They're Eating The Dogs Presidential Thread

[Monker]

No tariffs on products from Mexico, as I expected. Going to buy a sixer of Corona Extra.

You expected Mexico to deploy thousands of national guard troops among other border actions? Riiiiight.

Wasn't even thinking of that. I knew Cheeto wouldn't do it.

The entire tariff thing was a lie: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/08/us/p ... riffs.html

Also, this entire "deal" reminds me of North Korea....a bunch of propaganda bullshit. The Mexican national guard was only approved to be created in February (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/worl ... guard.html) It is not a long standing force so nobody knows how effective they are at ANYTHING. IMO, I think this entire thing is going to fall apart very quickly...just like the deal of stopping "Little Rocket Man" testing his missiles is now defunct.

[Monker]

But I absolutely defended you over the posting of personal info and called TNC out on it.

This never happened. Anything posted was already in the public domain.

I dont want to rehash it. It may have been public, but still personal and not intended for this forum as its audience.

Then don't talk about it. Can you not see that TNC *WANTS* to talk about it? All he is doing is proving how unscrupulous he is. and trolling to keep the discussion going. Does anything need to be said beyond that?

[The_Noble_Cause]

The entire tariff thing was a lie: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/08/us/p ... riffs.html

Where's the lie?

1) Even if some of Mexico's concessions preceded the latest tariff threat, they only came about due to ongoing negotiations between our government and Mexico.
2) The article clearly states that some of the commitments came from talks as recent as a week ago.

"Officials involved with talks said they began in earnest last Sunday, when Kevin K. McAleenan, the acting secretary of homeland security, met over dinner with Mexico’s foreign minister. One senior government official, who was not authorized to speak publicly about the closed-door negotiations that took place over several days, insisted that the Mexicans agreed to move faster and more aggressively to deter migrants than they ever have before.Their promise to deploy up to 6,000 national guard troops was larger than their previous pledge. And the Mexican agreement to accelerate the Migrant Protection Protocols could help reduce what Mr. Trump calls “catch and release” of migrants in the United States by giving the country a greater ability to make asylum-seekers wait in Mexico."

[The_Noble_Cause]

Then don't talk about it. Can you not see that TNC *WANTS* to talk about it? All he is doing is proving how unscrupulous he is. and trolling to keep the discussion going. Does anything need to be said beyond that?

I'm just stating the facts.

[Monker]

Just because I am not a fan of negativity doesn't mean I'm not mature enough to navigate around it and participate wherever I want. If you can go over there and tell me which of my 3 or 4 posts are negative, cool.

You come to this forum and say such crap and yet you are a member of the forum that was founded on hatred of this forum and of the forum owner. There is no "navigating around it"...that is what that forum IS. You don't give a shit about negativity...it is plainly obvious. You are posting on the wrong forum to be lecturing about negativity...and I think you know it.

So weird. First off, if I did post there, so fucking what. Many of those people are good people. I've seen just as much hatred or anger directed at them. But what's weird is your comments sound as if you think I am somehow posting there all the time. Not that it would be a bad thing, but just weird to nag at me over something that is not really true.

In any case, I've tried to be consistent. Prior to TNC's death, I didn't care all that much for his tone and posts, but was the first to be concerned and let him know it after his revival. I certainly don't agree with you on, well, pretty much anything. But I absolutely defended you over the posting of personal info and called TNC out on it. On the other board, I did not bash Andrew and in fact if memory serves, I said I assumed he was a decent guy, even though I was angry with him for saying the very wrong things that he did, which I called him out for here.

And I think you are an utter fool for buying all the mainstream/MSNBC/CNN beginning of the end blockbuster it's over for Trump now silliness. But I assume you are a very decent person and I feel that outside of voicing my political disagreements, I have treated you as such.

To be honest, I don't care for how Andrew is discussed on the other forum. Or how Andrew discusses them. I am one that hates that politics has become angrily divisive and watching it here bothers me. But I know for an absolute fact that the vast majority of people here are genuinely good people and same for the vast majority over there.

And that is how I carry on with people and despite the negativity that I don't enjoy, participate in discussion with people I have come to know via hundreds of thousands of posts over two decades. I know that we all have a lot more in common than some will admit and the noise is just noise. So instead of accusations, just take me for who I am and how we interact. I'm not a Nazi, I promise.

I never said nor implied anything about posting. I said you are a member of a forum which came about because of hatred of this forum and Andrew. It was born out of negativity. If you are so against negativity, you would not be a member of a forum born out of it. How often, or what, you post is irrelevant.

What is said about this forum there, and that forum here is NOT equal in any way. There is not entire threads dedicated to discussion of that forum and how much of an asshole the owner is, mocking and insulting posters, comparing activity and all of the rest of the obsessive crap they do. Yeah, it gets discussed here once in a while...usually when somebody starts talking about the past, how Andrew didn't kiss their ass and allow people to post things that he was embarrassed to have a part of HIS webspace. So what? Insulting them on an ongoing basis, encouraged by each other, and having entire threads dedicated to discussion of the other forum is NOT happening here. It is NOT a comparable situation - at all.

And, yes, you are a member of a forum spawned from hatred and engaged in constant expression of that hatred. So, don't talk to me about how you avoid negativity, as long as you are a member of that forum. It's hypocritical bullshit . You tolerate negativity when it is convenient - but you don't avoid it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I never said nor implied anything about posting. I said you are a member of a forum which came about because of hatred of this forum and Andrew. It was born out of negativity.

Right off the bat you are lying...
My understanding is some of the members created a new forum because this thread was shut down.
It was forged out of necessity. They no longer had a place to post.

And, yes, you are a member of a forum spawned from hatred and engaged in constant expression of that hatred. So, don't talk to me about how you avoid negativity, as long as you are a member of that forum. It's hypocritical bullshit . You tolerate negativity when it is convenient - but you don't avoid it.

As you are clearly a dedicated reader of this other "hateful" forum, you are also not doing a very good job avoiding negativity.
In fact, you are allowing hate to flourish by providing web traffic and saying nothing.

[Memorex]

I don't understand why people are upset about tariffs and take a position that they are not a solid negotiating tool. They absolutely should he used when talking is not working and the other country is falling short. We don't use the tools we have nearly enough.

Imagine if the Dems cared about fixing this stuff. Would be much easier.

[Memorex]

I don't think I said I avoid negativity. That's impossible. I said I wasn't a fan of it and I am mature enough to navigate around it. Hell, if I wanted to avoid negativity I should just cancel my internet service and throw my phone in the garbage disposal.

[verslibre]

I don't think I said I avoid negativity. That's impossible. I said I wasn't a fan of it and I am mature enough to navigate around it. Hell, if I wanted to avoid negativity I should just cancel my internet service and throw my phone in the garbage disposal.

You'd also have to power down your 56" Samsung 4K TV and turn in your cable box or satellite dish.

Then you'd have to tell your family you're abandoning them and moving into the woods to do your Survivorman impression.

Then you'd be eaten by a bear.

[Monker]

I don't think I said I avoid negativity. That's impossible. I said I wasn't a fan of it and I am mature enough to navigate around it. Hell, if I wanted to avoid negativity I should just cancel my internet service and throw my phone in the garbage disposal.

You'd also have to power down your 56" Samsung 4K TV and turn in your cable box or satellite dish.

Then you'd have to tell your family you're abandoning them and moving into the woods to do your Survivorman impression.

Then you'd be eaten by a bear.

Did you know the Survivorman guy saw Bigfoot?

[Monker]

I don't understand why people are upset about tariffs and take a position that they are not a solid negotiating tool. They absolutely should he used when talking is not working and the other country is falling short. We don't use the tools we have nearly enough.

Imagine if the Dems cared about fixing this stuff. Would be much easier.

Tariffs hurt the economy. It causes inflation and stresses the job market. We are only now starting to see the affects of the trade war with China.

Whichever Democrat replaces Pence is going to have a lot of opportunities to stimulate the economy by removing these tariffs.

[Memorex]

I don't understand why people are upset about tariffs and take a position that they are not a solid negotiating tool. They absolutely should he used when talking is not working and the other country is falling short. We don't use the tools we have nearly enough.

Imagine if the Dems cared about fixing this stuff. Would be much easier.

Tariffs hurt the economy. It causes inflation and stresses the job market. We are only now starting to see the affects of the trade war with China.

Whichever Democrat replaces Pence is going to have a lot of opportunities to stimulate the economy by removing these tariffs.

Oh my God I almost just shit myself with laughter.

[Monker]

And, now Daffy Donald is inventing stories about a "new" deal with Mexico or he'll do the tariffs.

This guy is a complete basket case. He lied about it the first time, nobody with a brain is going to believe it this time.

[Andrew]

And, now Daffy Donald is inventing stories about a "new" deal with Mexico or he'll do the tariffs.

This guy is a complete basket case. He lied about it the first time, nobody with a brain is going to believe it this time.

He wants to be supreme leader where he has full control, media is under his control and can only support the narrative (ie Fox) and no one ever questions his very large abrain.

History will be awash with stories of what a nutstain Drumpf is.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This guy is a complete basket case. He lied about it the first time, nobody with a brain is going to believe it this time.

So where's the lie?
Documents reviewed by the Washington Post actually confirm what the president said.


"Mexican negotiators persuaded President Trump to back down from his tariff threat by agreeing to an unprecedented crackdown on Central American migrants and accepting more-expansive measures in Mexico if the initial efforts don’t deliver quick results, according to officials from both governments and documents reviewed by The Washington Post."
________________________________________________

"...but the president’s tariff ultimatum alarmed Mexican officials — more than previous threats to close the border — because it tied vital commerce and trade to immigration enforcement.

The tactic generated significant leverage, according to officials from both countries who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe last week’s negotiations.

Immediately after Trump made the tariff threat, López Obrador dispatched a negotiating team to Washington led by Mexican Foreign Minister Marcelo Ebrard, who had to spend several days waiting for Trump and other top White House officials to return from overseas, with pressure mounting."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigrat ... 6ad1b7e6e5

[Memorex]

It's so weird to have a situation where several countries and entities are negotiating, and improvements have been made, and yet not one anti-Trumper can go without describing how wrong Trump is on x, y, and z.

North Korea - most progress in my lifetime, not perfect, who knows what will happen. But at least it's something. Def more than the last four presidents have done. But no, instead of "Hey, hope it turns out good", it's nothing but how horrible Trump is.

Tariffs and other trade-related tactics - OBVIOUSLY, any sane individual can see that at least it has China and Mexico and others at the table, making concessions. The UN is paying more, countries are buying more product, etc. And Trump knows and I know and you know the tariffs are temporary as a negotiating tool. But anti-Trumpers act like the world is falling apart. They give everyone point by point explanations how it's ripping the world apart, all evidence to the contrary. And guess what, so fucking what if any other country is hurt. We have been on the short end for a while as a country. There is nothing wrong with evening it out.

Trump wants to own and run the news orgs? Ugh. What slightest piece of evidence is there for that? Because he calls them out for their lack of honesty and their and single-minded coverage? Other presidents have done that, just not so bluntly. Look what the Obama admin did to reporters that went against them. And I've never witnessed the news media so collectively unfair to a single leader. It's truly comical. He's just the guy that won this time. Nothing more, nothing less.

You guys are a one trick pony unable to give credit when it's due. Trump fights for gay rights world-wide, here's why it's bad. Trump wants to lower prescription drug prices - why that hurts women. Criminal Justice reform that helps minorities the most, here's why in the end, that is racist and he is literally Hitler.

It's so fucking old and childish and weak and pedestrian. But most of all, it's simple-minded.

[Andrew]

I can't be bothered quoting everything but...this is why virtually no one can argue and win against a Trump ballsack warmer (forgive the description)...

- North Korea - absolutely more progress than ever before. IF he's not being used/played. We'll see, but I'll give that one thumb up. It is a pity that he fawns over a murderous dictator...quite embarassing that.

- Tarrifs - the only people losing here is the USA via paying more for everything or losing tax dollars to subsidy payments to US industries losing money.

- The UN is NOT paying more. Again, more Drumpf dogshit that followers eat up without explanation. Do I need to explain the basics of how the UN works...again?

- So what if other countries are hurt by the US presidential policies. Well, don't come knocking when your tax cuts and tariffs crash the economy or the US wants help invading the next country. Short minded insular thinking...again, typical of a Drumpf supporter.

- Trump has stated on numerous times what he'd prefer to do/for the press to do/be like. Fuck, how can you not recall that?

- Obama had a few spars with the media...oh, sorry, only Fox. Trump has a problem with everyone....except Fox.

It's so fucking old and childish and weak and pedestrian. But most of all, it's simple-minded.

We agree on this point. The right do behave exactly as they accuse the left.

[The_Noble_Cause]

- Obama had a few spars with the media...oh, sorry, only Fox. Trump has a problem with everyone....except Fox.

This is a lie. Under Obama, AP reporters were spied on. The espionage act was used multiple times against leakers. The NYTimes's James Risen was subpoenaed by Obama's justice department relentlessly. Journalists, of all people, should know this stuff.

[Monker]

Tariffs and other trade-related tactics - OBVIOUSLY, any sane individual can see that at least it has China and Mexico and others at the table, making concessions. The UN is paying more, countries are buying more product, etc. And Trump knows and I know and you know the tariffs are temporary as a negotiating tool. But anti-Trumpers act like the world is falling apart. They give everyone point by point explanations how it's ripping the world apart, all evidence to the contrary. And guess what, so fucking what if any other country is hurt. We have been on the short end for a while as a country. There is nothing wrong with evening it out.

Tariffs increase prices in the US. Period. That is just a fact. It is not good for the economy. Every time he announced new tariffs, the stock market has a fit - because it drags the economy down. That is also a fact. Imposing a blanket tariff on Mexico is nuts because of how many goods that would affect and how much prices would rise in the entire economy.

It is also not the president's job to impose tariffs and manage trade. The Constitution CLEARLY says congress is in charge of import/export taxes and managing trade. Trump is using a loophole in the law that says the president can use tariffs in a national emergency. He is misusing that power by doing what YOU say and using tariffs as a negotiating tool. IMO, congress should change that law and remove that power so only congress can manage tariffs - the way the CONSTITUTION says it should be.

[Monker]

Trump wants to own and run the news orgs? Ugh. What slightest piece of evidence is there for that? Because he calls them out for their lack of honesty and their and single-minded coverage? Other presidents have done that, just not so bluntly. Look what the Obama admin did to reporters that went against them. And I've never witnessed the news media so collectively unfair to a single leader. It's truly comical. He's just the guy that won this time. Nothing more, nothing less.

In true Communist fashion, Trump boasts that the press is the enemy of the people. He threatens to not renew broadcast license of a major network because he does not like the news it reports. Trump labels anything he doesn't like as fake news while having lunch dates with Sean Hannity and appointing FOX contributers to his administration. He is NOT just "the guy that won" he is the guy who openly attacks the idea of freedom of the press.

[Monker]

You guys are a one trick pony unable to give credit when it's due. Trump fights for gay rights world-wide, here's why it's bad. Trump wants to lower prescription drug prices - why that hurts women. Criminal Justice reform that helps minorities the most, here's why in the end, that is racist and he is literally Hitler.

It's so fucking old and childish and weak and pedestrian. But most of all, it's simple-minded.

Somebody call a Whah-bulence, a Trump fan is whining about his treatment. Maybe if he shut the fuck up and did his job then people will give a shit. Instead he makes insane Tweets and crazy policy decisions and falls in love with foreign dictators. The guy is a nut.

[verslibre]

Our next election is in peril. A sitting president just said on national television he’d be open to accepting foreign interference in our democratic process and he doesn’t think doing so is wrong. Congress needs to wake up and consider what’s at stake. ENOUGH.

https://twitter.com/AllisonRFloyd/status/1138967056056033280

[Memorex]

Our next election is in peril. A sitting president just said on national television he’d be open to accepting foreign interference in our democratic process and he doesn’t think doing so is wrong. Congress needs to wake up and consider what’s at stake. ENOUGH.

https://twitter.com/AllisonRFloyd/status/1138967056056033280

This is the stupidest thing yet. Jesus. They asked him if he would take oppo research. Here's a big secret for you that your parents must have hid from you. THEY ALL DO!!!! They don't give a shit where it comes from. Why don't you check the sources on that dossier that Hillary paid for before you cry foul. Why don't you check how many foreign agencies were involved throughout.

Whatever needs to happen needs to happen equally. Either allow oppo research or not. But you can't say it's perfectly fine for the left and than act outraged when someone on the right entertains the idea.

You know what a real crime would be? Taking unverified oppo research with unproven details, leaking bits to the press, and then using the press' coverage as corroboration for the original document. And then taking all of that,committing fraud at the FISA court, and spying on a campaign before during and after an election. Now that would be something I would think you'd be all fuckin pissed about. In fact, let me get your opinion on that. Hang on while I pop some popcorn.

Is there anything the left doesn't get angry at when it comes to Trump? I mean, anything?

[Andrew]

The question should be is there anything the right won’t bend over and let Trump do to them?
Is there no principle they won’t hypocritically backflip on?

[Memorex]

The question should be is there anything the right won’t bend over and let Trump do to them?
Is there no principle they won’t hypocritically backflip on?

Trump suggests maybe he'd take oppo research and you accuse the right of bending over. The left actually does all the things you accuse, and far worse, and you don't say a word. That's just a fact that should no longer astound me, but it does. I was born with half my family left and half my family right. They were almost the same people back in the day. But now the left has moved so far to insane land with the hatred and TDS and socialism, none of my relatives would even think to participate. And yes, I am aware some factions of the right have also moved too far right. But the left has completely abandoned the middle just to hate and demand free everything.

The left has all these accusations and slogans. Trump will never leave office. Huh? Trump is tearing down the gay community. Huh? If Trump gets a second term, there will be concentration camps. Huh?

The left - We must keep investigating Trump until we find something.

Yea - ok. Which side has gone nutty?

[Monker]

So, the defense of Trump taking foreign "dirt" on the Democrat nominee in the next election is that the "Democrats do it, too". Then impeach them too, or throw them in jail, if it can be proven.

The Republicans now have NO moral standards and think they can do whatever the fuck they want without any repercussions. This is why Trump MUST BE IMPEACHED. I don't care if it fails in the Senate. I don't care about how it affects the election. All of this MUST be written down in history...all of this election tampering by foreign powers, the President not only allowed, but also endorses it as being OK....and the Republican party did nothing, and his ignorant supporters followed right along.

What is being said by Trump supporters is absolutely indefensible. It's defending Nero after he lit the fire to burn Rome.

[Memorex]

So, the defense of Trump taking foreign "dirt" on the Democrat nominee in the next election is that the "Democrats do it, too". Then impeach them too, or throw them in jail, if it can be proven.

The Republicans now have NO moral standards and think they can do whatever the fuck they want without any repercussions. This is why Trump MUST BE IMPEACHED. I don't care if it fails in the Senate. I don't care about how it affects the election. All of this MUST be written down in history...all of this election tampering by foreign powers, the President not only allowed, but also endorses it as being OK....and the Republican party did nothing, and his ignorant supporters followed right along.

What is being said by Trump supporters is absolutely indefensible. It's defending Nero after he lit the fire to burn Rome.

You know who the president was at the tie of Russian meddling, don't you?

But I will give you a pass on that one. Because the real answer is every president of my lifetime from Obama back and it will happen again in the next election. Trump has nothing to do with Russians meddling. And oppo research is always going to be there. It's not illegal. The piss dossier was not illegal either and Hillary bought it and I could care less about that part of it. That was her right. But the real crime is when she and Obama and the CIA/FBI/Etc. used that to spy. That, no matter how you slice it, is a flat out crime.

[Memorex]

The question should be is there anything the right won’t bend over and let Trump do to them?
Is there no principle they won’t hypocritically backflip on?

Truce for a moment. How are you feeling about the new Jimmy Barnes disc? I'm liking it. Better than some of the recent past, in my opinion.

[Andrew]

The question should be is there anything the right won’t bend over and let Trump do to them?
Is there no principle they won’t hypocritically backflip on?

Truce for a moment. How are you feeling about the new Jimmy Barnes disc? I'm liking it. Better than some of the recent past, in my opinion.

His best in years!

[The_Noble_Cause]

The question should be is there anything the right won’t bend over and let Trump do to them?
Is there no principle they won’t hypocritically backflip on?

Parties are always fluid and changing - but ignoring that, why would anyone care about the right's principles? What principle of the right was remotely worth saving?

Prior to Trump, the right had a consensus of tax cuts, corporate trade, entitlement slashing, anti-environmentalism, and neo-con interventionism.
Much of that remains in the current administration, but at least the party has adopted a posture of anti-interventionism and anti-corporate trade.
Trump has a wildcard maverick streak that also allows for actual progress on issues like criminal justice reform or listing drug prices on TV. The nearly two dozen Democratic candidates running for 2020 will have a hard time winning, because Trump courts both left and right on certain issues.