One thing Mr. Perry has ACKNOWLEDGED to the fans....

[jrnyman28]

Why are some of you conplaining so much that Perry dosen't feel he wants to give this band the time of day except to work at bringing back, by way of dvd, his time with them? What on earth do you expect? You bitch about his voice, his methodology, and his bandmates have dissed him. Why should you want his picture on Generations? You just can't stand that he and his loyal fans want nothing to do with this present Journey.

Get real Nig. The guys are loving his efforts to STILL make lots of $ for them by producing the Classic Journey dvd's.

I'm in agreement with you HOTS! Why do you all want Perry's picture on Generations??? I thought this NEW Generation cd was "all new music" from the "current line up", so I don't understand why you would want Perry's picture on generations either.

Perry's time with the band was not with this particular current line up, so what is the problem???

Lori

Lori, since you (yet again) obviously did not read the thread...let me make this clear. As Jrnyjetster pointed out already, we are not discussing a picture of Perry on the Generations CD or packaging. We are discussing footage of the HWOF ceremony that Perry attended. The footage is used as bonus material in the EPK (electronic press kit). Perry's image was "removed" from the footage. It is a crappy thing to do, no matter the reasons. Perry appeared at the HWOF and there is plenty of footage of him there (as he should have been). It is already public footage used by the press. This is a PRESS KIT, but it is being used to help 'promote' sales of "Generations". If Perry's image was removed because he did not approve it's use, that is sad because he was there and honored like everyone else. If it was removed by the band to NOT include Perry, that is sad because he was there and honored like everyone else was. Either way, It's sad. BUT, I understand why Perry would not allow the use of his image in any form of promotion for Augeri-era Journey. It is still sad...

[jrnyman28]

But I can see why he wouldn't lend his image to ANYTHING that is a part of Augeri-era Journey's promotion.

Because promoting Journey in any form helps sales of all Journey merchandise which makes everyone, including Perry, money. Think of the young people who may hear Generations, like it, and go out and buy previous Journey CDs and DVDs. I know when I first got ESC4P3, I had all the previous albums within 2 months.

Because, NiG, it is not about the money...

[NealIsGod]

But I can see why he wouldn't lend his image to ANYTHING that is a part of Augeri-era Journey's promotion.

Because promoting Journey in any form helps sales of all Journey merchandise which makes everyone, including Perry, money. Think of the young people who may hear Generations, like it, and go out and buy previous Journey CDs and DVDs. I know when I first got ESC4P3, I had all the previous albums within 2 months.

Because, NiG, it is not about the money...

Oh, no? Then why is Perry fine with Journey merchandise, such as the GH DVD and the upcoming Houston concert, having his image on it?

[heardonthestreet]

Duh!

[heardonthestreet]

Long live Classic Journey, the Steve Perry years."

[jrnyman28]

Oh, no? Then why is Perry fine with Journey merchandise, such as the GH DVD and the upcoming Houston concert, having his image on it?

Because that's all about HIM!

[jrnyman28]

Long live Classic Journey, the Steve Perry years."

Ya know, Perry doesn't even treat it as Journey...he treats it as if it is PERRY!

[heardonthestreet]

Long live Classic Journey, the Steve Perry years."

Ya know, Perry doesn't even treat it as Journey...he treats it as if it is PERRY!

......................................................

I don't see it that way. He mentions it as his years with Journey.

[PROPERRY]

Long live Classic Journey, the Steve Perry years."

Ya know, Perry doesn't even treat it as Journey...he treats it as if it is PERRY!

You know that is not true! Perry talks about it as HIS TIME of being in Journey.

Lori

[jrnyman28]

Long live Classic Journey, the Steve Perry years."

Ya know, Perry doesn't even treat it as Journey...he treats it as if it is PERRY!

......................................................

I don't see it that way. He mentions it as his years with Journey.

I meant his general attitude. ROR was obviously more about what Perry wanted. TBF was definately written to support Perry's strengths. GHL was put out with what Perry felt were HIS best performances. He didn't care the other guys sounded. And since then he has spent his time working on the things he wants to portray, leaning more to how it affects himself, not Journey. Don't get me wrong, I understand why he doesn't 'worry' about Journey 'now'. But in general, I simply feel like he is most concerned with how HE is represented. Even within Journey material.

I don't expect to agree with it, but I hope you can understand where I am coming from.

[heardonthestreet]

I guess that I have to disagree Dave, because I see all the guys at their very best in the works that Perry has been producing or getting to us. They all worked off each other and made each other shine.

[NealIsGod]

I guess that I have to disagree Dave, because I see all the guys at their very best in the works that Perry has been producing or getting to us. They all worked off each other and made each other shine.

Much like they did on Generations and the current tour.

[mnmsjrny]

We are discussing footage of the HWOF ceremony that Perry attended. The footage is used as bonus material in the EPK (electronic press kit). Perry's image was "removed" from the footage. It is a crappy thing to do, no matter the reasons. Perry appeared at the HWOF and there is plenty of footage of him there (as he should have been). It is already public footage used by the press. This is a PRESS KIT, but it is being used to help 'promote' sales of "Generations". If Perry's image was removed because he did not approve it's use, that is sad because he was there and honored like everyone else. If it was removed by the band to NOT include Perry, that is sad because he was there and honored like everyone else was. Either way, It's sad. BUT, I understand why Perry would not allow the use of his image in any form of promotion for Augeri-era Journey. It is still sad...

The only problem I have with this argument is that the band has been showing footage of Perry at their concerts all summer. From videos straight on through the WOF footage in the Journeyville video. It's quite puzzling that his image would be blurred out of the EPK for legal/promotional reasons yet still be shown all over the place at Journey concerts. (Which, I admit, was REALLY weird the first time I saw it.) Far more people are likely to see that footage than the EPK. Presumably, everyone agreed to the Journeyville video so, why would anyone remove Perry's image from the EPK at this point??

Perhaps there's a third possibility that we're not coming up with?? Can't think of what it would be myself, but it does seem strange....

[The_Noble_Cause]

The only problem I have with this argument is that the band has been showing footage of Perry at their concerts all summer. From videos straight on through the WOF footage in the Journeyville video.

The footage at the concert I saw (played during 'Every Generation') showed Jon, Neal and then some fans. No Perry.

[NealIsGod]

Journeyville consisted of the motorcycle and three very non-communicative people behind a table "selling" raffle tickets when I saw them. What a joke.

[NoMoreTails]

The only problem I have with this argument is that the band has been showing footage of Perry at their concerts all summer. From videos straight on through the WOF footage in the Journeyville video.

The footage at the concert I saw (played during 'Every Generation') showed Jon, Neal and then some fans. No Perry.

I thought that maybe since all the Perry era videos were shown on the Journeyville video, it was probably the band's decision to omit any footage of Perry and Smitty,etc from the Every Generation footage, it makes since only to show the guys that are still in the band.
The old videos used in the Journeyville presentation is copyrighted by Columbia or Nightmare or both, and can be used with their permission, not Perry's, I assume. Perry may have been fine with them using the videos and WOF footage at Journeyville as it would remind people of him (yes, Perry-heads, some of the world know the name Journey and not Perry), but had a problem with it being included on Generations. ???

[yak]

Please don't twist this around....we are NOT talking about Perry being on the CD cover itself, but rather the video clip of the Hollywood WOF ceremony (which he was very much a part of) on the EPK. That's just silly what he did....plain and simple!

Silly? No.

Arrogant, pompous-assed, selfish, stupid, whiny, babyish, spiteful, and oh so typical?


A resounding YES!

Perhaps he enjoys being a malevolent man.


(Remember, this is a guy who delighted in receiving a Teddy Ruxpin doll/bear at his what? His 40th birthday? Anybody recall the photo in an old Force issue? He also loved getting toys on stage from fans.)

Personally, I don't ever want to see Perry connected with Journey ever again, because he would arrive on the scene, only to put the bike in park again. And because Steve Augeri fills the bill quite nicely.

I think that's why Steve may be feeling what he does on more of an emotional rather than business level.

You can't think for "Steve," since you don't even know him.

You can't be a competent judge of anything and can't use your business acumen if you let your emotions get in the way. Truth be told, he likely has no voice left; he certainly has no desire to be associated with Journey, but can't be a man and let go, because he would rather stick around and make snide remarks.

The truth be told, if Perry toured today, he'd be even worse off than he was in his SM tour, which wasn't a sellout. The tour was supposed to advertise his new SM album, but Perry's solo tour did nothing for his solo CD sales either. His bleak and downright depressing CD tanked despite playing the new songs in his solo concert. When his tour was advertised on radio, it was along with a Journey song playing, and it was advertised as "Steve Perry of Journey." So if anything, he used the same tactics to advertise his solo tour, as Perrypiles are accusing Journey of doing.

No, you're confusing Generations with Trial By Fire.

Why do you all want Perry's picture on Generations???

We don't. Promise to learn to read, would you?

Long live Classic Journey, the Steve Perry years."

Have much fun living it up in the past.

The footage at the concert I saw (played during 'Every Generation') showed Jon, Neal and then some fans. No Perry.

I don't recall that either.

Perry may have been fine with them using the videos and WOF footage at Journeyville as it would remind people of him (yes, Perry-heads, some of the world know the name Journey and not Perry),

Good point.

[jrnyman28]

The "Journeyville" footage was played over the stage before the show in Denver. It included Perry and some of his speech. MNM is right that there was no problem then. But I can;'t help but think it has to do DIRECTLY with selling retail product promoting Journey without Perry.

[ohsherrie]

The "Journeyville" footage was played over the stage before the show in Denver. It included Perry and some of his speech. MNM is right that there was no problem then. But I can;'t help but think it has to do DIRECTLY with selling retail product promoting Journey without Perry.

I think you're right about that Dave. It's one thing to acknowledge his work, it's another alltogether to use his image to promote something with which he doesn't want to be associated(for whatever reasons). Even though I think the obscruring of his image in the WOF thing is silly I can understand it, whether it was a legality or a personal decision.

[Marabelle]

when he makes up his mind about most things; he has made up his mind and no matter what you say or do he will not change it...so if he doesn't want his picture being displayed in a certain manner at a certain place for a certain reason; then he is not going to have it displayed. you cannot
convince him otherwise. it just seems when he feels someone has done
something to slight him; he will not back down. that is just the way it is.
it's not about the money. it's about his pride and you are not going to get any where if you ever hurt his pride; offend, embarass, humiliate or criticize him in any fashion. if you do; then you should probably figure you will not never be able to get in his good graces ever again. it's tunnel vision but it works for him. he doesn't need you; he doesn't want you and he can do without you just fine. nothing shallow about that; it's just the way it is and if you can't live with it; well it's just your problem. that's just what i think.

[The_Noble_Cause]

when he makes up his mind about most things; he has made up his mind and no matter what you say or do he will not change it

Precisely!
And that's why back in 2001 (on BTM) when he said "he thinks about touring all the time" he truly stuck to his guns and followed thru on every word!

[Argus]

when he makes up his mind about most things; he has made up his mind and no matter what you say or do he will not change it...so if he doesn't want his picture being displayed in a certain manner at a certain place for a certain reason; then he is not going to have it displayed. you cannot
convince him otherwise. it just seems when he feels someone has done
something to slight him; he will not back down. that is just the way it is.
it's not about the money. it's about his pride and you are not going to get any where if you ever hurt his pride; offend, embarass, humiliate or criticize him in any fashion. if you do; then you should probably figure you will not never be able to get in his good graces ever again. it's tunnel vision but it works for him. he doesn't need you; he doesn't want you and he can do without you just fine. nothing shallow about that; it's just the way it is and if you can't live with it; well it's just your problem. that's just what i think.

no wonder he doesn't read the internet or have an official site.

[Marabelle]

yes. thinking and doing are two very different things.

but i'm not here to debate. just my feelings. he's precise in his own way

to himself; you just never came into the equation. He seems to answer

for himself not for anyone else. that's what i guess. but your guess is as

good as mine.

[ohsherrie]

It think there's something to what Marabelle's saying. It seems as if it's a matter of principle and integrity to him. I can't fault him for that.

As for the videos you're all talking about, I've never heard of Journeyville, but I have a theory about that third possiblity that mnmsjrny mentioned. Do you all remember when the release of the Houston DVD was postponed last year? There was a statement made somewhere, maybe by JDK, that there were some matters on which they were having trouble reaching an agreement with the band. Maybe matters of which footage and whose images can be used where and in what way came into play then. You know the band had to have been in at least the planning stages for their production then.

The blurring of Steve's face in the WOF footage probably did more to accentuate the issue than to keep him out of it. Anyone who would recognize him in the footage will know whose face is blurred and why anyway.

[jrnyman28]

that's why back in 2001 (on BTM) when he said "he thinks about touring all the time" he truly stuck to his guns and followed thru on every word!

You need to include the rest of the quote to be fair. He said it's something he thinks about and tries not to think about all the time.

[mnmsjrny]

As for the videos you're all talking about, I've never heard of Journeyville, but I have a theory about that third possiblity that mnmsjrny mentioned. Do you all remember when the release of the Houston DVD was postponed last year? There was a statement made somewhere, maybe by JDK, that there were some matters on which they were having trouble reaching an agreement with the band. Maybe matters of which footage and whose images can be used where and in what way came into play then. You know the band had to have been in at least the planning stages for their production then.

Journeyville was a section they had at most of the shows this tour that had the motorcycle raffle, R&R Hall of Fame petition, and a flat screen TV that had a 60-minute loop of video footage of the band over the years -- from Infinity-era videos straight through to the WOF footage.

And I don't think the Houston DVD is the negotiation for this. The guys filmed for a DVD in Dallas -- I think that was the negotiation point. Release Houston, get to release something current.

The old videos used in the Journeyville presentation is copyrighted by Columbia or Nightmare or both, and can be used with their permission, not Perry's, I assume. Perry may have been fine with them using the videos and WOF footage at Journeyville as it would remind people of him (yes, Perry-heads, some of the world know the name Journey and not Perry), but had a problem with it being included on Generations. ???

The videos may be a mutual property, but NOT the WOF footage. That was shot at JPP by one of our committee members. I don't think Emerson signed over the rights to it when he put that part together for the band.

[ohsherrie]

The guys filmed for a DVD in Dallas -- I think that was the negotiation point. Release Houston, get to release something current.

Are you saying the band wouldn't agree to the release of the Houston unless someone agreed to the release of their Dallas video? Respectfully mnmsjrny, they have already released the 2001 video so I don't see why the Dallas would have been an issue? Just curious.

[jrnyman28]

The guys filmed for a DVD in Dallas -- I think that was the negotiation point. Release Houston, get to release something current.

Are you saying the band wouldn't agree to the release of the Houston unless someone agreed to the release of their Dallas video? Respectfully mnmsjrny, they have already released the 2001 video so I don't see why the Dallas would have been an issue? Just curious.

Well, we all know that the 2001 DVD was a one-time only agreement between Perry and Journey. Herbie said the guys gave away almost everything to continue as Journey. And it was a special agreement between them and Perry to allow the 2001 DVD release in return for special considerations with the BTM show.

Now that the band want to release a NEW dvd with material from Perry-era Journey being sung by Augeri, there appears to be a need for a new agreement. Compromise is/will be a big thing for Journey and Perry from here on out. And according to Jeremey from "Frontiers", any video representation of Perry-era footage (original OR re-recorded with Augeri on vocals) MUST have the approval of Perry. It has something to do with the visual representation of Perry-era material. Perry has rights to any representation of any material he was involved with.

[The_Noble_Cause]

that's why back in 2001 (on BTM) when he said "he thinks about touring all the time" he truly stuck to his guns and followed thru on every word!

You need to include the rest of the quote to be fair.

No I don't. To hell with you and your diplomatic, "let's all hold hands, sing kumbaya and share a peace pipe" approach- fairness gets us nowhere.
Haven't u learned that after all these years of circular bickering?
Besides, I am not wrong in characterizing Perry as indicating he was gonna actually do something. The narrator goes on to insinuate (something along the lines) that fans can expect to hear something very soon from Perry and then Perry looks into the camera and says "there has been talks".

[jrnyman28]

No I don't. To hell with you and your diplomatic, "let's all hold hands, sing kumbaya and share a peace pipe" approach- fairness gets us nowhere.

Well, it is not just about being fair. It COMPLETELY changes the point to his quote. His quote shows that he is conflicted about touring! CONFLICTED!! You make it sound like he actually WANTS to tour. He doesn't want to or not want to...he is conflicted...

BTW, fairness gets you some respect. And that is worth a lot. YOU may feel anonymous on this board, but I represent the real me on here. My conversations here MEAN something to me, so I appreciate what others have to say, or how others feel. And I would expect the same from them. Most of the time it works, or at least it works enough for me. Your anonymity affords you to not care...that just doesn't work for me.

Besides, I am not wrong in characterizing Perry as indicating he was gonna actually do something.

Using THAT quote you ARE.

The narrator goes on to insinuate (something along the lines) that fans can expect to hear something very soon from Perry and then Perry looks into the camera and says "there has been talks".

But, as usual, Perry neither confirms nor denies the implications. Insinuations and implications make good TV...that's the narrator's job!