an inalienable right of the world population.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby ohsherrie » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:06 am

Boomchild wrote:
You are deflecting from the point of my statement. Which is the assertion that we have no way of effectively deporting those that have entered the U.S. illegally. We are well advanced in technology and transportation since the 1940's. So if it was possible then, it's possible now. If not, then we are in serious trouble when comes to the protecting the welfare and security of the country. BTW, our government did not just refuse the immigration of Jews during WWII. It applied to ANYONE coming from Germany as well as many other countries in Europe. Maybe that was because they knew they did not have the ability to properly vet and detect threats that would be with the groups wanting to enter the U.S.. Which seems to me to be a sound judgement. I would also point out that it was President Roosevelt that came up with that policy. You know, the great humanitarian and poster boy for the progressive liberals and socialists a like.

Even more to the point, the U.S. has accepted more refugees from all over the globe then any other single country or nation. So I would say we have done more then the rest of the world when it comes to helping those seeking asylum. Furthermore, the countries in the Middle East that could accept these refugees have not stepped up to the plate. The U.S. and the U.N. is letting them get away with it. But you hear no mention of that at all.

Entry into the U.S. no matter what the reason is a privilege and not an inalienable right of the world population.


Exactly!

I wish we had another Roosevelt.

I'm neither liberal nor conservative. I think we're much too caught up in labels, caragorizing people and polarizing issues.

I consider myself a common sense working class American who prefers to have reality dealt with realistically rather than ideologically and politically expediently.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Boomchild » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:52 am

ohsherrie wrote:I'm neither liberal nor conservative. I think we're much too caught up in labels, caragorizing people and polarizing issues.


This polarization is not by accident. If your looking to "fundamentally transform" a nation you have to destroy the previous one first. Pitting citizens against each other is just one part of the process. You don't want those citizens to be able to unite against your plans of transformation. So you create situations and events that put them at odds with each other. You spin the nation's history to give the impression that it is guilty of horrendous crimes against humanity and is a evil empire. There has been so much focus about threats from outside this nation when the worst threat is right here among us. I believe that it was Abraham Lincoln that said our nation would not fall due an outside threat but rather from us doing it to ourselves. I firmly believe we are witnessing this in action today.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter." George Washington
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:59 pm

Boomchild wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:I'm neither liberal nor conservative. I think we're much too caught up in labels, caragorizing people and polarizing issues.


This polarization is not by accident. If your looking to "fundamentally transform" a nation you have to destroy the previous one first. Pitting citizens against each other is just one part of the process. You don't want those citizens to be able to unite against your plans of transformation. So you create situations and events that put them at odds with each other. You spin the nation's history to give the impression that it is guilty of horrendous crimes against humanity and is a evil empire. There has been so much focus about threats from outside this nation when the worst threat is right here among us. I believe that it was Abraham Lincoln that said our nation would not fall due an outside threat but rather from us doing it to ourselves. I firmly believe we are witnessing this in action today.


That is ridiculous paranoia and repeating propaganda.

A strong nation is willing to admit it's mistakes. An Orwellian nation is one that tries to remove things like slavery and the constant racism that followed from it's history. An Orwellian nation tries remove the fact of how we took this land from the native people. An Orwellian nation tries to remove the fact that we had Japanese internment camps. A strong nation is able to admit the acts of Abu Grab and rise above that immorality. A strong nation is willing to admit that Gitmo is holding prisoners without trial for years, or even a decade, violating our own sense of law and justice and making us hypocrites.

You are seeing extremes clashing because it is the extremes that are the loudest, they are the most entertaining, and therefore are the voices given time on all of the current media. People love to say "Lame stream media" or critique Fox News. The truth is that people are drawn to their own selfish opinions and everybody else can, literally, go to Hell. That is what they want, and that is what they are given, and what they give out. Nobody wants to watch, listen, or read an unbiased middle opinion because it's boring and NOT extreme. It doesn't get ratings or subscribers and therefore does not pay the bills so it is not presented, or even wanted and sought after.

There is no sense of a need to compromise any longer because the middle opinion is silent or drowned out by vicious attacks and slanderous lies. And, people are naïve enough to believe in it. People believe Obama is a Kenyan born secret Muslim with no real birth certificate. It doesn't matter what he does, that is what some people believe. They will shout it out to anybody who will listen and invent conspiracy theories to back it up. I remember McCain stopping some lady who started going on about this when he ran because it was disrespectful. We now have a Republican leader who not only encourages this type of talk but joins in it himself.

Saying someone, or a group, or a party, or even all politics is conspiring to put people against people is not looking at reality...it's listening to pundits who are selling books to naïve people who want an explanation and are entertained by this or that. It's good fiction...but it's not based on the real world.
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Re: President Barack Obama - Term 2 Thread

Postby Monker » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:05 pm

ohsherrie wrote:Exactly!

I wish we had another Roosevelt.

I'm neither liberal nor conservative. I think we're much too caught up in labels, caragorizing people and polarizing issues.

I consider myself a common sense working class American who prefers to have reality dealt with realistically rather than ideologically and politically expediently.


If we had another Roosevelt, it should be a Teddy Roosevelt. Someone who will simply say it like it is without all of this bullshit.

The simple fact is we turned Jews away who died in concentration camps because we were scared of stray Nazi's. And, now we are refusing Syrians to die because we are afraid of a stray terrorist.

Funny how these evil people plant fear in the minds of cowards with no effort at all.
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