Doesn't it speak volumes......

[McNeil]

.every pro live DVD is overdubbed..its standard bleedin practise ffs!!!! If you think that the record company is gonna let major product out with flubs on it, you live in laa laa land!!

Dude, if you think the DVD 2001 is live, you are so wrong it isn't funny. Augeri's vocals were so bad, they had to throw his ass in a studio to redo the vox.

I still watch that DVD, and catch my breath at times, witnessing a kind of rebirth of Journey, that I thought would not be possible

Do you get hard watching that bumbling fool in his hot red leather pants shuffling back and forth like a white MC Hammer?
Are you one of those fat, ridiculous BT housewives?

So what if his voice blew out... it doesnt rub out all the good stuff that went before... I still play Arrival alongside Frontiers, and it stands up

Now I know you are retarded. Stands up to Frontiers? My God, go choke your chicken or some shit.

Im a Perryhead, and Augeriloon too... and proud of it ...haha

Two words:

Drug Test.

you no readie ploperly stloopid boy!!

I never said the DVD was live.... WTF u on about?? who are you quoting?, certainly not me. You dont back read threads do you? Oh sorry, you were on "vacation" werent you! Then dig yr "Dame Edna" specs out n go looksie, if you did you will know I have dissed Augeri harshly on several occasions..Sorry Im not sitting in any one camp here..I like both Perry and Augeri..not convenient is it?

I know there was shady stuff going on, so what? my world didnt end like yours, and wtf... u change your opinion like the wind..JSS sucks one minute, then hes "the real deal" the next Augeri was great, now hes the devil in kinky reds.. make your mind up? you dont even know your own mind, never mind analysing mine, Prof Deano, you certainly aint, so stop picturing me on yr little (red) leather couch, with a note book in your hand , coz you have zero credibility in your beliefs

Analyse this:

I said every official DVD release by anyone is doctored...big fucking deal...go spin on my middle digit, but dont make it stink, and push yr hemz in before you do!

Sorry, those of you with sensitive natures, but I gotta "descend" a little to rap with Deano

Two words:

Get The Fu*K ..sorry, needed three

Nothing personal, but I will defend myself when challenged by anyone here, dont care if they are the "big cheese" or the "little gimp" everyone is treated equally... respect for an opinion earns my respect, bullshit begets my bullshit. and this is firmly in Bovine Faeces territory.. u can smell it a mile off

now if u got something factual to tell all of us , thats not complete bullcrap, please enlighten us, come n pool the info you have. You have information u wanna share with the group? were all friends here, dont be shy! ...dreamer

Of course, you approach this from a decidedly biased point of view, seeing as how, you maintain that it was you that single handedly brought down the Journey plane from the skies. You cannot be objective, it is beyond you. In a court of law, you would be ejected from the jury before the start, as unsuitable.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Faith In The Hearland

Schon/Cain/Augeri

With Jon and Neal's names both listed at the forefront and presumably the two principal writers of the track. Neal is on record saying he brought the riff in from PlanetUs/Sirkus and the lyrics have Jonathan's syrupy fingerprints all over them.
Fine me a classic Journey song where Augeri's name does not take a subordinate backseat to others.

Aside from maybe "Beyond the Clouds", Augeri has expressed as much chemistry with his bandmates as the inanimate cheeseburger in my avatar.

[Red13JoePa]

YOU presume the order they;re mentioned in is an indication of contribution level.

Again, he cowrote almost 1/2 of Arrival and Gens and at least 1/3 of Red13. I'm estimating on the conservative side, not having the credits w/ me. You act like he barely wrote a note with Jrny and that's not true, at least not to anything but your propensity to exaggerate.

I'm not saying he was Perry prolific, but you make him out to be Roger Daltry whjo wrote/cowrote almost zippo for The 'Oo in 4o years.

[fred_journeyman]

YOU presume the order they;re mentioned in is an indication of contribution level.

Agreed. The order does NOT necessarily indicate level of contribution.

[The_Noble_Cause]

YOU presume the order they're mentioned in is an indication of contribution level.

Yes. That is what I wrote. While your hearing faculties have obviously declined, it's good to see that you are still capably literate.

Again, he cowrote almost 1/2 of Arrival

And the other half was written by outside writers. An unprecedented Journey first.

at least 1/3 of Red13.

Half of which was Arrival left overs

You act like he barely wrote a note with Jrny and that's not true, at least not to anything but your propensity to exaggerate.

Perry's name is on nealy every song they wrote.
Soto's name is all over Sirkus.
That's what I'm loooking for.
Someone with direction.
No more milquetoast pussies.

[Red13JoePa]

"milquetoast pussy?"


Hell, I would love to see you fight Augeri. He would pummel you into tears and have you running to hide behind deano in 20 seconds.

[jrnyman28]

With Jon and Neal's names both listed at the forefront and presumably the two principal writers of the track.

By that logic Perry really WAS the reason for all of Journey's success since his name was always listed first!

[jrnyman28]

Again, he cowrote almost 1/2 of Arrival

And the other half was written by outside writers. An unprecedented Journey first.

Because much of Arrival was written before Augeri was hired! Jon and Neal had gotten together and started writing before they even knew what was going to happen with Perry. And Neal lives near Jack which led to those contributions...

[The_Noble_Cause]

Hell, I would love to see you fight Augeri.

I have no desire to fight him. He is battling enough demons at the moment.

He would pummel you into tears and have you running to hide behind deano in 20 seconds.

How do you know what Augeri is capable of physically?
You sound like one of those Perrynutbags that fantasizes on what Perry's hair smells like.
Egads, man!

[jrnyman28]

.every pro live DVD is overdubbed..its standard bleedin practise ffs!!!! If you think that the record company is gonna let major product out with flubs on it, you live in laa laa land!!

Dude, if you think the DVD 2001 is live, you are so wrong it isn't funny. Augeri's vocals were so bad, they had to throw his ass in a studio to redo the vox.

So they may not have been "live" Steve Augeri vocals (although I don't believe the entire thing was re-recorded) but ehy were Steve Augeri vocals.

[The_Noble_Cause]

By that logic Perry really WAS the reason for all of Journey's success since his name was always listed first!

Perhaps you feel that way. I don't.
It does show that he was integrally involved in the creative process.
As it should be.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Because much of Arrival was written before Augeri was hired!

So they said. But didn't they take a tour off to compose & record the album? Even with this respite from touring, Augeri's involvement was minimal. I had hoped that the band would ultimately gel and Augeri's influences and sensibilities would shine thru. But for whatever the reason, it never happened.

[jrnyman28]

By that logic Perry really WAS the reason for all of Journey's success since his name was always listed first!

Perhaps you feel that way. I don't.
It does show that he was integrally involved in the creative process.
As it should be.

You just said that because Neal and Jon were listed first that they must have contributed the most...but now you say you don't feel that way when Perry's name is listed first?

[jrnyman28]

Because much of Arrival was written before Augeri was hired!

So they said. But didn't they take a tour off to compose & record the album?

They took time off to record Arrival...yes. And I am sure there was still some writing to do which is how Steve ended up on the songs he did.

Even with this respite from touring, Augeri's involvement was minimal. I had hoped that the band would ultimately gel and Augeri's influences and sensibilities would shine thru. But for whatever the reason, it never happened.

I have agreed that there was no "real" chemistry when it comes to writing and recording...but I think there is so much more to it than just Steve...

[Abitaman]

Neal and Augeri never even wrote a full song together at the time of his hiring.

Actually they worked on some songs to see if anything was there when they tried out Augeri, but nothing was said about making a complete song-ERIC

My only problem, and I really wouldn't call it a problem, was Augeri tried to sound like he was trying to write like Perry, instead of running with tunes like he did on Tall Stories, or Tyketto

[NoMoreTails]

They were too busy touring to do anything else.

JSS and Neal composed the near immaculate SoulSirkus record in just a handful of weeks.
Lush melodies used to come flowing forth from Neal and Perry like a fountainhead.
That era also toured at a fervent pace.
Again, this boils down to group chemistry.
.

I think it boils down to hunger as writers and musicians. Jeff and Neal had it for SS, Neal's for the music he wrote for Planet US.
Journey had it in the late 70s-81, I don't think Jon and Neal have had that hunger for a while for Journey, at least since the wind was taken out of Arrival's sails by Sony and Napster.
By the way, Neal and JSS didn't sit down together and come up with SS, Neal had the music basically done, sent it to JSS for his contribution.

[NoMoreTails]

BECAUSE THEY WERE *CONSTANTLY* ON TOUR.

You mean to say they couldn't install a recording studio on the bus like they have done with JSS?/[quote]

I seem to recall hearing that Jon was writing for one of his solo albums while on tour with Journey, why not write for Journey? Neal worked on his solo stuff between tours and Jon played Mr. Mom while not on tour or recording solo stuff...

[fred_journeyman]

...I don't think Jon and Neal have had that hunger for a while for Journey...

And I think that with the infusion/inclusion of JSS in the mix, that "hunger" might just be on the upswing. I'm ready now to give them that chance to see if/what happens.

I doubt that I'll go to a live concert though until/unless I hear new music.

[NoMoreTails]

.
I have "SoulSirkus" in my grubby little hands and it owns.
It's tangible, it's real.
His chemistry with Neal isn't hearsay or rumor, it's manifestly evident...

I agree with this, and I love SS, but the fact is, most Journey fans hated it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

By that logic Perry really WAS the reason for all of Journey's success since his name was always listed first!

Perhaps you feel that way. I don't.
It does show that he was integrally involved in the creative process.
As it should be.

You just said that because Neal and Jon were listed first that they must have contributed the most...but now you say you don't feel that way when Perry's name is listed first?

Fuck you and your pathetic attempt to bog me down in weasel words.
If Perry's name came first it can be assumed that he had a degree of creative involvement (though I have heard accounts that reute that.)
Regardless of the name order, one man is not responsible for all of Journey's success.

[The_Noble_Cause]

most Journey fans hated it.

MOST Journey fans don't even know it exists.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Actually they worked on some songs to see if anything was there when they tried out Augeri, but nothing was said about making a complete song-ERIC

I know, that's why I specified and said "never wrote a full song".

[NoMoreTails]

most Journey fans hated it.

MOST Journey fans don't even know it exists.

Good point, revise that to hardcore Journey fans that know the album cuts, not just greatest hits and followed their entire careers up to the present, those who have commented on SoulSirkus at BT, this forum, and particularly the Melodicrock Noticeboard. Not that I agree with them. I was shocked at the people who supposedly are melodic rock fans there who said SS had no melody???? I do think whatever new music Neal, Jon, and Jeff would create would be interesting, but will it have the Journey feel to it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I was shocked at the people who supposedly are melodic rock fans there who said SS had no melody????

Me too, man.
In fact, I post-poned listening to it.
I figured it would be grating.
Just harsh discordant shredding.
I was pleasantly suprised.
Very melodious.
With a little tweaking, some of the songs could've went to Journey.

[fred_journeyman]

...If Perry's name came first it can be assumed that he had a degree of creative involvement (though I have heard accounts that reute that.)
Regardless of the name order, one man is not responsible for all of Journey's success.

From what I understand, that name order was decided by the band...in a closed room...away from society. I happened to be a fly on the wall at one of those sessions. It went like this:

PERRY: Okay, we've got a new album out and we need to list credits. Any ideas?
NEAL: Um...how about?
PERRY: Me first? Thanks Neal.
NEAL: Well, what I meant was...
PERRY: Jon? I know you wrote most of ESCAPE. What's your verdict?
JON: You know...it probably should be...
PERRY: Me first? Excellent. Thanks Jon.
JON: Uh...yeah, okay.
PERRY: Ross?
ROSS: You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
PERRY: All right, that's four agreeing to list me first.

Perry leaves the room. The rest of the guys turn to each other.

NEAL: Uh...what just happened?
JON: Forget it. In ten years, no one will even care whose name comes first!
ROSS: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

From what I understand, that name order was decided by the band...in a closed room...away from society. I happened to be a fly on the wall at one of those sessions. It went like this:

PERRY: Okay, we've got a new album out and we need to list credits. Any ideas?
NEAL: Um...how about?
PERRY: Me first? Thanks Neal.
NEAL: Well, what I meant was...
PERRY: Jon? I know you wrote most of ESCAPE. What's your verdict?
JON: You know...it probably should be...
PERRY: Me first? Excellent. Thanks Jon.
JON: Uh...yeah, okay.
PERRY: Ross?
ROSS: You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
PERRY: All right, that's four agreeing to list me first.

Perry leaves the room. The rest of the guys turn to each other.

NEAL: Uh...what just happened?
JON: Forget it. In ten years, no one will even care whose name comes first!
ROSS: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's actually not too far off from what I've heard...

[NoMoreTails]

From what I understand, that name order was decided by the band...in a closed room...away from society. I happened to be a fly on the wall at one of those sessions. It went like this:

PERRY: Okay, we've got a new album out and we need to list credits. Any ideas?
NEAL: Um...how about?
PERRY: Me first? Thanks Neal.
NEAL: Well, what I meant was...
PERRY: Jon? I know you wrote most of ESCAPE. What's your verdict?
JON: You know...it probably should be...
PERRY: Me first? Excellent. Thanks Jon.
JON: Uh...yeah, okay.
PERRY: Ross?
ROSS: You know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
PERRY: All right, that's four agreeing to list me first.

Perry leaves the room. The rest of the guys turn to each other.

NEAL: Uh...what just happened?
JON: Forget it. In ten years, no one will even care whose name comes first!
ROSS: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's actually not too far off from what I've heard...

I'd sure like to know the specifics, but it's obvious it had to be to sooth one of Perry's tantrums, now way he contributed the most to every song. Maybe he came up with some alternative method of alphabetizing...

So how can you have better chemistry writing with someone you hate (Perry), than someone everybody thinks is a team player, nice guy, great guy to have on a tour bus (Augeri)?
One thing that may have been missing from Augeri era Journey is songs of misery, if you're into that kind of thing. Lost love, etc. The most recent Journey songs have been from family guys with long standing relationships, feeling good about life for the most part....vs. the nearly constant down and out-ed-ness of Perry.

[Carlitto H@kk]

One thing that may have been missing from Augeri era Journey is songs of misery,

Or, aside from HP, FITH and 1 or 2 others, how about the PURE JOURNEY MAGIC that spewed out of Schon, Cain and Perrys' asses like Niagra Falls back in the day? THAT'S what was missing the most...

...And yes, I think Jeff can conjure up that magic with Neal and Jon.

[NoMoreTails]

One thing that may have been missing from Augeri era Journey is songs of misery,

Or, aside from HP, FITH and 1 or 2 others, how about the PURE JOURNEY MAGIC that spewed out of Schon, Cain and Perrys' asses like Niagra Falls back in the day? THAT'S what was missing the most...

...And yes, I think Jeff can conjure up that magic with Neal and Jon.

Aare you calling that "magic" shit?
Seriously, I think there's alot more than a few from the Augeri era.

[fred_journeyman]

So how can you have better chemistry writing with someone you hate (Perry), than someone everybody thinks is a team player, nice guy, great guy to have on a tour bus (Augeri)?

That love/hate thing can really make things happen, no doubt!

One thing that may have been missing from Augeri era Journey is songs of misery, if you're into that kind of thing. Lost love, etc. The most recent Journey songs have been from family guys with long standing relationships, feeling good about life for the most part....vs. the nearly constant down and out-ed-ness of Perry.

Could very well be. Look at Alice in Chains and other groups like that.

I'm not so sure that Augeri was "Mr. Nice" though. I'm rethinking that...