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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:46 am

Shania wrote:
cetera wrote:He's providing you with the chance to review the evidence yet you won't do so... but you believe Deano.... :roll:


You are missing the point.This is not about WHO I believe or not.I only believe what I hear.For the time being I have listened to the,I repeat,material evidence provided by Deano.
If RVR wants to prove something,he will have to come up with facts and provide them.
Again,it is not my job to dowload stuff and do the job RVR is supposed to do.All I am willing to do is listen.
So please,stop rolling your eyes and spare me.


Well all I said I was I would post what I found, and directions on HOW it was done so that if people want to do it themselves they can, for independent verification.

That way no one can accuse me of injecting anything into the bootlegs. The original one is out there and anyone can do what I did. You don't have to be some super computer wiz.

The evidence is there, I can present what I found you can do the same thing I did and see if you find it too. I will try and get it post later this evening if I have time.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:50 am

Shania wrote:
cetera wrote:
Shania wrote:
Eric wrote:Are you reading what RVR is writing?


"writing"? How about "proving"?A much more credible word,don't you think so?


What, like Deano is?!?! :roll: :lol:


Between writing about something and actually providing material evidence to back up the idea,there's a big difference,you know?
Meanwhile Dean provided that material evidence.

If RVR saw an UFO,I wanna see the ship. :twisted:
And no,don't tell me to follow RVR's advice and download some let's-play-doctor software.He is the one "writing" about that.
I don't have time to chase UFOs. :lol:

Oh,btw...Since RVR is such an expert in analysing and isolating sound tracks(especially vocals),how do we know he didn't worked them up and added a "faint" vocal track to make it look like there is another vocal track underneath the Vegas one?Hm?


Shania if I saw UFO's I wouldn't say a word!

And I am not an expert, never claimed to be, you don't have to be an expert to use a piece of software. The original file from Manchester is out there, someone posted a link, all anyone has to do is do what I did against that particular file. Then it couldn't have been me that altered it could it?

I do appreciate a the healthy dose of skepticism however, given all that has gone on.
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Postby Liz22562 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:55 am

And it won't be any more disgusting than what Britney, Madonna, Ashlee Simpson, and a few others are doing, IF it is true.

Keep flogging the horse. Poor thing can't even die properly.

:(
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Postby Pit » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:06 am

Monker wrote:
If you knew anything about us or this board you'd know that Dean is the last person who would have Perry fan followers. He doesn't like us and we don't generally like him. Those of us who support his cause are doing so because it's so very obviously the truth and we don't like seeing what this fraudulence is doing to the musical legacy and reputation as a great LIVE band that Steve Perry helped Journey establish.


And, of course, the FACT that Dean made a post a few weeks ago BEGGING Steve Perry to rejoin the band has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Riiiight.



Monker's been hittin the nail on the head for going on 9 years.

It's not even funny when one strips away all the BS just how simplistic the whole agenda is. This side, that side, a $10 recorder, a DVD, and a stopwatch.
It's not laughable either. No longer even debatable.

It's over.
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Postby cetera » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:10 am

Shania wrote:So please,stop rolling your eyes and spare me.


It's not easy, with your 'can't/won't do it for myself' attitude.... :roll: :roll:
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:30 am

Pit wrote:
Monker wrote:
If you knew anything about us or this board you'd know that Dean is the last person who would have Perry fan followers. He doesn't like us and we don't generally like him. Those of us who support his cause are doing so because it's so very obviously the truth and we don't like seeing what this fraudulence is doing to the musical legacy and reputation as a great LIVE band that Steve Perry helped Journey establish.


And, of course, the FACT that Dean made a post a few weeks ago BEGGING Steve Perry to rejoin the band has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Riiiight.



Monker's been hittin the nail on the head for going on 9 years.

It's not even funny when one strips away all the BS just how simplistic the whole agenda is. This side, that side, a $10 recorder, a DVD, and a stopwatch.
It's not laughable either. No longer even debatable.

It's over.


You don't even need a stopwatch. If it is done on a computer that's built in. It's frightenly scary how simple it is.
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:35 am

Pit wrote:
Monker wrote:And, of course, the FACT that Dean made a post a few weeks ago BEGGING Steve Perry to rejoin the band has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Riiiight.



Monker's been hittin the nail on the head for going on 9 years.



Not this time. Anyone who's ever known me on any board for the last 6 yrs or so knows I don't want Steve Perry back with Journey. This isn't about Steve Perry at all. That's just a smoke screen so many of you are trying to throw up. You think you can turn this into another Perry vs Augeri argument and divert attention from the real issue. Won't work.
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Postby WalrusOct9 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:29 am

*sigh*

I'm probably going to have to go home tonight and create some of my own files to throw up as new evidence...maybe a few people might believe it if it came from somewhere other than this Deano guy. (who, if you couldn't tell from my newbie-esque post count, I'd never heard of until this thing came up)
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Postby Monker » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:32 am

Not this time. Anyone who's ever known me on any board for the last 6 yrs or so knows I don't want Steve Perry back with Journey. This isn't about Steve Perry at all. That's just a smoke screen so many of you are trying to throw up. You think you can turn this into another Perry vs Augeri argument and divert attention from the real issue. Won't work.


That's not my point.

The fact is that when Dean was slicing Perry up and using his innards to decorate the forum, he was probably the most hated person on this forum - by the Perry crowd. Now that he's doing the same thing to Augeri, and he now loves Perry too, he is suddenly a credible source of info and everything he says is to be believed. If he were still talking Perry trash, I doubt the Perry crowd would be nearly as vocal or believe everything he says...Cuz, to believe everything he says would mean that Perry sux, he screwed the band, he is a traitor to Journey...and on and on and on...
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:33 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:*sigh*

I'm probably going to have to go home tonight and create some of my own files to throw up as new evidence...maybe a few people might believe it if it came from somewhere other than this Deano guy. (who, if you couldn't tell from my newbie-esque post count, I'd never heard of until this thing came up)


I didn't make new files, I used the ones Dean has. But you can go use the same ones and find the same thing. Or not.

I have said my piece and given the evidence I can give, now it is up to others to judge that evidence. I am sure some will find it lacking, others will find it compelling and some just won't care either way.

All I could do, I a can do is put it out there for everyone to look at, the rest is up to them.
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Postby junky » Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:46 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
WalrusOct9 wrote:*sigh*

I'm probably going to have to go home tonight and create some of my own files to throw up as new evidence...maybe a few people might believe it if it came from somewhere other than this Deano guy. (who, if you couldn't tell from my newbie-esque post count, I'd never heard of until this thing came up)


I didn't make new files, I used the ones Dean has. But you can go use the same ones and find the same thing. Or not.

I have said my piece and given the evidence I can give, now it is up to others to judge that evidence. I am sure some will find it lacking, others will find it compelling and some just won't care either way.

All I could do, I a can do is put it out there for everyone to look at, the rest is up to them.


RVR, you don't owe it to anybody but yourself to find the real truth.
If others don't want to do the research, that's their problem.
I know I feel much better after finding, listening and comparing on my own, for my own piece of mind.
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:49 am

Monker wrote:
Not this time. Anyone who's ever known me on any board for the last 6 yrs or so knows I don't want Steve Perry back with Journey. This isn't about Steve Perry at all. That's just a smoke screen so many of you are trying to throw up. You think you can turn this into another Perry vs Augeri argument and divert attention from the real issue. Won't work.


That's not my point.

The fact is that when Dean was slicing Perry up and using his innards to decorate the forum, he was probably the most hated person on this forum - by the Perry crowd. Now that he's doing the same thing to Augeri, and he now loves Perry too, he is suddenly a credible source of info and everything he says is to be believed. If he were still talking Perry trash, I doubt the Perry crowd would be nearly as vocal or believe everything he says...Cuz, to believe everything he says would mean that Perry sux, he screwed the band, he is a traitor to Journey...and on and on and on...


But Monker, you've got it wrong. At least where I'm concerned. It isn't as if Dean is my new best bud. We still haven't resolved the conflicts between us. I wouldn't believe this if it wasn't something I had been suspecting myself. His posting of those first clips on his blog just shored up my own beliefs. Then when other people started making comparisons and coming to the same conclusions there was just no longer any doubt in my mind. You know that I've never really liked it that they kept the name Journey and got someone else to sing the songs that Steve helped write and make hits. That in itself is fraudulent to me, so I frankly wouldn't care that Augeri is faking it if they were being honest about it. In fact, I would probably find it rather gratifying if they weren't causing even further damage to the Journey legacy by duping their own fans. It has nothing to with with who initiated it. I will say that I'm glad it wasn't a Perry fan but a staunch supported of the band that brought it out. No one has any valid reason to blame this on Perry or his Perry fans.
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Postby odessa » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:52 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:Well if we are "outing" people...then let me out you.

After I initially listned I have to admit it looked bad for the Journey boys.

But then I took the discrete sounds out of phase on the supposed bootleg. I stretched the sounds and slowed them down and then searched for other hidden discrete sounds, and I found it right before Steve's vocals start.

On the supposed Manchester bootleg I found where someone added the DVD vocals over the original vocal Steve Augeri sang, AFTER the original bootleg had been made. Under the overdub you can hear, very faintly, the original vocal done in Manchester.

I am still working on the other bootlegs but I am sure they are there.

So I would have to say Dean is full of it.

I wasn't even going to post this, but as you can see Dean forced my hand. I figured he had hurt himself enough with this whole thing.
But there you have it. And if I can find this stuff so can others, and I am sure they will.


Okay, so how can we explain what the sound engineer heard (and reported) that was not from a bootleg?

R Deano and the sound guy gave two different accounts. One as a fan, the other behind the scene. If there are issues with people fiddeling, then won't the orgianl tape the radio station has show that? Would you also state that based on your findings BOTH R Deano and the Sound Engineer are full of it?
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Postby A Fire Inside » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:55 am

Did any of you besides Dean REALLY honestly truly "suspect" all of this before? I find it hard to believe. It seems more likely that maybe a bunch of people heard his accusations/bootlegs and said, "Oh, hey, that makes sense since one time I saw him lower the mic but I still heard singing! Yeah, that's what I ALWAYS THOUGHT!" If people had suspected this for a long time, it would have been mentioned before now.
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:56 am

odessa wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:Well if we are "outing" people...then let me out you.

After I initially listned I have to admit it looked bad for the Journey boys.

But then I took the discrete sounds out of phase on the supposed bootleg. I stretched the sounds and slowed them down and then searched for other hidden discrete sounds, and I found it right before Steve's vocals start.

On the supposed Manchester bootleg I found where someone added the DVD vocals over the original vocal Steve Augeri sang, AFTER the original bootleg had been made. Under the overdub you can hear, very faintly, the original vocal done in Manchester.

I am still working on the other bootlegs but I am sure they are there.

So I would have to say Dean is full of it.

I wasn't even going to post this, but as you can see Dean forced my hand. I figured he had hurt himself enough with this whole thing.
But there you have it. And if I can find this stuff so can others, and I am sure they will.


Okay, so how can we explain what the sound engineer heard (and reported) that was not from a bootleg?

R Deano and the sound guy gave two different accounts. One as a fan, the other behind the scene. If there are issues with people fiddeling, then won't the orgianl tape the radio station has show that? Would you also state that based on your findings BOTH R Deano and the Sound Engineer are full of it?


I cannot comment on something I did not hear directly. ::shrug:: that is out of my purview. He says he saw it, but no tape has surfaced that proves what he saw. I am sure Svante saw or heard something, but I cannot be expected to know if he is telling the truth since I do not know the person.

Again the evidence is there if you chose to look, or in this case listen.

I gave my opinion based on my research, Dean has give his, Svante has given his perspective. Don't take any of our words for it, go search yourself.
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Postby WalrusOct9 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:01 am

A Fire Inside wrote:Did any of you besides Dean REALLY honestly truly "suspect" all of this before? I find it hard to believe. It seems more likely that maybe a bunch of people heard his accusations/bootlegs and said, "Oh, hey, that makes sense since one time I saw him lower the mic but I still heard singing! Yeah, that's what I ALWAYS THOUGHT!" If people had suspected this for a long time, it would have been mentioned before now.



I don't know, I've never seen Journey live. I used to live in Michigan where they'd play Pine Knob (DTE) every year, which is the worst venue I've ever been to next to the House of (Corporate) Blues. That and I was really the only 20 year old Journey junkie around and it's no fun to go to a show like that by yourself. Since I moved to Chicago I've been hoping to see them at a better venue but it just hadn't happened yet. So no, I had no idea, but I also hadn't heard any live Journey recordings other than the official live releases and some Perry-era bootlegs.
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Postby cetera » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:11 am

ohsherrie wrote:You know that I've never really liked it that they kept the name Journey and got someone else to sing the songs that Steve helped write and make hits. That in itself is fraudulent to me.


Journey existed BEFORE, during and after Perry. Journey is Schon's baby. There was a singer before Perry and there's been a singer since. Journey would only be a fraud if Neil Schon wasn't involved.....
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Postby Paul_UK » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:21 am

cetera wrote:
Journey existed BEFORE, during and after Perry. Journey is Schon's baby. There was a singer before Perry and there's been a singer since. Journey would only be a fraud if Neil Schon wasn't involved.....


I agree 100% with Cetera.

Why shouldn't they keep the Journey name?...Perry left off his own steam anyway, if the rest of the band wanted to continue they've more than earned the right to do so - it is THEIR band after all.

AC/DC did it with great success, along with Van Halen and most recently Queen who have just come off a very successful world tour. Were these bands the same as their earlier days? - Of course not, but still manged to produce some great new music along the way which entertained those who wished to continue their support.
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Postby odessa » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:22 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
odessa wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:Well if we are "outing" people...then let me out you.

After I initially listned I have to admit it looked bad for the Journey boys.

But then I took the discrete sounds out of phase on the supposed bootleg. I stretched the sounds and slowed them down and then searched for other hidden discrete sounds, and I found it right before Steve's vocals start.

On the supposed Manchester bootleg I found where someone added the DVD vocals over the original vocal Steve Augeri sang, AFTER the original bootleg had been made. Under the overdub you can hear, very faintly, the original vocal done in Manchester.

I am still working on the other bootlegs but I am sure they are there.

So I would have to say Dean is full of it.

I wasn't even going to post this, but as you can see Dean forced my hand. I figured he had hurt himself enough with this whole thing.
But there you have it. And if I can find this stuff so can others, and I am sure they will.


Okay, so how can we explain what the sound engineer heard (and reported) that was not from a bootleg?

R Deano and the sound guy gave two different accounts. One as a fan, the other behind the scene. If there are issues with people fiddeling, then won't the orgianl tape the radio station has show that? Would you also state that based on your findings BOTH R Deano and the Sound Engineer are full of it?


I cannot comment on something I did not hear directly. ::shrug:: that is out of my purview. He says he saw it, but no tape has surfaced that proves what he saw. I am sure Svante saw or heard something, but I cannot be expected to know if he is telling the truth since I do not know the person.

Again the evidence is there if you chose to look, or in this case listen.

I gave my opinion based on my research, Dean has give his, Svante has given his perspective. Don't take any of our words for it, go search yourself.


Okay, Svante said he SAW and HEARD it and was THERE. You and Deano were not. Deano says that there is something strange going on. You talk to Deano, then you say Deano is full of it. People then believe the claim is false because you say you tested a bootleg?

However....we still have the sound guy/journalist and the fact that he says there are other (Trainned Professionals) who were there with him... behind the scenes. So if you are so strong in your convictions start your own blog, but put up the disclaimer that your findings dispute R Deano's ONLY because they can't dispute a TRAINNED PROFESSIONAL who was there and has given his full name and credentials. This man has put that on the line.

R Deano is putting his life and livelyhood on the line- to irrate fans and the bands anger.

What are you prepared to do, now that you say R Deano is "full of it"... besides posting here?

You and R Deano may cancel each others findings out because of bootlegs. However, we still have the sound engineer/journalist to think about. I think the media (and general public) will believe him and Deano over you any day. That's just my observation.... as a neutral individual/member of the general public in this whole mess.

Botton line...THE BAND NEEDS TO SAY SOMETHING This ain't about Deano and you. It's about the band's reputation, integrity and what they do (or don't) earn because they don't make any statements. That's what's at stake here...Bottom line.

Also, it sounds, from what you orginally said, that you only "outed" R Deano because he "outed" you. So you would have said nothing if he did not "out" you? :shock: :shock: You would have kept your findings quiet? :evil: So both sides could have kept fighting, yet you would have had evidence. :twisted: Care to expalin that or did you only talk cause Deano pissed you off? :shock::twisted:

I doesn't sound like you talked for any reason other than to help your reputation. You didn't do it for the interest of the band's defence or aid! :twisted:
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Postby Monker » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:46 am

odessa wrote:R Deano and the sound guy gave two different accounts. One as a fan, the other behind the scene.


Correct...and they contradict each other.

The "sound guy" says, "I went up on stage to have a look and there was a guy with two digital multitrack recorders, apparently sending a prerecorded, correct vocal to the house mix"

Dean says it's tapes, no he says a CD skipped, then he says tape again. The sound guy says digital recorders. Make up your mind please.

If there are issues with people fiddeling, then won't the orgianl tape the radio station has show that? Would you also state that based on your findings BOTH R Deano and the Sound Engineer are full of it?


It seems this was a radio show....if it is legit, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, it will show up on the market within weeks...ON CD. Then RVR, or whoever, can discect the radio show on CD...not some crappy audience bootleg.
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Postby *Laura » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:51 am

If I remember well,Svante said the Sweden Journey concert will be aired in October or something like that.
Something tells me they will "forget" to air it.

Btw,I think the words "CD" and "tapes" were used to indicate the fact that they used a recorded vocal,it wasn't the exact technical description of what they actually used.
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Postby WalrusOct9 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:52 am

It's tapes, I'm sure they'd never use an actual CD for something that delicate. It's either DAT tape or audio stored on some kind of hard drive. I think the word "CD" was just thrown around to keep from having to explain the idea of DAT tape to non-audio geeks...the concept is the same.
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:53 am

cetera wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:You know that I've never really liked it that they kept the name Journey and got someone else to sing the songs that Steve helped write and make hits. That in itself is fraudulent to me.


Journey existed BEFORE, during and after Perry. Journey is Schon's baby. There was a singer before Perry and there's been a singer since. Journey would only be a fraud if Neil Schon wasn't involved.....


Even though the part of my post that you quoted is really beside the point that I was trying to make, I'll respond just for clarification.

I didn't say it was fraud, I said it was fraud to me. I don't like anything they did before Perry and Arrival and Gens(even though I like them)don't sound like Journey to me.
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Postby lshphrd » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:55 am

I have some boots from the first tour up until the last tour.
I listened to this so called rumor and accusation and
also watched 3 of the dvds I have from the 05 tour.
I see absolutely Nothing along the lines of this rumor
or accusation. along with the occasional "voice problems"
that may exist froim show to show all I see is a man
singing his soul and heart out for his fans.
I have met the man personally, and I can honestly say
he is nothing more than himble kind and a stand up guy.
I see nothing to these rumors and will look forward to the shows i am attending,
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Postby ohsherrie » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:04 am

A Fire Inside wrote:Did any of you besides Dean REALLY honestly truly "suspect" all of this before? I find it hard to believe. It seems more likely that maybe a bunch of people heard his accusations/bootlegs and said, "Oh, hey, that makes sense since one time I saw him lower the mic but I still heard singing! Yeah, that's what I ALWAYS THOUGHT!" If people had suspected this for a long time, it would have been mentioned before now.


YES I've been suspecting it ever since the initial reports of his voice completely failing him in the first concerts of last year's tour. Of course I didn't post about it here and catch seven kinds of hell for it.

When he started out with no voice and they said they were calling in his voice coach, then all of a sudden the problems were fixed, come on guys, that just doesn't happen. Then they have to cancel a show because he he's ill, then lo and behold, he's on the top of his game again. It smacked of technical help before Dean ever said a word.
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Postby shaka » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:06 am

RossValoryRocks wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:So, RVR, that underlying vocal wouldn't be Augie's actual singing, and the "top" vocal couldn't be the vocals played by the engineer at the show? How do you know it was added later?

Just asking!


If this weren't doctored there is no way in packed show anyone would pickup BOTH vocals unless plugged into the actual mixing board, they are not going to put both through the PA.


Ok, I'm usually over at the Styx board and only lurk on the Journey board. I believe this is my first post over here. I have experience as a live sound engineer and musician so I've followed this topic with interest. I'm not posting this to prove the controversy either way nor am I taking sides. With that said a lot of major acts currently use backing tracks.

Anyone who has experience in live sound recording know that the signal from the stage often gets split a few times before ever hitting the front of house mixing board. Typically one gets sent to the monitor mixer and the other gets sent to the recording truck. There are times when the FOH board acts as the distro point for the signals but that's not always the case. If there was a feed of a pre-recorded vocal it would probably be split along with everything else and sent the recording truck. If Deano is right the real vocal may have just been undermixed so that the prerecorded vocal was dominant. Frankly the presence of the real singing doesn't surprise me a bit.

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Postby lshphrd » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:08 am

A Fire Inside wrote:Did any of you besides Dean REALLY honestly truly "suspect" all of this before? I find it hard to believe. It seems more likely that maybe a bunch of people heard his accusations/bootlegs and said, "Oh, hey, that makes sense since one time I saw him lower the mic but I still heard singing! Yeah, that's what I ALWAYS THOUGHT!" If people had suspected this for a long time, it would have been mentioned before now.

No I never suspected anything like this. There are still points in last years tour wherre he has a probelm here or there., the man is human.
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Postby odessa » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:11 am

Jeremey wrote:I can tell you straight up a few pertinent facts, without listening to the recording, doing spectral analysis or any other audio wizardry. I'm not posting my opinion on this at all. But here are some FACTS, completely unrelated to whether or not Steve Augeri is lip synching his performances. Any other industry professionals care to verify what I am saying, please do.

• If what Stuart is saying is true, that the bootleg recordings of the Manchester show on dimeadozen.com have actually been doctored to include the layered audio from the Sony release Journey Live In Vegas 2001, than this is truly a serious allegation. Because for this to be true, you must understand that very few people actually have access to the original multitrack recording of the Vegas 2001 DVD. I would say, only people working for Sony, and people working for Journey. So let me make this as clear as I can:

Someone with access to the original multitrack recordings of the Vegas 2001 DVD would have had to acquired the bootleg of the Manchester show, stripped out Steve Augeri's vocal from the Vegas multitrack, and synched it up with the exact tempo of the live performance from the Manchester recording, then posted this on dimeadozen.com and/or got this information to Deano with the specific intent of perpetrating a hoax.... Who within Sony and/or the Journey organization would have benefitted from this? I'm just throwing out possibilities here people....It's important to look at all possible situations. Again, I am not forming an opinion either way - Only pointing out certain things that MUST have taken place for this to be true.

Then there's possibility #2

• If what Stuart is saying isn't true, then is it possible that Journey did in fact have access to the multitrack recording of the Journey Live in Vegas 2001 DVD, and is in fact feeding the stripped out audio track of Augeri's vocals along with the timecode click through everyone's in ear monitoring system, and they are indeed using this "guide" vocal throughout the performance to cover up Augeri's vocal issues. If this was the case, then it IS TRUE that Stuart could have run an analysis on the bootleg recording, heard the audio artifacts from the Vegas DVD, because it is ONLY Augeri's vocal that is overlayed there, and picked up the subtle nuances of breathing and expression already recorded in the original multitrack. I suppose this is possible as well..

Either way, if you are on one side or the other on this arguement, you simply have to believe that either (1) OR (2) is true, depending on your opinion....It is possible there are other (unlikely) explanations, and I would like to hear them as well...


Thanks for this...

It's the only post that makes real sense-no verbal attacks (or personal reference on how nice someone is....those posts won’t make me spend my money). The very strong points is what I am looking for (as a member of the general public who wants to see a live band). Your two scenarios give me that....some unbiased possible answers.

Now, I do hope that band is looking at what you said in the first scenario. I think they should make a statement that they are looking into something...such as the situation you outlined above. If that is the case and it is not scenario #2 that is another story....

Again, very good points. Thank you
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Postby RossValoryRocks » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:15 am

odessa wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
odessa wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:Well if we are "outing" people...then let me out you.

After I initially listned I have to admit it looked bad for the Journey boys.

But then I took the discrete sounds out of phase on the supposed bootleg. I stretched the sounds and slowed them down and then searched for other hidden discrete sounds, and I found it right before Steve's vocals start.

On the supposed Manchester bootleg I found where someone added the DVD vocals over the original vocal Steve Augeri sang, AFTER the original bootleg had been made. Under the overdub you can hear, very faintly, the original vocal done in Manchester.

I am still working on the other bootlegs but I am sure they are there.

So I would have to say Dean is full of it.

I wasn't even going to post this, but as you can see Dean forced my hand. I figured he had hurt himself enough with this whole thing.
But there you have it. And if I can find this stuff so can others, and I am sure they will.


Okay, so how can we explain what the sound engineer heard (and reported) that was not from a bootleg?

R Deano and the sound guy gave two different accounts. One as a fan, the other behind the scene. If there are issues with people fiddeling, then won't the orgianl tape the radio station has show that? Would you also state that based on your findings BOTH R Deano and the Sound Engineer are full of it?


I cannot comment on something I did not hear directly. ::shrug:: that is out of my purview. He says he saw it, but no tape has surfaced that proves what he saw. I am sure Svante saw or heard something, but I cannot be expected to know if he is telling the truth since I do not know the person.

Again the evidence is there if you chose to look, or in this case listen.

I gave my opinion based on my research, Dean has give his, Svante has given his perspective. Don't take any of our words for it, go search yourself.


Okay, Svante said he SAW and HEARD it and was THERE. You and Deano were not. Deano says that there is something strange going on. You talk to Deano, then you say Deano is full of it. People then believe the claim is false because you say you tested a bootleg?

However....we still have the sound guy/journalist and the fact that he says there are other (Trainned Professionals) who were there with him... behind the scenes. So if you are so strong in your convictions start your own blog, but put up the disclaimer that your findings dispute R Deano's ONLY because they can't dispute a TRAINNED PROFESSIONAL who was there and has given his full name and credentials. This man has put that on the line.

R Deano is putting his life and livelyhood on the line- to irrate fans and the bands anger.

What are you prepared to do, now that you say R Deano is "full of it"... besides posting here?

You and R Deano may cancel each others findings out because of bootlegs. However, we still have the sound engineer/journalist to think about. I think the media (and general public) will believe him and Deano over you any day. That's just my observation.... as a neutral individual/member of the general public in this whole mess.

Botton line...THE BAND NEEDS TO SAY SOMETHING This ain't about Deano and you. It's about the band's reputation, integrity and what they do (or don't) earn because they don't make any statements. That's what's at stake here...Bottom line.

Also, it sounds, from what you orginally said, that you only "outed" R Deano because he "outed" you. So you would have said nothing if he did not "out" you? :shock: :shock: You would have kept your findings quiet? :evil: So both sides could have kept fighting, yet you would have had evidence. :twisted: Care to expalin that or did you only talk cause Deano pissed you off? :shock::twisted:

I doesn't sound like you talked for any reason other than to help your reputation. You didn't do it for the interest of the band's defence or aid! :twisted:


I wasn't going to say anything because Dean has hurt himself enough.

But yes he got me angry enough to come out with what I found. C'est La Vie!

I don't need to defend the band, that's what they pay their attorney and management for. I am making an observation base on what I have heard.

Frankly I don't care about what you or anyone else thinks about me, so my reputation is neither here nor there.
You can look at the evidence, both Dean's and mine and make your own decision regard what is going on. Either way it's no skin off of my back.
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Postby odessa » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:20 am

shaka wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:
NealIsGod wrote:So, RVR, that underlying vocal wouldn't be Augie's actual singing, and the "top" vocal couldn't be the vocals played by the engineer at the show? How do you know it was added later?

Just asking!


If this weren't doctored there is no way in packed show anyone would pickup BOTH vocals unless plugged into the actual mixing board, they are not going to put both through the PA.


Ok, I'm usually over at the Styx board and only lurk on the Journey board. I believe this is my first post over here. I have experience as a live sound engineer and musician so I've followed this topic with interest. I'm not posting this to prove the controversy either way nor am I taking sides. With that said a lot of major acts currently use backing tracks.

Anyone who has experience in live sound recording know that the signal from the stage often gets split a few times before ever hitting the front of house mixing board. Typically one gets sent to the monitor mixer and the other gets sent to the recording truck. There are times when the FOH board acts as the distro point for the signals but that's not always the case. If there was a feed of a pre-recorded vocal it would probably be split along with everything else and sent the recording truck. If Deano is right the real vocal may have just been undermixed so that the prerecorded vocal was dominant. Frankly the presence of the real singing doesn't surprise me a bit.

Eric


Thank you, for adding this Eric. It's another good post that makes sense and helps me to get some perspective on the ordeal.
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