Perry, Sony, Solo vs. Jrny and the TBF Fall Out

[Vladan]

I always thought Michael Bolton could of been a great choice for a Journey frontman. He did play with John and Neal didn't he, filled in for Perry. Is that footage anywhere to be heard or seen? sounds rare.

[Enigma869]

I always thought Michael Bolton could of been a great choice for a Journey frontman. He did play with John and Neal didn't he, filled in for Perry. Is that footage anywhere to be heard or seen? sounds rare.

Bolton in Journey??? No thanks Vlad!!!! Wasn't Bolton in some hardcore metal band years ago, or am I imagining that? I think the name of the band was Krokus??? I thought I heard that somewhere, and I was quite stunned!


John from Boston

[NoMoreTails]

Thanks NMT. Hughes was a great singer wasn't he? [/quote]

Yes, may still be but I haven't heard any of his more current stuff, I actually didn't care much for Hughes/Thrall but am surprised that Glenn wasn't more widely used as the sole lead singer in bands. I like quite a lot of the Hughes/Coverdale/Bolin Deep Purple stuff.

At one point I believe the label had them go write more with some outside writers, resulting in a couple more ballads w/Kim Tribble.

I haven't heard of Tribble. Any good?

Apparently a country writer, from Nashville anyway, not familiar with anything but the Journey co-writes.

I actually much prefer "Generations" to "Arrival"...but aside from "A Better Life" it's hard for me to understand why you'd feel it had the potential to rank higher than, say, "Escape" or "Frontiers".

I'm about the only Generations fan who isn't crazy about ABL, its ok, but I find it kind of lifeless in a way, the one Gens song that could have fit on ROR imo. Never Too Late was much better selection imo. I think FITH, TPIYH (another re-created greatest hit however), OOHW, BTC are as good as anything they've done. Throw in the adventurous State of Grace and The Time, etc and I'd rank it with Escape and Frontiers, my opinion of course.

The implication you make here is that Journey hadn't been interested in writing pop songs before 1986. A brief glance at the track listing on the Greatest Hits shows this isn't true.

True, but the albums those hits came from, weren't albums of just pop songs, as was the case with ROR.

Well, Neal's solos had soul...and Perry's vocals had soul...so I guess you must be referring to Jonathan Cain's contribution.

Yes to the solos, but Neal can't help but be great. I suppose it was Cain's synths and the drums definitely.

[NoMoreTails]

As for ROR, it was a new direction that Perry wanted, not Journey. Cain to a degree, possibly may have been interested in writing pop songs, but Neal wasn't that involved in the writing, came in did his parts, got out basically.

Well, it's never been much of a secret that Neal LOATHES "pop songs". It's not his thing, never has been his thing, and never will be his thing! I've always been stunned how open Neal has been about how much disdain he seems to have for the "pop" sound, considering that he's made his living in a band that made themselves a household name by writing these types of songs. Neal has ALWAYS been a rocker, at heart and sometimes I wonder if he isn't disappointed a bit by the music that Journey became so famous for. My hunch is that Neal probably hates most of the dirty dozen songs that put Journey on the map.

John from Boston

Yeah, and the ones he does like he's sick of playing anyway.

[Matthew]

Yes, may still be but I haven't heard any of his more current stuff, I actually didn't care much for Hughes/Thrall but am surprised that Glenn wasn't more widely used as the sole lead singer in bands. I like quite a lot of the Hughes/Coverdale/Bolin Deep Purple stuff.

Nor me. I'm basing that opinion almost entirely on "Burn" by Deep Purple.

I'm about the only Generations fan who isn't crazy about ABL, its ok, but I find it kind of lifeless in a way, the one Gens song that could have fit on ROR imo.

Yes - that or "Frontiers".

True, but the albums those hits came from, weren't albums of just pop songs, as was the case with ROR.

Good point. And I do wish they'd included at least one heavier track on Side Two. I guess the entire AOR genre had moved towards an electronic pop/rock production....Queen, Foreigner, Heart, Don Henley, Springsteen ...they were all at it. But I wouldn't call ROR out and out pop though. It's hardly like a Madonna record...

[Matthew]

As for ROR, it was a new direction that Perry wanted, not Journey. Cain to a degree, possibly may have been interested in writing pop songs, but Neal wasn't that involved in the writing, came in did his parts, got out basically.

Well, it's never been much of a secret that Neal LOATHES "pop songs". It's not his thing, never has been his thing, and never will be his thing! I've always been stunned how open Neal has been about how much disdain he seems to have for the "pop" sound, considering that he's made his living in a band that made themselves a household name by writing these types of songs. Neal has ALWAYS been a rocker, at heart and sometimes I wonder if he isn't disappointed a bit by the music that Journey became so famous for. My hunch is that Neal probably hates most of the dirty dozen songs that put Journey on the map.

John from Boston

Yeah, and the ones he does like he's sick of playing anyway.

It always amazes me how little pride and responsibility Schon takes in/for his own music.

[NoMoreTails]

As for ROR, it was a new direction that Perry wanted, not Journey. Cain to a degree, possibly may have been interested in writing pop songs, but Neal wasn't that involved in the writing, came in did his parts, got out basically.

Well, it's never been much of a secret that Neal LOATHES "pop songs". It's not his thing, never has been his thing, and never will be his thing! I've always been stunned how open Neal has been about how much disdain he seems to have for the "pop" sound, considering that he's made his living in a band that made themselves a household name by writing these types of songs. Neal has ALWAYS been a rocker, at heart and sometimes I wonder if he isn't disappointed a bit by the music that Journey became so famous for. My hunch is that Neal probably hates most of the dirty dozen songs that put Journey on the map.

John from Boston

Yeah, and the ones he does like he's sick of playing anyway.

It always amazes me how little pride and responsibility Schon takes in/for his own music.

You might say that in one context, but in another, Neal has always given quality performances on every recording, always playing brilliantly and what is appropriate for the song, so in that sense, he takes great pride in his work. His problem, and mine, with Journey's music is that the general public only knows a fraction of what Journey is about and expects Journey to be only that. I think the post-Perry Journey has been overly concerned with what people expect them to be.

[Matthew]

You might say that in one context, but in another, Neal has always given quality performances on every recording, always playing brilliantly and what is appropriate for the song, so in that sense, he takes great pride in his work.

Very true - which makes it all the more puzzling when he is so dismissive after the record has been released.

His problem, and mine, with Journey's music is that the general public only knows a fraction of what Journey is about and expects Journey to be only that. I think the post-Perry Journey has been overly concerned with what people expect them to be.

I couldn't agree more - and this is perhaps where they miss Perry. Yes, Perry was the archetypal rock star frontman in many respects - but listening to Schon's comments on the BTM documentary it seems that Schon was happy to follow Perry's directions. Left to his own devices Schon lost his way....

[NoMoreTails]

I couldn't agree more - and this is perhaps where they miss Perry. Yes, Perry was the archetypal rock sar frontman in many respects - but listening to Schon's comments on the BTM documentary it seems that Schon was happy to follow Perry's directions. Left to his own devices Schon lost his way....

While some leadership may have been missing, I'd have to say its that of Herbie as I think Perry steered Journey down the wrong path after 1983, of course Jon and Neal share in the blame for that as well as they supported Perry's decisions over Herbie's.

[Matthew]

I couldn't agree more - and this is perhaps where they miss Perry. Yes, Perry was the archetypal rock sar frontman in many respects - but listening to Schon's comments on the BTM documentary it seems that Schon was happy to follow Perry's directions. Left to his own devices Schon lost his way....

While some leadership may have been missing, I'd have to say its that of Herbie as I think Perry steered Journey down the wrong path after 1983, of course Jon and Neal share in the blame for that as well as they supported Perry's decisions over Herbie's.

Do you know why Journey haven't sacked Azoff and brought HH back? Or has HH retired now?

[finalfight]

I always thought Michael Bolton could of been a great choice for a Journey frontman. He did play with John and Neal didn't he, filled in for Perry. Is that footage anywhere to be heard or seen? sounds rare.

Terence Trent D'Arby would have been a great choice before he went mad as a fish! Vocally he has a very similar range and tone to Perry but his voice and look was/is unique enough to bypass the copy cat comparisons.

Come to think of it - he sounds like a cross between Perry and JSS, great singers without question.

[NoMoreTails]

Do you know why Journey haven't sacked Azoff and brought HH back? Or has HH retired now?

From what I've read and seen discussed here before, Herbie is retired from managing but still runs Nocturne and washed his hands of Journey after Neal and Jon agreed to Perry's demanding he be let go in favor of Azoff as a condition of Perry's returning for TBF. I think he also said Azoff wanted him to work for him with Journey post Perry, a slap in the face, asking him to work for him and Journey, his having been founder and partner in Journey. There was talk of Herbie working with Soul Sirkus at one point, probably wishful thinking on Neal's part.

[Jeremey]

I always thought Michael Bolton could of been a great choice for a Journey frontman. He did play with John and Neal didn't he, filled in for Perry. Is that footage anywhere to be heard or seen? sounds rare.

Terence Trent D'Arby would have been a great choice before he went mad as a fish! Vocally he has a very similar range and tone to Perry but his voice and look was/is unique enough to bypass the copy cat comparisons.

Come to think of it - he sounds like a cross between Perry and JSS, great singers without question.

TTD, while definitely one of the top vocalists of all time, would definitely not have been a fit for Journey! I've had every Terrence record from Introducing the Hardline to Wildcard from last year, and while I'm a huge fan, his style is a cross between alternative and traditional R&B - The only Journey song I could hear TTD covering would be "Don't Be Down On Me Baby," which actually sounds a lot like "Holding On To You" from TTD's Vibrator. Would love to hear a boot of TTD singing with INXS though...

[finalfight]

I forgot he performed with INXS.

Maybe its wishful thinking on my part but I would have loved to have seen how Terence would have panned out with Journey and still maintain that his voice would/could have fitted. To my ears at least it almost sounds like Perry and D'Arby shared some of the same musical influences, Sam Cooke for instance.

Ah, for an alternate reality where this may well have happened, afterall who could have percieved that a JSS fronted Journey would work as well as it evidently has?

Hey Jeremey, do you cover Terence Trent D'Arby in your solo act?

[Jeremey]

I forgot he performed with INXS.

Maybe its wishful thinking on my part but I would have loved to have seen how Terence would have panned out with Journey and still maintain that his voice would/could have fitted. To my ears at least it almost sounds like Perry and D'Arby shared some of the same musical influences, Sam Cooke for instance.

Ah, for an alternate reality where this may well have happened, afterall who could have percieved that a JSS fronted Journey would work as well as it evidently has?

Hey Jeremey, do you cover Terence Trent D'Arby in your solo act?

No TTD, I don't really have the voice for it anymore. However, one of the first times I performed in front of more than 15 people or so was at a college band-jam type thing my freshman year & I came out on stage and did "As Yet Untitled," which really confused people....I know that TTD considered Perry an influence though, and I believe he did thank Perry in the liner notes of "Neither Fish Nor Flesh," plus TTD basically channels Sam Cooke on many songs.

[finalfight]

I forgot he performed with INXS.

Maybe its wishful thinking on my part but I would have loved to have seen how Terence would have panned out with Journey and still maintain that his voice would/could have fitted. To my ears at least it almost sounds like Perry and D'Arby shared some of the same musical influences, Sam Cooke for instance.

Ah, for an alternate reality where this may well have happened, afterall who could have percieved that a JSS fronted Journey would work as well as it evidently has?

Hey Jeremey, do you cover Terence Trent D'Arby in your solo act?

No TTD, I don't really have the voice for it anymore. However, one of the first times I performed in front of more than 15 people or so was at a college band-jam type thing my freshman year & I came out on stage and did "As Yet Untitled," which really confused people....I know that TTD considered Perry an influence though, and I believe he did thank Perry in the liner notes of "Neither Fish Nor Flesh," plus TTD basically channels Sam Cooke on many songs.

Thanks for the info, I thought I could hear a similarity. As for you not having the voice anymore - c'mon! Anyone that can capture Perry the way you do is surely capable of singing just about anything! Hell, I think I could listen to you sing the phone book...

I had a look through a few sites and couldn't find a boot of a TTD fronted INXS. I will ask around for you though.

[Matthew]

Do you know why Journey haven't sacked Azoff and brought HH back? Or has HH retired now?

From what I've read and seen discussed here before, Herbie is retired from managing but still runs Nocturne and washed his hands of Journey after Neal and Jon agreed to Perry's demanding he be let go in favor of Azoff as a condition of Perry's returning for TBF. I think he also said Azoff wanted him to work for him with Journey post Perry, a slap in the face, asking him to work for him and Journey, his having been founder and partner in Journey. There was talk of Herbie working with Soul Sirkus at one point, probably wishful thinking on Neal's part.

HH loathes Jonathan Cain too, doesn't he? Probably another reason why he wouldn't want to return.

What are Sy Klopps like?

[Monker]

[While I have zero problem with you, or anyone else responding to mine or anyone else's post on a public message board, your "holier than thou" attitude is fucking ridiculous!

LOL...quite contradicting yourself. you either have a problem with me, or you don't. Make up your mind. At least wait until you start your next sentence before you contradict yourself...geez!

You are more full of yourself than any jackass I've ever come across on a message board (and I can assure you that I met a whole lot of them on BT over the past 6 years!).

#1: I don't care what you think of me. Why should I?
#2: You meeting people at BT should mean what to me? Cuz, it honestly means absolutely nothing to me.

However, the fact that you go in this direction in your reply tells me that you are just as full of yourself as anybody else on this forum.

First of all...If you actually read my post, you would have seen that I was thinking out loud

So what? Your thinking is flawed. Steve Smith doesn't have any special loyalty towards Steve Perry. That's just the way it is.

and unlike you, was certainly not passing off any of my thoughts as gospel (the word "seemingly" should have been your first tip that it was my OPINION)!

It's your 'opinion' based on fantasy. So, what's the problem?

[qote]Unlike you, I don't pretend to know the guys in the band or pretend that I hang out with these guys.[/quote]

Oh, please, I have never 'pretended' any of the above. I have denied that at every opportunity over the past 15yrs or so. I don't WANT to know anybody in Journey. I don't WANT to hang out with them. If JSS would have invited me backstage, I would have turned him down...not because of any angst towards him but because being too close to the music I love taints it.

What I DO know is that in interviews with Steve Smith, he has STATED that he was in it for the reunion. He would NOT have continued with the band past TBF.

Journey isn't my life, dude!

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'. It's not MY fault that you don't pay attention and base your opinions on what you WANT to be true, instead of what is true.

Do me a favor, and please make a concerted effort to skip over my postings, and I will do the same with yours!

Absolutely not...I'll reply to any post I want to...there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop that. Who knows, maybe I'll make an effort to reply to every post you make. What's to stop me?

[quote]Your condescending attitude makes me want to slap the shit out of you![/'quote]

So what? Your Journey fantasies make me want to reply to your posts! Who cares?

[NoMoreTails]

HH loathes Jonathan Cain too, doesn't he? Probably another reason why he wouldn't want to return.

What are Sy Klopps like?

Yes, he seems to think barely more of him than he does of Perry.
I have the second album, Ole Blue Eye is Back, haven't listened to it in quite a while but liked it quite well. I think its the only one on which Neal plays on every song, great playing from him and Herbie does a pretty good job on vocals.

[Matthew]

HH loathes Jonathan Cain too, doesn't he? Probably another reason why he wouldn't want to return.

What are Sy Klopps like?

Yes, he seems to think barely more of him than he does of Perry.
I have the second album, Ole Blue Eye is Back, haven't listened to it in quite a while but liked it quite well. I think its the only one on which Neal plays on every song, great playing from him and Herbie does a pretty good job on vocals.

I'll try to track that one down....

[Matthew]

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'.

Well, I followed the BTM documentary and Smith definitely gave the impression that Perry absence was a deciding factor in leaving the band.

[NoMoreTails]

HH loathes Jonathan Cain too, doesn't he? Probably another reason why he wouldn't want to return.

What are Sy Klopps like?

Yes, he seems to think barely more of him than he does of Perry.
I have the second album, Ole Blue Eye is Back, haven't listened to it in quite a while but liked it quite well. I think its the only one on which Neal plays on every song, great playing from him and Herbie does a pretty good job on vocals.

I'll try to track that one down....

You might try RossValory.com

[Matthew]

HH loathes Jonathan Cain too, doesn't he? Probably another reason why he wouldn't want to return.

What are Sy Klopps like?

Yes, he seems to think barely more of him than he does of Perry.
I have the second album, Ole Blue Eye is Back, haven't listened to it in quite a while but liked it quite well. I think its the only one on which Neal plays on every song, great playing from him and Herbie does a pretty good job on vocals.

I'll try to track that one down....

You might try RossValory.com

Thanks NMT. I'll do that now.

[NoMoreTails]

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'.

Well, I followed the BTM documentary and Smith definitely gave the impression that Perry absence was a deciding factor in leaving the band.

I haven't seen BTM in a while, but the context or editing could play a part in that impression as I do recall a Steve Smith statement in an interview that he only intended to be part of a one time reunion, album and tour. So while he wasn't interested in continuing w/Journey without Perry, he also was not interested in continuing with them under any circumstances except the TBF album and tour that never happened.

[Matthew]

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'.

Well, I followed the BTM documentary and Smith definitely gave the impression that Perry absence was a deciding factor in leaving the band.

I haven't seen BTM in a while, but the context or editing could play a part in that impression

Yes - and the fact that Steve Perry had editorial control of the documentary.

[NoMoreTails]

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'.

Well, I followed the BTM documentary and Smith definitely gave the impression that Perry absence was a deciding factor in leaving the band.

I haven't seen BTM in a while, but the context or editing could play a part in that impression

Yes - and the fact that Steve Perry had editorial control of the documentary.

Yep, he's apparently drove some hard bargains in letting Neal and Jon continue without him, if he'd been holding a hostage for ranson, he'd have gotten away with the money and the bait.
He must have had some great lawyers, I don't understand how they had to give away so much to a member who, imo, didn't even want to be in the band any longer. Maybe they really should have waited for him a couple more years, with a signed agreement that if he didn't come back at that point he was out and got nothing in return, having no say or no share other than the royalities he'd be due anyway.

[Matthew]

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'.

Well, I followed the BTM documentary and Smith definitely gave the impression that Perry absence was a deciding factor in leaving the band.

I haven't seen BTM in a while, but the context or editing could play a part in that impression

Yes - and the fact that Steve Perry had editorial control of the documentary.

Yep, he's apparently drove some hard bargains in letting Neal and Jon continue without him, if he'd been holding a hostage for ranson, he'd have gotten away with the money and the bait.
He must have had some great lawyers, I don't understand how they had to give away so much to a member who, imo, didn't even want to be in the band any longer. Maybe they really should have waited for him a couple more years, with a signed agreement that if he didn't come back at that point he was out and got nothing in return, having no say or no share other than the royalities he'd be due anyway.

This is what worries me about Schon and Cain having such a strong voice in Journey's affairs nowadays. There are just so many occasions from the 1980s to the present when they've acted in such a spineless and dopey way....and given that Azoff doesn't need to break sweat - he's so unbelievably rich - I just can't see who is going to shake things up in the right way.

Schon and Cain's financial, legal and business ineptitude is probably the main reason for the Journey name becoming so devalued over the last few years. The desperate need to tour constantly...the shameful gigs on cruiseships and corporate parties...the support slots....ANYTHING to keep money flowing in...no matter how much it distracts them from recording a first-rate album...and no matter how underhand the methods are to keep the show on the road....such as the use pre-recorded lead vocals.

Yes - I agree - they should have given Perry two more years followed by a serious ultimatum. Either it would have led to a new album with Perry or it would have bought time to prepare for the next phase of the band in a less hurried and cack-handed way.

[NoMoreTails]

The desperate need to tour constantly...the shameful gigs on cruiseships and corporate parties...the support slots....ANYTHING to keep money flowing in...no matter how much it distracts them from recording a first-rate album...

Cruises/corporate parties I agree with you, but in fairness, the "supporting slot" is officially a co-headline, though I know that it is widely viewed as them being the opener. In fact, the show I went to in VA Beach, one of the radio stations plays like two hours of music before the show from the band thats in town that night and one hour after the show, that night all three of those hours were Def Leppard tunes. That not perceiving the show as co-headliners for sure.

Yes - I agree - they should have given Perry two more years followed by a serious ultimatum. Either it would have led to a new album with Perry or it would have bought time to prepare for the next phase of the band in a less hurried and cack-handed way.

I had never before thought they should have given Perry a second more time than they did, but perhaps that would have been smarter and they wouldn't be working the streets for Perry, paraphrasing Herbie.
My only real problem with the recorded works of the Augeri era is that there wasn't enough of them. I would have liked to have seen 4 albums and 4 tours or so in 8 years instead of 2 and 1/3 albums and 8 tours in 8 years. Touring (money) has come at the expense of art and growth as a band.

[Matthew]

Cruises/corporate parties I agree with you, but in fairness, the "supporting slot" is officially a co-headline, though I know that it is widely viewed as them being the opener. In fact, the show I went to in VA Beach, one of the radio stations plays like two hours of music before the show from the band thats in town that night and one hour after the show, that night all three of those hours were Def Leppard tunes. That not perceiving the show as co-headliners for sure.

It sounds like that's happening pretty often on this tour.

Ihad never before thought they should have given Perry a second more time than they did, but perhaps that would have been smarter and they wouldn't be working the streets for Perry, paraphrasing Herbie.

I loved that quote from HH...cruel though it was...

My only real problem with the recorded works of the Augeri era is that there wasn't enough of them. I would have liked to have seen 4 albums

I reckon Augeri wasn't charismatic enough to win over the majority of the fan base who lost interest in the band in 1998 - and a fourth album might have hurt Journey's reputation in the record stores still further.

Touring (money) has come at the expense of art and growth as a band.

Yes, I agree. Where do you stand on JSS?

[Monker]

Obviously not...Anybody who read any of Steve Smith's interviews, or followed him at all, would know he has shown no special loyalty towards Perry and was in the reunion only for the 'reunion'.

Well, I followed the BTM documentary and Smith definitely gave the impression that Perry absence was a deciding factor in leaving the band.

You're simply wrong. He said he set time aside to do Journey. When that time was up he went back to his band, because his career as a Jazz musician was slipping and had to be rebuilt. He said he still enjoys doing the occasional session, but he "aspires" to do Jazz, and clinics, and teach what he knows.

He would not be in Journey today, just as he isn't in the Storm today. Pop and rock is his occasional fling...He's married to Jazz.

Steve Smith from Modern Drummer magazine:

Something new I brought to the reunion was a sense of detachment from the
"band experience." Before, the band was incredibly important to me and the
outlet was really crucial in that I wanted to demonstrate everything I knew,
my ability and knowledge--and I was trying to squeeze everything in, which
can cause a lot of tension. In some ways it can create some great music, and
there's something to be said for that. But behind that, there was also
somewhat of a lack of awareness of what might he the most appropriate thing
to play. Now I just cut to the chase without taking some unnecessary,
circuitous route. Having a lot of experience as a hired hand now, I do what
the people who hire me want, and there are boundaries to be creative within,
which is the challenge so I take the challenge and if they like it, great,
and if they don't, I'm not attached to it; I'm just there to do my job. I've
learned something through the experience, but I'm not attached to it. I
approached this situation with that sense of professionalism and
objectivity."

That doesn't sound like somebody loyal to Steve Perry to me. It sounds like somebody very 'unattached' to the reunion and approaching it as a session player. He was there for the reunion and to give the fans a better ending then ROR.

And, as far as him even being in a rock band on any long term basis...

Steve Smith in Rythm Magazine, 2002:

But since I left Journey I never looked back so far as the rock thing: been
there, done that. I still enjoy doing the occasional sessions -- I'm on the
new Savage Garden record and Gavin Harrison and I are both on Claudio
Baglioni's new album, this Italian pop star. I do enough sessions -- but I
don't aspire to do sessions -- I aspire to play with my group and play jazz
and do clinics and hopefully now educate and write."