Dow plunges 512 points

[ebake02]

If you think about it, China is basically giving us our money back.

[ebake02]

Futures are at -274 now, I wonder how before we see -300. Should definitely be an interesting day tomorrow.

[slucero]

I find it kind of funny that China was the first to slam the US after the downgrade. If this downgrade drags down our economy then they will loose just as much as we will. Most of what we buy is made in Chinese factories so if we stop buying, they loose money.

China's desperately trying to slow their economy down... trying to fend off inflation... slamming the US is perfectly in line with that tactic.

China has Trillions in cash... they can engineer a "soft landing"... the US cannot...

[ebake02]

I find it kind of funny that China was the first to slam the US after the downgrade. If this downgrade drags down our economy then they will loose just as much as we will. Most of what we buy is made in Chinese factories so if we stop buying, they loose money.

China's desperately trying to slow their economy down... trying to fend off inflation... slamming the US is perfectly in line with that tactic.

China has Trillions in cash... they can engineer a "soft landing"... the US cannot...

They have to be careful what they wish for, being their biggest buyer, if we stop buying enough we could slow down their economy a lot more than they want.

[ebake02]

The Dow is down 176 is the first 5 minutes of trading.

[S2M]

I've ALWAYS said this country would never be defeated by conventional, or nuclear weaponry....I've been saying it'll be financially since the early 90s. Other countries owning real estate here, and foreigners owning movie studios....this country has subcontracted and leased it's soul to the hilt...and I knew it was going to be China - even back then.....

[ebake02]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

[Saint John]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

Excuse me but it was the Tea Party Budget of Paul Ryan that Moodys said would do the job to keep the credit rating at AAA. I know I'm gonna hear about all the shit that Obama inherited from Bush, but keep in mind, Obama inherited a AAA Credit Rating from Bush. Rating agencies wanted 4 Trillion in cuts to spending and it was the Dems who wouldn't give up their sacred cow programs.


Down 340 as I type, and Gold up $52..

Spot on. The cuts weren't nearly deep enough. It's like having a max'd out credit card at 20k, having your limit increased to 22k and still spending money on stuff you don't need every month. Unemployment for 99 weeks? What kind of loser can't find a fucking job in 99 weeks?!?! The problem is that people feel entitled. If I lost my job today I would have a job within 2 weeks. But I'd start at the bottom and apply at fast food places, grocery stores, good cash paying places like Applebee's and Chili's and work my way up the job ladder until I found the job and pay I wanted. Most people just want to collect unemployment and wait till a job with a very similar salary accepts them. Fuck that. Work 2 jobs to realize that income or lose all of your shit and die. 6 months is more than adequate. Not one fucking day more, though.

And fuck social programs. Take care of veterans, the handicapped and retards, and allocate money for arrest-free, drug-free and, most importantly, child-free teens and young adults. Reward the responsible people in society with excellent job training. Too much to type, but the Tea Party in this country represents responsible, middle class America that has not failed the country. They're working, land and home owning folks that want their tax dollars going toward bridges, roads, police and fireman ... not Julio and Guadalupe's 8 fucking kids or J'Amiqua's 5 kids with 4 different fathers, 3 of whom are in jail. People are tired of this shit. The demonization of "the wealthy." Listen, motherfuckers, someone making 10, 20 or 30 million dollars a year is not wealthy or rich. They're simply someone making ... 10, 20 or 30 million per year! That's none of your fucking business and there should be a blind tax code that simply taxes everyone's dollars equally.

Here's the deal. Take care of yourself. Educate yourself, work hard and save. Take care of, love and teach your children. Be positive and plan for their future(s). Take care of your family and loved ones. So, so simple.

[ebake02]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

Excuse me but it was the Tea Party Budget of Paul Ryan that Moodys said would do the job to keep the credit rating at AAA. I know I'm gonna hear about all the shit that Obama inherited from Bush, but keep in mind, Obama inherited a AAA Credit Rating from Bush. Rating agencies wanted 4 Trillion in cuts to spending and it was the Dems who wouldn't give up their sacred cow programs.


Down 340 as I type, and Gold up $52..

But it was the Republicans who refused to give in and allow a measure to increase revenue. You can't fix this mess we're in on budget cuts alone. There are plenty of ways to increase revenue without increasing taxes, tax loopholes for big oil come to mind but unfortunately big oil are keeping those republicans in office.....

[Seven Wishes2]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

Excuse me but it was the Tea Party Budget of Paul Ryan that Moodys said would do the job to keep the credit rating at AAA. I know I'm gonna hear about all the shit that Obama inherited from Bush, but keep in mind, Obama inherited a AAA Credit Rating from Bush. Rating agencies wanted 4 Trillion in cuts to spending and it was the Dems who wouldn't give up their sacred cow programs.


Down 340 as I type, and Gold up $52..

A complete and total lie, LieFinder. All 3 agencies have already explicitly stated that without revenue increases (i.e. ending the Bush tax cuts and modifying corporate tax codes, which would net $800 billion PER YEAR), the plan didn't go far enough. What needed to happen was, as I've stated, some modest changes to "entitlement" programs and the immediate ending of the Bush tax cuts. So don't even think about trying to pin this on the left...nor just on the Tea Baggers, either.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

Ever since Herbert Hoover proposed massive spending to combat the effects of the panic following the October 1929 stock market crash every single president and congress has been made up of middle of the road moderates who their part in ramping up up the debt and engaging in reckless spending. We had gone past the point of no return long long long time before any "tea party" representative set food in Washington.

This is actually the fault of the "middle" moderates who believed the grown up , enlightened way of managing an economy is through having a big government.

[ebake02]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

Excuse me but it was the Tea Party Budget of Paul Ryan that Moodys said would do the job to keep the credit rating at AAA. I know I'm gonna hear about all the shit that Obama inherited from Bush, but keep in mind, Obama inherited a AAA Credit Rating from Bush. Rating agencies wanted 4 Trillion in cuts to spending and it was the Dems who wouldn't give up their sacred cow programs.


Down 340 as I type, and Gold up $52..

A complete and total lie, LieFinder. All 3 agencies have already explicitly stated that without revenue increases (i.e. ending the Bush tax cuts and modifying corporate tax codes, which would net $800 billion PER YEAR), the plan didn't go far enough. What needed to happen was, as I've stated, some modest changes to "entitlement" programs and the immediate ending of the Bush tax cuts. So don't even think about trying to pin this on the left...nor just on the Tea Baggers, either.

I like idea of a penny tax, add .01 to every transaction in the country and I mean everything, store sales, utility bills, loan payments, etc... It's small enough that no one would notice a difference and if you think about all the transactions that take place in the country on a daily basis, that's a truck load of money the government would be bringing in.

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Blame for this this debt fiasco and the downgrade fall squarely on the shoulders of tea party republicans and far left democrats. They were willing to let this country go into default to get their own way, it's sick. The middle who want to compromise for the greater good have no voice in Washington anymore and I'm tired of it.

Excuse me but it was the Tea Party Budget of Paul Ryan that Moodys said would do the job to keep the credit rating at AAA. I know I'm gonna hear about all the shit that Obama inherited from Bush, but keep in mind, Obama inherited a AAA Credit Rating from Bush. Rating agencies wanted 4 Trillion in cuts to spending and it was the Dems who wouldn't give up their sacred cow programs.


Down 340 as I type, and Gold up $52..

A complete and total lie, LieFinder. All 3 agencies have already explicitly stated that without revenue increases (i.e. ending the Bush tax cuts and modifying corporate tax codes, which would net $800 billion PER YEAR), the plan didn't go far enough. What needed to happen was, as I've stated, some modest changes to "entitlement" programs and the immediate ending of the Bush tax cuts. So don't even think about trying to pin this on the left...nor just on the Tea Baggers, either.

I like idea of a penny tax, add .01 to every transaction in the country and I mean everything, store sales, utility bills, loan payments, etc... It's small enough that no one would notice a difference and if you think about all the transactions that take place in the country on a daily basis, that's a truck load of money the government would be bringing in.

problem is a one penny tax wouldn't be missed., but what happens if it grew to a 22 percent charge on every dollar of sale and you STILL had to pay income tax and social security tax on that. Thats what happens in Europe, you pay an income tax, the equivalent of social security tax , local/property tax and then you have to pay a 20% sales tax on value added goods (damn near everything) You would have to see that one penny tax increased by a penny every year. !

[S2M]

Do some research, Matt....there will never be a VAT in this country. Do some research on the FairTax...you'll better understand. H.R. 25 will solve the financial issues, plus expand the tax base - to include non-taxed(currently) illegals....23% national sales tax would take the place of EVERY single tax currently on the board: income, payroll, death, property, inheritance, compliance - every tax. Add that to an amendment to repeal the 16th, and you have your solution.....everyone is clamoring for everyone to pay the same amount...well there you go....you quit taxing income, and start taxing consumption. Even the pricks like Dan and LieLover can't find fault in that proposal....

[Gin and Tonic Sky]

Do some research, Matt....there will never be a VAT in this country. Do some research on the FairTax...you'll better understand. H.R. 25 will solve the financial issues, plus expand the tax base - to include non-taxed(currently) illegals....23% national sales tax would take the place of EVERY single tax currently on the board: income, payroll, death, property, inheritance, compliance - every tax. Add that to an amendment to repeal the 16th, and you have your solution.....everyone is clamoring for everyone to pay the same amount...well there you go....you quit taxing income, and start taxing consumption. Even the pricks like Dan and LieLover can't find fault in that proposal....

Did I say that I opposed the fair tax ever? No I didn't. As long as the national sales tax (fair tax) of 23 percent REPLACED the income tax, I would be right on board with it.
As someone who believes income tax is theft and a disincentive, Im all for that.
What I was pointing out is the immense danger of sticking any kind of sales or VAT tax (however small) in place WITHOUT abolishing the income tax. And believe me there are some who would love to have it .


If you dont think that there are Fucktards out there who wouild like to slap on a VAT on top of income tax in the US read this piece of crap op-ed from the brookings institute
http://www.brookings.edu/articles/2011/ ... arris.aspx

[Saint John]

Do some research, Matt....there will never be a VAT in this country. Do some research on the FairTax...you'll better understand. H.R. 25 will solve the financial issues, plus expand the tax base - to include non-taxed(currently) illegals....23% national sales tax would take the place of EVERY single tax currently on the board: income, payroll, death, property, inheritance, compliance - every tax. Add that to an amendment to repeal the 16th, and you have your solution.....everyone is clamoring for everyone to pay the same amount...well there you go....you quit taxing income, and start taxing consumption. Even the pricks like Dan and LieLover can't find fault in that proposal....

I'm in.

[Seven Wishes2]

Moody's had revised The US to a "positive outlook" a few months back during the Ryan budget discussions and House vote, which passed the House but the Senate left for dead. Just last night I watched CNBC for 3 hours when the futures market opened and at least 3 people on that show were saying exactly what I just typed above. I think Trump was one of them, he was fucking lambasting DC all around. We don't have a tax problem 7, it's a spending problem and everyone knows it except you. To be fair, Trump did say he'd tighten up those corporate tax loopholes even though he throughly enjoys using them himself.

It's a spending AND revenues issue and if you don't realize that you're in a massive and disillusioned minority.

[Seven Wishes2]

Are you THAT stupid? Payroll tax exemptions help the middle class - without which we'll all be selling apples on street corners.

NOTHING in that statement has ANYTHING to do with ending the colossal failure that was the Bush tax cuts - the main reason we're in this mess.

Damn, you're stupid.

[ebake02]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

[Saint John]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

This downgrade has nothing to do with revenue. It's all about spending more than comes in. Period. Also, there really wasn't a downgrade. The protocol for the last 80 or so years has been to take the highest of the 3 credit agency's ratings, and two still have the U.S. at AAA. This is a combination of panic selling and a complete rejection of the president's move toward Marxism/Socialism. There is nothing in the U. S. Constitution that authorizes Congress to take money from some people and give it it other people, as being done with welfare and the new approach to government operated healthcare. People simply don't want this shit.

Personally, I think we should vote, individually, exactly where the percentage of tax dollars above the budget go (if we could ever get to that point). They could either go to deficit reduction or to welfare. Mine would go to welfare. Charity should be always be voluntary. But that does not include veterans, the handicapped or retards.

[Memorex]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

As is -634, the current mark. Crazy.

[ebake02]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

This downgrade has nothing to do with revenue. It's all about spending more than comes in. Period. Also, there really wasn't a downgrade. The protocol for the last 80 or so years has been to take the highest of the 3 credit agency's ratings, and two still have the U.S. at AAA. This is a combination of panic selling and a complete rejection of the president's move toward Marxism/Socialism. There is nothing in the U. S. Constitution that authorizes Congress to take money from some people and give it it other people, as being done with welfare and the new approach to government operated healthcare. People simply don't want this shit.

Personally, I think we should vote, individually, exactly where the percentage of tax dollars above the budget go (if we could ever get to that point). They could either go to deficit reduction or to welfare. Mine would go to welfare. Charity should be always be voluntary. But that does not include veterans, the handicapped or retards.

Are you serious?

[Saint John]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

This downgrade has nothing to do with revenue. It's all about spending more than comes in. Period. Also, there really wasn't a downgrade. The protocol for the last 80 or so years has been to take the highest of the 3 credit agency's ratings, and two still have the U.S. at AAA. This is a combination of panic selling and a complete rejection of the president's move toward Marxism/Socialism. There is nothing in the U. S. Constitution that authorizes Congress to take money from some people and give it it other people, as being done with welfare and the new approach to government operated healthcare. People simply don't want this shit.

Personally, I think we should vote, individually, exactly where the percentage of tax dollars above the budget go (if we could ever get to that point). They could either go to deficit reduction or to welfare. Mine would go to welfare. Charity should be always be voluntary. But that does not include veterans, the handicapped or retards.

Are you serious?

Laugh it up, funny boy. But The Treasury Department has the third largest expense in the federal budget. Only Defense and income redistribution (The Departments of Health and Human Services, HUD, and Agriculture (food stamps) is higher. As the debt increases, so does the interest payment. Social spending is the largest item in our federal budget.

[ebake02]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

This downgrade has nothing to do with revenue. It's all about spending more than comes in. Period. Also, there really wasn't a downgrade. The protocol for the last 80 or so years has been to take the highest of the 3 credit agency's ratings, and two still have the U.S. at AAA. This is a combination of panic selling and a complete rejection of the president's move toward Marxism/Socialism. There is nothing in the U. S. Constitution that authorizes Congress to take money from some people and give it it other people, as being done with welfare and the new approach to government operated healthcare. People simply don't want this shit.

Personally, I think we should vote, individually, exactly where the percentage of tax dollars above the budget go (if we could ever get to that point). They could either go to deficit reduction or to welfare. Mine would go to welfare. Charity should be always be voluntary. But that does not include veterans, the handicapped or retards.

Are you serious?

Laugh it up, funny boy. But The Treasury Department has the third largest expense in the federal budget. Only Defense and income redistribution (The Departments of Health and Human Services, HUD, and Agriculture (food stamps) is higher. As the debt increases, so does the interest payment. Social spending is the largest item in our federal budget.

Is that what Fox News told you?

[Saint John]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

This downgrade has nothing to do with revenue. It's all about spending more than comes in. Period. Also, there really wasn't a downgrade. The protocol for the last 80 or so years has been to take the highest of the 3 credit agency's ratings, and two still have the U.S. at AAA. This is a combination of panic selling and a complete rejection of the president's move toward Marxism/Socialism. There is nothing in the U. S. Constitution that authorizes Congress to take money from some people and give it it other people, as being done with welfare and the new approach to government operated healthcare. People simply don't want this shit.

Personally, I think we should vote, individually, exactly where the percentage of tax dollars above the budget go (if we could ever get to that point). They could either go to deficit reduction or to welfare. Mine would go to welfare. Charity should be always be voluntary. But that does not include veterans, the handicapped or retards.

Are you serious?

Laugh it up, funny boy. But The Treasury Department has the third largest expense in the federal budget. Only Defense and income redistribution (The Departments of Health and Human Services, HUD, and Agriculture (food stamps) is higher. As the debt increases, so does the interest payment. Social spending is the largest item in our federal budget.

Is that what Fox News told you?

Nope. Those are facts, pal.

[ebake02]

I still think this downgrade is being blown way out of proportion, -465 points is a little ridiculous if you ask me.

This downgrade has nothing to do with revenue. It's all about spending more than comes in. Period. Also, there really wasn't a downgrade. The protocol for the last 80 or so years has been to take the highest of the 3 credit agency's ratings, and two still have the U.S. at AAA. This is a combination of panic selling and a complete rejection of the president's move toward Marxism/Socialism. There is nothing in the U. S. Constitution that authorizes Congress to take money from some people and give it it other people, as being done with welfare and the new approach to government operated healthcare. People simply don't want this shit.

Personally, I think we should vote, individually, exactly where the percentage of tax dollars above the budget go (if we could ever get to that point). They could either go to deficit reduction or to welfare. Mine would go to welfare. Charity should be always be voluntary. But that does not include veterans, the handicapped or retards.

Are you serious?

Laugh it up, funny boy. But The Treasury Department has the third largest expense in the federal budget. Only Defense and income redistribution (The Departments of Health and Human Services, HUD, and Agriculture (food stamps) is higher. As the debt increases, so does the interest payment. Social spending is the largest item in our federal budget.

Is that what Fox News told you?

Nope. Those are faux, pal.

There, fixed it for you.

[RedWingFan]

Payroll tax exemptions help the middle class

I love how you use the term "Corporate tax loopholes" repeatedly.
Then come right back with "Payroll tax exemptions" for the middle class.
Like the loopholes are mistakes in the tax code or something.
They're all the same thing. You've been trained by the Marxists well.

Are you saying "Corporate tax exemptions" don't help corporations? They don't need to grow their business and hire more people?

[brandonx76]

I saw this on a bumber sticker the other day...I liked it

[slucero]

The S&P revised downgrade has 2 scenarios for Debt/GDP: http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings ... 5316529563


Upside - Incorporates $950 billion of new revenues on the assumption that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating.

• 74% by the end of 2011
• 77% in 2015
• 78% by 2021.

Downside - Features less-favorable macroeconomic assumptions, and also assumes that the second round of spending cuts (at least $1.2 trillion) that the act calls for does not occur. This scenario also assumes somewhat higher nominal interest rates for U.S. Treasuries. We still believe that the role of the U.S. dollar as the key reserve currency confers a government funding advantage, one that could change only slowly over time, and that Fed policy might lean toward continued loose monetary policy at a time of fiscal tightening. Nonetheless, it is possible that interest rates could rise if investors re-price relative risks. As a result, our alternate scenario factors in a 50 basis point (bp)-75 bp rise in 10-year bond yields relative to the base and upside cases from 2013 onwards.

• 74% in 2011
• 90% in 2015
• 101% by 2021

[Seven Wishes2]

Payroll tax exemptions help the middle class

I love how you use the term "Corporate tax loopholes" repeatedly.
Then come right back with "Payroll tax exemptions" for the middle class.
Like the loopholes are mistakes in the tax code or something.
They're all the same thing. You've been trained by the Marxists well.

Are you saying "Corporate tax exemptions" don't help corporations? They don't need to grow their business and hire more people?

Idiot. Without a middle class, no one is left to buy any commodoties, goods, or services, and the mega-rich corportations cease to exist.

In the state we're in right now, money in the hands of the middle class is the only solution. These loopholes were put in place OUTSIDE the tax code by GOP stalwarts, and have done nothing but hurt us economically.

You are one logically impaired dude.