What Would've Happened.....

by **Greg** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:35 am

........If Kevin Calfant had joined Journey instead of Steve Augeri? Would we have had as much division amongst the ranks of Journey fans, past and present? I remember some of the members of the former Journey Digest wishing and hoping for Kevin Calfant to be the next Journey lead singer. Of course, obvious reasons - straight up Perry Clone! Still.....I wonder how things would have been?

However, the real question would have been ---- what if Geoff Tate had joined Journey? That would have been weeeeiiirrrddd!!!!!

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:48 am

Greggie wrote:........If Kevin Calfant had joined Journey instead of Steve Augeri? Would we have had as much division amongst the ranks of Journey fans, past and present?

The Perryloons would riot regardless of who defied their idol's wishes and dared try to replace him. However, I think for many hardcore Journey fans the switch would've been much more digestable. I recall running into some Journey fans in Deleware (in the front row during the Detour tour). They said as good as Augeri is, deep down they wished for Chalfant.

Greggie wrote:I remember some of the members of the former Journey Digest wishing and hoping for Kevin Calfant to be the next Journey lead singer. Of course,

The Journey digest contends that Chalfant belts the notes out in a way that sadly puts Augeri to shame. I am not so sure of this. At one time I might have agreed, but after this past tour I really can't imagine anyone surpassing Augeri's performance.

Greggie wrote:obvious reasons - straight up Perry Clone!

Lyrically and vocally speaking, he is more like Perry. However, I don't think Augeri or Chalfant particularly bear any physical resemblance to Steve P.
Augeri is a unique writing talent. Tall Stories and Shine sound different from Journey but are good in their own way. Two Fires sounds like Journey and in many cases seems to be trying way too hard to actually BE Journey. In that respect, Augeri was a more brazen, unconventional choice, however, so far I am dissapointed by his writing contributions. Only "Better Together' shows discernible influences of Tall Stories and Shine. I just don't think he has so far gelled with the band. Certain tracks like "Beyond the Clouds" noticeably show Augeri's influence and hint at greatness. However, time is running short for them to find their niche.

by **Hippie** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:56 am

what if Geoff Tate had joined Journey?

That would've crashed and burned! Nothing against Tate! But that would be akin to Gary Sherone taking over lead in REO Speedwagon. Wrong voice!

by **Greg** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:56 am

Yeah, I was thinking Perry Clone by vocals.....certainly not looks! LOL! I have a Two Fires cd....I actually haven't listened to it in awhile. It's pretty good....except it's just a bit....well...I can't think of the right words...I don't think it's chessey but maybe you know what I'm talking about it.

I also heard Hugo would have been a fan favorite as well.....all in all...heck...Jeremy would have made a great fit in Journey (he's and excellent singer and the closest I've heard to Perry's voice out of everybody and that is saying alot...) But, I think you're right...I think Journey did want someone who could cover the classics well, and someone who wasn't exactly a Perry Clone! Although, I remember the VH1 specials talking about how he looked and sounded like Steve Perry. At first, I was like, "Yeah you're right!" But now, it sounds like he's kind of came into his own...he sounds more like Augeri now..which isn't a bad thing!

by **Greg** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:57 am

Hippie wrote:
what if Geoff Tate had joined Journey?

That would've crashed and burned! Nothing against Tate! But that would be akin to Gary Sherone taking over lead in REO Speedwagon. Wrong voice!

Yeah, I just can't even begin to imagine!

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:02 pm

Greggie wrote:I also heard Hugo would have been a fan favorite as well

Nothing against the guy, but I shudder at the thought of Hugo in the band. Hugo's voice is so thin. Listen to soundbytes on his website. He can't hit Journey's notes.

Greggie wrote:IJeremy would have made a great fit in Journey (he's and excellent singer and the closest I've heard to Perry's voice out of everybody and that is saying alot.

Yeah, Jeremy is a whole 'nother story. Now that guy is the real deal.

by **jrnyman28** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:55 pm

I think if Kevin and the pre-TBF reunion had taken place than the transition would have been easy. If Steve had come in before the TBF reunion I still think the transition would have been easy. I think it is the fact that Perry "returned" and was then "left behind" that torques the Perry fans off.

by **cubby69** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:22 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:I think if Kevin and the pre-TBF reunion had taken place than the transition would have been easy. If Steve had come in before the TBF reunion I still think the transition would have been easy. I think it is the fact that Perry "returned" and was then "left behind" that torques the Perry fans off.

It would have also been easier transition with Rolie coming back to the fold and having another original member back. Not to mention the incredible sound of having both him and Cain on keys and piano....

by **Monker** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:40 pm

Greggie wrote:........If Kevin Calfant had joined Journey instead of Steve Augeri? Would we have had as much division amongst the ranks of Journey fans, past and present?

It would not have changed a single thing. When the "rumor" broke that KC was to join Journey, the same things were being said about him as are said about Augeri: That he was a Perry clone, that he was trying to even LOOK like Steve Perry...I'm sure that in time they would have said, "Hmmm, 'SP', "KC", it rhymes!"

by **Monker** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:43 pm

Greggie wrote:Yeah, I was thinking Perry Clone by vocals.....certainly not looks! LOL!

That's not what was said. I have a video of a Storm, which I sent out to a bunch of Journey fans. Many replied back that he was trying to LOOK like Steve Perry.

I don't think it's chessey but maybe you know what I'm talking about it.

It has too many songs about "love and loss". There are other topics that can make a good song. That's my only complaint about that CD.

by **Monker** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:46 pm

jrnyman28 wrote:I think if Kevin and the pre-TBF reunion had taken place than the transition would have been easy. If Steve had come in before the TBF reunion I still think the transition would have been easy. I think it is the fact that Perry "returned" and was then "left behind" that torques the Perry fans off.

Nope. Believe me, there were HUGE arguments when I was promoting the idea of KC replacing Perry. To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

by **Monker** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:51 pm

cubby69 wrote:
jrnyman28 wrote:I think if Kevin and the pre-TBF reunion had taken place than the transition would have been easy. If Steve had come in before the TBF reunion I still think the transition would have been easy. I think it is the fact that Perry "returned" and was then "left behind" that torques the Perry fans off.

It would have also been easier transition with Rolie coming back to the fold and having another original member back. Not to mention the incredible sound of having both him and Cain on keys and piano....

All you have to do is listen to what OhSherrie says about how she hears Journey. The main focus of some people are the vocals. It doesn't matter how many 'original' members are back, the member they were focusing on is replaced and therefore what remains is unexceptable. The musicians 'behind' the singer are secondary. At least that is how I see their perspective.

by **ohsherrie** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:12 pm

Monker wrote:All you have to do is listen to what OhSherrie says about how she hears Journey. The main focus of some people are the vocals. It doesn't matter how many 'original' members are back, the member they were focusing on is replaced and therefore what remains is unexceptable. The musicians 'behind' the singer are secondary. At least that is how I see their perspective.

That's pretty much it Monker. The only thing I would say differently is that even though the musicians are secondary to the vocals for me, it's not as if they aren't integral to the Journey sound that I love.

The only time in Journey's history that I think they could have replaced Steve without quite so much resentment from some of us was before Escape. When Rollie left and they made some changes in their style and sound with Jon, they could probably have gotten away with it a little easier. Even though Steve's vocals were extraordinary on the first three albums, Escape was the starmaker. Frontiers and ROR sealed the deal indelibly.

I agree that Jeremy would have been a great replacement. His voice has the substance to pull it off.

by **NoMoreTails** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:08 pm

I think the choice came down to chemistry. They knew they'd get along well with Augeri. I think Neal commented at one point about lack of writing chemistry with Chalfont, and I believe Herbie went so far as to compare him to Perry as far as being difficult to get along. I think they knew that Augeri would improve as well, as he had not sang for some time.
I believe that the easier times to replace Perry would have been between Frontiers and ROR, or after ROR. He really had no interest in being in Journey any longer, and it should have been obvious to even the hardcore Perry fans, even the ones who have trouble believing he had no intention of ever coming back to Journey after TBF. He has said he only returned because his mother was pushing him to do so. Of course he could possibly have played victim in 84 or 87 as he does now.
Many bands replaced well known singers in those days and still did well. Many would have been disappointed that Perry was gone, and many of us would have been glad to have Journey-the rock band back instead of Journey- the Perry back up band.
Perry fans would have possibly still had solo Perry which should have suited them fine as they have little appreciation for the band Journey. They should have listened to Herbie...

by **Red13JoePa** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:04 am

In answer to the topic, it woulda been good. You would've had the founder and centerpiece of the band Neal Schon, keyboardist and key Schon writing ally/collaborator Jon Cain, and Journey Bassists Ross Valory. That is rather a good foundation. Who was the drummer in that planned incarnation, Smitty?

Hindsight being what it is, 20-20, Schon and Cain made the right call in replacing Steve w/ Steve and Steve w/ Deen. What a rocking band it is now.

by **NoMoreTails** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:48 am

Red13JoePa wrote:In answer to the topic, it woulda been good. You would've had the founder and centerpiece of the band Neal Schon, keyboardist and key Schon writing ally/collaborator Jon Cain, and Journey Bassists Ross Valory. That is rather a good foundation. Who was the drummer in that planned incarnation, Smitty?

Hindsight being what it is, 20-20, Schon and Cain made the right call in replacing Steve w/ Steve and Steve w/ Deen. What a rocking band it is now.

I agree, it would have worked. I wonder if Deen would have still ended up being the drummer, I don't recall any discussion of who it would have been. Smitty is doubtful in light of his comments about being interested in a one time only reunion with Perry.
But I'm glad things went down as they did as Augeri has become my favorite singer.

by **ohsherrie** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:55 am

NoMoreTails wrote:I believe that the easier times to replace Perry would have been between Frontiers and ROR, or after ROR. He really had no interest in being in Journey any longer, and it should have been obvious to even the hardcore Perry fans,

Yeah, it would have been easier to understand why he wasn't there, but it wouldn't have made it easier to accept a band named Journey that didn't have him. I think there would still be the same basic division of the existing fan base. Both the band and Steve may have had more of a chance of building new separate fan bases at the time.

by **perryfaithful** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:56 am

Monker wrote: To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

by **SuiteMadameBlue** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:01 am

Monker wrote:

To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

I totally agree with this quote regarding some of the Perry fans. And it also sounds very familiar with another very popular band :wink:

by **NoMoreTails** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:09 am

ohsherrie wrote:Yeah, it would have been easier to understand why he wasn't there, but it wouldn't have made it easier to accept a band named Journey that didn't have him. I think there would still be the same basic division of the existing fan base. Both the band and Steve may have had more of a chance of building new separate fan bases at the time.

You're probaby right about the Perry-only fans. It may be true that the hardcore fans would have been divided but I feel that during the 80s they could have replaced Perry and still put out platinum albums. I don't think the overall backlash of replacing Perry would have resulted in any more disappointment among casual fans than the release of ROR did.

by **ohsherrie** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:23 am

NoMoreTails wrote:You're probaby right about the Perry-only fans. It may be true that the hardcore fans would have been divided but I feel that during the 80s they could have replaced Perry and still put out platinum albums. I don't think the overall backlash of replacing Perry would have resulted in any more disappointment among casual fans than the release of ROR did.

They certainly would have had a better chance because they were still a big name band at that time and their style of music was more popular. I'm not sure the casual fans were all that disappointed in ROR though. I think it was more the harder edged rock fans that didn't like it.

by **NoMoreTails** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:39 am

ohsherrie wrote:
I'm not sure the casual fans were all that disappointed in ROR though. I think it was more the harder edged rock fans that didn't like it.

My statement is based on the distaste my teenage friends at the time had for ROR. They liked Journey to that point, but were not hardcore. After that it became almost embarassing to tell people you liked Journey, glad the rock band is back now.
I do feel that the slip in sales from Escape and Frontiers supports my opinion on the casual fans disappointment with ROR.

by **NealIsGod** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:53 am

NoMoreTails wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
I'm not sure the casual fans were all that disappointed in ROR though. I think it was more the harder edged rock fans that didn't like it.

My statement is based on the distaste my teenage friends at the time had for ROR. They liked Journey to that point, but were not hardcore. After that it became almost embarassing to tell people you liked Journey, glad the rock band is back now.

Boy, I can relate to that! I was a freshman in college when ROR came out, and very into the whole rock look and scene - my 'fro was almost as big as Schon's! When ROR came out, I was embarassed to EVER play it in my dorm room, even though it was my favorite group of all time. Plus I only like a few songs from it, anyway.

by **heardonthestreet** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:07 am

perryfaithful wrote:
Monker wrote: To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

[/quote

.................................................................

by **Monker** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:12 am

Boy, I can relate to that! I was a freshman in college when ROR came out, and very into the whole rock look and scene - my 'fro was almost as big as Schon's! When ROR came out, I was embarassed to EVER play it in my dorm room, even though it was my favorite group of all time. Plus I only like a few songs from it, anyway.

Yep...

And, I've told this story before too.

I was a senior in high school when ROR came out. I remember buying it the day it came out, on cassette, and listening to it in a friends car. At the end, he took it out, handed me the cassette and said, "That's too bad. Steve Perry did the same to Journey as Dennis DeYoung did to Styx."

by **Monker** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:14 am

heardonthestreet wrote:
perryfaithful wrote:
Monker wrote: To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

[/quote

.................................................................

You know what I think is funny?

I had that impression long before anybody on this forum knew who I was.

by **The_Noble_Cause** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:41 am

perryfaithful wrote:
Monker wrote: To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

heardonthestreet wrote::D

wtf?
Am I the only one at a loss for why the 'Loons are now coming out in droves to innundate this thread with inexplicable smiley faces?
You people are deranged.

by **NealIsGod** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:51 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:wtf?
Am I the only one at a loss for why the 'Loons are now coming out in droves to innundate this thread with inexplicable smiley faces?

They do it to get reactions like the one you gave them.

by **ohsherrie** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:29 am

Monker wrote:
heardonthestreet wrote:
perryfaithful wrote:
Monker wrote: To some Perry fans, he is irreplacable no matter the person OR the circumstance.

[/quote

.................................................................

You know what I think is funny?

I had that impression long before anybody on this forum knew who I was.

I don't get what you're saying Monker.

Hey guys, maybe HOTS and PF are just expressing their opinions without running the risk of saying something that can piss someone off.

by **yak** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:41 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:wtf?
Am I the only one at a loss for why the 'Loons are now coming out in droves to innundate this thread with inexplicable smiley faces?
You people are deranged.

Give the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants an inch, and they'll take a yard. They seem to forget that Perry produced ROR, thus making it sound like a Perrysolo album. That was likely his motive for producing. I don't believe only hard core fans didn't like it. It was a non-rocker, that's why it wasn't well received. It was as mundane as the Strange Medicine CD. I once read that Perry's favorite tune from ROR was Happy To Give.

MR

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