Ok, Here ya go....

[Rockindeano]

Ok, you all want some proof. Let's start with this one.

Ask the Lonely. With the exception of the opening welcoming, and the very ending ad libs, the words and pitch are EXACTLY alike throughout the entire song.

Here is the Greek Theater played on October 9th, 2005, in Los Angeles.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 1D04E4BD86

Now, after this listen, try this one out. Now remember, we are listening to LEAD VOCALS only. Of course the music will be a little different.
This was taken off the Vegas 2001 DVD.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 373E289217


I have plenty more.

[A Fire Inside]

Just to be devil's advocate, Augeri could be singing the same song the same way at different concerts. Perry always said "Do you know what I'm talking about" after "neither could change their headstrong ways" at every show.

He definitely makes some changes on "when you're feeling love's unfair", but the rest could arguably be tape. I overlapped the chorus:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/evg6ka

[Liz22562]

"Earth to Jeremy & Nora.....Earth to Jeremy & Nora". "Where are you Jeremey & Nora"?

Would be nice to get your professional thoughts and wisdom on this latest Journey topic.

Looking forward to Andrews response as well. If anyone has any inside information, I'm sure Andrew could be privy to it.

Journey On people...

[Rockindeano]

Looking forward to Andrews response as well. .

I'm not. I am sure I will be asked to leave for sure. Hold your applause people.

Liz, please check your PM.

[*Laura]

If anyone wishes to know my opinion PM me.
It's healthier this way.

[Seven Wishes]

This is not good. I hope Deano is wrong.

[Free]

Ok, you all want some proof. Let's start with this one.

Ask the Lonely. With the exception of the opening welcoming, and the very ending ad libs, the words and pitch are EXACTLY alike throughout the entire song.

Here is the Greek Theater played on October 9th, 2005, in Los Angeles.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 1D04E4BD86

Now, after this listen, try this one out. Now remember, we are listening to LEAD VOCALS only. Of course the music will be a little different.
This was taken off the Vegas 2001 DVD.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 373E289217


I have plenty more.

The very sad part about all of this is that what you heard is not even the needle in the haystack. As he said, there is so many more examples.

As much as dean and I have had our differences, he is right here folks. This should make all Journey fans that have paid to attend their concerts over the last few years feel cheated out.

Now can anyone tell me that this is not being done for the money?

[Red13JoePa]

Yes. Me.
Deano, I specifically asked you (and as you said, my asking is what FORCED you to come clean on your beliefs) to find something other than ATL. You have not. What dadillio? They don't sound similar enough to me either. There has to be better proof than this if it's as far reaching and deep seeded as intimated. These vox are similar, but then so is every song sung live by every artist.

You've put too many eggs in this Ask the Lonely Basket for too long.

[Liz22562]

Hey Rock - you know Andrew would never throw you off this message board for stating what you believe. Anyone who has read these message boards knows you are extremely passionate about what you believe. Nothing wrong with that at all!

I'll check my pm pronto.

Peace to all!

[Big J]

Guys, I have to say, I don't hear it at all in these two clips. They're not the same, at least not to my ears. Repeated listens, listened for certain intricacies...they're just not there. These clips prove nothing.

I believe that someone told Dean something. Whether or not that person was full of shit? Jury's still out, for me anyway.

[Abitaman]

I do not hear it. I have listened to this and about the 10 to 15 boots I have from the past couple years. Those two match more than any other, but some of the others come close, but not close enough to say, he is lipping it. I think they are using a click track and at times he rides on it on the hard parts-ERIC

[junky]

These vocals are not the same.

I have the 2001 video on my computer and the Greek CD in my CD player.
I synced up the the vocals and have the video coming out of my right speaker and the Greek coming out of my left.
The vocals fall out in and out of sync with each other, the effects on the vocals are waaaay different. Intonation is different.

Maybe Steve has this vocal in his ear and is singing along with it, but it's not the same vocal.

[NealIsGod]

I do not hear it. I have listened to this and about the 10 to 15 boots I have from the past couple years. Those two match more than any other, but some of the others come close, but not close enough to say, he is lipping it. I think they are using a click track and at times he rides on it on the hard parts-ERIC

These vocals are not the same.

I have the 2001 video on my computer and the Greek CD in my CD player.
I synced up the the vocals and have the video coming out of my right speaker and the Greek coming out of my left.
The vocals fall out in and out of sync with each other, the effects on the vocals are waaaay different. Intonation is different.

Maybe Steve has this vocal in his ear and is singing along with it, but it's not the same vocal.

SWEET VINDICATION

[Big J]

Now, can someone give me a somewhat dumbed-down version of what a click track is???

[Eric]

I got very scared after reading Shania's post....but I think these tracks sound somewhat different, but keep in mind that it is Journey playing Ask the Lonely......how different do you expect it to sound?? The Vegas show is much more polished overall obviously....but that aside there are a lot of different sounds from everyone, especially Neal (2:50ish) and Dean (3:45ish). Keep in mind that Dean helps Augeri....Is Dean's voice suppose to be synched too? Augeri is a very polished performer and maybe even too polished and sometimes not enough pure emotion.......even his moves are very similar...but is he MOVE SYNCHING TOO?

The reason they sound similar is because Journey is a very hard working polished band. They don't just show up and play a song for Christ Sakes.

Let me ask you all a question. If Augeri's voice was done, wouldn't they have just replaced him? I mean what would the big deal have been.....he holds very little of the drawing power that Journey possesses. The casual person either thinks its Perry or Perry's replacement up there. The loyal fans would by in large remain loyal.

I mean, If they replaced Mr. P they would replace Mr. A....dontcha think??? Come on...think about this a little more before you defame the band. Jesus! Do you think that Neal Schon would be a part of lip synching? THINK!

I assume when he missed the high notes on bad nights that is on purpose to keep us all off guard!???!!!

Why do people get off on Conspiracies so much????????? I suppose Loose Change is a documentary now too???

[*Laura]

Sorry,but IMO this is all a thing of everyone`s ability to really hear music and differentiate the sounds.I’m talking about people with a natural ear for music.If one doesn’t have an ear for music,it’s hard to understand what we,the people who have this gift,hear.
I was born with this,no big deal.My ear for music was also tested is school.
From what I know,Dean plays the guitar,so he has it too.
I'm waiting for Nora and Jeremey.

You know,having an ear for music is sometimes a pain in the butt.One can't avoid hearing all those awful singers out there.

Big J,

I am too lazy to write,so here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_track

[Big J]

Sorry,but IMO this is all a thing of everyone`s ability to really hear music and differentiate the sounds.I’m talking about people with a natural ear for music.If one doesn’t have an ear for music,it’s hard to understand what we,the people who have this gift,hear.
I was born with this,no big deal.My ear for music was also tested is school.
From what I know,Dean plays the guitar,so he has it too.
I'm waiting for Nora and Jeremey.

You know,having an ear for music is sometimes a pain in the butt.One can't avoid hearing all those awful singers out there.

Big J,

I am too lazy to write,so here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_track

Honestly, I'll tell you, I have the ear too. And I dont hear it.

Thanks for the info on click track. I have no recording experience outside of home stuff, so...

AH the Stalling deal. Okay, I knew what it was all along. Carl Stalling was a genius.

[Eric]

I don't have the ear at all...I aint gonna lie. I have zero artistic ability. However, I can hear complete different sounds and I do think logically and cannot come to any conclusion of why Schon and company would ever do this.

Also....the examples aren't each 4:22....the edits are both 4:22

[*Laura]

sorry

[junky]

But maybe the most obvious proof that this is lip synch is the timing of the songs.Both have 4 mins 22 seconds.That indicates a click track.The original click track from the Las Vegas concert.
They went in the studio with the audio track from Vegas,took out the instruments and left only the voice track and then they played it at the Greek. So the band could be live,but the voice isn’t.I am sure Augeri,as well as the rest of the band had the click track in their ear monitors so they knew they would have to play for exactly 4 minutes and 22 seconds.

I have seen this done before in a studio,so I know what I`m saying.
I am really sad about this.

So, how does the length of the song indicate a click track?

A click track is used to keep the beat(time signature), not the time.

[Eric]

Shania,

I do have trouble differentiating vocals from everything else I admit. You can't understand this, but I don't even always know all the words to my favorite songs...all I hear is the way the word sounds coming out of the singers mouth. But I hear Augeri sounding different (ex. Rainbows).....also, some said "the rest of the band might sound a little different"...I just wanted to say that yes for sure they do....

[*Laura]

..............

[Rockindeano]

Well, some have chosen to agree, and some have not.

here is yet ANOTHER edition of the song, this time from Toronto, 2005.

Same Thing.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 0C1EFA3861

[TRAGChick]

"Earth to Jeremy & Nora.....Earth to Jeremy & Nora". "Where are you Jeremey & Nora"?

Would be nice to get your professional thoughts and wisdom on this latest Journey topic.

Well, thank you very much for that!

Yeah I'm here....can't download the clip tho...

Mark doesn't have this thing configured correctly....and I have NO CLUE about it....this is a brand-new Apple iMac G5 (translate, "MAJOR cha-ching!")

...and I ain't gonna break it!

So, here's a "homework assignment" for you:

Look at these videos again, and during the close-ups of SA, look at his throat....if there's stress occurring in that area while he's singing, then he IS singing.

HOWEVER:

If there is NO stress in the area, he is lip-synching.

Here's an example of "singing live":

The "Separate Ways" video.

"Legend" has it that SP was SO FURIOUS over this video, that he SANG ALONG with the playback....and he was so adrenalized that he was heard CLEARLY - ABOVE the blaring playback.

**NOTE THE STRESS IN HIS NECK - THAT IS SINGING LIVE**

So, take note, and tell me what you think.

[Rockindeano]

Nora, the videos are coming...

However, these are audio tracks.

[NealIsGod]

Well, some have chosen to agree, and some have not.

here is yet ANOTHER edition of the song, this time from Toronto, 2005.

Same Thing.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 0C1EFA3861

Please debunk this one too, jrnyjunkie.

[junky]

But maybe the most obvious proof that this is lip synch is the timing of the songs.Both have 4 mins 22 seconds.That indicates a click track.The original click track from the Las Vegas concert.
They went in the studio with the audio track from Vegas,took out the instruments and left only the voice track and then they played it at the Greek. So the band could be live,but the voice isn’t.I am sure Augeri,as well as the rest of the band had the click track in their ear monitors so they knew they would have to play for exactly 4 minutes and 22 seconds.

I have seen this done before in a studio,so I know what I`m saying.
I am really sad about this.

So, how does the length of the song indicate a click track?
A click track is used to keep the beat(time signature), not the time.

You are right,that's what click track is for.But! The Vegas recording is 4:22,so at the Greek,the click track was put on from second 1 to help Augeri know when to open his mouth in perfect timing with the Vegas tape.The other members used the click track to know exactly how long to keep everything going in concordance with the lenght of the voice track.
I hope I make enough sense.
I am tired.

No, it doesn't make sense. A click track is just a click, like a metronome, it doesn't count minutes and seconds. Only when you're synching video.

To cue a vocalist, usually they use a click one bar before the vocal comes in. Not from the beginning of the song.

[Rockindeano]

Ok, shall I produce another one, one that is waaaay more obvious?

[junky]

Well, some have chosen to agree, and some have not.

here is yet ANOTHER edition of the song, this time from Toronto, 2005.

Same Thing.

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?a ... 0C1EFA3861

Please debunk this one too, jrnyjunkie.

Sorry, NIG, I didn't see this post.

Give me a few minutes.

[Paul_UK]

Ok, shall I produce another one, one that is waaaay more obvious?

I think i'm hearing the same thing, but can't be sure if i'm honest...maybe i'm clutching at straws hoping it ain't true!

Go for it, lets hear the obvious one!!!