Final Frontier Tour Setlist Thread

[The_Noble_Cause]

Well, Valory and Smith were hired hands, not part of the LLC.

Hard to believe that Ross was on contract. I thought the original formation of NOMOTA included him - maybe not.

If Schon and Cain were united, they could tell everybody else to either agree to playing with Santana or quit and they would hire someone else. If Jonathan wanted to perform with Santana and Neal caved to Valory/Smith, then Neal agreed to not doing it and is as much to blame as they are.

I don't think any of them - except Neal - were interested in the idea. Without Azoff's support, it's basically dead in the water anyway.

[Eric]

Recent adds include: Chain reaction and When you Love a Woman

[Monker]

Well, Valory and Smith were hired hands, not part of the LLC.

Hard to believe that Ross was on contract. I thought the original formation of NOMOTA included him - maybe not.

From what I understand is when Perry fired Smith/Valory, that was when Elmo Brothers was created for Perry/Schon/Cain and Nightmare licensed the trademark to them. When Perry negotiated his firing, part of that settlement was for Schon/Cain to create a new LLC to handle Journey business and Perry received his revenue share through that settlement. That resulted in NoMoTa. NoMoTa came out of Elmo Brothers where Valory/Smith were not a part of. If you want to go look up the LLC filings, you can find who the owners are and who the employees are. I believe I saw Valory as an "employee" (along with Deen and Augeri) when I looked it up back during the lawsuit(s).

I don't think any of them - except Neal - were interested in the idea. Without Azoff's support, it's basically dead in the water anyway.

That would make sense to me. Azoff said 'no' and nobody else besides Neal wanted to fight for it. Makes me wonder what Herbie would have done...It seems like he would have seen it as a marketing opportunity and been all for it...telling the "band" to suck it up and do it. But, maybe there are other reasons that nobody knows about...maybe Santana management wanted more $'s to do it...just making things up here...but there may be something behind the scenes that we can not know about.

[Journey/Survivor]

Has there ever been another rock band besides Journey that has had such a complex setup as Journey? Nightmare, Elmo, Nocturne. I've never heard of another band that had so many companies, and such complicated business structure.

[jrnyman28]

Not to mention Jon is not a fan of certain eras/styles…

Cain has been singing Rolie's parts on FTW/Anytime/JTSW ever since Perry left.
It's one of the few parts of the show were he seems almost animated.
If he truly hated it, why do it?

I was referring to the pre-Perry stuff

[jrnyman28]

Reminder - if Jon voted with everyone else (Ross, Smith, Herbie, and Perry), Neal may not even be in Journey right now.

Wasn’t that vote about “seats” in the Corporation? President, VP, etc.? I didn’t think it had anything to do with playing in the band.

To this day, Schon continues to blame "former management" for misc. band issues.

Azoff MGMT seriously dropped the ball with Journey. He worked magic with Eagles and Fleetwood Mac. He didn’t show much interest in Journey…

[jrnyman28]

Arnel can barely shoulder the dirty dozen.

He sings 17 songs

"The Dirty Dozen" is a phrase used by Ross to refer to the mandatory songs they had to play every night. Augeri also sang more than twelve during Evening With shows. Unlike Arnel, however, he didn't get nearly as many breaks.

From what I am hearing, I am not optimistic about a two year run without something changing.

I’d like to think the vocal assist Arnel receives from Deen, Jason and now Jon, is an example of Journey learning from their past…specifically burning Augeri out.

When I saw the original 60-ish tour dates announced I was immediately concerned with Arnel’s stamina.

[Monker]

Interesting...if you go here: https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business
and search for: Nightmare Productions, Inc.

You can see that since the lawsuit(s) the incorporation for Nightmare has fallen behind in their filings and/or fees and/or taxes and their corporate status is actually suspended. If you look through the history of documents, the last couple updates show Neal as Chief Executive Officer, Secretary, Chief Financial Officer. And, Jonathan as VP...and nobody else listed. Hmmm, who is President? LOL So, I guess they own NIghtmare now but Neal and his lawyers are incompetent and do not know how to keep Nightmare's "shit" up to date? Or, maybe they just don't care. Or, maybe they are still fighting over stuff...who knows. But, from what I read, Nightmare is sort of a dead company right now.

This is what the corporate status means:

A "suspended FTB" status means the California Franchise Tax Board has suspended a business entity's power, rights, and privileges, usually for failing to file tax returns, pay taxes, or submit required filings. This status prevents the business from operating legally, selling property, or filing lawsuits in California.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not to mention Jon is not a fan of certain eras/styles…

Cain has been singing Rolie's parts on FTW/Anytime/JTSW ever since Perry left.
It's one of the few parts of the show were he seems almost animated.
If he truly hated it, why do it?

I was referring to the pre-Perry stuff

I just don't really see proof of that....

Cain used to play "Of A Lifetime" as part of a medley in 98 and sang all sorts of Rolie stuff when they tried it on the 30th tour (Mystery Mountain, I'm Gonna Leave You etc.).

Cain could quit today and that stuff would not be played on this tour. It would clear the venue.

[ADALBL]

I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think Perry took a lot of takes to get that most recent version of Faithfully up to scratch - I enjoy it but he definitely doesn't sound great

I think that was strong. Imagine what it would sound like with Perry today Just by comparison.

Well considering Perry actually recently released a current version of Faithfully that was only tuned down 1/2 step (same key he sung the song in on his last solo tour) we don't have to imagine, we know. And to my ear I thought he sounded great. Yes it was a different version but it was Perry, singing great, with that unmistakable timbre that makes his voice uniquely special and his pitch and phrasing was still absolutely top notch. Yes it was studio as opposed to live but my guess is his live version would be very similar.

I seriously doubt he needed many takes once he figured out how to fit his vocals around Willie's singing. He is notorious for recording vocals that are one take all the way through and essentially live. Maybe he did a couple of takes to try some different phrasing and stylistic variations to see which sounded best but I don't think he needed 20 takes just to get the timing and pitch in place. He still has command of his voice and the ease and effortlessness of the vocal is apparent. As for sounding great, that is obviously opinion but if you assess that by considering accuracy of pitch, phrasing/timing, timbre of the voice, effortlessness of delivery and emotional presentation, my opinion is he still sounds great. A bit different than when he was younger for sure but still a voice I'm in awe of and enjoy listening to more than any other voice in the world.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wasn’t that vote about “seats” in the Corporation? President, VP, etc.? I didn’t think it had anything to do with playing in the band.

Not according to Neal. Per his last Rolling Stone interview...

"It was pretty ugly for myself as they were trying to kick me out of my own band."

and from a separate 2021 interview

"Azoff actually said to me, 'Why don't you quit?' at one point. I said, 'I'm not quitting. I've been here all my life. Why don't you quit?'"

Even if the vote was just to demote him, Neal clearly viewed it as something more - a means to an end.

Azoff MGMT seriously dropped the ball with Journey. He worked magic with Eagles and Fleetwood Mac. He didn’t show much interest in Journey…

Perhaps in the Augeri years, but I think he worked magic with Arnel.

AP's story was all over the media (Oprah, Ellen, Wall Street Journal, CBS News). The Walmart exclusive deal was also Azoff's. I think he helped to give them a second (or third) lease on life. Sopranos and Glee paved the way, and Azoff seized the opportunity and put his machine to work. I think he would've done the same if they kept Jeremey. Arnel's rags-to-riches story had more notoriety tho.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Interesting...if you go here: https://bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business
and search for: Nightmare Productions, Inc.

You can see that since the lawsuit(s) the incorporation for Nightmare has fallen behind in their filings and/or fees and/or taxes and their corporate status is actually suspended. If you look through the history of documents, the last couple updates show Neal as Chief Executive Officer, Secretary, Chief Financial Officer. And, Jonathan as VP...and nobody else listed. Hmmm, who is President? LOL So, I guess they own NIghtmare now but Neal and his lawyers are incompetent and do not know how to keep Nightmare's "shit" up to date? Or, maybe they just don't care. Or, maybe they are still fighting over stuff...who knows. But, from what I read, Nightmare is sort of a dead company right now.

This is what the corporate status means:

A "suspended FTB" status means the California Franchise Tax Board has suspended a business entity's power, rights, and privileges, usually for failing to file tax returns, pay taxes, or submit required filings. This status prevents the business from operating legally, selling property, or filing lawsuits in California.

Sounds about right. Incompetent is the operative term. Thanks for checking!

[The_Noble_Cause]

I’d like to think the vocal assist Arnel receives from Deen, Jason and now Jon, is an example of Journey learning from their past…specifically burning Augeri out.

I think that was initially the case. Now they are in Augeri territory and tiptoeing around a singer who is on the verge of being totally burned out. Or may already be.

[Loneman1]

Yeah, I remember when Santana was on the same bill as Journey in the bay area several years ago, and everyone figured they'd jam at some point.  I asked Neal on FB why they didn't end up doing something on stage and figured it was Carlos that wasn't into it, but his response was along the lines of "It wasn't Carlos that nixed it", which at the time was pretty pointed toward Jon since they were having some of their many issues at the time.  I could see Jon only wanting to do mostly the stuff he was featured on during his tenure since this is his last tour, but that is pretty damn petty if thats the reason for no pre-Perry songs.

In his last Rolling Stone interview, Schon blamed Azoff and multiple members for not letting the 2017 co-tour with Santana happen ("Management did not want it, and some members did not want it").

Considering that Ross and Smith would be fired a few years later, how can you be so sure the problem was all Jon?

Reminder - if Jon voted with everyone else (Ross, Smith, Herbie, and Perry), Neal may not even be in Journey right now.

More than likely none of the guys - except Neal - were really interested in doing the Santana jam idea.

To this day, Schon continues to blame "former management" for misc. band issues.

I have no doubt that Cain will also achieve some sort of phantom boogeyman status after this tour concludes and is long gone.

It gets old.

Jon was kind of notorious for butting heads with Neal around that time about the band in general, and while Smith and Valory were probably able to have a say, I seriously doubt they would have been the ones having an issue since they were still seemingly "go with the flow" about most things. Steve Smith probably would have enjoyed switching up his style for a song or two for the Latin rooted stuff since his talents are a bit wasted on Journey stuff, and Ross likely would have been into jamming with everyone. His whole thing nowadays seems like jamming on YouTube and other streaming so he's still very much in that mindset.

Jon just doesn't seem to really enjoy what he's doing in the band anymore and hasn't for awhile mostly so any additional effort back then probably wasn't something he was into. I was just saying that to my understanding based on the interaction with Neal, it was pretty clear at least to me in the context of who he was alluding to. Its all speculation since none of us are in any of the guys heads, but it adds up enough for me.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Jon was kind of notorious for butting heads with Neal around that time about the band in general, and while Smith and Valory were probably able to have a say, I seriously doubt they would have been the ones having an issue since they were still seemingly "go with the flow" about most things. Steve Smith probably would have enjoyed switching up his style for a song or two for the Latin rooted stuff since his talents are a bit wasted on Journey stuff, and Ross likely would have been into jamming with everyone. His whole thing nowadays seems like jamming on YouTube and other streaming so he's still very much in that mindset.

Neal once said about Ross - "he's no help" - or something to that effect. Neal also stated that Smith had no interest in recording new music. Like I said, it's Neal vs. the world. Marco Mendoza said in a interview that he almost replaced Ross on a Journey album. So I don't believe that everybody was happy-go-lucky aside from Jon. Ultimately, when it came down to voting Neal out of his own band (Neal's words - not mine), only Jon stood beside him. When Neal wanted to throw away the commercial sales momentum of Revelation and "rock hard" on Eclipse, Jon went along it.

It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next few years and who the new scapegoat will be.

[jrnyman28]

I was referring to the pre-Perry stuff

I just don't really see proof of that....

Cain used to play "Of A Lifetime" as part of a medley in 98 and sang all sorts of Rolie stuff when they tried it on the 30th tour (Mystery Mountain, I'm Gonna Leave You etc.).

Cain could quit today and that stuff would not be played on this tour. It would clear the venue.

[/quote]

Cain has continuously spoken of preferring the “legacy” sound, he has not been favorably to Neal’s “rock” Journey. I feel like since the 30th Anniversary tour he closed the book on the pre-Perry chapter. And, yes, it is quite likely Neal recognizes that that material does not go over well to the masses. But I also think they could intro with an early instrumental or slide a bit of Spaceman in there somewhere.

[jrnyman28]

I’d like to think the vocal assist Arnel receives from Deen, Jason and now Jon, is an example of Journey learning from their past…specifically burning Augeri out.

I think that was initially the case. Now they are in Augeri territory and tiptoeing around a singer who is on the verge of being totally burned out. Or may already be.

Agreed

[The_Noble_Cause]

Cain has continuously spoken of preferring the “legacy” sound, he has not been favorably to Neal’s “rock” Journey.

After Eclipse, I remember reading that Cain felt they should go back to finding balance. Which is pretty reasonable - and you def. hear it on Freedom. I don't know how you can say he has not been "favorable" to Neal's rock Journey. He was the chief songwriter on both Red 13 and Eclipse, which is the hardest they've ever rocked. He was critical of the commercial reception of those albums - but he also expressed disappointed in the sales of other less rockier Journey albums too.

The only time the "legacy sound" was really mentioned was in the press release announcing Arnel's hiring. Neal is always quick to mention how he personally found AP on the internet and plucked him out of obscurity.

I feel like since the 30th Anniversary tour he closed the book on the pre-Perry chapter.

I understand you are displeased with the lack of early material in the set list. I am too. However, to me, it just looks like you are trying to blame someone. We'll see what the future holds.

[danielb]

A bit different than when he was younger for sure but still a voice I'm in awe of and enjoy listening to more than any other voice in the world.

I would say a lot different. It sounds as if he's in mourning all the time now. The acrobatic side to his singing not what it once was. This makes him more limited in the choice of melodies he can go for.

[Eric]

“Where were you” added last show.

[Journey/Survivor]

Any of you know what the setlist was for Columbus? Or Pittsburgh?

[Eric]

Any of you know what the setlist was for Columbus? Or Pittsburgh?

All set lists (for all bands) are at this site.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/ ... feda0.html

[Journey/Survivor]

Any of you know what the setlist was for Columbus? Or Pittsburgh?

All set lists (for all bands) are at this site.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/ ... feda0.html

Thank you!


And I see that I did miss out on a great set list.

[HydraRed]

Tempted to make the trek out to Austin next Tuesday..I feel like a Rolie appearance is in order.

Either that or OKC. I'm in the DFW metroplex, and I'm sure a 2027 stop is guaranteed but who knows if the show will be the same format or if another band will be added to the bill.