After The Fall

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:56 pm

I do apologise. I need to read more attentively. I thought HOTS stated the interview was in this thread. Sorry again.

by **NealIsGod** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:57 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I do apologise. I need to read more attentively. I thought HOTS stated the interview was in this thread. Sorry again.

A little early to be drinking, eh TNC? :wink:

by **Red13JoePa** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:59 pm

heardonthestreet wrote:Ross suggests it in Andrew's interview with him.

What's so hard to believe? Neal and Jon went off and did Bad English.
In my opinion, with Neal and Perry aboard, how could it be anything but Journey, after all.

What's so hard to believe, my good man, is that Jon Waite was not the frontman for JRNY. Steve Perry WAS. You can't compare Cain and Schon being in a band being fronted by a different singer with the idea of the 3 most key members (especially the singer) of JRNY doing ROR and not having it be a JRNY album. What would be the point? No sense at all, but I guess it would further your apologist campaign for Perry's firing of Valory and Smitty. Wasn't REALLY journey so they didn't get fired from journey by Perry.

as hell.

by **heardonthestreet** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:11 am

I did state that it was just the way I viewed it at the time and it causes me less grief than any other scenario, for lack of positive evidence to the contrary. I'm not trying to swede anyone. I am just answering the question that someone asked of me concerning the supposed firing of Ross and Smitty.

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:17 am

"supposed."

:roll:

by **jrnyman28** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:22 am

heardonthestreet wrote:http://www.cavemanproductions.com/REVS/ssmithiv.html

I remember this interview. I LOVED reading about the efforts Smitty put into learning his craft. And you can see his passion for the project. You can also see how much he wanted to please Perry...that is the only thing that troubled me a little.

by **jrnyman28** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:25 am

brandonpfn wrote:...Of course, most fans (and non fans, but those that think they know why Journey saw success) see Perry as the reason for their fame - but to me, clearly, there was a cohesive synergistic mix of talents, that quite honestly, I have yet to see the likes of from any modern rock music. bands, domestic (US) and abroad.
-Brandon

Great post!

by **heardonthestreet** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:25 am

Smatter honey, did I spell that wrong?

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:30 am

heardonthestreet wrote:Smatter honey, did I spell that wrong?

Oh, no, Sugarbumps. It's just rather out of place juxtaposed against your numerous disclaimers that it's only your opinion that perry did not fire them. The presence of that word takes it away from being that and suggests that it is not known by anyone that they were or weren't fired.

No, it's true that perry fired those guys. Sugar-coated slant on BTM or not, I take perry at his word when he says he fired them.

by **heardonthestreet** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:34 am

You live with your take and I'll live with mine. We can agree to disagree and still be friends, right. Or won't you be my friend? Jeez! Who was it said that?

by **jrnyman28** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:37 am

Ya know, it's funny...some people will take Perry's word as GOLD when it comes to the break-up of Journey in 1996, but when you use Perry's own words about the 'break-up' in 1985 they choose to believe what is easier for them!
Go figure.

by **NealIsGod** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:38 am

jrnyman28 wrote:Ya know, it's funny...some people will take Perry's word as GOLD when it comes to the break-up of Journey in 1996, but when you use Perry's own words about the 'break-up' in 1985 they choose to believe what is easier for them!
Go figure.

True, there are more important things to worry about in life than that! Enjoy the show, TNC.

by **heardonthestreet** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:48 am

My cup is always full, Dave. I have a great outlook.

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:56 am

heardonthestreet wrote:You live with your take and I'll live with mine. We can agree to disagree and still be friends, right. Or won't you be my friend? Jeez! Who was it said that?

OK, snookums. I can live with your take that perry lied when he has stated he sacked ross and smitty.
Pals

And hey. let me ask you this. Since your opinions are sometimes buttressed with facts (though not in this one single instance), why do you think perry lied about canning those 2 :?:

by **jrnyman28** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:00 am

heardonthestreet wrote:My cup is always full, Dave. I have a great outlook.

No it's not, because Perry is not performing or in Journey and you don't accept Journey as it is. However, MY cup is full because I have wonderful memories of Perry AND I have continuing memories of Journey!

And if you have such a great outlook, why do you feel the need to be mean (by your own admission) all the time?

by **NoMoreTails** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:20 am

This is the first time I've seen a Perryhead come out and actually admit that they make up their own "truth" about Journey's history because its easier than accepting what Perry did to destroy the band.
Going so far as to think Perry is not telling the truth when admitting to the mistake of firing Ross and Smitty? I thought this "god" like figure would be incapable of telling a lie.
The evidence of what actually happened is the statements that have been made by all concerned.

by **Red13JoePa** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:38 am

[quote="NoMoreTails"]This is the first time I've seen a Perryhead come out and actually admit that they make up their own "truth" about Journey's history because its easier than accepting what Perry did to destroy the band.

My first time, too.

by **NealIsGod** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:39 am

Red13JoePa wrote:My first time, too.

Your first time's always the most special... :wink:

by **OpeningAct** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:18 am

NealIsGod wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:My first time, too.

Your first time's always the most special...

Ironically, my first time was after a Journey show...I kid you not!!!!

by **NealIsGod** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 2:23 am

OpeningAct wrote:Ironically, my first time was after a Journey show...I kid you not!!!!

Yeah, right after they played "Faith in the Heartland"... :wink:

by **artthou** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:34 pm

I dont want to offend anyone, but I thought Journey broke up because Steve Perry had health problems, and the band didn't feel like waiting for him to recover. I understand they wanted to move on, but why all the animosity? He certainly didn't choose to be sick. I recall reading that he DID ask for new musicians on ROR and regretted that. At some point the blame should be left in the past, since Journey is doing as they please now. Ever heard the term "forgive and forget" ?

by **Rockindeano** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:04 pm

OpeningAct wrote: Ironically, my first time was after a Journey show...I kid you not!!!!

Dude, you waited til after? My first time exploring the ol meat ditch was during a show..REO in LA...I was in rafters, and the song(I'll never forget this), was Turkey Trot...

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:05 pm

artthou wrote:I dont want to offend anyone, but I thought Journey broke up because Steve Perry had health problems, and the band didn't feel like waiting for him to recover. I understand they wanted to move on, but why all the animosity? He certainly didn't choose to be sick.

Neal, Jon and Ross are on record stating that Perry's illness was fake or at the very least no where near as severe as he made it seem.
Around the time of Perry's alleged hip problems he was also seen moving quite agilely about town by a fellow musician. On Surivor's official website, Jim Peterik said he was recording with Surivivor and Perry burst into his studio like a bat out of hell. When fans asked repeatedly about Perry's hip, he didn't even know he was injured.
Journey's creator and former agent, Herbie Herbet, also contends that Perry faked the whole thing.
Perry's long track record of not wanting to do anything with Journey (initially declining to tour for Frontiers, declining to sing with the band at the Herbie roast ceremony, quitting mid-way during the ROR tour, quitting mid-way thru his solo tour, declining to add new vocals to the Time3 box set) also seem to support this.

Here are some Neal quotes on this matter:

Neal: I think there was clearly other motives at the time he called Jon to do the record. I know that Steve was not happy being on Sony at the time and I think they may have made him an ultimatum. This is my own take on it and I don’t know if there is any truth or validity to it but after thinking about it and seeing what actually came down, I’m entitled to that. This is America! I think that they might have made a proposition to where if he did another record with Journey that they would release him solo wise and from Journey so he could go elsewhere and do wherever he wanted to do. That is exactly what happened. We handed in the record and he was like, “No, I’m not touring. I’m out of here.” I am sure that he had some health issues like we all do. When you get older you have health issues. I think there is a lot of cover up there."

_______________________________________________________

Here's another one,

Neal: "We made a decent record," explains Schon, who now lives in San Rafael. "But then nothing happened from there. And I sort of felt that that's what it was gonna be."

Interviewer: Meaning you never really expected a tour?

Neal: "Yeah."

Neal: (after a pause) "And I can't really get into why. I've got like ... you know, everybody signed papers years ago with [Perry]. Like, gag orders."

Interviewer: Gag orders meaning -- meaning that you can't talk about ...?

Neal: "About each other ... yeah," Schon says, laughing. "Silly shit, I know."

____________________________________________________________

Perry's solo drummer would later confirm the reason why Perry reunited with Journey was because in return Sony had promised to promote another single from his latest solo album.

Saying,

"We could have worked for another 2 years easily, but it wasn't just the Bronchitis thing, once Steve recovered from that from what I know Sony was saying "Look, if you come to the table to talk about doing this Journey Reunion thing (TBF), we will release another single off your solo CD" (FTLOSM). So of course he did that and they released the single yet didn't support it and just let it fall to the side sorta. But that's what got him to go back in to do the Journey Reunion."

_____________________________________________________________

Here, Journey creator and former agent, Herbie Herbert tells all.
Giving the dirt on Neal, Jon, Ross and Perry.

http://members.cox.net/mrcarty/

by **Rockindeano** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:11 pm

TNC-

Doesn't that just spell it out...He is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.... I just want to slug that bastard in the dick just one time! For lying to Neal..for lying to Herbie...for lying to Jon..and for lying to all of us...

by **artthou** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:41 pm

Faking illness is quite an accusation. People are able to walk and do plenty of other things during illness- patients on medications are able to exercise, care for themselves, etc. I'm a nurse, so I know first hand about it. I really think it's cruel to judge whether someone else is in pain/ill. That's all I've said. I love Journey, past and present, and as I've said, I don't wish to offend anyone.

Quote:
Perry's long track record of not wanting to do anything with Journey (initially declining to tour for Frontiers, declining to sing with the band at the Herbie roast ceremony, quitting mid-way during the ROR tour, quitting mid-way thru his solo tour, declining to add new vocals to the Time3 box set) also seem to support this.

I'd like to add: this further supports that he could have had health problems earlier on.

by **Rockindeano** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:59 pm

artthou wrote:Faking illness is quite an accusation. People are able to walk and do plenty of other things during illness- patients on medications are able to exercise, care for themselves, etc. I'm a nurse, so I know first hand about it. I really think it's cruel to judge whether someone else is in pain/ill. That's all I've said. I love Journey, past and present, and as I've said, I don't wish to offend anyone.

Quote:
Perry's long track record of not wanting to do anything with Journey (initially declining to tour for Frontiers, declining to sing with the band at the Herbie roast ceremony, quitting mid-way during the ROR tour, quitting mid-way thru his solo tour, declining to add new vocals to the Time3 box set) also seem to support this.

I'd like to add: this further supports that he could have had health problems earlier on.

Oh he most certainly has health problems.. His head needs to be examined...He NEVER ploclaimed to have anything wrong until the BS of ROR.. Arthou, he allegedly had a hip problem..Funny how he was dancing the night away during the video! hahaha...Dude is a prima-donna...I will call anyone out if I think they are "jaking it." aka..faker...

The bottom line is Perry had enough jack in the bank..He did not have to go on.. During the Behind the Music special, he was "healthy and thinking about touring everyday." Um, that was 3 yrs ago..He has no plans ever to do a damned thing..and more power to him! He deserves it..He earned it! Just be truthful about it! Well, he can't now..the truth would forever haunt him, and his fans would turn on him.

It's over, and I'm sure Perry wants this subject dropped...

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:10 pm

artthou wrote:I really think it's cruel to judge whether someone else is in pain/ill.

No, it's not. Not if that certain *someone* is an integral part of a band, a corporation. He has a responsibility to keep his bandmates informed and not jeopardize their livelihoods by placing them into purgatory. Besides leaving the band and the fans in the dark, he also held up the venues that WANTED to book Journey. He held up the crews that would have went on the road. He held up many people.

As Neal said, "one thing in the show that caused a lot of controversy, in one section it said we waited months for him. And I called up the producer and I said months? Are you kidding? We waited years. We waited ten years and then we got back together and then it was close to two years.
We asked for a commitment from him, we just said, "Do you want to do this or do you not want to do it, we'll wait for you if you do want to do it, if you'll commit to it", "No, I can't commit to it, and I can't commit to doing my operation", and so at one point Jon and I turned around to each other and just said, look, we could be sitting here forever, I mean, do you want to move on, or do you not?"

by **PROPERRY** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:33 am

Rock'ndeano wrote:TNC-

Doesn't that just spell it out...He is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.... I just want to slug that bastard in the dick just one time! For lying to Neal..for lying to Herbie...for lying to Jon..and for lying to all of us...

OH LOOK HERE.... SUPPOSEDLY YOU (Deano & NC) CALL yourselves Perry fans. This is just MORE proof that YOU BOTH TALK out of both sides of your mouths OR should I say A$$!!!

Deano, you told us here before that when you went to the Hollywood Walk of Fame that YOU shook Perry's hand & got an autograph from him, then YOU run back to the message board & do nothing but SLAM Perry.

What's the matter is there just NOT enough exciting things going on with the current Journey???. NOTHING to talk about huh??? So VERY sad that all "you both" can do here is slam Perry!!!! :roll:

Lori

by **Rockindeano** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:51 am

PROPERRY wrote:
Rock'ndeano wrote:TNC-

Doesn't that just spell it out...He is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T.... I just want to slug that bastard in the dick just one time! For lying to Neal..for lying to Herbie...for lying to Jon..and for lying to all of us...

OH LOOK HERE.... SUPPOSEDLY YOU (Deano & NC) CALL yourselves Perry fans. This is just MORE proof that YOU BOTH TALK out of both sides of your mouths OR should I say A$$!!!

Deano, you told us here before that when you went to the Hollywood Walk of Fame that YOU shook Perry's hand & got an autograph from him, then YOU run back to the message board & do nothing but SLAM Perry.

What's the matter is there just NOT enough exciting things going on with the current Journey???. NOTHING to talk about huh??? So VERY sad that all "you both" can do here is slam Perry!!!!

Lori

I DID go to the WOF..I am a fan. I did meet your god...Am I supposed to turn a blind eye to his poor character? His fucking lies? His backstabbing?

Steve Perry, is the greatest voice of all time.. Period. I am a fan of his talent. However, I am no way a fan of him..as a person.

The bottom line here Lori..He lied to me..a fan who bought every one of his bands records....Neal Schon and Jon Cain have never betrayed me..In fact, they still are there for me...

Also Lori, there is PLENTY to talk about with the current Journey. What did you have in mind, hon? I must warn you however, there really isn't any Steve Perry news to talk of now..But we can sure talk about the hugely successful tour, the great new CD, and the faithful members who work not only for themselves, but for us...

by **Rockindeano** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:58 am

PROPERRY wrote: So VERY sad that all "you both" can do here is slam Perry!!!!

Lori

Lookie here...the Pot calling the kettle black... All we do "is slam Perry?" Uh, when it's appropriate, yeah sure. If you hadn't noticed sweetheart, I slam Journey management when it is called for, and believe me, it is. I haven't really slammed Neal, because frankly, he is doing his job, and quite well I might add..same with Jon and the rest of the band.

You my dear, are the one who "always slams" Journey. I told you, if you wanted to give Generations a listen, I will send you a copy today...just say the word. Are you afraid you actually might like it? There is always room for more on the Journey train....trust me, it's alot better on this side of the tracks...

MR

After The Fall

Re: What Perry did.... / a bit a Smitty

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