FAITHFULLY

[r@y]

Was listening to this wonderful track off the GH CD in my car a while ago, and I was thinking..

How come SP's name was not on the writers credits...?

Now, before you all go for your guns, SP did mention ( and also was a 'hot' topic on the board recently ) about him 'making a song mine'....I also know that JC practically brought in OA finished ( Babys didn't like the song ) yet somehow SP is still credited...to what extent was SP's contribution and how did SP let Faithfully 'off'..? ( truly no disrespect intended to the man ).

Anyone...?

Cheers.

Ray.

[Rockindeano]

Easy.

He didn't write it. Jon Cain is the sole writer.

I remember a time when perry wanted it for one of his solo efforts..Cain told him "No."

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Deano's right. Steve's no where to be found on the writing credits.

By the way, of all the Journey songs, did Jonathan Cain write or co-write most of the Journey songs? I see his name listed on a ton of Journey songs. Did is write/co-write most of Journey's "hits"?



FAITHFULLY
Writers:
FRIGA JOHN L

Performers:
JOURNEY
LORRIE MORGAN
MORGAN L
MORGAN LORRIE
PERRY S
STEVE PERRY


Variations:
FOREVER YOURS FAITHFULLY
FAITHFULLY CAIN

[Rockindeano]

Deano's right.

You just NOW figured that out? lol

By the way, of all the Journey songs, did Jonathan Cain write or co-write most of the Journey songs? I see his name listed on a ton of Journey songs. Did is write/co-write most of Journey's "hits"?

Goddammit Laurie, go buy a GH CD..... No, nevermind. Cain was on 99% of every Journey song Escape to NOW. The only song I can think of that had some popularity was The party's Over, and that was pre E5C4P3, written by Espee.

[SuiteMadameBlue]

Deano says:

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:
Deano's right.

You JUST now figured that out? lol

Hey now, I said you were right about THIS

Quote:
By the way, of all the Journey songs, did Jonathan Cain write or co-write most of the Journey songs? I see his name listed on a ton of Journey songs. Did is write/co-write most of Journey's "hits"?

Goddammit Laurie, go buy a GH CD..... No, nevermind. Cain was on 99% of every Journey song Escape to NOW. The only song I can think of that had some popularity was The party's Over, and that was pre E5C4P3, written by Espee.

I have the GH cd right here. That's the next one going in this morning, after my Dream Theater cd that I have cranked up

Wow, he was the writer, co-writer of most/all the "hit" songs. I'm very impressed by him.

[sadie65]

How interesting that I should be lsitening to that this morning.

Mr. Cain is quite prolific in his writing, isn't he?

[ohsherrie]

How interesting that I should be lsitening to that this morning.

Mr. Cain is quite prolific in his writing, isn't he?

Yes, and if Steve was really the controlling ogre(:roll:)that some try to make him out to be, I'm sure he could have found a way to get his name on Faithfully too.

[Monker]

How interesting that I should be lsitening to that this morning.

Mr. Cain is quite prolific in his writing, isn't he?

Yes, and if Steve was really the controlling ogre(:roll:)that some try to make him out to be, I'm sure he could have found a way to get his name on Faithfully too.

After what happened with "Open Arms", do you really think Jonathan would have allowed Perry to do that? No way. Besides, Perry wanted "Faithfully' for his solo album, which became ST...If Perry knew it was that good, why would he want to change it?

In this case, Jonathan was in control of an awesome song that he wrote without ANY input from Journey. He didn't have to allow any changes, and I'm sure he knew it.

[ohsherrie]

In this case, Jonathan was in control of an awesome song that he wrote without ANY input from Journey. He didn't have to allow any changes, and I'm sure he knew it.

I don't doubt that that was the case at all. I'm just saying that same scenario could have applied to many of the songs that some people say Steve demanded writing credits on that he didn't deserve. If Jon had the power to exclude Steve from any credit on Faithfully, all the band members had that power on all the songs. Some people would like to believe Steve stole his writing credits on many of the songs. I've always contended that, if that was truly the case, the other members of the band had the power to keep it from happening.

[Rockindeano]

Sherrie, you are starting to get a case of Cheneyitis.....

No one now is saying Perry was thieving credits, however, you KNOW he was a controlling guy.....

If you say "no" to this one, I am washing my hands of you.

Now respond.

[Monker]

In this case, Jonathan was in control of an awesome song that he wrote without ANY input from Journey. He didn't have to allow any changes, and I'm sure he knew it.

I don't doubt that that was the case at all. I'm just saying that same scenario could have applied to many of the songs that some people say Steve demanded writing credits on that he didn't deserve. If Jon had the power to exclude Steve from any credit on Faithfully, all the band members had that power on all the songs. Some people would like to believe Steve stole his writing credits on many of the songs. I've always contended that, if that was truly the case, the other members of the band had the power to keep it from happening.

That's just not true. Journey songs were always written in the studio with the full band, except for ROR of course. That did not happen with "Faithfully'. Jonathan woke up from dream and wrote the song down, and it was done....The band wasn't there. The first person to hear it was Kevin Elson, with just Jonathan on his piano...which is what the version on "Back to the Innocence" is emulating. The response from Kevin Elson was, "Perry has GOT to sing this song." And, Jonathan said, "I know."

I can't think of another Journey song that was FINISHED and presented to the band by the writer, can you? Sure, there were 'ideas' and the band expanded upon them from there...A lot of it is described in the Robyn Flans book.

This is why I feel Perry's (and anybody elses) contribution to Journey songs can NOT simply be measured by how many hits they had, or the order of the credits, or even how many times they are credited. With the exception of ROR, the BAND wrote the songs...and, IMO, that is the way it should be looked it.

[Marabelle]

Goodness Monker you are defnitely "on" tonight.

[Rockindeano]

Actually Monker, "Lights" was written in '75 by Perry.

Originally the lyrics were, "When the Lights go down, on the Valley ....."
He was atop Mulhulland Dr..

He wrote about it in LA..It was finished, but the band tweaked the words and the city obviously...

[ohsherrie]

This is why I feel Perry's (and anybody elses) contribution to Journey songs can NOT simply be measured by how many hits they had, or the order of the credits, or even how many times they are credited. With the exception of ROR, the BAND wrote the songs...and, IMO, that is the way it should be looked it.

I completely agree with you on that Monker. There's just been a lot of discussion on here about Steve strongarming credits that he didn't deserve for a lot songs. That's why I said what I did. I was in no way trying to take any credit from Jon. He's a marvelous songwriter, but he's said himself that there was a magic between he and Steve. I just want Steve to be given the credit he is due for the great work that he did. There's no reason to try and take that away from him just because he's not with the band anymore.

I can't think of another Journey song that was FINISHED and presented to the band by the writer, can you? Sure, there were 'ideas' and the band expanded upon them from there...A lot of it is described in the Robyn Flans book.

Actually Monker, "Lights" was written in '75 by Perry.

Originally the lyrics were, "When the Lights go down, on the Valley ....."
He was atop Mulhulland Dr..

He wrote about it in LA..It was finished, but the band tweaked the words and the city obviously...

Thanks Dean, I didn't think of that.

[r@y]

Originally the lyrics were, "When the Lights go down, on the Valley ....."
He was atop Mulhulland Dr..

He wrote about it in LA..It was finished, but the band tweaked the words and the city obviously...

That's right.

And the next line was originally " and the sun shines on LA "....

Cheers.

Ray.

[r@y]

In this case, Jonathan was in control of an awesome song that he wrote without ANY input from Journey. He didn't have to allow any changes, and I'm sure he knew it.

I don't doubt that that was the case at all. I'm just saying that same scenario could have applied to many of the songs that some people say Steve demanded writing credits on that he didn't deserve. If Jon had the power to exclude Steve from any credit on Faithfully, all the band members had that power on all the songs. Some people would like to believe Steve stole his writing credits on many of the songs. I've always contended that, if that was truly the case, the other members of the band had the power to keep it from happening.

That's just not true. Journey songs were always written in the studio with the full band, except for ROR of course.

You sure about that, Monker...?

Not all the songs were band written in the studio. SP had the chorus of WCN while he was driving and rushed over to JC's place where they completed the basic track.

Same goes to WYLAW, SP had the chorus and again he called JC and NS to meet him at JC's place where they continued the song.

These are just some instances that I know of.

Cheers.

Ray

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not all the songs were band written in the studio. SP had the chorus of WCN while he was driving and rushed over to JC's place where they completed the basic track.

I knew of that.

Same goes to WYLAW, SP had the chorus and again he called JC and NS to meet him at JC's place where they continued the song.

Ok, didn't know of that one. Where'd you hear that?



Lotta good info in this thread.

[r@y]

Same goes to WYLAW, SP had the chorus and again he called JC and NS to meet him at JC's place where they continued the song.

Ok, didn't know of that one. Where'd you hear that?



Lotta good info in this thread.[/quote]


From Perry, in an interview waay back circa 98.....about his feelings on WYLAW being nominated for a grammy...

Sorry, I can't provide any link or give more exact details tho....

Cheers.

Ray

[SuiteMadameBlue]

I love Journey's music, but never really knew anything with the politics or behind the scenes. I'm still learning about the in's & out's of Journey, so please excuse my ignorance

I was reading older articles about Journey and Steve Perry. Speaking of "When You Love A Woman" I found this from 1996:

The promotional video for When You Love A Woman debuted on VH1. MTV still refuses to play the video


Does anyone know why MTV refused to play the video? I don't remember the video. Was it during a time that MTV was no longer playing videos and turned to those crappy non-music related shows that their currently playing? Or was it there a reason for this particular video?

[Rockindeano]

Does anyone know why MTV refused to play the video?

Simple.

A) Journey are not hot female blondes.

B) They aren't Black.

[NealIsGod]

Does anyone know why MTV refused to play the video? I don't remember the video. Was it during a time that MTV was no longer playing videos and turned to those crappy non-music related shows that their currently playing? Or was it there a reason for this particular video?

It's because you can very plainly see Perry's nipple in one of the scenes. Highly controversial.

[heardonthestreet]

Does anyone know why MTV refused to play the video? I don't remember the video. Was it during a time that MTV was no longer playing videos and turned to those crappy non-music related shows that their currently playing? Or was it there a reason for this particular video?

It's because you can very plainly see Perry's nipple in one of the scenes. Highly controversial.

..................................................

Nawwwwww! It's because the big tube sock that Neal has stuffed in his groin is too evident.

[Greg]

Does anyone know why MTV refused to play the video? I don't remember the video. Was it during a time that MTV was no longer playing videos and turned to those crappy non-music related shows that their currently playing? Or was it there a reason for this particular video?

It's because you can very plainly see Perry's nipple in one of the scenes. Highly controversial.

Yeah, we all know MTV would never have anything like that on their channel!

[ohsherrie]

Sherrie, you are starting to get a case of Cheneyitis.....

No one now is saying Perry was thieving credits, however, you KNOW he was a controlling guy.....

If you say "no" to this one, I am washing my hands of you.

Now respond.

Maybe this one is what you accused me of avoiding last night.

Yes Dean, Steve has absolutely been accused on this board of stealing undeserved songwriting credits. I'm not going to go look up the threads and give you quotes, but I don't really have to. You know it as well as I do.

Yes, it would appear that he may have a controlling personality. However, if his efforts at controlling are responsible for the exceptional results, how do you argue with success? If he didn't have enough control to be responsible for what you see as positive results, how can you blame him for anything you see as negative?

If he had enough control to take undeserved credit for songwriting, then he must have had enough control to have a powerful influence on every aspect of the band. You can't accuse him of the bad without also crediting him with the good.

Either he was in control, or he wasn't. Which was it?

[Rockindeano]

I wasn't at all talking about songwriting credits..hell, Amber Schon is on the Generations album for what? Hell if I know.


So you say Perry was forceful, and strong, and the bottom line is the success that was achieved..ok, I can live with that..

Now explain, err, or defend, how your prince "never felt like part of the Bnad?"

I can't wait for this one.....

[ohsherrie]

I wasn't at all talking about songwriting credits..hell, Amber Schon is on the Generations album for what? Hell if I know.

The subject of this thread was songwriting credits, so I just assumed that was what you meant.

So you say Perry was forceful, and strong, and the bottom line is the success that was achieved..ok, I can live with that..

Now explain, err, or defend, how your prince "never felt like part of the Bnad?"

I can't wait for this one.....

I don't think it's too hard to explain. In fact, Dave did a really good job of that a while back.

I think that quote was edited out of context in the BTM. Earlier in the show they had been talking about how hard it was for Steve to break into the close bond that the band had formed. I think it's very likely that his comment was originally in response to that subject but ended up being inserted into another conversation in the editing. This was a TV show, and a tabloid style show at that. Controversy was as important as accuracy for the sake of ratings.

[Rockindeano]

I think that quote was edited out of context in the BTM. Earlier in the show they had been talking about how hard it was for Steve to break into the close bond that the band had formed.

Bullshit, bullshit and bullshit.


If that were taken out of context, then Neal, Cain, Smith, Valory, Herbie wouldn't have expressd SHOCK at the comment. NO way Perry would have let that be released if VH1 were to miconstrue the timing in order to make a larger uproar..

This is getting comical..

Congratulations, Sherrie, you have Cheneyitis..spin spin spin..

[NoMoreTails]

[Yes Dean, Steve has absolutely been accused on this board of stealing undeserved songwriting credits. I'm not going to go look up the threads and give you quotes, but I don't really have to. You know it as well as I do.

I have not accused Perry of stealing writing credits, of course all co-writers had to agree that he would be credited. I believe he may have insisted on getting credit for minor changes that wouldn't have been anymore significant that Ross or Smitty's interpretations/performances or Neal's on quitar parts of songs he didn't write. There is no doubt that he did not contribute more to every song than the other writers yet is unjustly always listed first, of course the others must have agreed to this demand. And there has been talk about a writer who would not publish songs he worked on for Perry because he felt Perry didn't deserve credit.
Rubiconman has made a good point about Faithfully and so has Monker about Journey most always writing together in the studio.
I can only assume that Jon wised up after Open Arms and presented Faithfully as a finished work and said I"ll be damned if you'll weasel your way into taking credit on it. Yet Perry had the gall to try to steal it for his solo project knowing what a smash it would be. Planning his exit from Journey and trying to use Jon's talent to lay the groundwork for his solo success?

[PROPERRY]

I stated this on another thread somewhere on the board that I don't think it matters whose names goes first on the credits of the songs, I think it just important that they each get listed for song writing credits, but it seems pretty petty to worry about whose name got first listing.

As for the talk about who gets credit for the song writing ect... All anyone has to do is go back to the ESCAPE Houston LIVE DVD, where "Jon talks" about in the interview section about how the song "Open Arms" came about, Yes, Jonathan had already had the song started, but both Jon & Perry finished it together. ( Oh my, did you see how I put Jon 's name first) Is it really that big of a deal???

Lori

[NoMoreTails]

I stated this on another thread somewhere on the board that I don't think it matters whose names goes first on the credits of the songs, I think it just important that they each get listed for song writing credits, but it seems pretty petty to worry about whose name got first listing.

As for the talk about who gets credit for the song writing ect... All anyone has to do is go back to the ESCAPE Houston LIVE DVD, where "Jon talks" about in the interview section about how the song "Open Arms" came about, Yes, Jonathan had already had the song started, but both Jon & Perry finished it together. ( Oh my, did you see how I put Jon 's name first) Is it really that big of a deal???

Lori

I assure you I don't worry about who's name is listed first, I was replying to OhSherrie's remarks, if I may do so, about supposed remarks that Perry had stolen writing credits, restating the various comments I recall to point out that none of them accused him of stealing.