Just in! Journey Cracks Down on Tribute Band Videos

[Don]

Where is this info even coming from? You can still watch every Journey tribute band video out there... They haven't been pulled down!

I think it's the youtube links on the individual tribute band websites that need to be removed.

So you agree with this action and think it's a good idea?

I think the real reason for the action may be suspect but that's my own opinion. As far as pulling tribute videos from Youtube itself. I think if they went as far as trying to pull the videos there, the question would arise as how it was not an issue while Neal was scouting singers. If it's a management request because of licensing, then all the live bootlegs videos are in the same boat as they are all unauthorized and don't pay any licensing to Nomota or Sony. Theoretically Steve Perry could even request any video not officially released by Sony or Journey that is on the net with a song he co-penned to be removed. It's a slippery slope but the main issue here, hosting links on your OWN site from outside sources like youtube has always been known to be technically afoul of copyright.

[Archetype]

Where is this info even coming from? You can still watch every Journey tribute band video out there... They haven't been pulled down!

I think it's the youtube links on the individual tribute band websites that need to be removed.

So you agree with this action and think it's a good idea?

I think the real reason for the action may be suspect but that's my own opinion. As far as pulling tribute videos from Youtube itself. I think if they went as far as trying to pull the videos there, the question would arise as how it was not an issue while Neal was scouting singers. If it's a management request because of licensing, then all the live bootlegs videos are in the same boat as they are all unauthorized and don't pay any licensing to Nomota or Sony. Theoretically Steve Perry could even request any video not officially released by Sony or Journey that is on the net with a song he co-penned to be removed. It's a slippery slope but the main issue here, hosting links on your OWN site from outside sources like youtube has always been known to be technically afoul of copyright.

Someone better tell Dennis DeYoung!

[Don]

Where is this info even coming from? You can still watch every Journey tribute band video out there... They haven't been pulled down!

I think it's the youtube links on the individual tribute band websites that need to be removed.

So you agree with this action and think it's a good idea?

I think the real reason for the action may be suspect but that's my own opinion. As far as pulling tribute videos from Youtube itself. I think if they went as far as trying to pull the videos there, the question would arise as how it was not an issue while Neal was scouting singers. If it's a management request because of licensing, then all the live bootlegs videos are in the same boat as they are all unauthorized and don't pay any licensing to Nomota or Sony. Theoretically Steve Perry could even request any video not officially released by Sony or Journey that is on the net with a song he co-penned to be removed. It's a slippery slope but the main issue here, hosting links on your OWN site from outside sources like youtube has always been known to be technically afoul of copyright.

Someone better tell Dennis DeYoung!

A lot of people reach compromises with the labels. I think even here, Rick who had uploaded a clip from the Journey 2001 DVD was offered a deal from Sony that could be rescinded at any time. Even Bryan Adams has been known to make arrangements with uploaders. It's all about what benefits the label and the artist.

[replicaguitar]

"Journey Tribute band -"Separate Ways" / Don't stop Believin'"

This video is unavailable.

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Donahue Gallagher Woods LLP.

It is absolutely true....my tribute band "Separate Ways" from Green Bay Wisconsin had our videos removed by YouTube. They had been up for years...DSB had over 40k plays. Donahue, Gallagher Woods LLP is based out of Oakland Ca. and JOURNEY are listed as one of their clients. I'm not sure what criteria is being used by them.....but i believe it's just a matter of time before all the Tribute band vids are pulled down. Seems like JOURNEY may be going a bit "Eddie Van Halen CRAZY" with this stuff. The tribute bands are harmless and we are really, really huge fans of the band, who just happen to be able to cover these tunes well enough to play a bunch of them. None of us are getting rich from it...we're just having a great-time playing the songs. It's unfortunate that in todays economy, they have enough money that keeping a lawfirm busy by scouting YouTube videos is at the top of their list of priorities. They should use that legal money for something important or donate it to charity...it's absolutely petty...but it is what it is and its not going to change...peace...just wanted to chime in and let you know that it is NOT the label but the band that is having the vids removed...

[Rick]

"Journey Tribute band -"Separate Ways" / Don't stop Believin'"

This video is unavailable.

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Donahue Gallagher Woods LLP.

It is absolutely true....my tribute band "Separate Ways" from Green Bay Wisconsin had our videos removed by YouTube. They had been up for years...DSB had over 40k plays. Donahue, Gallagher Woods LLP is based out of Oakland Ca. and JOURNEY are listed as one of their clients. I'm not sure what criteria is being used by them.....but i believe it's just a matter of time before all the Tribute band vids are pulled down. Seems like JOURNEY may be going a bit "Eddie Van Halen CRAZY" with this stuff. The tribute bands are harmless and we are really, really huge fans of the band, who just happen to be able to cover these tunes well enough to play a bunch of them. None of us are getting rich from it...we're just having a great-time playing the songs. It's unfortunate that in todays economy, they have enough money that keeping a lawfirm busy by scouting YouTube videos is at the top of their list of priorities. They should use that legal money for something important or donate it to charity...it's absolutely petty...but it is what it is and its not going to change...peace...just wanted to chime in and let you know that it is NOT the label but the band that is having the vids removed...

It makes no sense whatsoever. If a person goes out to see some live music, where you guys are playing, likes what they hear and wants to hear more of it, they're going to pick up a Journey album, or several of them. They may even become a big fan and go see one or more of their shows as well. I just can't see how it doesn't help them.

[Rhiannon]

I blame Don Henley.

[Deb]

"Journey Tribute band -"Separate Ways" / Don't stop Believin'"

This video is unavailable.

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Donahue Gallagher Woods LLP.

It is absolutely true....my tribute band "Separate Ways" from Green Bay Wisconsin had our videos removed by YouTube. They had been up for years...DSB had over 40k plays. Donahue, Gallagher Woods LLP is based out of Oakland Ca. and JOURNEY are listed as one of their clients. I'm not sure what criteria is being used by them.....but i believe it's just a matter of time before all the Tribute band vids are pulled down. Seems like JOURNEY may be going a bit "Eddie Van Halen CRAZY" with this stuff. The tribute bands are harmless and we are really, really huge fans of the band, who just happen to be able to cover these tunes well enough to play a bunch of them. None of us are getting rich from it...we're just having a great-time playing the songs. It's unfortunate that in todays economy, they have enough money that keeping a lawfirm busy by scouting YouTube videos is at the top of their list of priorities. They should use that legal money for something important or donate it to charity...it's absolutely petty...but it is what it is and its not going to change...peace...just wanted to chime in and let you know that it is NOT the label but the band that is having the vids removed...

It makes no sense whatsoever. If a person goes out to see some live music, where you guys are playing, likes what they hear and wants to hear more of it, they're going to pick up a Journey album, or several of them. They may even become a big fan and go see one or more of their shows as well. I just can't see how it doesn't help them.

Agreed. WTH? I really like Cali based Journey band DSB and friends that go to the shows put clips on youtube. Only way I'm going to see them unless they happen to have a show scheduled the same weekend I would be down there. Makes no effing sense to me, actually kinda pisses me off. LOL, yet one more reason..........

[Don]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

[Deb]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

NightMare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

[Melissa]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

Nightmare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

I saw that too Deb, I feel awful for her. It is total crap. But I'm apparently a "hater" now so that's why I'll be told I think it's total crap

[Don]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

NightMare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

Bon Jovi went after a girl tribute band and Aerosmith's publishers have gone after everyone in general. Bryan Adams too. It's not that uncommon, it's just a matter of it happening to something that we specifically have an interest in, that's when we finally realize it's going on.

[Saint John]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

NightMare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

Bon Jovi went after a girl tribute band and Aerosmith's publishers have gone after everyone in general. Bryan Adams too. It's not that uncommon, it's just a matter of it happening to something that we specifically have an interest in, that's when we finally realize it's going on.

Seriously, who cares? They're fucking fan videos of bands playing music. Then again, I don't record shows I go to and couldn't be paid any amount of money to do so, so I'm probably a bit biased. I go to the concert to ... see the concert! Watching the show through a camera lens would completely ruin the show for me.

[Deb]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

Nightmare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

I saw that too Deb, I feel awful for her. It is total crap. But I'm apparently a "hater" now so that's why I'll be told I think it's total crap

Lol, count me in too I guess. 3 strikes.........first Perry, then Soto, and now screwing over the little concert goer who shares a clip (lol not even of them but a tribute band yet ). So many other bands/artists have no problem and many have thanked her for her great clips. Many of which will notice a whole lot of their stuff gone now. A band/artist can only dream about having a fan like her. Going after the tribute band is one thing (still find that ridiculous too though) but shutting down a great contributing youtube account like hers from a little music lover concert goer, just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Done.

[Don]

Finally! Time to go home. Fucking SQL.

Ciao.

[Rip Rokken]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

NightMare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

Bon Jovi went after a girl tribute band and Aerosmith's publishers have gone after everyone in general. Bryan Adams too. It's not that uncommon, it's just a matter of it happening to something that we specifically have an interest in, that's when we finally realize it's going on.

Seriously, who cares? They're fucking fan videos of bands playing music. Then again, I don't record shows I go to and couldn't be paid any amount of money to do so, so I'm probably a bit biased. I go to the concert to ... see the concert! Watching the show through a camera lens would completely ruin the show for me.

I've heard the opinion that artists may worry that "bad" performances by tribute bands could hurt appreciation for the material. If that's one of the real concerns, I can kinda understand it... but I still disagree. I've seen enough bad performances by original artists that could hurt the material without outside help.

[slucero]

If the band can't perform their own material LIVE but a tribute band can, and perform it well... then maybe the original band shouldn't complain...

[Melissa]

The problem here is, who would you be upset with? All these songs have multiple copyright holders. Sony Columbia/ Nomota, the Songwriters themselves, and a ton of publishers (Weed High Nightmare Music, Lacey Boulevard Music, Twist and Shout music, Love Batch Music, etc). Any one of them can make the request, it doesn't have to be a unanimous decision.

Nightmare. My friend's youtube account was terminated for having DSB vids. How fucking ridiculous is that?! All, and I mean all of her vids from years and years worth of shows from JSS, Styx, Nelsons, Night Ranger, you name it, tons of other bands/shows. Everything gone. Seriously? Going after little concert goers who share vids? Pretty sure she had over a hundred clips up and a few tribute band clips. First I've ever heard of a band doing this? Why is Journey so paranoid of tribute bands all of a sudden? Has MAJORLY turned me off of Journey in a BIG way.

I saw that too Deb, I feel awful for her. It is total crap. But I'm apparently a "hater" now so that's why I'll be told I think it's total crap

Lol, count me in too I guess. 3 strikes.........first Perry, then Soto, and now screwing over the little concert goer who shares a clip (lol not even of them but a tribute band yet ). So many other bands/artists have no problem and many have thanked her for her great clips. Many of which will notice a whole lot of their stuff gone now. A band/artist can only dream about having a fan like her. Going after the tribute band is one thing (still find that ridiculous too though) but shutting down a great contributing youtube account like hers from a little music lover concert goer, just leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Done.

I'm thinking maybe it's a real fear of the average Joe not being able to tell the difference between the tribute and the real thing

[Saint John]

I think youtube's motto is "Youtube ... broadcast yourself." That seems pretty self-explanatory to me. Deb, if you're talking about Cindi, that "Renegade" chick, yeah, that really sucks for her. She had a boatload of great shit and that's a shame. Personally, I think artists should get with the fucking times and record every show and have it available as a legal bootleg. At the very least, a few shows.

But I think you're blaming the wrong people here. If tribute bands want their material to make onto youtube, they need to make sure they have the legal authority to do so. And fans that record these live shows themselves need to save the recordings on another format.

[Don]

There is a site with the complete 2009 tour done with youtube clips. I wonder if that will take a hit?

[kgdjpubs]

I've heard the opinion that artists may worry that "bad" performances by tribute bands could hurt appreciation for the material. If that's one of the real concerns, I can kinda understand it... but I still disagree. I've seen enough bad performances by original artists that could hurt the material without outside help.

I may be (read: I am) very apathetic towards tribute bands, but there is no way in the world I would ever base my opinion on going to a live show over how a tribute band performs the song.

[kgdjpubs]

Personally, I think artists should get with the fucking times and record every show and have it available as a legal bootleg. At the very least, a few shows.

agree 100%, and I'm amazed more artists don't do this. Every show I've seen that has recordings for sale usually has a pretty decent line to pick them up after the show. If you sell 500 recordings at $20 a piece, that's $10,000/show. Take that over 50 shows on a tour, and there is some serious money in this, even after deducting the cost of materials--which would be very cheap in bulk.

But I think you're blaming the wrong people here. If tribute bands want their material to make onto youtube, they need to make sure they have the legal authority to do so. And fans that record these live shows themselves need to save the recordings on another format.

I think the cat is long past out of the bag here. If they aren't uploaded on youtube, they will be posted somewhere else. Way too much being recorded and posted online to keep any kind of control over it.

[Saint John]

Personally, I think artists should get with the fucking times and record every show and have it available as a legal bootleg. At the very least, a few shows.

agree 100%, and I'm amazed more artists don't do this. Every show I've seen that has recordings for sale usually has a pretty decent line to pick them up after the show. If you sell 500 recordings at $20 a piece, that's $10,000/show. Take that over 50 shows on a tour, and there is some serious money in this, even after deducting the cost of materials--which would be very cheap in bulk.

And talk about sending traffic to your website! Simply announce this during the show, and before and after the show display on the jumbotron screen: "Tonight's show will be recorded and available for sale at journeymusic.com. There will also be pictures from the show posted. Thank you for your continued support."

[Don]

Personally, I think artists should get with the fucking times and record every show and have it available as a legal bootleg. At the very least, a few shows.

agree 100%, and I'm amazed more artists don't do this. Every show I've seen that has recordings for sale usually has a pretty decent line to pick them up after the show. If you sell 500 recordings at $20 a piece, that's $10,000/show. Take that over 50 shows on a tour, and there is some serious money in this, even after deducting the cost of materials--which would be very cheap in bulk.

And talk about sending traffic to your website! Simply announce this during the show, and before and after the show display on the jumbotron screen: "Tonight's show will be recorded and available for sale at journeymusic.com. There will also be pictures from the show posted. Thank you for your continued support."

The problem here is royalties. Once you start selling shows, there has to be accounting done for every single show just like a CD/DVD sale. If the setlist changes, that might mean different royalties going out for different writers. If your material isn't self contained, meaning a lot of the material has been contributed or co-created by people not in the band, accounting has to handle all of the issues making sure those people are getting paid or you'll get slapped with a sales injunction. Just a pain in the ass for bands like journey and Styx who have ex-members with credits all over their setlist.

[Saint John]

Great point, Don.

[Don]

Talking about selling items through Journey's website, I'd like to make another point. Journey has one of the most dysfunctional websites out there. Arnel's own fansite is run better than that place. Even Journey's facebook scheme is horrendous as there are multiple pages out there competing against the official one. The band really needs to revamp their entire online presence.

[Don]

Talking about selling items through Journey's website, I'd like to make another point. Journey has one of the most dysfunctional websites out there. Arnel's own fansite is run better than that place. Even Journey's facebook scheme is horrendous as there are multiple pages out there competing against the official one. The band really needs to revamp their entire online presence.

Foreigner's site seems to use the same platform but looks like it is laid out much better, especially the color scheme compared to that gaudy color palette Journey used. Foreigner even have a link to their own Youtube channel.

http://www.foreigneronline.com/index.php

http://www.youtube.com/user/FWebTeam

[slucero]

nah... if they were gonna they would have done that last year... since this is the last album there's no need...

[kgdjpubs]

Personally, I think artists should get with the fucking times and record every show and have it available as a legal bootleg. At the very least, a few shows.

agree 100%, and I'm amazed more artists don't do this. Every show I've seen that has recordings for sale usually has a pretty decent line to pick them up after the show. If you sell 500 recordings at $20 a piece, that's $10,000/show. Take that over 50 shows on a tour, and there is some serious money in this, even after deducting the cost of materials--which would be very cheap in bulk.

And talk about sending traffic to your website! Simply announce this during the show, and before and after the show display on the jumbotron screen: "Tonight's show will be recorded and available for sale at journeymusic.com. There will also be pictures from the show posted. Thank you for your continued support."

The problem here is royalties. Once you start selling shows, there has to be accounting done for every single show just like a CD/DVD sale. If the setlist changes, that might mean different royalties going out for different writers. If your material isn't self contained, meaning a lot of the material has been contributed or co-created by people not in the band, accounting has to handle all of the issues making sure those people are getting paid or you'll get slapped with a sales injunction. Just a pain in the ass for bands like journey and Styx who have ex-members with credits all over their setlist.

Maybe, but it has been done before my multiple bands. I've seen both cds and mp3 devices, including one solo act who has done a bunch of co-writing over the years with various people who are no longer part of the band (and in some cases, never were part of the band). Don't know how they handle it, but it's been done.

[Don]

Personally, I think artists should get with the fucking times and record every show and have it available as a legal bootleg. At the very least, a few shows.

agree 100%, and I'm amazed more artists don't do this. Every show I've seen that has recordings for sale usually has a pretty decent line to pick them up after the show. If you sell 500 recordings at $20 a piece, that's $10,000/show. Take that over 50 shows on a tour, and there is some serious money in this, even after deducting the cost of materials--which would be very cheap in bulk.

And talk about sending traffic to your website! Simply announce this during the show, and before and after the show display on the jumbotron screen: "Tonight's show will be recorded and available for sale at journeymusic.com. There will also be pictures from the show posted. Thank you for your continued support."

The problem here is royalties. Once you start selling shows, there has to be accounting done for every single show just like a CD/DVD sale. If the setlist changes, that might mean different royalties going out for different writers. If your material isn't self contained, meaning a lot of the material has been contributed or co-created by people not in the band, accounting has to handle all of the issues making sure those people are getting paid or you'll get slapped with a sales injunction. Just a pain in the ass for bands like journey and Styx who have ex-members with credits all over their setlist.

Maybe, but it has been done before my multiple bands. I've seen both cds and mp3 devices, including one solo act who has done a bunch of co-writing over the years with various people who are no longer part of the band (and in some cases, never were part of the band). Don't know how they handle it, but it's been done.

Sure, it can be done. and I'm sure Steve Perry would definitely be on board as it will easy money for him. Journey isn't under a big corporation like SONY though who has resources to handle the books, and with the acrimony with former band members, the numbers better be right.

[Deb]

SJ, they're saved, just not out there to share with fans anymore.