Is this the Journey's end?

[jrnysc]

I would like to say one other thing on this, hopefully to fully clarify my point. IF it is found out that most of the live show is pre-recorded vocals, I too will be very disappointed and also angry. Journey is better than that, and what a shame that would be for their legacy to end in any such of a way. I truly find it hard to believe as long as they have been around they would do this. At this point I believe he is getting vocal "assistance". If that is standard in the industry which it seems to be, I am fine with that. I don't expect Journey to explain every single piece of equipment they have and every technical detail of their show. For me it is a night with my wife, a few beers and some great live music. Nothing more. Once again, both my wife and I CLEARLY heard the pre-recorded vocals, however MOST of what I heard Augeri was singing as well. I am all into evidence, and I have a very open mind. If anyone has anything else that shows differently, I would be more than happy to take a listen. I don't have a dog in this fight, I just hope it is what it seems at this moment to be.

[jrnysc]

And yes Odessa, I surely understand your reasons. Trust me, I DON'T want to get that started!!! That was certainly not the intention of my comments.

[conversationpc]

Can you imagine Whitesnake having the drummer sing 5 songs of their set???....wouldn't happen.

Whitesnake doesn't have a drummer that can sing like Deen Castronovo, either.

Neither does journey!!!

That makes no sense at all.

[nolippin]

From what I've read and according to the Swedish sound engineer who witnessed it for hmself, Augeri IS indeed singing, however the output of his mic is not always what the audience is hearing, but a pre-recorded vocal track. To my mind that is just not acceptable.

This isn't some pretty boy band or some dance based performance like Britney f'ing Spears!! It's JOURNEY!!!

Whether people like it or not Journey's fame was built around soaring vocals and guitar. Now you think people are willing to accept that the vocals are pre-recorded??? Some of the fan comments on other boards are saying the guy isn't even working the crowd, but standing in the back of the stage like some backup singer. WTF??? He has no reason to be out of breath or to be relying on tapes...and we are talking about tapes for LEAD vocals...not to enhance...except that the man's voice is shot!!!!

Why pay big bucks for a concert and get pre-recorded vocals??? You get that sitting at home watching the DVD, the beer is cheaper, and not poured down your back by some drunk trying to sing with the band!!!

Ticket prices...not to mention parking, concessions and babysitting are way too expensive for the band to think that people are going to accept that.

If the man can't sing anymore, he should step aside while he has some dignity left and they should find another singer to finish out the tour.

I would like to say one other thing on this, hopefully to fully clarify my point. IF it is found out that most of the live show is pre-recorded vocals, I too will be very disappointed and also angry. Journey is better than that, and what a shame that would be for their legacy to end in any such of a way. I truly find it hard to believe as long as they have been around they would do this. At this point I believe he is getting vocal "assistance". If that is standard in the industry which it seems to be, I am fine with that. I don't expect Journey to explain every single piece of equipment they have and every technical detail of their show. For me it is a night with my wife, a few beers and some great live music. Nothing more. Once again, both my wife and I CLEARLY heard the pre-recorded vocals, however MOST of what I heard Augeri was singing as well. I am all into evidence, and I have a very open mind. If anyone has anything else that shows differently, I would be more than happy to take a listen. I don't have a dog in this fight, I just hope it is what it seems at this moment to be.

[fallingman]

The end of this tour they MUST do something,Steve will not get better neither will there reputation if they carry on as they have.Either get a new singer(not sure if this would work...Augeri is very popular) or call it a day.I know they need to work to pay the bills but this will destroy the legacy of the band.

I've been wondering just what is the deal with their seemingly constant touring ?

For anyone who read the Herbie Herbert interview found somewhere out there on the 'net in which he basically seems to state that Perry has Messrs Schon & co. by the short and curlies contractually, as in Perry gets paid whenever any of his songs get performed by present-day Journey - maybe someone can correct me on that ?

In the same interview, HH says the Journey guys lost a lot in bad financial decisions in the 80's/ 90's, which may also explain the constant touring, but who's the boss ? Neal ?

It really hurts me to see all this sh*t going down about my favourite band, who I finally got to see in Edinburgh over here less than a month ago, yet having listened to some of the files, there is something going on.

I hope Journey address this somehow very soon, because it's caused so much controversy and bickering, but one thing I have learnt is that BT is a fantasyland where "nothing is real" and "living is easy with eyes closed" to quote a famous English band you might've heard of...

And sorry to say, but some of the posts on this board are downright juvenile whether they're based in fact or not - grow up, FFS !

Just my ten cents, IMHO...




Andy

a.k.a. "fallingman"

[whocares]

If someone's performing MY songs, i want to be paid too, but Perry was the smart one, by all accounts, as in he supposedly invested his money. PLUS he doesn't have children all over the map and ex-wives to pay alimony to. What does he have to spend his money on? Baseball teams will pay to fly him around the U.S. and to attend games "because he brings good luck" or some such shit to the team. I see nothing wrong wtih that, but he is certainly the smartest of all the Journey Clan, it would seem.

IF the rumors that have been out there for a while are true about him having them by the short hairs, then good for him.

[KittyKat]

On the Open Arms issue, we discussed this here when news of this double billing broke here and most people felt that with a lot of Def Leppard fans going to be present, there's just no way Journey should subject them both Faithfully AND Open Arms. I just don't think it would go over well, and so far it looks like the band agree.

Wrong, everyone wants that song. For casual Journey fans this is the one everyone knows, go look at DL forum you'll see. Mariah Carey covered this song as well as one of DL's so they know it's a Journey song and want to hear it. I've asked that question here, why they aren't playing open arms? DL have plenty of ballads and soft rock songs so it isn't because of that.

[Joseph Kyselak]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

I knew this would be coming It's always the easiest excuse to claim that everyone else is doing it too. I doubt this argument ever got anyone out of a speeding ticket
The fact is that NOT everyone is doing it. We are talking about the LEAD vocals not some backing vocals or other sound enhancing measures.
And even IF everyone else would be doing it, it still would be wrong since they are not delivering the product they are advertising for sale: a LIVE concert - not a PARTIAL LIVE concert.

Joseph

[Saint John]

I, for one, do not think Perry ever used pre-recorded LEAD vocals. Background...probably. I also think that there came a time when he probably needed to, or should I say, felt he needed to. His decision at that time was "I'm toast." And he stepped awat with his dignity. Augeri should've done the same. The money he has made in the last 8 years has to 1000x what he was making changing urinal cakes for The Gap.

[bionic]

The end of this tour they MUST do something,Steve will not get better neither will there reputation if they carry on as they have.Either get a new singer(not sure if this would work...Augeri is very popular) or call it a day.I know they need to work to pay the bills but this will destroy the legacy of the band.

I've been wondering just what is the deal with their seemingly constant touring ?

For anyone who read the Herbie Herbert interview found somewhere out there on the 'net in which he basically seems to state that Perry has Messrs Schon & co. by the short and curlies contractually, as in Perry gets paid whenever any of his songs get performed by present-day Journey - maybe someone can correct me on that ?

In the same interview, HH says the Journey guys lost a lot in bad financial decisions in the 80's/ 90's, which may also explain the constant touring, but who's the boss ? Neal ?

It really hurts me to see all this sh*t going down about my favourite band, who I finally got to see in Edinburgh over here less than a month ago, yet having listened to some of the files, there is something going on.

I hope Journey address this somehow very soon, because it's caused so much controversy and bickering, but one thing I have learnt is that BT is a fantasyland where "nothing is real" and "living is easy with eyes closed" to quote a famous English band you might've heard of...

And sorry to say, but some of the posts on this board are downright juvenile whether they're based in fact or not - grow up, FFS !

Just my ten cents, IMHO...




Andy


I agree with your comments on BT,its a bit like cult.They love what they do so much that the thought of this being true is to much.Without Journey what would they have/ Its a bit trainspotter!
Perry has looked after his money Neal has not, he said in the behind the music 'He's got to pay the bills' and Journey does that,belive me if Hagar had stayed in SoulSircus and they had a hit i think Neal would have left Journey.
There income would be a lot less if Journey split,this is not the 80's anymore when they can just start another band.
Some people are o.k with the tapes and some are not,i have said this many times if its tape then i wont pay for this,just dont con me by portraying it as live.

[TRAGChick]

to say the people who allegedly use tapes for vocals is not decietful, is to live under a rock and not give a damn.

I'm from a generation that STILL to this day beleives that lying or being deceitful about something you pay for, is just plain wrong. Is it illegal, unfortunately not, is it morally wrong? hell yes.

If you are going to call it live sing it live. If it's not live, then it's simply "entertainment" or a show.

THANK YOU!!

[jrnyman28]

Here's a thought: Journey is going to limp through this tour. Then, Jon has mentioned that they are going to take next year to write for a new CD (after a possible Euro tour). Who can say how long the writing will take but this will be their "excuse" to not tour AND to give Steve a break. And they can do this without ever addressing the "issue". Personally, I hope it works. The UK tour will probably "fall through", then they start writing together. Legitimately writing together for as long as takes to get a good, solid, group effort. Then they can take their time rehearsing, recording the new music. Get it mixed right. We could see Journey "out of the spotlight until 2008 giving Steve almost 2 years to take care of his "issues".

[Red13JoePa]

Like the sound of it, J28.

[JrnySuxBalls]

Then, Jon has mentioned that they are going to take next year to write for a new CD (after a possible Euro tour). Who can say how long the writing will take but this will be their "excuse" to not tour AND to give Steve a break. And they can do this without ever addressing the "issue".

That would be great. Write something better than Generations, and get Augeri a new vocal coach.
Looks like his current one isn't quite working out.

[A Fire Inside]

Here's a thought: Journey is going to limp through this tour. Then, Jon has mentioned that they are going to take next year to write for a new CD (after a possible Euro tour). Who can say how long the writing will take but this will be their "excuse" to not tour AND to give Steve a break. And they can do this without ever addressing the "issue". Personally, I hope it works. The UK tour will probably "fall through", then they start writing together. Legitimately writing together for as long as takes to get a good, solid, group effort. Then they can take their time rehearsing, recording the new music. Get it mixed right. We could see Journey "out of the spotlight until 2008 giving Steve almost 2 years to take care of his "issues".

I love this idea.

[cetera]

For anyone who read the Herbie Herbert interview found somewhere out there on the 'net in which he basically seems to state that Perry has Messrs Schon & co. by the short and curlies contractually, as in Perry gets paid whenever any of his songs get performed by present-day Journey - maybe someone can correct me on that ?

That's true Andy, though he hardly has them by the short & curlies. It is perfectly normal for any songwriter (who is having his music performed) to receive a portion of the royalty earned from the 'Performing Right'. Therefore, any ex-member/songwriter of any well known band will receive their due from live performance royalties. In this particular case Perry will receive his percentage of the live royalty as do Schon/Cain/Rolie or whoever wrote/co-wrote each song performed...

However, they do not continue to get a cut of box-office takings, merchandise etc unless they are still a 'partner' in a 'corporation' formed before they left/were fired.....

Hope this helps (I work in the live music copyright/royalties business)

[JrnySuxBalls]

It sounded to me more like an agreement than a royalties situation. SP gets a cut from each show
as a result of signing over the name "Journey" to Neal & Jon. He's gotten a cut (who knows the amount), since 1998.

[Rockindeano]

I'm all for optimism, but you are dreaming if you think there will ever be a new cd, a new dvd, another tour, or Augeri again after this year. His voice damage is irreversible, sadly, and that is why they have used tape for almost a year now.

You are supposed to go out on a high, not spiraling into the abyss.

[wildone]

I'm all for optimism, but you are dreaming if you think there will ever be a new cd, a new dvd, another tour, or Augeri again after this year. His voice damage is irreversible, sadly, and that is why they have used tape for almost a year now.

You are supposed to go out on a high, not spiraling into the abyss.

Spiraling????Hell they jumped in head first!!!

[Lilla_Forever]

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

Well said bionic, I agree 100%. When your basic ability to perform is not there, you should pack it in. As you mention, there are plenty of bands out there who manage fine without technical assistance. This is assuming that Journey is using tapes, of course... I am not totally convinced but I do smell a big rat

[cetera]

I'm all for optimism,

Surely you mean persecution.....?!?