Announcement from Neal

[danielb]

I think it’s safe to say Journey will continue in some shape or form post Jon’s departure:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/journeys- ... ples-lives

[The_Noble_Cause]

I think it’s safe to say Journey will continue in some shape or form post Jon’s departure:

https://blabbermouth.net/news/journeys- ... ples-lives

It's funny to me how NS refers to the Perry years as "one of the most defining chapters" and "a cornerstone of our legacy."
Dude, it's literally ALL you play at every concert. Every major recent band decision (ex. hiring Arnel, hiring Jason) has been based on how well they emulate Perry.

Overall, I don't know what good this statement does. It sounds like he is (again) trying to sow confusion and contradict the previously announced Final Frontiers tour. He most likely got outvoted by Cain (and others) about finally shutting this circus down and it's driving him crazy. He can continue on the road, but I doubt it will be called Journey. He is worried shitless. You can tell. Instead of being focused on this tour, he keeps trying to secure his next bag.

The whole statement is a bunch of self-aggrandizing revisionist BS.

"...longtime manager Herbie Herbert played a pivotal role in encouraging us to expand that sound. It was Herbie who inspired the idea of bringing in a new voice — someone who could take the songs to another level."

What a bunch of bullshit. Herbie installed Perry over the objections of people like Neal who didn't want a crooner. Who believes this crap?

"JOURNEY's story continued to move forward through the talents of all of us — myself, Jon, Ross Valory, Aynsley Dunbar, Robert Fleischman, Steve Smith, Randy Jackson and Deen — with Steve Augeri singing, helping the band move into a new and successful chapter in 1998 during an important period of transition."

I don't know if this was written by AI or what. It just sound dumb. The Augeri years didn't involve Dunbar, Fleischman, Smith, Randy etc.

[Gideon]

Neal's statement is also shit because it mostly glosses over the entrance, contributions, and impact of his longest-serving Journey partner and the man whose retirement is causing the band to end: Jon Cain.

I loathe Jon's politics, I loathe his grifter wife, and I'm fucking annoyed he's been MIA from his Journey obligations this year to focus instead on Charlie Kirk and gospel music... but Jon has been infinitely more important to Journey's success than Gregg Rolie, as or more important as Neal himself, and perhaps second only to Perry.

These two fucks need to get their shit together for the final tour and go out with a bang.

[The_Noble_Cause]

These two fucks need to get their shit together for the final tour and go out with a bang.

Don't hold your breath.

[youkeepmewaiting]

You've got to imagine that Schon is worried about his financial situation once the Journey brand has to stop touring (unless he negotiates something with Cain to continue to use the name - which wouldn't be a bad deal for JC)

[Loneman1]

You've got to imagine that Schon is worried about his financial situation once the Journey brand has to stop touring (unless he negotiates something with Cain to continue to use the name - which wouldn't be a bad deal for JC)

Reminds me of a quote by Cain while they were waiting on the will he/won't he with Perry during the TBF era saying "I look at Neal and I see a guy that wants his band back"......kind of a similar situation. Neal wants to continue with the name Journey, and Cain should absolutely let him with a decent buyout by Neal and go do his Christian music. Lets be honest, Cain hasn't really wanted to be in the band for quite awhile now other than a few months here and there. The dude looked like he was putting together a grocery list in his head at times on stage over the past several years. Let Neal get back to basics and see what happens. As long as Cain is properly financially covered why the hell not?

[Journey/Survivor]

You've got to imagine that Schon is worried about his financial situation once the Journey brand has to stop touring (unless he negotiates something with Cain to continue to use the name - which wouldn't be a bad deal for JC)

Reminds me of a quote by Cain while they were waiting on the will he/won't he with Perry during the TBF era saying "I look at Neal and I see a guy that wants his band back"......kind of a similar situation. Neal wants to continue with the name Journey, and Cain should absolutely let him with a decent buyout by Neal and go do his Christian music. Lets be honest, Cain hasn't really wanted to be in the band for quite awhile now other than a few months here and there. The dude looked like he was putting together a grocery list in his head at times on stage over the past several years. Let Neal get back to basics and see what happens. As long as Cain is properly financially covered why the hell not?

I totally agree with you across the board.

I think that it's kind of ridiculous for Cain to even want to stop Schon from using the Journey name. It makes Cain the exact same kind of hypocrite that Perry was with his don't crack the stone line!

Schon had Journey before either Perry or Cain were in the band.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I totally agree with you across the board.

I think that it's kind of ridiculous for Cain to even want to stop Schon from using the Journey name. It makes Cain the exact same kind of hypocrite that Perry was with his don't crack the stone line!

Schon had Journey before either Perry or Cain were in the band.

You're jumping to conclusions. All we know is Jon and Neal own it 50/50. We don't know what will happen after this tour. Legally, the current formation of Journey includes Jon and Arnel being present. I can understand why the promotion of The Voice was changed from "Neal Schon and Journey" to "Members of Journey." Under the terms of the current agreement, "Journey" was not there.

[jestor92]

You've got to imagine that Schon is worried about his financial situation once the Journey brand has to stop touring (unless he negotiates something with Cain to continue to use the name - which wouldn't be a bad deal for JC)

Reminds me of a quote by Cain while they were waiting on the will he/won't he with Perry during the TBF era saying "I look at Neal and I see a guy that wants his band back"......kind of a similar situation. Neal wants to continue with the name Journey, and Cain should absolutely let him with a decent buyout by Neal and go do his Christian music. Lets be honest, Cain hasn't really wanted to be in the band for quite awhile now other than a few months here and there. The dude looked like he was putting together a grocery list in his head at times on stage over the past several years. Let Neal get back to basics and see what happens. As long as Cain is properly financially covered why the hell not?

I totally agree with you across the board.

I think that it's kind of ridiculous for Cain to even want to stop Schon from using the Journey name. It makes Cain the exact same kind of hypocrite that Perry was with his don't crack the stone line!

Schon had Journey before either Perry or Cain were in the band.

On the flip side are we still discussing Journey at this point without Perry and to a lesser extent Cain? Don’t get me wrong Schon is an amazing guitarist, but his band wasn’t exactly selling records before Perry and they didn’t jump into super star status until Cain arrived.

You also have to take into consideration how difficult it is for Cain to have to deal with Neal because of the excessive spending, being a bit of a headache. It takes two to make the band relationship work and if Jon isn’t keeping an eye on things they’re going to be in trouble.

[Monker]

What is going on here? Do people just forget history? Neal Schon having Journey is a recent thing. It is something NEAL SCHON invented.

It was HERBIE who had the idea for creating a band around Neal Schon. It was Herbie who picked all the players in the band. It was Herbie who hired and then fired Robert Fleischman. It was Herbie who hired Steve Perry at the objection of the band. Back then, from the beginning up to ROR, it was Herbie who tried to treat the band like family where everybody shared the pie, the profits, of "Journey". Everyone was equal up to the point where Perry fired Smith and Valory and hired hands were hired and the Perry/Schon/Cain LLC was created. Even at that point, it was Herbie who insisted that Smith and Valory exited Journey respectfully, in the same way Gregg Rolie did. Herbie tried his best to keep "Journey" united as a band where everybody shared equally and no one or three people were more important.

Neal Schon owns the sinking mothership of Journey of recent years, after the exit of Augeri, where HE tried to claim ownership of everything. Neal is the one who started advertising himself as this Journey icon who had control of the band. That was NOT the case from 1975 through 2007 or so. And, up to 1985, Journey controlled "Journey", not a LLC with hired hands. In fact, during ROR, it was Steve Perry who really controlled Journey, which pissed Neal off...but he and Jonathan went along with it.

As for today, nobody really knows how all the legal stuff goes because the settlement for Neal's lawsuits of Nightmare/Smith/Valory were kept sealed. Last I looked, Nightmare still existed and Smith and Valory were still leading it...after the settlement. So, either Nightmare controls the Journey trademark and licenses it to Freedom LLC. Or, part of the settlement is that Freedom LLC controls the trademark. If Nightmare owns the trademark, then they control how Neal can use the name...which I think it would be stupid to allow him to call his band "Journey". Maybe "Neal Schon's Journey", or something similar, would be more likely. If Freedom LLC owns the trademark, then, yes, either Neal has to buy out Jonathan's half, or Jonathan has to approve of any use of the name...which, again, I think it would be stupid to allow Neal to use "Journey" as his band name. And, if I were Jonathan, I would not sell his portion of the ownership.

Anyway I look at it, Neal is cornered and should just take what he can get in these last years of his life and try to be happy about it. Every other former member of Journey seems to be doing this.

[jestor92]

What is going on here? Do people just forget history? Neal Schon having Journey is a recent thing. It is something NEAL SCHON invented.

It was HERBIE who had the idea for creating a band around Neal Schon. It was Herbie who picked all the players in the band. It was Herbie who hired and then fired Robert Fleischman. It was Herbie who hired Steve Perry at the objection of the band. Back then, from the beginning up to ROR, it was Herbie who tried to treat the band like family where everybody shared the pie, the profits, of "Journey". Everyone was equal up to the point where Perry fired Smith and Valory and hired hands were hired and the Perry/Schon/Cain LLC was created. Even at that point, it was Herbie who insisted that Smith and Valory exited Journey respectfully, in the same way Gregg Rolie did. Herbie tried his best to keep "Journey" united as a band where everybody shared equally and no one or three people were more important.

Neal Schon owns the sinking mothership of Journey of recent years, after the exit of Augeri, where HE tried to claim ownership of everything. Neal is the one who started advertising himself as this Journey icon who had control of the band. That was NOT the case from 1975 through 2007 or so. And, up to 1985, Journey controlled "Journey", not a LLC with hired hands. In fact, during ROR, it was Steve Perry who really controlled Journey, which pissed Neal off...but he and Jonathan went along with it.

As for today, nobody really knows how all the legal stuff goes because the settlement for Neal's lawsuits of Nightmare/Smith/Valory were kept sealed. Last I looked, Nightmare still existed and Smith and Valory were still leading it...after the settlement. So, either Nightmare controls the Journey trademark and licenses it to Freedom LLC. Or, part of the settlement is that Freedom LLC controls the trademark. If Nightmare owns the trademark, then they control how Neal can use the name...which I think it would be stupid to allow him to call his band "Journey". Maybe "Neal Schon's Journey", or something similar, would be more likely. If Freedom LLC owns the trademark, then, yes, either Neal has to buy out Jonathan's half, or Jonathan has to approve of any use of the name...which, again, I think it would be stupid to allow Neal to use "Journey" as his band name. And, if I were Jonathan, I would not sell his portion of the ownership.

Anyway I look at it, Neal is cornered and should just take what he can get in these last years of his life and try to be happy about it. Every other former member of Journey seems to be doing this.

Is Perry still getting paid from the split?

[Monker]

Is Perry still getting paid from the split?

That is a good point, too. Unless something happened in the settlement (which is sealed and not public), yes, his exit during TBF gave him a percent of revenue. It went down each year until it reached 12% of all revenue. To avoid that, Neal would not be able to use "Journey"....unless Perry gave it up in the settlement.

Neal continuing as "Journey" makes less and less sense, and cents.

[ebake02]

I'm fucking annoyed he's been MIA from his Journey obligations this year to focus instead on Charlie Kirk and gospel music...

I feel the same way about this myself, it makes me wonder if Jon will just phone in his performance again on this tour like he has for the last several years. People here can bitch and moan about Neal all they want but he is the only one who is making any sort of effort to keep the band relevant and in the public eye. (America's Got Talent, The Voice, etc...)

[Journey/Survivor]

I'm fucking annoyed he's been MIA from his Journey obligations this year to focus instead on Charlie Kirk and gospel music...

I feel the same way about this myself, it makes me wonder if Jon will just phone in his performance again on this tour like he has for the last several years. People here can bitch and moan about Neal all they want but he is the only one who is making any sort of effort to keep the band relevant and in the public eye. (America's Got Talent, The Voice, etc...)

Absolutely! The Schon bashing on this forum is beyond ridiculous. Does Schon sometimes do things that I strongly disagree with? Yes, definitely! But the non-stop bitching and moaning about him is over the top to say the least. Schon is the main reason that Journey is still as active and high-profile as they are right now. Journey appears to just be a paycheck to Cain anymore.

[Loneman1]

I'm fucking annoyed he's been MIA from his Journey obligations this year to focus instead on Charlie Kirk and gospel music...

I feel the same way about this myself, it makes me wonder if Jon will just phone in his performance again on this tour like he has for the last several years. People here can bitch and moan about Neal all they want but he is the only one who is making any sort of effort to keep the band relevant and in the public eye. (America's Got Talent, The Voice, etc...)

Absolutely! The Schon bashing on this forum is beyond ridiculous. Does Schon sometimes do things that I strongly disagree with? Yes, definitely! But the non-stop bitching and moaning about him is over the top to say the least. Schon is the main reason that Journey is still as active and high-profile as they are right now. Journey appears to just be a paycheck to Cain anymore.

I've been guilty of a few remarks regarding Freedom's production and all the legal stuff that was overshadowing the music for awhile there, but you're absolutely right that he's the only Journey ambassador and has been for a long while. It was looking like the band was coming to an end for a bit there and to be honest I was more or less ready for that but now I gotta say I'm a little excited to see a new shift in everything with Cain's departure. When Neal is passionate in his playing and his band situation is functioning good things happen, and letting him have 100% control with Cain taking off could bear some interesting fruit. Who knows what'll come to pass but I hope he'll put his money where is mouth is and fulfill whatever vision he has.

The dirty dozen has gone reaaaaally stale for a long time now but of course its necessary for the masses that haven't seen them before, I feel like there may be more freedom in the setlists with Neal calling all the shots, at least a few songs that need to be dusted off and rotated around. The recent post by Journey on their FB page mentioning the first three albums raised my eyebrow.

I guess time will tell!

[The_Noble_Cause]

People here can bitch and moan about Neal all they want but he is the only one who is making any sort of effort to keep the band relevant and in the public eye. (America's Got Talent, The Voice, etc...)

If they had actually retained top-tier management (ex. QPrime) as planned, this wouldn't even be up for discussion.
I don't expect the guitarist or keyboardist or bassist to be in charge of PR strategy.

[The_Noble_Cause]

When Neal is passionate in his playing and his band situation is functioning good things happen, and letting him have 100% control with Cain taking off could bear some interesting fruit.

Regarding NS having 100% control going forward......we don't even know if he will be able to use the name Journey.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Schon is the main reason that Journey is still as active and high-profile as they are right now.

Yeh, because they burned bridges with countless managers. Who is even representing them now? Anybody?

[Loneman1]

When Neal is passionate in his playing and his band situation is functioning good things happen, and letting him have 100% control with Cain taking off could bear some interesting fruit.

Regarding NS having 100% control going forward......we don't even know if he will be able to use the name Journey.

This is very true, but unless Cain just wants to be a dick I don't see what the issue would be if he doesn't want to do it anymore as long as he's well compensated? Same goes for Perry being involved in the ownership of the name with whatever that '85 LLC the three horsemen had, no skin off his nose since he'll just sit back and take in whatever percentage he gets like he has been for decades now. Also as far as I know there hasn't been much mending of fences between Cain and Perry since Cain called him in '97 or '98 and said we're moving on so he probably won't mind all that much that he'll be out of the picture.

Even if it does end up being forbidden to use the proper name Journey, whatever it will be called will still be the next proper evolution of the band IMO.

[Journey/Survivor]

Schon is the main reason that Journey is still as active and high-profile as they are right now.

Yeh, because they burned bridges with countless managers. Who is even representing them now? Anybody?

Actually, Schon, or Schon & Cain together, seem to be doing a better job of promoting the band than Irving Azoff ever did. The reason why the band got all of the high profile TV appearances while Azoff was the manager, was because of the Arnel Pineda story. And who hired Arnel? That would be Schon/Schon & Cain. Not Azoff.

Azoff sucked as their manager.

Maybe Q Prime was doing well? But I don't think that they did any better than Schon &Cain are doing?

And there is no excuse for Journey having been treated like they were an opening band for Def Leppard on a couple of those tours. I know that they were officially co-headliners on those tours. But they were treated like an opening band in some ways. Journey never should have done any worse than having been co-headliners that alternated who went on first and second each show.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is very true, but unless Cain just wants to be a dick I don't see what the issue would be if he doesn't want to do it anymore as long as he's well compensated?

I can't pretend to know what Cain is thinking. However, based on the fractious behavior going, I would not give Neal the name.

Even if it does end up being forbidden to use the proper name Journey, whatever it will be called will still be the next proper evolution of the band IMO.

It's barely Journey right now as it is.

[Journey/Survivor]

I've been guilty of a few remarks regarding Freedom's production and all the legal stuff that was overshadowing the music for awhile there, but you're absolutely right that he's the only Journey ambassador and has been for a long while. It was looking like the band was coming to an end for a bit there and to be honest I was more or less ready for that but now I gotta say I'm a little excited to see a new shift in everything with Cain's departure. When Neal is passionate in his playing and his band situation is functioning good things happen, and letting him have 100% control with Cain taking off could bear some interesting fruit. Who knows what'll come to pass but I hope he'll put his money where is mouth is and fulfill whatever vision he has.

The dirty dozen has gone reaaaaally stale for a long time now but of course its necessary for the masses that haven't seen them before, I feel like there may be more freedom in the setlists with Neal calling all the shots, at least a few songs that need to be dusted off and rotated around. The recent post by Journey on their FB page mentioning the first three albums raised my eyebrow.

I guess time will tell!

I do agree with you, and others, who say that Schon did get too involved in a bad way in regards to the overly echoey sound on certain songs on the Freedom album.

I would love for them to record one last album as Journey that is in the vein of Escape or to a lesser extent, Arrival.

And then I want Schon to take over full control of the sound and make music more along the lines of Eclipse once Cain is gone.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Actually, Schon, or Schon & Cain together, seem to be doing a better job of promoting the band than Irving Azoff ever did. The reason why the band got all of the high profile TV appearances while Azoff was the manager, was because of the Arnel Pineda story. And who hired Arnel? That would be Schon/Schon & Cain. Not Azoff.

Azoff sucked as their manager.

I would gladly take the professional stability of the Azoff years over the endless chaos/drama we currently endure.

Also, I think you are severely underestimating Azoff's involvement with the launch of the Arnel lineup.

ALl those high profile media appearances (Oprah, Ellen, CBS Sunday Morning etc.) and articles leading up to the release of Revelation didn't book themselves.

There was clearly a strategic and orchestrated publicity campaign.

Azoff was also behind the deal with Walmart to exclusively release his clients’ new music - like Revelation.

Maybe Q Prime was doing well?

We'll never know. By the time the TWWUTB music video came out, they were already gone. Just like multiple others since.

But I don't think that they did any better than Schon &Cain are doing?

Booking TV appearances is nice. That doesn't offset all the three-ring dysfunctionality going on elsewhere.

[Loneman1]

I can't pretend to know what Cain is thinking. However, based on the fractious behavior going, I would not give Neal the name.

Sure Its been pretty chaotic, but if not Neal, who should the name go to? As erratic as he's been in recent years, he is still the core of the band like it started out as. If there was a good reason not to continue the Journey band/brand with the name, then it would make sense to stop but it doesn't really feel like thats the case anymore. This seems like a variation of Perry/Schon/Cain partnership that was created once all the other members other than those three were essentially hired hands, some more glorified than others but still likely replaceable in their eyes. This time its Cain bowing out instead of Perry but the ship keeps on going.

It's barely Journey right now as it is.

True its strayed pretty far from the glory days or even the very beginning, but its kind of been that way for a long while now with new guys like Narada, Jason Derlakta, or the guy before him or old players Like Randy Jackson coming and going. Whats a few more years to let Neal put a period at the end of the long saga that was started with him if he's willing? None of the other main members want to even be there and time is still undefeated unfortunately and there is a finite amount of time for ANY of that core group left can really go out and play as any form of Journey.

How in the hell do I always get so damn long winded every time I post? Apologies.

[Monker]

Sure Its been pretty chaotic, but if not Neal, who should the name go to? As erratic as he's been in recent years, he is still the core of the band like it started out as. If there was a good reason not to continue the Journey band/brand with the name, then it would make sense to stop but it doesn't really feel like thats the case anymore. This seems like a variation of Perry/Schon/Cain partnership that was created once all the other members other than those three were essentially hired hands, some more glorified than others but still likely replaceable in their eyes. This time its Cain bowing out instead of Perry but the ship keeps on going.

Here is the problem with ALL of what you are saying: You do NOT know who owns the Journey name because the settlement of Neal's lawsuit is sealed, not public. It could be NIGHTMARE who owns the Journey name and they license it to Freedom LLC. Freedom LLC could own the Journey name, which mean Neal and Jonathan each own equal share of the name. Or, maybe Neal and Jonathan as a partnership own the Journey name regardless of what LLC they use for the business of Journey.

If Nightmare owns it, Neal alone will have to convince them that he alone deserves to use the name. If Freedom LLC owns it, then he has to create a new LLC and buy out Jonathan's portion of it. In addition to all of that, there is the settlement with Steve Perry after TBF and how 12% of all Journey revenue is given to him...how does this still legally happen and avoid a lawsuit from Steve Perry? It's not a simple matter of "Let Neal Schon use the name." There are many, many reasons to just call it "Neal Schon's Journey"...and talk to Nightmare or Jonathan and sign a contract that allows him to do it. Talk to Steve Perry and his lawyers to ensure he doesn't get sued over it.

If Arnel leaves along with Jonathan, is this band even going to sell tickets like they do now? A lot of assumptions are going on here. Neal has a habit of making plans executing them before he even knows if they are doable...which is a big reason why I do not think he should be running "Journey".

[Loneman1]

Here is the problem with ALL of what you are saying: You do NOT know who owns the Journey name because the settlement of Neal's lawsuit is sealed, not public. It could be NIGHTMARE who owns the Journey name and they license it to Freedom LLC. Freedom LLC could own the Journey name, which mean Neal and Jonathan each own equal share of the name. Or, maybe Neal and Jonathan as a partnership own the Journey name regardless of what LLC they use for the business of Journey.

If Nightmare owns it, Neal alone will have to convince them that he alone deserves to use the name. If Freedom LLC owns it, then he has to create a new LLC and buy out Jonathan's portion of it. In addition to all of that, there is the settlement with Steve Perry after TBF and how 12% of all Journey revenue is given to him...how does this still legally happen and avoid a lawsuit from Steve Perry? It's not a simple matter of "Let Neal Schon use the name." There are many, many reasons to just call it "Neal Schon's Journey"...and talk to Nightmare or Jonathan and sign a contract that allows him to do it. Talk to Steve Perry and his lawyers to ensure he doesn't get sued over it.

If Arnel leaves along with Jonathan, is this band even going to sell tickets like they do now? A lot of assumptions are going on here. Neal has a habit of making plans executing them before he even knows if they are doable...which is a big reason why I do not think he should be running "Journey".

Oh you are 100% correct in the fact we have no real idea what is actually going on legally, no one except the band knows all those details. All my BS is based on what we can piece together based on documents shared and history of the band thats played out in front of us. Its pure speculation, but that is a pretty big part of being a fan of this band it seems. For years and years we got dribbles of this and that which sends all the board(s) into a decent, if not sometimes argumentative discussions. NO ONE has any real idea what is actually going to happen, but I personally love the individual speculation while there is a lull in the facts.

I'm sure Nightmare Inc will have to chime in, and its a valid question about whether or not even marketing a version of Journey without a true front man like Arnel rocking the whole stage would even be viable remains to be seen. Its gonna be interesting to watch it all unfold, and the end of the tour in 2027 is pretty far away with any number of things possibly happening before then. My own speculation is leaning on what I'd personally like to happen based on things that have been brought to light previously. It might not even be remotely close to the real plan, but I'm a little more excited at any kind of potential shake up in the status-quo that we've had for a long time now. The "ifs' and "maybes" are doing a lot of heavy lifting in this conversation at the moment for sure.

[JourneyHard]

The announcement proudly boasts the following: Billed as "A Special Evening With Journey", the tour will feature a new stage production and a career-spanning setlist packed with the band's biggest hits, along with a handful of deeper cuts for longtime fans.

Let me guess the deeper cuts will be La Do Da, Escape, Dead or Alive, Mother Father, and Let It Rain. This isn't an exciting new setlist. It is the same thing they have been doing the last five years. A Special Evening with Journey should have 15 deep cuts along with the biggest hits. Instead, it sounds like it is just going to be the 70-minute concert without the second band. Rip-off!