Multiple Vocals and Negative Reviews

[jrnyman28]

Hey, if it's catchy then it's got "commerical possibilities".
I would be cool if they pushed a Deen track.

It would be great to hear any track on the radio. But I want Steve to be heard on the radio. I STILL believe that he needs to be the focus, frontman, face, voice of Journey. Once he has been commercially accepted, THEN Journey could release a Deen song.

"Every Generation" is a car commercial waiting to happen. I have already attempted to get that in the works.

[JourneyTroll]

Hey, if it's catchy then it's got "commerical possibilities".
I would be cool if they pushed a Deen track.

It would be great to hear any track on the radio. But I want Steve to be heard on the radio. I STILL believe that he needs to be the focus, frontman, face, voice of Journey. Once he has been commercially accepted, THEN Journey could release a Deen song.

"Every Generation" is a car commercial waiting to happen. I have already attempted to get that in the works.

Dave, do you think if Journey had a concert where the first set was all hits, then an intermission, and the second half all material never played before in concert that all Journey fans would be happy? This way, if anyone wanted to leave after hearing only the hits they could, and everyone else could move down to the best seats for an intimate concert.

Just an idea.

Journeytroll

[jrnyman28]

Well, no one wants to see that many people leave the venue. And I think it is better for everyone to end on a high note! I think the band could have promoted the tour better, letting people know that there were two sets and that the first one was material not heard since 1978. it is better to have more peole show up later, than to have a lot of people leave.

[yak]

Nobody here is arguing that Neal and Ross are great singers, giving each member a song was quirky, offbeat and different.

And I am quite sorry that this is what Journey "evolved" (a favorite word here?) to. Not my idea of Journey! What really worked for Journey seems to be sadly dismissed...gone..............

I don't get it.

What I see here is a productive exchange of ideas and views from the Journey fans here, which makes for continuous dialogue among the participants, and results in an interesting board to read (I'm pretty sure Andrew would agree here). I think perryfaithful, you either misinterpret things as you go about reading them, OR you just pounce on anything and everything you think is an opportunity to discredit this band.

Your version of Journey has cascaded into the sunset a long, long, time ago, and apparently likes getting a sunburn. Why can't you just accept that Journey has moved on?

[heardonthestreet]

Awwwwwww shucks, yak! Classic Journey has hardly faded off into the sunset. It's what people want and love. It's just that there are two different Journey bands . The past and the present and they both have a fanbase. How nice that we all have the music that makes us happy.

[Fernando Ramirez]

I think it's great that they have so many folks singing. It doesn't bother me one bit, and I ain't even heard any of it yet. You still get, what, 8 Augeri sung songs? Some old albums (like a lot of AC/DC albums) only have 8 tracks, for example. So those of you who don't like the idea of multiple vocalists can just "skip" to the Augeri tracks, and pretend that those 8 tracks ARE the album. Then you get 6 more bonus tracks!

If they want to do something different, more powere to them. If all Journey did was write with a damn marketing plan in mind, we probably wouldn't like the music. Journey has always been about writing great music that the band likes first. Except for ROR, to a certain extent.

The number of tracks is something I haven't heard a lot of folks praise. I think it's so frickin' great that they have put so many tracks on their recent albums. The last album had 14 tracks... that's some great value for the money in my opinion.

[jrnyman28]

The number of tracks is something I haven't heard a lot of folks praise. I think it's so frickin' great that they have put so many tracks on their recent albums. The last album had 14 tracks... that's some great value for the money in my opinion.

Well, to be honest, I think Arrival AND TBF suffered from having so many tracks. Great for a fan, but the flow of those CDs was hindered by it. Both had some songs that could/should have been left off. And THEN the CDs would have been MUCH better. Still good, especially for the fans.

[Fernando Ramirez]

Well, to be honest, I think Arrival AND TBF suffered from having so many tracks. Great for a fan, but the flow of those CDs was hindered by it. Both had some songs that could/should have been left off. And THEN the CDs would have been MUCH better. Still good, especially for the fans.

I just don't see that. I've never understood how people can say less tracks is better. Better for who? As a fan, I want more songs from JOURNEY. Plus more songs is more bang for the buck. If you don't like the flow, then make your own CD and flow it the way you want. You have the power to take tracks out... just don't take my tracks away.

But in all fairness to you... I've been listening a lot to ARRIVAL in the last 3 days, I would agree it needs more rockers on it. It has a hell of a lot of slow tempo songs on it. I would have been cool to have more rocking songs on it like the first track. If I look at it from that perspective... rockers vs. slow songs.. then yeah, some more rocking songs would have helped it flow better. If I'm driving around with some friends, I want to keep the uptempo songs on... don't want to suddenly hit a ballad when everybody's wound up, you know?

[Guest]

I think Monker brings up some good ideas, actually. I haven't heard Generations yet, but if it's true that Ross and Neal lack singing aptitude, then why force their vocal appearance on the album? Why not leave the vocals to the warblers who have proven ability? Every member should be utilized to his strengths, not weaknesses. A science teacher shouldn't be forced to teach history unless that teacher has tried and tested skill in that domain; why should a great guitarist sing on an album if his crooning capability is not up to par with his fancy fretboarding? Just because he can - because he's Neal Schon the Invincible?

Journey has always tried to push their boundaries, it seems, and that's a good survival tactic. But sometimes it's wiser to KNOW your limits, and travel within them - and transgress them ONLY when such an act makes artistic sense. It's artistically illogical for people who can't sing to sing on an album.

If Deen can sing, great; then it's an artistically sound decision to allow him to croon some tunes. But having non-singers dip their toes in the vocal waters just because it's "different" is artistically silly - and can even be suicidal.

[The_Noble_Cause]

But sometimes it's wiser to KNOW your limits, and travel within them - and transgress them ONLY when such an act makes artistic sense. It's artistically illogical for people who can't sing to sing on an album.

If Deen can sing, great; then it's an artistically sound decision to allow him to croon some tunes. But having non-singers dip their toes in the vocal waters just because it's "different" is artistically silly - and can even be suicidal.

Nicely put, I agree.

[jrnyman28]

Good post soledad.
BUT, Neal and Ross CAN sing. There is just nothing special about there voice. They are not out of tune on the songs. AND Ross' voice fits the style of the song he is singing on. The whole song sounds a little out of place BECAUSE of his voice, but it fits the song. Neal is an adequate vocalist. He only sings when he feels it fits, or when he "has to" (like his solo CD "Late Nite"). It works, but it nothing special.

[Guest]

But that's just it: Their voices are just "adequate," at least according to you and other posters. If that's the case, then that explanation alone is exactly why they should NOT be singing. They sing in tune: fine. But just being able to sing in tune is not good enough if you want people to gain enjoyment from your artistic efforts. There are many shit artists (famous ones!) who are able to "sing in tune," but their voices are gratingly bad stylistically. A good singer is one who can both carry a tune AND display an interesting, unique style. Technical integrity blended with stylistic prowess: That is what makes good music, IMO.

Neal is technically and stylistically brilliant on the guitar. Why should he ever be forced to sing a song if his voice is "nothing special"?

The problem with so much popular music (I'm talking mainstream and alternative here) seems to be the VOCALS. The band could have good techncial and stylistic skills, but the vocals are crap, marring the overall sound.

[jrnyman28]

There are also many artists who sing adequately but have acheived great things through their art. Rod Stewart, Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen to name a few. They all have questionable voacls but are still loved and admired. Ross' voice is so suited to the song he sang, so it makes sense. I now wonder why he did not handle the vocals on Piranah Blues...I had a hard time getting used to the vocalist they DID use.

Just because it is different than the norm (what we're used to) does not mean it is bad...and it does not mean it is bad for the song. Gregg Rolie's voice is also nothing special...but it has a quality all it's own that I miss. Jon's voice is actually quite close to Gregg's, that is why it sounds fine on Gregg's parts. AND why it sounds fine on "Every Generation"...there is still a comfort there.

The vocals work on their songs. The songs just don't sound like what we are used to on a Journey CD. The songs, therefore, feel out of place. But they are not really...because they ARE Journey.

I agree that Steve could have easily sung Deen's songs. I also think he would have sounded great on Jon's song. But I don't hear his voice on Neal's or Ross' song. So what they did works for me.

[Andrew]

Here is a possibly controversial idea/post/thought.

Perry was for many years the main driving force in the band and 'in control' according to just about everybody.

Now that he has gone - in my observations - Neal and Jon are both powerful personalities and Ross also seems to be voicing his opinion and getting amongst things with new personal management and wesbite releases etc.

The question - could there now be too many cheifs and not enough indians?

[Jeremey]

Andrew,

I wondered that myself. I also wonder if Steve Augeri's incredibly gracious personality, who by all accounts is pretty much a saint, may result in him getting walked on in some of the decision making process. I don't know anything about him aside from what I've read, but I'm not saying the guy's a door mat. Just that maybe he may not be as assertive, which others in the band may see as a reason to step up and push their agendas even more.

Also, I think Herbie played an even bigger part as far as being "in control" than Perry did. The band eventually gave control to Perry, but I think Herbie was always the de facto business manager, and was ultimately able to appeal to the band to do the right thing.

[heardonthestreet]

The control and demand for perfection was what made the band so tight and the means were necessary for the end result, imo. Jon stated that he didn't sing on the albums, because Perry wouldn't have it. He tried it and it was less than good. It had nothing to do with what Perry wanted. If Jon were a great vocalist it would have been different as in Styx. At least they had other very good vocalists making hits for Styx. Perry left nothing to be desired as journey's frontman so it made sense to keep giving the people what they desired.
This jumping back and forth with Deen and Augeri and now making it a free for all, may be fun for the guys, but it smacks of lack of focus.
At the risk of repeating myself, they should have found someone as good as, or better than Perry. Many Journey fans feel that this can't be done. Their love of Journey was too wrapped up and tied with Perry's voice.
Maybe they ought to try to talk him into managing them.

[NealIsGod]

At the risk of repeating myself, they should have found someone as good as, or better than Perry. Many Journey fans feel that this can't be done. Their love of Journey was too wrapped up and tied with Perry's voice.
Maybe they ought to try to talk him into managing them.

I am sure he is not interested or qualified. He almost destroyed the band while they waited around for him.

[Red13JoePa]

You're right, NIG "Almost." Thank God Neal and Jon kept Journey together, though, and started putting out rock albums and touring every summer and fall.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Jon stated that he didn't sing on the albums, because Perry wouldn't have it. He tried it and it was less than good. It had nothing to do with what Perry wanted.

You can't unequivocally say that.
Jon says he wasn't allowed to sing because Perry forbid it.
He re-affirmed this in a recent interview which I posted somewhere in the STYX forum weeks ago.

True, his voice is nothing special, but then again, neither was Greggs and most musical devotees will tell you that those days of shared vocals (with both Gregg and Steve singing) was the band at it's peak.

[heardonthestreet]

None of the above three posts are even to be given consideration, imo,as Journey and Santana's histories will declare them null and void.

[yak]

At the risk of repeating myself, they should have found someone as good as, or better than Perry. Many Journey fans feel that this can't be done. Their love of Journey was too wrapped up and tied with Perry's voice.
Maybe they ought to try to talk him into managing them.

Surely you jest?

Thanks, Hottsdie, for my laugh of the day!

As for repeating yourself, YOU my dear, are the broken record of all time.

Go steam up somebody's car window, and leave us alone!

[PROPERRY]

At the risk of repeating myself, they should have found someone as good as, or better than Perry. Many Journey fans feel that this can't be done. Their love of Journey was too wrapped up and tied with Perry's voice.
Maybe they ought to try to talk him into managing them.

I am sure he is not interested or qualified. He almost destroyed the band while they waited around for him.

Steve Perry didn't "almost destroy" the band.

HE was ONE of the five in the band that GREATLY CONTRIBUTED in making them a successful band!

Lori

[The_Noble_Cause]

None of the above three posts are even to be given consideration, imo,as Journey and Santana's histories will declare them null and void.

I fail to see what the history of both Santanna and Journey has to do with maturely discussing the reasons as to why Cain was forbidden from singing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Steve Perry didn't "almost destroy" the band.

HE was ONE of the five in the band that GREATLY CONTRIBUTED in making them a successful band!

Lori

Actually, he played an equally important role in doing both.
Objective fans see this, brainwashed Perry-sheep can not.

Have another invigorating drink of the cool-aid!

[PROPERRY]

Steve Perry didn't "almost destroy" the band.

HE was ONE of the five in the band that GREATLY CONTRIBUTED in making them a successful band!

Lori

Actually, he played an equally important role in doing both.
Objective fans see this, brainwashed Perry-sheep can not.

Have another invigorating drink of the cool-aid!

Yea right, the band was "so destroyed" that they made it to the Hollywood Walk OF Fame!


Lori

[The_Noble_Cause]

Steve Perry didn't "almost destroy" the band.

HE was ONE of the five in the band that GREATLY CONTRIBUTED in making them a successful band!

Lori

Actually, he played an equally important role in doing both.
Objective fans see this, brainwashed Perry-sheep can not.

Have another invigorating drink of the cool-aid!

Yea right, the band was "so destroyed" that they made it to the Hollywood Walk OF Fame!

Nearly anybody can get a star on the Hollywood WOF.
Hell, even Donald Duck has one.
Besides, didn't the WOF come about due to years of unyielding petition by the fans?
So how does that bestowment in any way serve as a resounding debunkment of the claim that Perry nearly detroyed the group?

Do you and your cronies ever fling anything out but non sequiturs?
I mean, seriously.

[heardonthestreet]

Are you a musician of some sort, NC?

[Guest]

I find both factions here equally ludicrous in their belligerence. The "Perryloons" refuse to concede that Perry's hyper-controlling ways may have led to the dissolution of the band, while the "Augerigeeks" refuse to acknowledge that Augeri was hired for his vocal kinship to Perry and YET has half the vocal aptitude that Perry possessed.

Perry was an ass, and his dictatorship led the band down the path of mediocrity with ROR, and eventually to the band's demise.

Augeri was hired to help ressurect Journey, yet his vocal stylings, while similar to Perry's, are not as strong, and have not enabled the band to soar to the same cosmic heights as previously...and in fact may be the main reason why the band lingers in commercial limbo.


Both factions need to face the music.

[NealIsGod]

I find both factions here equally ludicrous in their belligerence. The "Perryloons" refuse to concede that Perry's hyper-controlling ways may have led to the dissolution of the band, while the "Augerigeeks" refuse to acknowledge that Augeri was hired for his vocal kinship to Perry and YET has half the vocal aptitude that Perry possessed.

Perry was an ass, and his dictatorship led the band down the path of mediocrity with ROR, and eventually to the band's demise.

Augeri was hired to help ressurect Journey, yet his vocal stylings, while similar to Perry's, are not as strong, and have not enabled the band to soar to the same cosmic heights as previously...and in fact may be the main reason why the band lingers in commercial limbo.

Both factions need to face the music.

Fans of the Augeri-fronted Journey who post on here CONSTANTLY tell the Perry people (not using the L word anymore) that Journey HAD to hire a singer who can sing the Perry material. Who exactly are you referring to when you say Augeriheads refuse to acknowledge this?

[Guest]

I'm generalizing my references - they're not personal.

And as for hiring someone who could do the material: Sure, they needed a competent singer to do the archived material. But did they "need" a soundalike? No! A soundalike is exactly what they didn't need, IMO. A soundalike simply reminds people of Perry, and makes them wish Perry were still there. A singer who came ready-equipped with his own style would have pushed the band forward and given them a new distinctive flavor. A soundalike is a cheap move.

Hagar was not a soundalike of Roth; Brian Johson was not a soundalike of Bon Scott. They were both capable of singing (if you could call Johnson a singer - more like a screamer) past material competently, and also making their own stamp on their respective bands' sound. In Hagar's case, the band began to suck, but it least it began to suck distinctively. In Johnson's case, the band got even better (for a while anyway).

Anyway. A Perry soundalike is NOT what Journey needed, or needs.