Trial by Fire overlooked....

[jrnyman28]

I couldn't have said it better myself, Dave. Fantastic reply.

[ohsherrie]

TGF may not have met the cultural requirements to become a classic. It may hot have fit into any of the music genre "catagories" that were popular at the time. But I think, musically, it had all of the right ingredients. It's simply full of beautifully written and executed music. Whether or not everyone personally likes the each of the songs, the quality of the writing and the performance is still there.


I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who disagrees that the lack of touring did the album in. I never did understand how touring was going to have such an impact. The group's identity was already established so it wasn't as if they had to go out and garner a following by getting their music heard. Very few acts, other than country artists, tour as incessently as the "stadium rock" groups of the '80s. As someone else said, very few albums dominate the charts the way they did then either.

[NealIsGod]

TGF may not have met the cultural requirements to become a classic. It may hot have fit into any of the music genre "catagories" that were popular at the time. But I think, musically, it had all of the right ingredients. It's simply full of beautifully written and executed music. Whether or not everyone personally likes the each of the songs, the quality of the writing and the performance is still there.


I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who disagrees that the lack of touring did the album in. I never did understand how touring was going to have such an impact. The group's identity was already established so it wasn't as if they had to go out and garner a following by getting their music heard. Very few acts, other than country artists, tour as incessently as the "stadium rock" groups of the '80s. As someone else said, very few albums dominate the charts the way they did then either.

Lack of a tour did not affect MY opinion of it. I wanted SOOOO much to love it, but could not.

[jrnyman28]

TGF may not have met the cultural requirements to become a classic. It may hot have fit into any of the music genre "catagories" that were popular at the time. But I think, musically, it had all of the right ingredients. It's simply full of beautifully written and executed music. Whether or not everyone personally likes the each of the songs, the quality of the writing and the performance is still there.

I agree. Well-written, arranged, played, produced CD.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who disagrees that the lack of touring did the album in. I never did understand how touring was going to have such an impact.

Well, touring keeps the new music in front of the people. And it USED TO keep people requesting the music. Therefore, with each show you had a surge in requests in each city. Market by market that created an endurance of the new material.

The group's identity was already established so it wasn't as if they had to go out and garner a following by getting their music heard.

True. Really, the lack of label support during the "incident" truly killed the CD. BUT, I just thought about the fact that Journey was a "reunion". A tour DEFINATELY would help sell the CD. IMO Consumers don't really want to support a comebak cD if they do not feel the band "Means it". One way to show that you "mean it" is by touring. Granted, that does not actually require sincerity, but without the tour it really looks like an illusion...

Very few acts, other than country artists, tour as incessently as the "stadium rock" groups of the '80s. As someone else said, very few albums dominate the charts the way they did then either.

I think the touring of the past created the longevity and sales. it also created a following or loyalty to an act. But in this day and age, it is all about instant gratification and the flavor of the moment. Groups have to do quick tours and record a follow-up or the will just fade from relevance.

Country is a very special community. It is one of the only communities that continue to support and respect their 'fore-fathers'. Groups maintain loyalty from their fans. They put out a CD every year or so (like the old days) and they tour hard. It works for them...it would work for other acts/genres.

[ohsherrie]

Well, touring keeps the new music in front of the people. And it USED TO keep people requesting the music. Therefore, with each show you had a surge in requests in each city. Market by market that created an endurance of the new material.



True. Really, the lack of label support during the "incident" truly killed the CD. BUT, I just thought about the fact that Journey was a "reunion". A tour DEFINATELY would help sell the CD. IMO Consumers don't really want to support a comebak cD if they do not feel the band "Means it". One way to show that you "mean it" is by touring. Granted, that does not actually require sincerity, but without the tour it really looks like an illusion...


I think the touring of the past created the longevity and sales. it also created a following or loyalty to an act. But in this day and age, it is all about instant gratification and the flavor of the moment. Groups have to do quick tours and record a follow-up or the will just fade from relevance.

I agree completely.

Country is a very special community. It is one of the only communities that continue to support and respect their 'fore-fathers'. Groups maintain loyalty from their fans. They put out a CD every year or so (like the old days) and they tour hard. It works for them...it would work for other acts/genres.

I don't think there's as much loyalty in Counrty music as there used to be. There's getting to be more and more of a "flavor of the month" thing there too. There isn't quite as much difference between the flavors in that genre though, so last month's flavor doesn't drop out of sight quite as fast.

[mnmsjrny]

I don't think I posted much about my opinion of TBF right away, because everybody was so hyped for the reunion. I waited until it was obvious, to me, that there would be no tour and the band was on hiatus again...then I really layed on a lot of critique towards the band.

You Monker?? NEVER!

I know I've posted many times that it sounds like "Beyond the Thunder" with Perry adding vocals. It was WAY too much of the same sound. I had the same reaction to it as I did BE's "Backlash"...I thought it was a great album at first but instead of liking the songs MORE as I listened, I ended up liking them less. The only song from TBF that I have always liked was "One More"...because it sounded like they were trying something new and different.

Hmmm... ya know, I never thought of that, but now that you mention it, TBF *does* have a "Beyond the Thunder" feel to it... Now, your reaction to "Backlash" was MY reaction to the FIRST Bad English album. I pull it out about once a year to see if my opinion of it improves... so far, it hasn't.

[mnmsjrny]

Tours don't sell many albums. If that were the case then Styx' Cyclorama would be a platinum album.

Radio, and TV exposure sell albums...along with promo from the label - which Sony did. Radio simply didn't play it, and Perry refused to do ANY appearences with the band.

But tours do create the increase in radio & tv exposure. Tour comes to town, band gets interviewed on local radio, the new single gets played (even if only for the few days around the show), maybe a mention on the local news if the tour is significant enough, people who don't go to the show hear there's a new album out, sales go up....

It's a symbiotic thing. No ONE promotional method works by itself to push an album into the stratosphere. Radio airplay of songs will stay at the top of the exposure heap particularly due to the rigid play-lists -- if an act actually can get played in regular rotation, they've accomplished something (or their label has paid someone off). But it all feeds into the machine.

Every Friday in the SF Chronicle they list the Top 20 albums sold in the Bay Area and compare it to the national list. 90% of the Top 20 are the same locally as nationally, though often in a slightly different order, but you can always tell when a big tour has come through town because an album will suddenly appear in the Top 20 or rise from 20 to 3. I expect to see that happen this week or next with "American Idiot" as Green Day just passed through this weekend.

[mnmsjrny]

Radio played "When you love a Woman" all over the place. It was a top 20 single and was #1 on Casey Kasem's for a couple weeks. Ever since they changed the billboard single criteria, some may argue, Casey's, at that time was more legit. Of course, it depends where you are in terms of what you hear, In Detroit, they played a few cuts off TBF quite a bit.

Definitely depends on where you lived.... I heard WYLAW exactly ONCE on the radio in any time frame near the release of TBF. Now, admittedly the radio station I listen to 90% of the time rarely plays Journey (and then only "Lights" once in a blue moon) so I didn't expect to hear it on that station. I DID however tune in to the 2-3 stations I thought *might* play it. Heard it once. If I hadn't seen an article in Forbes magazine about Journey reuniting and releasing an album, it's quite possible I would have missed it entirely. (Or, more likely, stumbled upon it at random in a routine trip through Tower Records.) And this, from someone who lives in the SF Bay Area!

[ohsherrie]

One of my daughters told me they were releasing a new album or I wouldn't have known about it. In fact, she bought it for me when it came out. I heard WYLAW on the radio quite a bit here in south central VA. I only heard MOL a few times, but that's because I don't normally listen to the station it was played on. Then I heard IISBYH a time or two. They certainly didn't get the air time they did in the '80s.

[artthou]

[quote="PROPERRY"]TBF is one of my favorites Cd to listen to! I like alot of the songs on the cd , but my favorites are "Don't Be Down On Me Baby" & "When I think Of You", & "Forever In Blue".

One of the things I appreciate about Perry singing abilities is the way he can "change his singing voice to fit the song". Such as with the song, "Castles Burning". I really like the way he sings that song!

Lori[/quote]

I like TBF too. It's nice and mellow- the lyrics are more contemplative. Some of my favorite albums took me a while to warm to them. The ones I like immediately I usually tire of eventually.

[S2M]

Definitely overlooked.....better than Revelations by a mile.

[finalfight]

Definitely overlooked.....better than Revelations by a mile.

Jeepers! And you went digging for this four year old thread for what purpose exactly...?

[Rockindeano]

Nothing like discussing a 4 year old thread written by Reardon. Andrew will undoubtedly squash this.

[S2M]

Definitely overlooked.....better than Revelations by a mile.

Jeepers! And you went digging for this four year old thread for what purpose exactly...?

Cause I'm bored.....can you tell????

[finalfight]

Definitely overlooked.....better than Revelations by a mile.

Jeepers! And you went digging for this four year old thread for what purpose exactly...?

Cause I'm bored.....can you tell????

Off to the single word thread for you my friend!

[S2M]

Definitely overlooked.....better than Revelations by a mile.

Jeepers! And you went digging for this four year old thread for what purpose exactly...?

Cause I'm bored.....can you tell????

Off to the single word thread for you my friend!

LLL and I have quite the Battle Royale going on in there.....

[Michigan Girl]

Definitely overlooked.....better than Revelations by a mile.

Jeepers! And you went digging for this four year old thread for what purpose exactly...?

Cause I'm bored.....can you tell????

Jeez and you're off tomorrow, too?!?!?!