Here From Back Talk

[jwsw_jeff]

Hi All. Vancouverdude told me about this forum several weeks ago. He also told me that sooner or later my head would explode from the constant mind-numbing attitudes on the Balk Talk forums.

Well, he was right.

My head is bandaged back together, and we'll see how long it takes for y'all to collectively boot my ass from here as well.

[Red13JoePa]

Hi All. Vancouverdude told me about this forum several weeks ago. He also told me that sooner or later my head would explode from the constant mind-numbing attitudes on the Balk Talk forums.

Well, he was right.

My head is bandaged back together, and we'll see how long it takes for y'all to collectively boot my ass from here as well.

Andrew, the homeowner and (very fair) king of the castle here is the only one who can boot anybody.
Why, praytell, are you certain it will come to that?

[jrnyman28]

Welcome to the board Jeff.
I have seen a couple of your posts over at BT.

So, what is your biggest BT grievance?

[jwsw_jeff]

Yesterday, a few people were peeved because this weekends shows were reduced from 3 hours to 1.5. Completely understandable, given Jon Cain's condition, but being a person who has to travel a great deal to get to the shows myself, I can understand the disappointment. Those people really got flamed badly.

Hey all I did today was post that some of the personal attacks made against those folks were pretty much shitty (HEY! I can say shitty on this board! ) and that people should grow up a little and not stoop to personal attacks.

Um, that was stupid. And I didn't wear my flame-retardant underwear today.

So, I figure if I can get chased off for saying "be nice" - I can probably get chased away from any forum

[jwsw_jeff]

Out of fairness, here is my complete and unedited original post.

- - -

Last night, in the thread "90-minute set list?," several fans voice some concern over the shortened set list and opined that these shows should have been cancelled. Their reasons were their personal significant investments in tickets and travel for these shows.

I disagree. I think that given the circumstances, it is great that the band has agreed to perform.

However, I also feel quite strongly that anyone with a ticket should have the option of a 100% refund. I could not agree more that these fans have paid for a 3+ hour show, and should have the option.

In my personal case, when this is all said and done, I will have spent money on three round-trip plane tickets, food & lodging and four concert tickets, including two four-star packages. I am doing so because the three hour show is an amazing piece of performance art, and worth (in my opinion) every fricking penny I spent.

But let me be quite clear. If Phoenix was turned from a three hour show to a 90 minute show, I am pulling out and getting a refund for my tickets. If whomever doesn't like it, they can talk to my attorney. I am paying for a three hour show and would NOT invest this amount, regardless of how great it might be, for something shorter. I'll mix some drinks, crank up the home theatre and watch my 2001 concert DVD at home --- that's free.

That is my opinion, and it is shared by others.

This is a BUSINESS consideration. Doesn't mean I don't love the band, or I am not a true fan, or whatever. It just means that I have kids, a small business and I don't have that much disposable income, and I carefully pick and choose my entertainment options.

NOW HERE IS THE MAIN REASON FOR MY POST.

Those of you that jumped into the fray with name calling and childish rants directed at these people should be ASHAMED of yourselves. ASHAMED.

Since my first day here I have been pleased to see how friendly everyone here is. I have been welcomed with "Open Arms," sorry for that pun.

This is not about caring for the health of Jonathan Cain. And understand this: one reason why Journey may have decided to continue with these shows (in CONJUNCTION with their appreciation and respect for the fans) was a contractual obligation to perform. Oop! There it goes again, that nasty BUSINESS talk. When a hurricaine levels a venue, a cancellation is expected. When a band member falls ill, the promoter probably expects the show to go on, especially after spending thousands promoting it and taking in tens - if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in ticket sales.

I love Journey and I respect and admire Jon a TON. But for you folks to not look at the big picture and focus some pretty nasty personal attacks on people who felt they paid for a three hour show was just terrible. I know that most of your reaction was rooted in your love for this awesome musician, but there *is* a bigger picture here.

I strongly hope my post reaches you without generating the same response as other posts did last night. I was really disappointed in the tone of that discussion.

[jwsw_jeff]

The best and last response was from "lovedbyyou" who GOT IT and wrote:

- - -

Ok Let me try this again.....

I don't think Jeff was saying "sick or not - Jonathan should play" That was not the point he was trying to make (correct me, Jeff, if I'm wrong) I think he, like everyone else, would not even want Jonathan to play AT ALL if it were detrimental to his health.

So the "I would say the bigger picture is the health of a father, husband, and brother." comment was a mute point.

Whether you WANT to hear about the "business" end of this band - there is one....I know everyone wants to think they are in this just for the "joy" of playing for "us" but don't kid yourself, they think about the business.

Each person's "business" is different and although it doesn't mean anything to everyone it is important to THAT person. I think that what individuals are able to do IS of relevance here. Don't discount that, it's not up to you.

If I read the initial post correctly - this doesn't even effect Jeff directly - he was just speaking for the little ones that have been bashed since expressing their opinion about the shows.

Taking me back to the comment that I think this site breeds the MEANEST and NASTIEST fans.

[heardonthestreet]

I thought that they were already doing the 90 min show before Jon became ill. What was that show where the fans got mad and threw bottles?

[jwsw_jeff]

Shows on the generations tour have been averaging 180+ minutes.

[jwsw_jeff]

The Las Vegas show was over 3 1/2 hours

[jrnyman28]

I thought that they were already doing the 90 min show before Jon became ill.

No, this was going to be one of the 3 hour shows. (They range from 2:24-3:15)

What was that show where the fans got mad and threw bottles?

That was the Sioux Falls (Sturgis) show. The length of that show was never promoted by the band. The promoters ASSumed it was a 3 hour show.

[Red13JoePa]

And I'll say what HOTS already knows that the fair shows are time-constrained to an hour and a half. Deano God rest his soul went to one of them and said it was still worth it for how ON they were.
Non-fair shows are the full Generations show duration of the promised 3 hours. If Cain's health only allows them to do a cautious 90 min, then so be it. The guy's over 50 .

[Angiekay]

That was the Sioux Falls (Sturgis) show. The length of that show was never promoted by the band. The promoters ASSumed it was a 3 hour show.

FYI...Sioux Falls and Sturgis are two different cities across the state from each other...two different shows. Sturgis actually GOT the 3 hour show(god forbid they piss off a bunch of bikers).

[jwsw_jeff]

PLEASE... don't get sidetracked by the secondary subject of ticketing policies and show length.

The main concept I was trying to express was for members to not attack other members - especially for opinions related to this kind of subject. It was brutal and unecessary.

And now the thread is completely gone, how lame. Bad enough it was closed...

[Angiekay]

And I'll say what HOTS already knows that the fair shows are time-constrained to an hour and a half.

PLEASE get your facts straight!!! Fairs (in our case)request a MINIMUM of 75-90minutes. After that they ENCOURAGE bands to go as long as they want. The night after Journey played here the bands went for five hours. If you are talking Journey in particular, they need to set that rule for ALL fairs because I talked to people who'd been to fairs where Journey played the full three hours.

[jwsw_jeff]

Like I said in my original post, if Journey played less than 3 hours, I would not make the investment in 4 star tickets, and air expenses from WA, plus hotel and etc. BUT that is my choice.

I was pissed that people with the same opinion got that shoved up thier collectve asses.

[Angiekay]

Like I said in my original post, if Journey played less than 3 hours, I would not make the investment in 4 star tickets, and air expenses from WA, plus hotel and etc. BUT that is my choice.

I was pissed that people with the same opinion got that shoved up thier collectve asses.

Welcome to the world of 'take what you get, enjoy it and shutup'ville. Unfortunately, it's not THAT much different here, Jeff. They will just listen nicely for a while, nod their head and then tell you what a whiner you are.

[jwsw_jeff]

[deleted with apologies]

[Angiekay]

I wasn't whining about SHIT. I was standing up for other people who were getting screwed and flamed for no reason.

And here's where I get booted, like I give a shit.

Angie, FUCK THE HELL OFF.

Whoa, dude, chill out, I wasn't ripping on YOU. Please re-read my post. I was agreeing with you and telling you what people around here will say TO you for supporting people not happy with an hour and a half show. I'm not calling *you* a whiner! Jeez, with a mouth like that, you're going to fit in well around here! LOL! So much for you being disgruntled with people ATTACKING other people!

[Andrew]

I wasn't whining about SHIT. I was standing up for other people who were getting screwed and flamed for no reason.

And here's where I get booted, like I give a shit.

Angie, FUCK THE HELL OFF.

Er, excuse me Jeff, but there is no personal abuse tollerated here. By all means state your case for the positive or th enegative on any situation, but no personal abuse please.

Things are just begining to calm down here and I'm not keen for someone else to appear and hurl abuse.

Look forward to your contributions to come.

[heardonthestreet]

Good Morning Andrew! It's 1:24 a.m. here as I type. What time is it there?

Angie, if you want to get satisfaction, promote David Pack's new album, "The Secret Of Movein On." Push the song "A Brand New Start." Pack sings with Steve Perry and Perry's voice is golden as usual.

jwsw_jeff, how long have you been posting at Backtalk and how well did you get to know the posters there?To know them is.......to know them.

[jwsw_jeff]

Sorry... Angie, Andrew...

I have been attacked all day long and I finally popped off. Yeah, Angie, I read that wrong.

Plus, I've been drinkin'. It's pretty sad that I let a webforum ruin my day, but I did. And I am hammered. It's not an excuse, just an explanation. I was still wrong to write that.

I apologize profusely. Sincerely.

[jwsw_jeff]

See, I told you I wouldn't last long.

I need to get a life.

[jwsw_jeff]

I am really embarrassed.

[Andrew]

I am really embarrassed.

Trial by fire...

Just relax and have some fun. This has been known to be a great forum and I'm working towards restating that reputation.

As I said, we'll look forward to your (sober) contributions!

[Angiekay]

Angie, if you want to get satisfaction, promote David Pack's new album, "The Secret Of Movein On." Push the song "A Brand New Start." Pack sings with Steve Perry and Perry's voice is golden as usual.

Well, unfortunately, I'm on a classic rock station and I don't think David Pack falls into that category very well...but I may check it out for myself! Thanks!

[Angiekay]

Sorry... Angie, Andrew...

I have been attacked all day long and I finally popped off. Yeah, Angie, I read that wrong.

Plus, I've been drinkin'. It's pretty sad that I let a webforum ruin my day, but I did. And I am hammered. It's not an excuse, just an explanation. I was still wrong to write that.

I apologize profusely. Sincerely.

Ah, yeah, Jack Daniels and Mr. Bud don't play well with others sometime! Apology accepted, Jeff!

[heardonthestreet]

Do you remember Pack from "Ambrosia," Angie?

He has Ann Wilson on the album also.

I hope that you stick around here as I think that you would have some interesting output to contribute. Some of us aren't in total agreement with the rest but we agree to disagree.

Andrew is very tolerant, to a point.

[perryfaithful]

I wasn't whining about SHIT. I was standing up for other people who were getting screwed and flamed for no reason.

And here's where I get booted, like I give a shit.

Angie, FUCK THE HELL OFF.

Jeff's BT friend Vancouverdude......Isn't that Deano??

[Red13JoePa]

And I'll say what HOTS already knows that the fair shows are time-constrained to an hour and a half.

"PLEASE get your facts straight!!! Fairs (in our case)request a MINIMUM of 75-90minutes. After that they ENCOURAGE bands to go as long as they want. The night after Journey played here the bands went for five hours. If you are talking Journey in particular, they need to set that rule for ALL fairs because I talked to people who'd been to fairs where Journey played the full three hours.

"

Oh, they're straight. Unlike you I'm not going off half-cocked on this one. But that's just the kind of guy you are, right?
Anyhow the band has said time and again that they're time constrained by fairs to about an hour and a half. Get that through your head. Your fair is not the only one in the country that got 90 minutes. And it's common knowledge and backed up by band statements that that's how long their allowed to play most fairs. YOUR town's fair, contrary to every sour grape you've posted in here, IS NOT THE TEMPLATE for all the national fairs they play. And if they asked for a minimum of 75-90, then the band obliged. And if objects are being tossed at them from the crowd please explain the genesis of your sense of entitlement to them risking physical harm just because the crowd "deserves" an encore. And what's with the hypocritical policing of peoples' "nice mouth"s? Maybe YOU should take your OWN advice and go back and reread the Gene Simmons thread down there. The first one to toss an expletive out there was you, kiddo.

[Angiekay]

Oh, they're straight. Unlike you I'm not going off half-cocked on this one. But that's just the kind of guy you are, right?
Anyhow the band has said time and again that they're time constrained by fairs to about an hour and a half. Get that through your head. Your fair is not the only one in the country that got 90 minutes. And it's common knowledge and backed up by band statements that that's how long their allowed to play most fairs. YOUR town's fair, contrary to every sour grape you've posted in here, IS NOT THE TEMPLATE for all the national fairs they play. And if they asked for a minimum of 75-90, then the band obliged. And if objects are being tossed at them from the crowd please explain the genesis of your sense of entitlement to them risking physical harm just because the crowd "deserves" an encore. And what's with the hypocritical policing of peoples' "nice mouth"s? Maybe YOU should take your OWN advice and go back and reread the Gene Simmons thread down there. The first one to toss an expletive out there was you, kiddo.

LMAO!!! THAT whole trirade you just posted was not half cocked?! Such hypocrisy around here

Ok, Miss, "that was yesterday and we should deal with what is at hand in THIS topic" This has nothing to do with throwing objects, but thanks for YOU being able to drag that up again, when I'm the one that's always "rehashing things" We are not talking Sioux Fall's show, or bottles. we are talking around ONE policy for all situations. YOU JUST SAID: "And I'll say what HOTS already knows that the fair shows are time-constrained to an hour and a half. " THAT is horsecrap. Some fairs get 90 minutes SOME get three hours. It's one or the other, not both. Try and keep it at the topic at hand. And if you can show me an expletive in this thread, feel free. Show a little maturity. I know that can be a stretch for a few of you around here.