Replacing Augeri Mid-Tour IS NOT COOL

[conversationpc]

I'm so tired of people talking shit. At least you have the balls to speak your mind and don't back down when challenged.

For that matter, I don't think there are many here who back down at all.

[Lula]

I'm so tired of people talking shit. At least you have the balls to speak your mind and don't back down when challenged.

For that matter, I don't think there are many here who back down at all.

You sir are correct!

[Carlitto H@kk]

He's done well (Azoff) with others. I'd say that bottom line is he did the best with what he had to work with.

I'm not buying that, no offense. With the right amount of Management push and full-blown promotion, Arrival (whether you liked it or not) could've been big. I still don't understand how 'Higher Place' didn't become a certified smash. There was enough good material on that album that, if they did some videos and pushed a few singles to the radio stations, they could have had the same success as bands like Bon Jovi and Aerosmith have had over the past 8 years.
The only big question I have is whether Azoff did try this and the band just wasn't intrested or did Azoff continually drop the ball?

[The_Noble_Cause]

This isnt a one hit wonder or some novelty band. We are talking about Journey. What a damn joke!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally it tells me that all of Augeri's talk about respecting and cherishing the legacy was just that - empty twaddle.
His opprobrious antics nearly sank Journey and all of it's members respective careers.
From here on out, he doesn't even deserve to front the house band at the Ritz Carlton.

[lights1961]

He's done well (Azoff) with others. I'd say that bottom line is he did the best with what he had to work with.

I'm not buying that, no offense. With the right amount of Management push and full-blown promotion, Arrival (whether you liked it or not) could've been big. I still don't understand how 'Higher Place' didn't become a certified smash. There was enough good material on that album that, if they did some videos and pushed a few singles to the radio stations, they could have had the same success as bands like Bon Jovi and Aerosmith have had over the past 8 years.
The only big question I have is whether Azoff did try this and the band just wasn't intrested or did Azoff continually drop the ball?

The biggest mistake on Arrival was not releasing WORLD WIDE IN OCT 2000...It would then have beaten the napster downloading...and Arrival **might** have been a top 20 CD instead of charting at 56...as it started out..and plunged from there.. Radio would have found higher place and all the way...and maybe kiss me soflty... But NOOOO.. they waited Until April 2001..... 5 months after the Japan release date...

Rick

[sadie65]

This isnt a one hit wonder or some novelty band. We are talking about Journey. What a damn joke!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally it tells me that all of Augeri's talk about respecting and cherishing the legacy was just that - empty twaddle.
His opprobrious antics nearly sank Journey and all of it's members respective careers.
From here on out, he doesn't even deserve to front the house band at the Ritz Carlton.

I think blame lies equally within the band. Artistic integrity isn't limited to the lead singer. They were all complicit. And it hasn't changed simply because they changed lead singers. I wish them well, however I think it naive to lay blame at the feet of one and not all.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If it were wrong then there'd either be REAL, VERIFIABLE proof of it....

If that were the case, Deano would be sitting in a gulag right now.
Here's a neat experiement:
Pick a band that doesn't lipsynch, start a blog accusing them and then go on various radio shows and says that they do.
See how long you get away with it before you're smacked alongside the head by a class action lawsuit.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Artistic integrity isn't limited to the lead singer.

Where does the buck stop?

[fred_journeyman]

The only big question I have is whether Azoff did try this and the band just wasn't intrested or did Azoff continually drop the ball?

I agree. I personally think that Azoff could have done exceptionally well with Journey, but for one reason or another, didn't put much if any effort into them. Of course, some will think that because Perry wasn't with the group, why should Azoff even try? Then, he should have ponied up and said, "You know what guys? Without Perry, I think you're sunk. I really can't do anything for you. I'm quitting." He didn't. He kept taking money from the band to do exactly WHAT?

He needs to be gone and they need someone who can take the time to get the band to be what they can be with Soto. In short, they need someone who believes in the band and is willing to WORK like they do.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The biggest mistake on Arrival was not releasing WORLD WIDE IN OCT 2000...It would then have beaten the napster downloading...and Arrival **might** have been a top 20 CD instead of charting at 56...as it started out..and plunged from there.. Radio would have found higher place and all the way...and maybe kiss me soflty... But NOOOO.. they waited Until April 2001..... 5 months after the Japan release date...

Rick

Yeah, but u have to admit the Japanese version of Arrival featured a really unsatisyfing track list.
If the Napster leak hadn't forced Neal to change it up, "Arrival" would probably be the mellowiest Journey album ever.
Yes, even more mellow and drab than TBF.

[sadie65]

Artistic integrity isn't limited to the lead singer.

Where does the buck stop?

With the entire band.

A band is supposed to made up of team. If one member does something that is deemed unacceptable to the team and the rest accept it anyway...then I would say they are all guilty.

[fred_journeyman]

Personally it tells me that all of Augeri's talk about respecting and cherishing the legacy was just that - empty twaddle.

"Twaddle." I LIKE that!

His opprobrious antics nearly sank Journey and all of it's members respective careers.

Yep!

From here on out, he doesn't even deserve to front the house band at the Ritz Carlton.

Couldn't agree more. The guy - if what we've heard is true - is a sad case for the rock world. He wouldn't even make it on Rock Star: Supernova!

[The_Noble_Cause]

A band is supposed to made up of team. If one member does something that is deemed unacceptable to the team and the rest accept it anyway...then I would say they are all guilty.

To a lesser extent, yes.
Rationalize it this way; Neal and everyone else was playing their asses off.
They were actually earning their bread.
The tapes were for the vocalist.
The buck stops with him.

[NealIsGod]

Hey, TNC. How can Augeri be solely to blame? On one hand, he has no power in Journey, just a lame duck hired hand with no writing chemistry with Neal and Jon, someone who Neal wanted out anyway. Yet it was Augeri's idea to play tapes, he is the mastermind behind the charade, and the band just went along with it?

No insults, please. Just a real answer.

[fred_journeyman]

With the entire band.

A band is supposed to made up of team. If one member does something that is deemed unacceptable to the team and the rest accept it anyway...then I would say they are all guilty.

That's too easy. It's easy to forget that a manager - in this case Azoff - has a certain amount of "power" and has the ability to at least TRY enforce his ideas on the band. Who really knows how much of this involved him? Was he involved at all? Did he persuade the guys to "go with it?" Did he ignore it and let the guys do it on their own?

You know, these guys just want to create and play music. I doubt seriously that they want to have to deal with all the sh*t that comes down the pike! They're musicians, for goodness sakes, not politicians!

It's not the band. It's Augeri...

[sadie65]

With the entire band.

A band is supposed to made up of team. If one member does something that is deemed unacceptable to the team and the rest accept it anyway...then I would say they are all guilty.

That's too easy. It's easy to forget that a manager - in this case Azoff - has a certain amount of "power" and has the ability to at least TRY enforce his ideas on the band. Who really knows how much of this involved him? Was he involved at all? Did he persuade the guys to "go with it?" Did he ignore it and let the guys do it on their own?

You know, these guys just want to create and play music. I doubt seriously that they want to have to deal with all the sh*t that comes down the pike! They're musicians, for goodness sakes, not politicians!

It's not the band. It's Augeri...

I disagree. I work with individuals I would rather not for reasons that most everyone has. I do so because I believe it is in my best interest to do so. These men are no different. Certainly management directives play a role, but ultimately the decision to go forward by all involved under dubious (at best) circumstances has to lie with the men. They are adults, they made a choice.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Hey, TNC. How can Augeri be solely to blame?

I didn't say he is soley to blame. I said the buck stops with him. The tapes were for him and for his failings. Neal, Jon and Deen don't have arthritis. That's the genuine artifact you're hearing when those guys take to the stage.

On one hand, he has no power in Journey

Oh, I don't know that at all. Deen's sister once posted on BT that each bandmate is an equal partner.

just a lame duck hired hand with no writing chemistr

What does writing chemistry have to do with defrauding the hard working masses?

Yet it was Augeri's idea to play tapes

Find me the post where I said that.
It simply never happened.

he is the mastermind behind the charade

Never said that either.

No insults, please. Just a real answer.

Can't give you one.
You're questions aren't realistic, and aren't so much questions as they are the ramblings from a clearly frustrated fan.
Go change your sn to AugerisGod.

[NealIsGod]

This isnt a one hit wonder or some novelty band. We are talking about Journey. What a damn joke!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally it tells me that all of Augeri's talk about respecting and cherishing the legacy was just that - empty twaddle.
His opprobrious antics nearly sank Journey and all of it's members respective careers.
From here on out, he doesn't even deserve to front the house band at the Ritz Carlton.

This sure seems like you are placing the entire blame on Augeri to me. "His antics"? Not "the band's antics"? Sure, it was his voice that was suffering, but do you really think tapes would have been used without Neal and Jon's approval?

[Red13JoePa]

If it were wrong then there'd either be REAL, VERIFIABLE proof of it....

If that were the case, Deano would be sitting in a gulag right now.

Not if the band chose to shrug, yawn, and brush it off as crackpots going off half-cocked. How many times do you see famous people actually go after the normal regular peeps who slander them somehow?
Something tells me this is EXACTLY what tapegate was counting on. The risk and likelihood that the band would never justify it by answering to it having the two-fold effect of allowing it to go on totally unabated while giving tapegaters the opportunity to accuse them of dodging with their silence.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This sure seems like you are placing the entire blame on Augeri to me. "His antics"? Not "the band's antics"?

Again, where does the buck stop.
The rest of the band is culpabale to a lesser extent.

Sure, it was his voice that was suffering, but do you really think tapes would have been used without Neal and Jon's approval?

For years now, Neal has been proudly saying "we are not a pro-tools band!".
That's EXACTLY what his band had been transmogrified into for the past 2.5 tours.
I assume this was his worst nightmare come to life.

[Red13JoePa]

DeTour, Generations and now half of this tour? So, are you now accusing JSS of lipping b/c Augeri was only on this tour for a handful of stops.


2.5 would cover the DeTour, Gens and well into JSS' tenure.

Sure about this?

[The_Noble_Cause]

How many times do you see famous people actually go after the normal regular peeps who slander them somehow?

Honestly? A whole lot.
Do you have any idea how often the tabloids get sued?

Something tells me this is EXACTLY what tapegate was counting on.

Is TAPEGATE a sentient being or something? A political movement? You throw that term around alot.

[The Cimmerian]

Hey, TNC. How can Augeri be solely to blame? On one hand, he has no power in Journey, just a lame duck hired hand with no writing chemistry with Neal and Jon, someone who Neal wanted out anyway. Yet it was Augeri's idea to play tapes, he is the mastermind behind the charade, and the band just went along with it?

No insults, please. Just a real answer.

I don't believe Augeri is solely to blame. The band had to agree with the workaround, and they would have to follow the musical cues to make sure they didn't go off tangent. Even JC is rumored to use tapes of his own keyboards. So it was ALL OF THEM.

Who came up with the workaround? Was it Augeri? Or was it the band? Did the soundman recommend it? Who knows? Did Augeri threaten the band? I doubt it, since the workaround was for him, and any threats of lawsuits would ring hollow... he doesnt have a voice to stand on. Did Neal want to get rid of Augeri? I've never seen evidence of that. Neal just wants to play music!!!

Honestly, when they were doing the workaround, I honestly believe they didnt think it was that big a deal. Lots of bands do it. I think it was when they were discovered, that they were forced to come up with an alternative: JSS. It was a hand they were forced to deal.

I for one am happy about JSS... I was already a fan of his work.

Eventually, this will all be forgotten. Nobody in the general public really cares, and the workaround has been done away with. I saw them live a few weeks ago, and it was definitely LIVE. It's all over.

[The_Noble_Cause]

DeTour, Generations and now half of this tour? So, are you now accusing JSS of lipping b/c Augeri was only on this tour for a handful of stops.

The .5 represents just the earliest portion of the Leppard tour.
The 2 is inclusive of Gens and the UK mini tour.
Don't be so damn literal.

And if u want to get down to it, there was some shenanigans going on during Detour, as well.
But its all water over the bridge now.

[NealIsGod]

How many times do you see famous people actually go after the normal regular peeps who slander them somehow?

Honestly? A whole lot.
Do you have any idea how often the tabloids get sued?

A tabloid is the press. A regular person with a blog is not.

[sadie65]

How many times do you see famous people actually go after the normal regular peeps who slander them somehow?

Honestly? A whole lot.
Do you have any idea how often the tabloids get sued?

Something tells me this is EXACTLY what tapegate was counting on.

Is TAPEGATE a sentient being or something? A political movement? You throw that term around alot.

Only going to point out that tabloids do not equate as "regular people". It is their business to publish "information" on those in the public eye. A little different than "regular people" making statements about those in that public eye.

Carry on.

[Red13JoePa]

Don't talk to me about tabloids. I said normal (loose term here, we know), everyday people.

Not tabs, who have 100s of tousands even millions to pay out punitively.

The answer is NEVER. there's nothing to gain by going after every joe schmo who slanders you. No financial gain, and unwanted attention to falsehoods.

THAT is what is counted on.

[Red13JoePa]

DeTour, Generations and now half of this tour? So, are you now accusing JSS of lipping b/c Augeri was only on this tour for a handful of stops.

The .5 represents just the earliest portion of the Def tour.
Don't be so damn literal.

Don't be so literal? Aren't you always the one who demands "Show me where I said that?"
I'm showing you where you said it.
OK, fuck it, just exend tapegate back to Vacas over if you feel like it.

You SAID 2.5 making an accusation on all of DeTour and half this tour, with JSS in the chair.

[The_Noble_Cause]

A tabloid is the press. A regular person with a blog is not.

He might as well be.
His blog was discussed on several radio shows across the country.

[NealIsGod]

A tabloid is the press. A regular person with a blog is not.

He might as well be.
His blog was discussed on several radio shows across the country.

So was the woman who called 911 for a date. Is she the press?