Use Your Imagination

[The_Noble_Cause]

WHATEVER!! TNC. I'm really not up for a fight.

Err...I'm not fighting or selectively picking on you.
You're laying down your points and I am cogently refuting them.
That's the way it works around here.
If you somehow feel like you are undergoing a cyber smackdown, I kindly suggest you put up a better defense.

[ohsherrie]

I like Butterfly. It doesn't sound at all like Journey as I know it, but it sounds good. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't have been on this cd. I think a lot of people will like it. I haven't heard Believe.

STOP! I am in the process of burning you a cd, and you already have it? Someone needs a spankin.'

No Sugar, I've heard three songs that the Jetster sent me. Butterflies, A Place In Your Heart and A Better Life.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I frankly don't like his voice all that much, except when he goes down to that register.

Augeri has utilized the lower register maybe 4-5 times at most during his stint with Journey.
You must really not care for the majority of what this lineup has released so far.
It's mainly been Augeri singing in his high range.

I think he has a great voice. Be it low range, high range...etc.

[Rockindeano]

No, I don't like ANYTHING they have put out since 2000..Nothing..



I just simply stated, IN MY OPINION, his voice just gets thin for me when he goes higher, thats all. And if we MUST compare and contrast to "the other guy," the other guy just sounded so much stronger, be it higher or lower. This is NOT to be intended as an argument or a choice. Augeri is definately a Hell of a singer, and it takes pipes to sing Journey songs..Yes, he obviously belongs.

[The_Noble_Cause]

No, I don't like ANYTHING they have put out since 2000..Nothing..

For a second there, that was the impression you were conveying

I just simply stated, IN MY OPINION, his voice just gets thin for me when he goes higher, thats all.

No, you stated that you didn't like his voice very much except when he sings in his low register. Considering that an overwhelming majority of Journey's catalog (both old and new) is sung in a high register, I had no choice but to assume that you really didn't care all that much for anything they've put out.
Glad you clarified what you meant.

Augeri is definately a Hell of a singer, and it takes pipes to sing Journey songs..Yes, he obviously belongs.

I still think Chalfant prolly would've been better, but yeah, Augeri is a great talent, too. I only wish "Believe" didn't suck so much.

[Rockindeano]

You forgot option d).
Jon and Neal actually like the songs.
I know it sounds really far-fetched, but it's still a possibility.

I don't think Neal gave a damn or not. he was doing his own thing. Hell, he wasn't even around for mixing. They threw In Self-Defense on there too..that to me is just lazy, or a pressed for time decision

[The_Noble_Cause]

You forgot option d).
Jon and Neal actually like the songs.
I know it sounds really far-fetched, but it's still a possibility.

I don't think Neal gave a damn or not. he was doing his own thing. Hell, he wasn't even around for mixing. They threw In Self-Defense on there too..that to me is just lazy, or a pressed for time decision

Yeah we discussed this once before. Anytime a cover song is invoked, it immediately reeks of creative slothfulness. But you know what? Everyone was singing a tune and it was written with the intent to be on a Journey album someday anyhow. Maybe it just made logical sense at the time to slap it on there. I do agree though that Neal is neglecting his baby.

[Rockindeano]

I do agree though that Neal is neglecting his baby.

I love the guy. Hell, I told him as much to his face last week...but we can be constructively critical...

Neglecting his baby..yeah...I would love to see his face when that Journey income is no more..

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neglecting his baby..yeah...I would love to see his face when that Journey income is no more..

See, the thing is..Journey income will flow in regardless if he neglects it or pays fastidious attention to it. The income comes from the yearly touring profits. Neal doesn't have to do shit for those to remain profitable. They will always be profitable. People want to hear that dirty dozen and likely always will!
So, as far as Neal is concerned, Journey will take care of itself (classic radio will keep their touring profits steady) and he is free to do stuff like Soul Sirkus which at least has some chance of getting airplay, whereas Journey seemingly has none. Other than having to rehearse with guys prior to tours, Journey will take care of itself. Neal doesn't have to attend to it or give it maintenance. The tours will always keep the hay steadily rolling in. However, as far as investing the time and creative energy into making new Journey music, I bet Neal doesn't really care. I mean, should he? He's doesn't stand to get rich from releasing new albums, and hey, fuck it, they can't get on the radio.

[ohsherrie]

For goodness sake TNC, are you just trying to start a fight with anyone who come along?

(Have you tried valerian root?)

We don't want to fight here.

[Rockindeano]

However, as far as investing the time and creative energy into making new Journey music, I bet Neal doesn't really care. I mean, should he?

Yeah he should, and I am sure he does too. He brought two guys in and he owes them the dignity of putting out quality tunes..after all, they kept the cash flowing in via tours. Plus, Neal has class. He has peers. If he put out shit, he would be looked at as a classic cash in...like VH last year. THAT was embarrassing. The tour sucked, and the "new" cd had 3 new crappy tunes on it, thrown on with another GH package. Journey has more class than VH, and that is fact. IMO, directly attributed to the Band personnel.

[The_Noble_Cause]

For goodness sake TNC, are you just trying to start a fight with anyone who come along?

No. I'm not. In fact, I think Deano or Dave would agree with the majority of what I just stated above. I am just saying the way it is.
Doesn't mean I agree with it or even like it.

We don't want to fight here.

Seriously, I am just neutrally discussing Journey here.
Am I coming off more hostile than usual?
If so, I apologise.

[ohsherrie]

Seriously, I am just neutrally discussing Journey here.
Am I coming off more hostile than usual?
If so, I apologise.

No need to apologize TNC. I guess I was just reading you wrong.

[Rockindeano]

Everything is fine..Very calm as a matter of fact.

Where is my medal for behaving?

[ohsherrie]

Everything is fine..Very calm as a matter of fact.

Where is my medal for behaving?

OH Sugar, you get more than a medal.

[perryfaithful]

First off, Augeri is using his low range for effect, not out of desperation. Perry had no choice but to sing everything in a muted Louie Armstrong-esque growl

Oh c'mon TNC, that's an unnecessarily low blow. We've heard so many cracks about Steve Perry not being able to hit the high notes that PF's comment is completely understandable.

Thanks Osherrie! You got it!

[The_Noble_Cause]

First off, Augeri is using his low range for effect, not out of desperation. Perry had no choice but to sing everything in a muted Louie Armstrong-esque growl

Oh c'mon TNC, that's an unnecessarily low blow. We've heard so many cracks about Steve Perry not being able to hit the high notes that PF's comment is completely understandable.

Thanks Osherrie! You got it!

No, she didn't.
There was nothing to *get*.
Your post had no point.
Augeri currently utilizes his low range when he wants to.
Perry was utilizing it because he had no other choice.
BIG difference there, lady.

[heardonthestreet]

It's a known fact that Augeri's voice often goes flat when he attempts to prolong a note, no matter the register. You'll notice it often on Generations. It gives his voice a rather lifeless quality.

[OpeningAct]

Everything is fine..Very calm as a matter of fact.

Where is my medal for behaving?

Golfers clap for following the rules.....

[yak]

We don't want to fight here.

Actions will speak louder than words. And only time will tell.

OH Sugar, you get more than a medal.

Just curious...What exactly did you have in mind for Deano? Getting sleepy from all the valerian you took, ohsherrie? Trying to get other people sleepy along with you?

No, she didn't.
There was nothing to *get*.
Your post had no point.
Augeri currently utilizes his low range when he wants to.
Perry was utilizing it because he had no other choice.
BIG difference there, lady.

VERY big difference. Her posts never have a point.

I's a known fact that Augeri's voice often goes flat when he attempts to prolong a note, no matter the register. You'll notice it often on Generations. It gives his voice a rather lifeless quality.

You know nothing of what you speak! You have obviously NOT heard Gens. Steve is not the clone you thought you could expect. He has a voice all his own, and it's a great rock voice. Perry was a crooner. Steve is a rocker. Steve's voice fits Gens perfectly.

[ohsherrie]

TNC

I'm asking this just for the sake of discussion, not to argue. Let's say the current lineup had toured and recorded continuously for it's first four years the way Journey did from '79 thru '83. If the constant vocal strain had changed Steve Augeri's voice the way it did Steve Perry's, would you think he should be replaced for someone who can hit the high notes?

Again guys, this is just a hypothetical discussion.

[heardonthestreet]

Augeri's voice fits Gens perfectly. Gens is a flop. What does that tell you?

[yak]

[NoMoreTails]

TNC

I'm asking this just for the sake of discussion, not to argue. Let's say the current lineup had toured and recorded continuously for it's first four years the way Journey did from '79 thru '83. If the constant vocal strain had changed Steve Augeri's voice the way it did Steve Perry's, would you think he should be replaced for someone who can hit the high notes?

Again guys, this is just a hypothetical discussion.

Not TNC, I didn't catch what brought up the hypothethical, but I would like to say I wouldn't think so, no one could realistically be expected to do the number of shows Perry did during that time and not have their voice be affected to some extent. It would not be fair to work a band member to that extent and then ditch him.
Not hypothetical now, but with Perry it was sometime in 77 to mid-84 I think. So you're talking 6-7 years. And I don't see Journey being unfair to their singer, they never have so far, as Steve Perry was never replaced because of ability, but because of disinterest in continuing.

[ohsherrie]

Not TNC, I didn't catch what brought up the hypothethical, but I would like to say I wouldn't think so, no one could realistically be expected to do the number of shows Perry did during that time and not have their voice be affected to some extent. It would not be fair to work a band member to that extent and then ditch him.
Not hypothetical now, but with Perry it was sometime in 77 to mid-84 I think. So you're talking 6-7 years. And I don't see Journey being unfair to their singer, they never have so far, as Steve Perry was never replaced because of ability, but because of disinterest in continuing.

Oh, I know that had nothing to do with the band's decision. This has nothing to do with that. The hypothetical came about because of a discussion PF and TNC were having about Augeri and Perry using their lower vocal ranges. Several people on the board have said in various threads that Augeri is better suited for singing Journey music now because he has a higher range, and that Perry doesn't sound as good anymore because he seems to have lost his. I was just wondering how those people would feel if Augeri lost his range. I'm sure the band wouldn't turn on him, but would those fans that no longer like Perry's voice be that loyal?

[NoMoreTails]

Oh, I know that had nothing to do with the band's decision. This has nothing to do with that. The hypothetical came about because of a discussion PF and TNC were having about Augeri and Perry using their lower vocal ranges. Several people on the board have said in various threads that Augeri is better suited for singing Journey music now because he has a higher range, and that Perry doesn't sound as good anymore because he seems to have lost his. I was just wondering how those people would feel if Augeri lost his range. I'm sure the band wouldn't turn on him, but would those fans that no longer like Perry's voice be that loyal?

I see, I had skimmed over some of the posts and noticed that Deano said something about not caring for Augeri's higher register. I disagree, I like his higher voice more than the lower one generally. I thought was cool on
Kiss Me Softly but on Tall Stories, I thought it sounded less natural than the higher stuff. I also disagree with him that it sounds thin. I would say that about Hugo and Deen but not SA.
I don't know about the true fans, when Perry sang lower, I was just glad that Journey was together at all, and understood that age and wear and tear would have to affect a voice of that type. I don't think the general audiences going to shows would be forgiving if that happened to SA. And they may not have been forgiving of SP either, if the TBF tour had happened. Most concert goers aren't going to give consideration to what factors may affect a singer over the years, or even from one night to another. They compare Augeri, and would compare Perry as well, to the studio recordings.

[The_Noble_Cause]

TNC
I'm asking this just for the sake of discussion, not to argue. Let's say the current lineup had toured and recorded continuously for it's first four years the way Journey did from '79 thru '83. If the constant vocal strain had changed Steve Augeri's voice the way it did Steve Perry's, would you think he should be replaced for someone who can hit the high notes?
Again guys, this is just a hypothetical discussion.

Perhaps.
But, it's really a moot comparison.
Perry wasn't replaced because his voice changed.
He was replaced because he didn't want to work.
If you'll recall, Journey was more then willing to tour behind a vocally-handicapped Steve Perry for the proposed 'Trial By Fire' tour.
His indolence is what ultimately cost him his job, his current state of vocal disrepair merely compunded numerous existing negative issues.
But it wasn't the primary one.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I was just wondering how those people would feel if Augeri lost his range. I'm sure the band wouldn't turn on him, but would those fans that no longer like Perry's voice be that loyal?

My thoughts on this:
The band has to do what's in their best interests.

If Augeri lost his high range and could not sing the songs adequately, I believe he would be replaced.
From a pragmatic sense, I would totally understand the band's motivation for doing so (and more then likely, so too would Augeri).

[ohsherrie]

I see, I had skimmed over some of the posts and noticed that Deano said something about not caring for Augeri's higher register. I disagree, I like his higher voice more than the lower one generally. I thought was cool on
Kiss Me Softly but on Tall Stories, I thought it sounded less natural than the higher stuff. I also disagree with him that it sounds thin. I would say that about Hugo and Deen but not SA.

I can't really comment on those songs because I haven't heard them. I don't really have a preference between high and low vocal ranges. It's great to hear a clear, strong, well executed high note, but it's also great to hear a deep, throaty growl. It all depends on the overall quality of the voice that's singing the song.

I don't know about the true fans, when Perry sang lower, I was just glad that Journey was together at all, and understood that age and wear and tear would have to affect a voice of that type.

Amen

I don't think the general audiences going to shows would be forgiving if that happened to SA. And they may not have been forgiving of SP either, if the TBF tour had happened. Most concert goers aren't going to give consideration to what factors may affect a singer over the years, or even from one night to another. They compare Augeri, and would compare Perry as well, to the studio recordings.

You have a good point there. I think TBF was enough of a success with the fans at the time that they would have loved Steve's voice on those songs. I think he could have done great on most of ROR and Frontiers too. The range wasn't all that much of an issue on those songs. Maybe if they mixed the higher range stuff in between the others the lower range would have been overlooked in the charged up atmosphere of a live concert.

[sadie65]

I was just wondering how those people would feel if Augeri lost his range. I'm sure the band wouldn't turn on him, but would those fans that no longer like Perry's voice be that loyal?

My thoughts on this:
The band has to do what's in their best interests.

If Augeri lost his high range and could not sing the songs adequately, I believe he would be replaced.
From a pragmatic sense, I would totally understand the band's motivation for doing so (and more then likely, so too would Augeri).

From a business standpoint yes, the band would likely replace the singer...or any other band member who could no longer do the job to their satisfaction. While I like Mr. Augieri's voice, I suspect it would have little impact on the fans that would be attending the shows. By that point in time, they would be a true nostalgia act, so any reasonable singer or musician could act as a replacement. Were it to happen in their heyday, then yes there would most likely be a larger uproar by the fans.