It's all about Command & Control...

[Matthew]

It doesnt matter how good you are, if you become a Primadonna, or an ego maniac, you have to go, its as simple as that

A band is just that, theres gotta be harmony. Weall heard Perry say that he always felt like an outsider, and the band being aghast at the comment. They clearly didnt get along with him in the end, it made for disharmony.

Theres a side to Perry thats obviously hard to get along with. So much so, that they decided that they wld rather carry on without him, than be "resting up" for another 10 yrs !!!!

As far as output goes, Perry is bone idle. Just when is he gonna do something new? Active, inspired musicians just cant sit on their arses for ever, they got to be creating. He lost the "muse" many years ago. He was burnt out and used up
His time has been. A great time, but its history now, we cant go back there, except to put a CD on or a DVD.

Yes - Journey has been so inspired and creative since Perry left....playing the same old hits from the 1980s night after night in concert. The band have made a career out of 'going back there'. At least Perry kept his dignity.

I'd say Journey are history too. Unless JSS can pull off a miracle that is....

At least they are out there gigging...putting their necks on the block. not an a lifetime sabbatical !!! What does Perry do with his time, knit baby bootees

Well, Perry has been looking after the legacy...producing two DVDs...remastering the back catalogue...ensuring that Journey's glory days will be remembered in years to come.

Have Journey really been putting their necks on the block? What...lip-synching to twenty-year old hits to drunk middle-aged people on cruise ships and casinos? Do you think this is in some way courageous?

[conversationpc]

Where does the buck stop?
For Christs's sake, he's the vocalist, he's the one out their faking. C'mon!
If he did it for the good of the band, that is all the more reprehensible.
It shows his loyalty lies with lining the guys' coffers, and not with the fans.

You're right. The buck should've stopped with Augeri. However, if the backing vocals are also taped, then the other guys are faking it, too.

[McNeil]

No doubt Perry had ego problems - no one ever questions that. I am still ticked that he bullied his way of getting rid of the Scarab on Frontiers and getting rid of Ross and Smitty for ROR.

However, when you talk about success, Journey has ZERO without him - either before or after Perry.

Heck, even Perry alone had success with Oh Sherrie, Foolish Heart, and at least some air play with Strung Out and You Better Wait.

The thing about Perry is that he knew to hang it up when he couldn't bring it anymore. I respect that. Heck, the guy is almost in his sixties - I don't expect him to release anything new.

Although I would love to hear him cover some classic motown on a CD. Not even tour, just get in the studio where his voice can be relaxed and croon out some stuff.

Perry is not guiltless. However, he had that something special. Augeri never had any of that.

Yeah, he was special.... the original voice no doubt. Im glad that you have taken on board his age etc etc. There is no way he is ever returning to a stage to do those songs again, in those keys, ever...ever!

He is right to leave it as it is. His legacy remains untarnished, vocally speaking. To return again, and fuck up wld stain his memory. Leave well alone Mr Perry, stay the fuck out of it !

[brywool]

I saw Perry on the ROR tour. I much prefer Journey with Augeri than a declining Perry.

You know what's weird is that I saw both the Frontiers and the ROR tour. I remember not liking Perry as much during the Frontiers tour, but really liking him on the ROR tour.
I recently listened to the 83 Philadelphia show and also the ROR show from Philly a few years later. Although Perry actually cracks on some of the tunes on the ROR tour recording, his vocal feel and soul was much better. It was more like it was during Escape and earlier tours. However, I noticed on the 83 tour that everything was played superduper fast and Perry was kind of barking out a lot of the lyrics. Just didn't have any feel to me. That's when I remembered that I wasn't that impressed with the Frontiers tour. Plus he had that wanky mustache! Thought he was the pizza guy!

Speaking of the Frontiers tour... Remember the "Frontiers and Beyond" video? The ONE clip that gets shown over and over and over again in interviews, retrospectives, etc. is when they're doing LTS and there's one GUY in the audience that thinks he's Perry doing all the moves and the head bob and all that during the Nah Nahs. It drives me crazy that that image is burned into my brain. Anybody else have this problem????

[A Fire Inside]

Yes - Journey has been so inspired and creative since Perry left....playing the same old hits from the 1980s night after night in concert.

Hey, they tried the new music. They tried with Arrival AND Red 13 AND Generations. They got the "two headed" looks. People just don't want to hear new stuff when they go to relive their youth.

And it's Journey's prerogative if they want to keep touring. Obviously Neal enjoys playing live, and why shouldn't he capitalize on what he's already been successful with? I mean, Perry's rehashing his Greatest Hits + 5 for God's sake. How is that any better?

[NealIsGod]

All Perry is into these days is releasing old stuff to make more dough. I don't blame him, but he doesn't seem interested in getting back in the biz.

[TRAGChick]

I saw Perry on the ROR tour. I much prefer Journey with Augeri than a declining Perry.

You know what's weird is that I saw both the Frontiers and the ROR tour. I remember not liking Perry as much during the Frontiers tour, but really liking him on the ROR tour.
I recently listened to the 83 Philadelphia show and also the ROR show from Philly a few years later. Although Perry actually cracks on some of the tunes on the ROR tour recording, his vocal feel and soul was much better. It was more like it was during Escape and earlier tours. However, I noticed on the 83 tour that everything was played superduper fast and Perry was kind of barking out a lot of the lyrics. Just didn't have any feel to me. That's when I remembered that I wasn't that impressed with the Frontiers tour. Plus he had that wanky mustache! Thought he was the pizza guy!

Speaking of the Frontiers tour... Remember the "Frontiers and Beyond" video? The ONE clip that gets shown over and over and over again in interviews, retrospectives, etc. is when they're doing LTS and there's one GUY in the audience that thinks he's Perry doing all the moves and the head bob and all that during the Nah Nahs. It drives me crazy that that image is burned into my brain. Anybody else have this problem????

YUP - he's right up front, pointing up in the air - and he has a mustache....right?

...and if I'm not mistaken, he's wearing a Members Only jacket...ick!

[Matthew]

Yes - Journey has been so inspired and creative since Perry left....playing the same old hits from the 1980s night after night in concert.

Hey, they tried the new music. They tried with Arrival AND Red 13 AND Generations. They got the "two headed" looks. People just don't want to hear new stuff when they go to relive their youth.

And it's Journey's prerogative if they want to keep touring. Obviously Neal enjoys playing live, and why shouldn't he capitalize on what he's already been successful with? I mean, Perry's rehashing his Greatest Hits + 5 for God's sake. How is that any better?

Well, that's possibly a reflection of the mediocrity of Journey's last three records. But yes...the old hits will always get the warmest response.

Why is the reissue of GH better? It features Perry's voice...which Journey's current rendition of Perry era classics does not.

Journey have been 'capitalizing' on past success in an unsuccessful way. That's the problem. Other bands have managed to tap into the lucrative nostalgia market without diminishing their stature or reputation.

Anyway...a Journey record with JSS might allow them to get the balance right...and who knows? They might write a couple of decent new songs which might not get a tumbleweed response. I'm sure JSS could work up the crowd if they did, say, "Believe In Me" or something strong like that.

[Matthew]

All Perry is into these days is releasing old stuff to make more dough. I don't blame him, but he doesn't seem interested in getting back in the biz.

Maybe - but it's possible that his reasons aren't entirely financial. It seems natural that a guy in his late fifties would become preoccupied by how his work will be remembered.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Other bands have managed to tap into the lucrative nostalgia market without diminishing their stature or reputation.

Such as....?

[A Fire Inside]

Journey have been 'capitalizing' on past success in an unsuccessful way. That's the problem. Other bands have managed to tap into the lucrative nostalgia market without diminishing their stature or reputation.

Which bands? Bands whose 'famous' singers are still there, right? Remember that Perry has had an open invitation to come back, but he's always left them hanging, so it's not all their fault he's gone. Which classic rock bands are doing nostalgia (or frankly have better than "mediocre" current releases) without diminishing their stature?

[NealIsGod]

YUP - he's right up front, pointing up in the air - and he has a mustache....right?

...and if I'm not mistaken, he's wearing a Members Only jacket...ick!

You still got that jacket, SaintJohn?

[Matthew]

Other bands have managed to tap into the lucrative nostalgia market without diminishing their stature or reputation.

Such as....?

The Eagles...Aerosmith....KISS (up to 2004).....U2 (yes, their new albums are successful...but "Pride", "With Or Without You", "New Year's Day" etc are the songs which most people want to hear)....The Rolling Stones (although it could be argued that they lost credibility in 1978)....Def Leppard (album in the charts, touring the US with Journey as their support act)....Peter Gabriel....DuranDuran....Billy Joel.....

Okay - some of these acts are bigger than Journey ever were...but most have enjoyed similar levels of success in the past.

And of course...all these acts haven't used replacement singers. So I guess it was inevitable that Journey would become a C-list act after Perry's departure.

[Matthew]

Journey have been 'capitalizing' on past success in an unsuccessful way. That's the problem. Other bands have managed to tap into the lucrative nostalgia market without diminishing their stature or reputation.

Which bands? Bands whose 'famous' singers are still there, right? Remember that Perry has had an open invitation to come back, but he's always left them hanging, so it's not all their fault he's gone. Which classic rock bands are doing nostalgia (or frankly have better than "mediocre" current releases) without diminishing their stature?

The 'open invitation' was an insult. They fired Perry and then said, 'come back and sing with the guy who replaced you.' It's a ridiculous and patronizing offer to make.

Yes - Perry left them hanging on ther TBF tour. But surely the smart move would have been to ensure at all costs that they could record another album with Perry. The TBF tour was already all fucked up in 1998 - and they didn't do a TBF tour with Augeri. So why not give Perry additional time? Had Journey released a another album with Perry the band wouldn't have drifted into an era which has just ended in failure and disgrace. At worst there would have been no activity...but Journey's stature and dignity would have been maintained.

I know many people have enjoyed Journey's records and tours since 1998...but looking at it objectively the experiment hasn't worked out. And for me...it hasn't been 'better than nothing'.

[brywool]

I saw Perry on the ROR tour. I much prefer Journey with Augeri than a declining Perry.

You know what's weird is that I saw both the Frontiers and the ROR tour. I remember not liking Perry as much during the Frontiers tour, but really liking him on the ROR tour.
I recently listened to the 83 Philadelphia show and also the ROR show from Philly a few years later. Although Perry actually cracks on some of the tunes on the ROR tour recording, his vocal feel and soul was much better. It was more like it was during Escape and earlier tours. However, I noticed on the 83 tour that everything was played superduper fast and Perry was kind of barking out a lot of the lyrics. Just didn't have any feel to me. That's when I remembered that I wasn't that impressed with the Frontiers tour. Plus he had that wanky mustache! Thought he was the pizza guy!

Speaking of the Frontiers tour... Remember the "Frontiers and Beyond" video? The ONE clip that gets shown over and over and over again in interviews, retrospectives, etc. is when they're doing LTS and there's one GUY in the audience that thinks he's Perry doing all the moves and the head bob and all that during the Nah Nahs. It drives me crazy that that image is burned into my brain. Anybody else have this problem????

YUP - he's right up front, pointing up in the air - and he has a mustache....right?

...and if I'm not mistaken, he's wearing a Members Only jacket...ick!

YES! That guy is so dorky! Drives me nuts!

[The_Noble_Cause]

The 'open invitation' was an insult. They fired Perry and then said, 'come back and sing with the guy who replaced you.' It's a ridiculous and patronizing offer to make.

Yes - Perry left them hanging on ther TBF tour. But surely the smart move would have been to ensure at all costs that they could record another album with Perry. The TBF tour was already all fucked up in 1998 - and they didn't do a TBF tour with Augeri. So why not give Perry additional time? Had Journey released a another album with Perry the band wouldn't have drifted into an era which has just ended in failure and disgrace.

I can't believe nearly 10 years after the fact we are still re-hashing this same old shit.

*Perry refused to sing at Herbie's roast with Journey.
*Refused to sing with Journey at the Bammie awards.
*Refused to add new vocals on the Time3 box set for the fans.
*Was stubborn to tour for Frontiers.
*Cut ROR tour short.
*Cut FTLOSM tour short.
*Reneged on touring in support of TBF.
*Still not singing (in any substantive way) to this day...

Anyone else seeing a pettern here?

And the band even considered the idea of recording another album with Perry and having Augeri tour behind it.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Yes - Perry left them hanging on ther TBF tour. But surely the smart move would have been to ensure at all costs that they could record another album with Perry.

Why in the Blue Fuck would they want to record another lame-ass album with Perry??? Wasn't TBF enuff evidence for you that the Perry/Cain/Schon writing chemistry was gone??? Schon and Cain, and Journey for that matter, are better off staying as far away from Perry as possible![/b]

[Matthew]

The 'open invitation' was an insult. They fired Perry and then said, 'come back and sing with the guy who replaced you.' It's a ridiculous and patronizing offer to make.

Yes - Perry left them hanging on ther TBF tour. But surely the smart move would have been to ensure at all costs that they could record another album with Perry. The TBF tour was already all fucked up in 1998 - and they didn't do a TBF tour with Augeri. So why not give Perry additional time? Had Journey released a another album with Perry the band wouldn't have drifted into an era which has just ended in failure and disgrace.

I can't believe nearly 10 years after the fact we are still re-hashing this same old shit.

Nor can I....I'm even boring myself. I'll happily change the subject.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wasn't TBF enuff evidence for you that the Perry/Cain/Schon writing chemistry was gone???

The majority of songs are more mellow, but the chemistry wasn't gone.
Most of the rockers are great.
There's just too much sacharine pap on there.

[Matthew]

Yes - Perry left them hanging on ther TBF tour. But surely the smart move would have been to ensure at all costs that they could record another album with Perry.

Why in the Blue Fuck would they want to record another lame-ass album with Perry??? Wasn't TBF enuff evidence for you that the Perry/Cain/Schon writing chemistry was gone??? Schon and Cain, and Journey for that matter, are better off staying as far away from Perry as possible![/b]

TBF was undoubtedly the weakest of all the Perry/Schon/Cain albums...but it's far superior to the soulless, sloppy, hook-free and badly-produced records that came after it.

[NealIsGod]

MOL and ICSIIYE are the only two rockers worthy of the Journey name on that turd, and one of those was a bonus track.

[The_Noble_Cause]

MOL and ICSIIYE are the only two rockers worthy of the Journey name on that turd, and one of those was a bonus track.

CTTL and OM are both fantastic.
There is too much hyperbole being bandied about in this thread.
I don't think Journey has ever released a thoroughly disposable album (though ROR comes closest!)

[Matthew]

MOL and ICSIIYE are the only two rockers worthy of the Journey name on that turd, and one of those was a bonus track.

Journey never really 'rocked' that hard though did they? I mean...they've been a bit girly since 1978...

[Matthew]

MOL and ICSIIYE are the only two rockers worthy of the Journey name on that turd, and one of those was a bonus track.

CTTL and OM are both fantastic.
There is too much hyperbole being bandied about in this thread.
I don't think Journey has ever released a thoroughly disposable album (though ROR comes closest!)

I reckon "Departure" comes closest...but otherwise I totally agree...

[NealIsGod]

MOL and ICSIIYE are the only two rockers worthy of the Journey name on that turd, and one of those was a bonus track.

CTTL and OM are both fantastic.

Those tunes bore the crap out of me. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[A Fire Inside]

Journey never really 'rocked' that hard though did they? I mean...they've been a bit girly since 1978...

Hello, Frontiers?

[conversationpc]

MOL and ICSIIYE are the only two rockers worthy of the Journey name on that turd, and one of those was a bonus track.

CTTL and OM are both fantastic.
There is too much hyperbole being bandied about in this thread.
I don't think Journey has ever released a thoroughly disposable album (though ROR comes closest!)

I agree on CTTL and OM, though I don't care for OM quite as much. I've never gotten into ICSIIYE, though. It's an okay track, but has never really done much for me. I certainly would've preferred its inclusion over "Baby I'm a Leavin' You", though.

[NealIsGod]

Journey never really 'rocked' that hard though did they? I mean...they've been a bit girly since 1978...

Hello, Frontiers?

Dead or Alive, Line of Fire, Where Were You, ESC4P3... jeez...

[Matthew]

Journey never really 'rocked' that hard though did they? I mean...they've been a bit girly since 1978...

Hello, Frontiers?

Oh sure..but it's not exactly Metallica is it? Most of the songs still have a pop element in there somewhere - and plus "Send Her My Love", "Faithfully" and "After The Fall" wouldn't scare anyone's parents would they?

[Matthew]

Journey never really 'rocked' that hard though did they? I mean...they've been a bit girly since 1978...

Hello, Frontiers?

Dead or Alive, Line of Fire, Where Were You, ESC4P3... jeez...

I'm not saying that Journey didn't rock at all...I'm just saying that they aren't a hard rock band.