Randy Jackson / ATF / Journey FAQ

[brandonx76]

In perusing some of the posts here, there appears to be some speculation that Randy had actually recorded with the band on the Frontiers album - specifically cited was Randy playing on "after the fall".

So this naturally sparked a "No f'n way" discussion between myself and my brother once I mentioned this to him. His argument - ATF's bass line is unmistakably Ross. He was just as shocked to have seen Randy's name listed on the liner notes of the CD (yep...they're there), but can anyone confirm what his role was? I found the following FAQ which seems to be incomplete and ripe with a few innaccuracies (Steve Smith was Ansley Dunbar's drum roadie?? LOL!!!)

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.musi ... d690fcb66e


After listening to the track, and the signature bass riff at the 3:58 section of the song, I'm going to side that it's Ross... Did Randy record tracks / alternate takes during the recording of Frontiers? Is his playing possibly on another track other than ATF?


Can anyone confirm? Also does anyone know or have link to what was referred to as the "ROR doc" here?

Thanks all....

-Brandon

[Monker]

Yes, Randy Jackson performed on "After the Fall". There was an interview somewhere where it is mentioned that Randy was Ross's studio backup. So, he may be on other songs but I don't know of any strong evidence of which ones.

[Monker]

BTW, you can find this Journey FAQ online at journey-tribute.com

[Red13JoePa]

Goddamit!!!!!!!!!

I wanted to believe it was Ross....(and as he's the only officially credited bass player on the album, I may allow myself a HeardOnTheStreet exclusionary rule here and STILL choose to believe Ross did the Ba Da Ba Da BUMP Ba Ba Da Da Da BUMP kicking off the amazing ending solos by cain/shcon). But I started to have my fears when SRGCHK4 (sorry if I buthcered your name) and 28 both said it's Jaxon on Frontiers' ATF.

Thank god for Greatest Hits Live (never thought I'd write that).

[heardonthestreet]

I think that it had something to do with "funky business", Joe.

[Red13JoePa]

My sweet, what do you mean? It was funkier so it must've been Jaxon?

[heardonthestreet]

Darlin, I heardonthestreet that Jackson was the name and Funk was the game. A desired beat for that song.

[Red13JoePa]

I can live with it. I'm definately outnumbered on it. You're at least the 4th person to tell me.
Ah, what the hell. Here comes the exclusionary rule. Much like Steve Perry did not fire Ross Valory and Steve Smith on ROR, so did Ross Valory play bass on ATF.

[brandonx76]

So aside from heresay and what appears to be displaced Perry denail - there is no confirmed source (at least known here) that confirms this rumor? I'd love to clarify with the man himself (Ross)

Thanks in any event.

-Brandon

[OpeningAct]

To be honest...Ross is the most overrated musician in the band. He sounded HORRIBLE at Meadowbrook and was even worse at Mohegan Sun. I mean, REALLY bad!!!!
I'm so tired of hearing about him making funny faces and playing the clown, and squirting his water bottle on the audience...maybe a little less BS and more practice would suit him better.
I am TRULY suprised that Neal hasn't canned him....I really don't blame Perry for the ROR firing of Valory....he just doesn't measure up.

[brandonx76]

To be honest...Ross is the most overrated musician in the band. He sounded HORRIBLE at Meadowbrook and was even worse at Mohegan Sun. I mean, REALLY bad!!!!

Sorry to hear you had a couple of "bad" concert expriences....

Wow ....clearly you either A) have never owned stereo equipment that was capable of playing back the "bottom-end" enough so that a quality bass line could be recognized for its class, or B) have never played music by yourself or with a band where a decent bass player was needed.

Although I do recall Herbie Herbert's comments on Ross "needing to practice", that was about...what....over twenty years ago??!!? Come on.....Your claims that Ross doesn't "measure up" is nothing short of pure non-sense which could easily serve to spawn a four page + diatribe (of which I have no time to write) featuring a detailed analysis of solid and groovin' bass playing by a crazy talented and "natural" musician....

Go flame someone who doesn't recognize the obvious signs of pure insanity not uncommon to the type be-set upon the Perry maligned.

-Brandon

[Argus]

To be honest...Ross is the most overrated musician in the band. He sounded HORRIBLE at Meadowbrook and was even worse at Mohegan Sun. I mean, REALLY bad!!!!

Sorry to hear you had a couple of "bad" concert expriences....

Wow ....clearly you either A) have never owned stereo equipment that was capable of playing back the "bottom-end" enough so that a quality bass line could be recognized for its class, or B) have never played music by yourself or with a band where a decent bass player was needed.

Although I do recall Herbie Herbert's comments on Ross "needing to practice", that was about...what....over twenty years ago??!!? Come on.....Your claims that Ross doesn't "measure up" is nothing short of pure non-sense which could easily serve to spawn a four page + diatribe (of which I have no time to write) featuring a detailed analysis of solid and groovin' bass playing by a crazy talented and "natural" musician....

Go flame someone who doesn't recognize the obvious signs of pure insanity not uncommon to the type be-set upon the Perry maligned.

-Brandon

Amen. Playing with Todd Rundgren is no easy task either. Take your meds Joe.

[OpeningAct]

To be honest...Ross is the most overrated musician in the band. He sounded HORRIBLE at Meadowbrook and was even worse at Mohegan Sun. I mean, REALLY bad!!!!

Sorry to hear you had a couple of "bad" concert expriences....

Wow ....clearly you either A) have never owned stereo equipment that was capable of playing back the "bottom-end" enough so that a quality bass line could be recognized for its class, or B) have never played music by yourself or with a band where a decent bass player was needed.

Although I do recall Herbie Herbert's comments on Ross "needing to practice", that was about...what....over twenty years ago??!!? Come on.....Your claims that Ross doesn't "measure up" is nothing short of pure non-sense which could easily serve to spawn a four page + diatribe (of which I have no time to write) featuring a detailed analysis of solid and groovin' bass playing by a crazy talented and "natural" musician....

Go flame someone who doesn't recognize the obvious signs of pure insanity not uncommon to the type be-set upon the Perry maligned.

-Brandon

Yeah...um...I'm not a musician, but I can tell you he sounded bad.
As for the pure insanity thing...I wasn't flaming, but hows about you go f-yourself just the same...Brandon....

[OpeningAct]

To be honest...Ross is the most overrated musician in the band. He sounded HORRIBLE at Meadowbrook and was even worse at Mohegan Sun. I mean, REALLY bad!!!!

Sorry to hear you had a couple of "bad" concert expriences....

Wow ....clearly you either A) have never owned stereo equipment that was capable of playing back the "bottom-end" enough so that a quality bass line could be recognized for its class, or B) have never played music by yourself or with a band where a decent bass player was needed.

Although I do recall Herbie Herbert's comments on Ross "needing to practice", that was about...what....over twenty years ago??!!? Come on.....Your claims that Ross doesn't "measure up" is nothing short of pure non-sense which could easily serve to spawn a four page + diatribe (of which I have no time to write) featuring a detailed analysis of solid and groovin' bass playing by a crazy talented and "natural" musician....

Go flame someone who doesn't recognize the obvious signs of pure insanity not uncommon to the type be-set upon the Perry maligned.

-Brandon

Amen. Playing with Todd Rundgren is no easy task either. Take your meds Joe.

Thanks for reminding me Ace, but the voices in my head are telling me not to...

[NoMoreTails]

To be honest...Ross is the most overrated musician in the band. He sounded HORRIBLE at Meadowbrook and was even worse at Mohegan Sun. I mean, REALLY bad!!!!
I am TRULY suprised that Neal hasn't canned him....I really don't blame Perry for the ROR firing of Valory....he just doesn't measure up.

Being called the least talented musician in this band would not necessarily be an insult. In the numerous shows I've seen since Journey re-united, I've never heard Ross sound horrible, perhaps there were some sound issues. As far as his talent, I would say he's probaby held back by his role in Journey, there's not much room for virtuoso bass in their material.
Has anyone heard his intro to Nickel and Dime on this tour? Pretty awesome. Based on comments from Neal years ago, I believe he thinks Ross is an underrated bass player.

[Red13JoePa]

Agree with Brandon and NoTails.
Brandon's point that Ross lays out the bottom of tunes wonderfully without getting in the way. No uneccesarry fills just to be heard, never solos.
Especially now, I'm thinking of the really fat bottom bass track on Higher Place, Faith In The Heartland, and The Place In Your Heart. He starts in after the rest of the instrumnets, and you FEEL his line more than hear or notice it.

NoMoreTails' point that the style JRNY plays requires bassist restraint and ego checking seems accurate to me. I'll restate that on the songs like HP where Ross joins in after the start you don't notice he wasn't there until he's THERE. Total nuance bass. Not Micheal Anthony or Nikki Sixx bass virtuoso.....

[brandonx76]

Ross lays out the bottom of tunes wonderfully without getting in the way. No uneccesarry fills just to be heard, never solos.

Agree with you Red - and it is these qualities I think, that make him a great bass player - Ross plays for the song and still makes his presence known. Makes you wonder what Perry's gripe was....And with regards to solo's - don't forget the classic "La Do Da" solo before the Steve Smith solo on Captured...

[NoMoreTails]

Especially now, I'm thinking of the really fat bottom bass track on Higher Place, Faith In The Heartland, and The Place In Your Heart. He starts in after the rest of the instrumnets, and you FEEL his line more than hear or notice it. Total nuance bass. Not Micheal Anthony or Nikki Sixx bass virtuoso.....

Good points as well. Ross also weaves some subtle but very cool counter melodies into his playing, something you have to really listen for, but a very cool part of the Journey sound. IMO Ross is the perfect guy for Journey.

Also the chemistry among these guys is obvious on stage and Ross has to be a great guy to hang out with on a daily basis. His antics on stage are just him being himself and don't interfere with his performance.

On the subject of bass players, I like Marco Mendoza really well based on his work with Soul Sirkus.

[Red13JoePa]

You're right, Brand....the one exception to the Ross restraint rule is La Do Da.....that solo on Captured is nuts.....

[NealIsGod]

I think Ross' bass adds a lot to La Raza Del Sol, both on the record and live.

[Red13JoePa]

La Raza's a top 10er for me.....the latin Jamout on the dvd rocks, too.

Cain on the Hammond....Neal and Deen going OFF

La Raza Del Sol....yet another reason why Time3 is the single most indespensible piece of music I own.

[brandonx76]

La Raza is awesome, great Steve Smith latin drum groove thing...I had heard that there's another version on 45 LP that has an alternate guitar solo (all electric I remember hearing)....would love to track that down....

Speaking of Time 3...."Liberty" is totally awesome - great vocal and cool guitar sound. It sounds like a left over from Escape (specifically Perry's vocal), but I think it's from the Frontiers era..Glad we got to hear it.

[jrnyman28]

La Raza is awesome, great Steve Smith latin drum groove thing...I had heard that there's another version on 45 LP that has an alternate guitar solo (all electric I remember hearing)....would love to track that down....

The 'b' side of Still They Ride.

Speaking of Time 3...."Liberty" is totally awesome - great vocal and cool guitar sound. It sounds like a left over from Escape (specifically Perry's vocal), but I think it's from the Frontiers era..Glad we got to hear it.

Was especially cool acoustic during the 2003 UTR tour.

[Red13JoePa]

La Raza is awesome, great Steve Smith latin drum groove thing...I had heard that there's another version on 45 LP that has an alternate guitar solo (all electric I remember hearing)....would love to track that down....

The 'b' side of Still They Ride.

Speaking of Time 3...."Liberty" is totally awesome - great vocal and cool guitar sound. It sounds like a left over from Escape (specifically Perry's vocal), but I think it's from the Frontiers era..Glad we got to hear it.

Was especially cool acoustic during the 2003 UTR tour.

Yes it was cool on UTR. That was '02. They extended it out into another little cain/shcon jam too. Just spectacular.
In my esteem Liberty is Steve Perry's finest vocal hour. Stunning performance.

[OpeningAct]

After reading the posts after mine I have to admit, I agree. Ross' bass seemed to reverberate, if that makes any sense, at the two shows I saw. I'm guessing it was an equipment problem.
And how could I forget the La Do Da solo...THAT was amazing stuff.
Good point also about Ross laying down the bass more subtly than other guitarists and how it fits the songs so well.
I think it would be cool if Ross and Deen did a little musical number together, much the way Ross and Smitty did on Captured...that would raise the roof!!!!!

[NealIsGod]

Someone remembered their meds today!