Here's a Thought About the Band...

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's always amused me when I see members over at BT talk about how Journey should be playing music from Generations. For what it's worth, I thought Generations sucked ass (Damn, it's so liberating to be able to say that here without listening to everyone whine about an honest opinion like at the other site). If Journey started playing music from Generations at one of their concert, I'd quickly head for the exits, and I've been a Journey fan since 1978!

Plenty of valid material on the record.
You just have too short of an attention span to stick with it.
If you want immediacy, only buy GH compilations.

[fred_journeyman]

As JSS said himself on this very forum...Most of the fans they encounter are shocked to learn that Perry isn't with Journey any longer!...

I agree that this type of fan makes up the audience, but I really wonder if it is "most of the fans" at a Journey concert. Since no one is officially polling the audience, then there is no way to know, however I personally doubt that most of the fans at a Journey concert are not aware that Steve Perry is no longer with the group. That might have been the case during the few years after they reformed, however for those fans that continue to think that, they are truly the casual fan. Certainly, the ones who have been attending the concerts every year are aware that Perry is no longer fronting the band; either that, or they're way beyond stupid.

In either case, it is because Journey continues to ride on the notoriety of the classic tunes that they encounter any fans who still believe Perry is in the band. It's Journey's own fault for that since they've done virtually nothing to signal to their audiences that they are no longer the band that was made famous with Perry at the vocal front. So, the current Journey should be shocked when they meet fans who go, "Wow, you mean Steve Perry is no longer with you guys?!" Uh...hmm...let's see, the band continues to play the music made famous by Perry and shows no signs of moving on really. Duh, gee Tennessee, that's not surprising to me at least.

As far as playing past hits live in concert, I have absolutely NO problem with that. When I go to see ANY band in concert, I expect some of that. What I do NOT expect nor appreciate is a band that continues to play the same DAMN songs year after year after year after year after year, while looking at themselves as if they are the most amazing band alive. They could have been, but chose the path of least resistance.

The classic tunes should be put into one or two medleys of hits with the larger portion of the live concert being dedicated to totally new material. If Journey isn't willing to f*ckin' do that, then they have absolutely NO business complaining when people refer to them as a nostalgia band. Frankly, they sounded infinitely better when Perry was at the helm singing the classics.

I'm actually beginning to feel sorry for Perry that his name is associated with a band that plays the classics and nothing but the classics year after year after year, like a broken record.

Two things for this band: 1) once and for all, break free of the "We're here to play nothing but the classics" routine, or 2) get the classic line-up back and do it right (even if the keys have to be lowered, given the possibility that Perry cannot hit the highs anymore).

[The_Noble_Cause]

After that? I think Journey should call it QUITS!

I'm not sure these guys could do that even if they wanted to. Herbie says that financially they need to go out on tour each year.
If JSS should develop a node I have no doubt his ass will be thrown overboard, as well.
This will pave the way for the rightful heir to the Journey throne, Kevin Chalfant!

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm actually beginning to feel sorry for Perry that his name is associated with a band.......

I'm sure he's crying all the way to the bank.
Don't feel too sorry.

[fred_journeyman]

After that? I think Journey should call it QUITS!

I'm not sure these guys could do that even if they wanted to. Herbie says that financially they need to go out on tour each year.
If JSS should develop a node I have no doubt his ass will be thrown overboard, as well.
Then will pave the way for the rightful heir to the Journey throne, Kevin Chalfant!

WARNING!! WARNING!! WARNING!! THE FOLLOWING SENTIMENTS ARE MY OPINION!!!

I agree completely. If they continue as they are, that's the scenario.

[fred_journeyman]

I'm sure he's crying all the way to the bank.
Don't feel too sorry.

I doubt that he needs the money. Receiving payment is the "penalty tax" the guys have to pay for moving on without Perry, but capitalizing on his sound/talent.

I bet if Perry knew it was going to come down to this, he probably would have fought harder to keep them from going out under the Journey banner.

[Enigma869]

It's always amused me when I see members over at BT talk about how Journey should be playing music from Generations. For what it's worth, I thought Generations sucked ass (Damn, it's so liberating to be able to say that here without listening to everyone whine about an honest opinion like at the other site). If Journey started playing music from Generations at one of their concert, I'd quickly head for the exits, and I've been a Journey fan since 1978!

Plenty of valid material on the record.
You just have too short of an attention span to stick with it.
If you want immediacy, only buy GH compilations.

I guess "valid" is in the eye of the beholder. I stand by my opinion that Generations is the worst cd that Journey has ever put out. The fact that they felt compelled to let every guy in the band sing lead vocals made the cd sound like a bad American Idol episode! There is a reason a band has a lead singer! Only The Eagles should ever even attempt to allow all band members to sing lead, and that's only because the guys in The Eagles actually can all sing and sing well! Please save me the horror of having to listen to Jonathan Cain, Neal Schon, and Ross Valory singing vocals! I think my ears were bleeding for two months after listening to that abortion of a CD!

John from Boston

[Enigma869]

As JSS said himself on this very forum...Most of the fans they encounter are shocked to learn that Perry isn't with Journey any longer!...

The classic tunes should be put into one or two medleys of hits with the larger portion of the live concert being dedicated to totally new material. If Journey isn't willing to f*ckin' do that, then they have absolutely NO business complaining when people refer to them as a nostalgia band. Frankly, they sounded infinitely better when Perry was at the helm singing the classics.




No argument from me, here! Perry always sounded better singing classic Journey songs for a reason...He was the man who made them famous. I don't believe a replacement singer can ever sound as good as the original!

John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

I guess "valid" is in the eye of the beholder. I stand by my opinion that Generations is the worst cd that Journey has ever put out.

If "Departure" was released tommorow, fans like yourself would complain that the whole album is shit with the exception for "Any Way You Want It".
Not every Journey song has to be an immediate toe-tapper top 40 friendly pop tune.
With that said, I think the album contains a few of them.

The fact that they felt compelled to let every guy in the band sing lead vocals made the cd sound like a bad American Idol episode!

Journey albums have feartured a multiple vocalists in the past. Even the Perry-era had Neal on "People and Places".

There is a reason a band has a lead singer!

Augeri's vocal capability was fading at that point. Why give him the majority of new material if he was overburdened already as it was?

Only The Eagles should ever even attempt to allow all band members to sing lead, and that's only because the guys in The Eagles actually can all sing and sing well! Please save me the horror of having to listen to Jonathan Cain, Neal Schon, and Ross Valory singing vocals! I think my ears were bleeding for two months after listening to that abortion of a CD!

There's more to a song than vocals.
Go purchase your Celine Dion tickets, pussyman.

[Enigma869]

I guess "valid" is in the eye of the beholder. I stand by my opinion that Generations is the worst cd that Journey has ever put out.

If "Departure" was released tommorow, fans like yourself would complain that the whole album is shit with the exception for "Any Way You Want It".
Not every Journey song has to be an immediate toe-tapper top 40 friendly pop tune.
With that said, I think the album contains a few of them.

The fact that they felt compelled to let every guy in the band sing lead vocals made the cd sound like a bad American Idol episode!

Journey albums have feartured a multiple vocalists in the past. Even the Perry-era had Neal on "People and Places".

There is a reason a band has a lead singer!

Augeri's vocal capability was fading at that point. Why give him the majority of new material if he was overburdened already as it was?

Only The Eagles should ever even attempt to allow all band members to sing lead, and that's only because the guys in The Eagles actually can all sing and sing well! Please save me the horror of having to listen to Jonathan Cain, Neal Schon, and Ross Valory singing vocals! I think my ears were bleeding for two months after listening to that abortion of a CD!

There's more to a song than vocals.
Go purchase your Celine Dion tickets, pussyman.

Thanks for such a friendly reply. What the hell is your problem? Someone doesn't agree with you and they're a pussy? I'll refrain from stooping to your level. Your response tells me that you don't have enough connected brain cells in your head to debate something in an intelligent manner without resorting back to being 12 years old!

John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

Thanks for such a friendly reply. What the hell is your problem? Someone doesn't agree with you and they're a pussy?

In a word, yes.

You want coddling? Then go back to BT.
Welcome to the no-holds-barred pandemonium which is MR.com

I'll refrain from stooping to your level. Your response tells me that you don't have enough connected brain cells in your head to debate something in an intelligent manner without resorting back to being 12 years old!

Why can't one be cogent and stomach-turningly vulgar at the same time.
Why must it either be one or the other?
I've never quite understood that.....

Your turn shitface!

[caboshooter]

Oh my..... how many times have we heard that the 'old band' should reunite to do a final tour, etc... How many times will anything post-Perry be considered many things, but never Journey by some? Steve Perry was certainly an integral part of the Journey sound and success, but to minimize the rest is absurd. I am as big a fan of Steve Perry than anyone here. I'm also a Journey fan. Ultimately I am a Neal Schon fan. To have all of the music being kept alive is a good thing. In all honesty, as I've said before, I would much rather be seeing Soul SirkUS on tour than a Journey greatest hits tour. Now that there have been some personnel changes we might be treated to a variety of songs on any given night/tour. I am all for seeing what JSS brings to the Schon/Cain writing table, his stage presence and talent are already apparent. I love World Play and it is clear Neal has a vocalist to play to/with in JSS. I have seen a new Journey on stage full of energy and excitement in the music. Bring on Journey with JSS at the helm! Screw the 'old' shit!

OMG Lula - you took the words right out of my mouth!!!

"I would much rather be seeing Soul SirkUS" AMEN SISTER!!!!

[Enigma869]

Thanks for such a friendly reply. What the hell is your problem? Someone doesn't agree with you and they're a pussy?

In a word, yes.

You want coddling? Then go back to BT.
Welcome to the no-holds-barred pandemonium which is MR.com

I'll refrain from stooping to your level. Your response tells me that you don't have enough connected brain cells in your head to debate something in an intelligent manner without resorting back to being 12 years old!

Why can't one be cogent and stomach-turningly vulgar at the same time.
Why must it either be one or the other?
I've never quite understood that.....

Your turn shitface!

Hey...I'm impressed you used (and even used it correctly!) cogent in a sentence! I guess I was a bit too harsh saying you didn't have any connected brain cells. You are apparently slightly educated and just choose to be an ass! I'm okay with that too. Also, for what it's worth, I can assure you that I don't need any of the BT "coddling". Even though I've posted at BT for 5 years, I think it's a ridiculous site (I just learned about this site, and am still learning just how no holds barred it truly is!). It is at least nice to see different opinions here, as opposed to BT where the same things are said over and over again. In any event, Generations still SUCKS! If you think it's a great (or even good) cd, good for you. Just keep it as far away from my ears as possible. One final note...I think Anyway You Want It sucks too! (you mentioned that might be a Journey song I loved)

John from Boston

[fred_journeyman]

... Even though I've posted at BT for 5 years, I think it's a ridiculous site (I just learned about this site, and am still learning just how no holds barred it truly is!).

This is nothing. If you ever posted at VH-1's Journey/Perry boards, you'll know what "no holds barred" truly is...

It is at least nice to see different opinions here, as opposed to BT where the same things are said over and over again. In any event, Generations still SUCKS! If you think it's a great (or even good) cd, good for you. Just keep it as far away from my ears as possible. One final note...I think Anyway You Want It sucks too! (you mentioned that might be a Journey song I loved)

John from Boston

Here is one of the big problems with posting on ANY board related to ANY subject: people consistently think because someone offers an OPINION, that they have a right to shoot it down as if that person offering that opinion is one huge asshole. I've been guilty of that myself. The truth is that all opinions are valid - AS LONG AS THE PERSON OFFERING THE OPINION TRULY BELIEVES IT AND ISN'T JUST SHINING EVERYONE ON.

I like some of GENERATIONS. I canNOT stand the following tunes anymore:

OPEN ARMS
ANYWAY YOU WANT IT
LOVIN' TOUCHIN' SQUEEZIN'
FAITHFULLY

...and a few others. They have all gotten so old, that they suck, big time! Frankly, I don't care to even hear Perry perform them. Now, the previous comments are my opinion. Will others disagree with me? Of course they will. Are they right? Of course they are...for themselves only. Do they need to ridicule me for MY opinion? Of course not. They do because it makes them feel important, as if they're vociferous complaints about my opinion will somehow change my opinion. I don't think so. No amount of sarcasm, arguing, ridicule or anything else is going to get me to all of a sudden start liking the songs that I've listed above that I do NOT like. No amount of sarcasm, ridicule or anything else is going to get me to change my opinion about the two choices that I believe (notice the opinion there!) Journey has in front of them. These are my opinions and, like assholes, everyone has one and we're all right. It's the pile of shit for brains who thinks that they have to be smartass "know-it-alls" all the time and force everyone into THEIR line of thinking as if God reached down and gave THEM the tablets of stone.

I'm reminding myself of this as well...I realize that I can be a pain in the ass sometimes, but sarcasm is a hell of a lot more fun than being polite sometimes (at least for me), but it gets lost in the translation on this board because no one can "hear" the tone of my voice or "see" my facial expressions as I'm delivering it. I'm not being vindictive necessarily. To me, it's all tongue-in-cheek, however I know it's lost here.

Journey is on its way down and out. They can prove me wrong if they want to (and I hope they do), but that's simply the way I see it.

[A Fire Inside]

Even though I've posted at BT for 5 years, I think it's a ridiculous site (I just learned about this site, and am still learning just how no holds barred it truly is!). It is at least nice to see different opinions here, as opposed to BT where the same things are said over and over again.

No holds barred and different opinions unless you happen to either not agree with Deano or still kind of like Augeri.

[A Fire Inside]

If "Departure" was released tommorow, fans like yourself would complain that the whole album is shit with the exception for "Any Way You Want It".
Not every Journey song has to be an immediate toe-tapper top 40 friendly pop tune.
With that said, I think the album contains a few of them.

Journey albums have feartured a multiple vocalists in the past. Even the Perry-era had Neal on "People and Places".

Augeri's vocal capability was fading at that point. Why give him the majority of new material if he was overburdened already as it was?

There's more to a song than vocals.
Go purchase your Celine Dion tickets, pussyman.

Wow, I completely agree with you, NC.

[heardonthestreet]

I think the old band should get back together (with either Cain or Rolie; but Rolie won't do it, so go with Cain), with Smith on drums, Perry on vox, then they should do a limited engagement tour. Maybe record either a new live CD, DVD or both during the process. After that? I think Journey should call it QUITS!

No matter what they produce from now on (and some would include ARRIVAL, GENERATIONS and RED 13), it isn't Journey.

I seriously doubt that Journey can convince me that they are still Journey. They can try and if they DO produce a new CD, I'll give it a listen, but the oneness is on them to prove me wrong.

................................................
batfanman? Is it really you?

[fred_journeyman]

................................................
batfanman? Is it really you?

Hey HOTS,

It's me. Read it and weep...

[X factor]

You know I found it amazing that after all these years and all the albums they have released, there are these handful of these people who want to limit the 'Journey sound' to the only three albums they like, Escape, Frontiers and ROR.

A simple question: I find it very weird lots of people (I'm not directing this at you, cubby 69 ) are referring to ROR as one of the classics Journey records and sound , while I find it very different from what they sounded before.
It is much more a mix of Perry solo sound and Journey's more pop oriented songs, with funky (Once You love somebody, The Eyes of a Woman) thrown in.
If I had to define what is the classic Journey sound, this record's not in at all.

Cheers!

AMEN!!! I don't count ROR as anything, but perhaps the giant turd that it is. Classic Journey? Can you say EVOLUTION? INFINITY? Hello????

One thing I find interesting- it seems to me that the "new" Journey is actually playing a much more varied set list than they get credit for. Granted I haven't seen this lineup live, but from what I know they've dug out EOTB, Still they Ride, Mother Father, and not too mention the plethora of old shit they dug out on their EVENING OF JOURNEY tour...(or whatever the hell they called it) I think this will only increase with JS in the lineup. SO...while like many of you I'd love to see the originals in a stadium tour, why not enjoy this rockin lineup they have now? As Tom Petty likes to say "The good old days might not return..."

Of course, it looks like EVH just opened the door for a reunion with DLR, so I guess ANYTHING can happen....

[heardonthestreet]

................................................
batfanman? Is it really you?

Hey HOTS,

It's me. Read it and weep...

...........................

I am! I'm weeping for those empty Nike's on stage. You certainly had a way with words, and still do.

[fred_journeyman]

One thing I find interesting- it seems to me that the "new" Journey is actually playing a much more varied set list than they get credit for.

They did start varying it more. Looking back, it's probably due to the fact that Augeri's vocals were strained, so Deen took up part of the slack.

Granted I haven't seen this lineup live, but from what I know they've dug out EOTB, Still they Ride, Mother Father, and not too mention the plethora of old shit they dug out on their EVENING OF JOURNEY tour...

You know, I went to a concert during that tour and for goodness sakes, it didn't seem ANY different to me as far as the type of music they played. All I remember is the same ol' same ol' classics and Ross and making a snide aside related to Perry.

(or whatever the hell they called it) I think this will only increase with JS in the lineup.

Ah, who cares? I'm more interested in NEW music, than just about ANY of the old material with this line-up.

[fred_journeyman]

I am! I'm weeping for those empty Nike's on stage. You certainly had a way with words, and still do.

You think he'll wear Nike's on stage? I doubt it. Remember when he wore those Kangaroos (I think that's what they were called)? I almost bought a pair way back when. He needs to go with Shox on stage now.

Who knows, maybe we'll see the likes of him yet. I still doubt it, but then again he did say that he'd like to put out another CD before he dies (my paraphrase).

Anyway...what was I sayin'...?

Oh yeah, time to move on!

[Enigma869]

All I remember is the same ol' same ol' classics and Ross and making a snide aside related to Perry.

(or whatever the hell they called it) I think this will only increase with JS in the lineup.

Ah, who cares? I'm more interested in NEW music, than just about ANY of the old material with this line-up.

This confirms what I've always believed. Ross is a moron! Way to go...Piss off a bunch of die hard Journey fans who still love Perry. Ross has always been the most irrelevant band member. The guy could disappear tomorrow and not be missed by most!

John from Boston

[fred_journeyman]

This confirms what I've always believed. Ross is a moron! Way to go...Piss off a bunch of die hard Journey fans who still love Perry. Ross has always been the most irrelevant band member. The guy could disappear tomorrow and not be missed by most!

John from Boston

He was introducing a song from one of the first three albums - I forget which album and which song; I think they played two or three songs from pre-Perry albums - and after he named the song, people started clapping and then he said something like, "Thanks. Yeah, there WAS a band before Steve Perry."

If he did disappear, I just hope they don't get Jackson to replace him...other than him, I'm fine..."dawg."

[Enigma869]

This confirms what I've always believed. Ross is a moron! Way to go...Piss off a bunch of die hard Journey fans who still love Perry. Ross has always been the most irrelevant band member. The guy could disappear tomorrow and not be missed by most!

John from Boston

He was introducing a song from one of the first three albums - I forget which album and which song; I think they played two or three songs from pre-Perry albums - and after he named the song, people started clapping and then he said something like, "Thanks. Yeah, there WAS a band before Steve Perry."

If he did disappear, I just hope they don't get Jackson to replace him...other than him, I'm fine..."dawg."

Yeah...I don't think Randy would be sliding into those spandex pants any longer Ross has that same mentality some of the yahoos on BT have and whine about all the time "There was a Journey before Perry"! As I've always said to the yahoos...Yes, there was a Journey before Perry, but there aren't 10 people outside the Bay Area who knew they existed before Perry's voice was added to the mix!

John from Boston

[fred_journeyman]

Yes, there was a Journey before Perry, but there aren't 10 people outside the Bay Area who knew they existed before Perry's voice was added to the mix!

John from Boston

John, you will have to adjust that figure. I know you're exaggerating, but if you look at the video when Fleischman was with the group, Journey was playing an outdoor concert and there were a TON of people there! It's been a while since I've seen the vid, but to me, it looked like a sea of people...all right, maybe it was just a very large pond, but it was a LOT of people. I do not know if Journey was playing with another band, but at least at that point, they were on stage and people seemed pretty excited about it.

Journey had a following. They just didn't have any radio play.

[EightyRock]

Journey...musically stale for years now, IN MY OPINION. Each CD, EP since Augeri has been gradually worse. Living on hits, revelant as an 80's nostalgia gig, alone or with another nostalgia band, UNLESS they start playing newly written material...not 2 or 3 songs. The chance was there after Arrival was released and to keep doing it for 8 years. People would recognize the songs by now who frequent the concerts. They had no chemistry with Augeri. Arrival was their best of 3 Augeri-era releases and he didn't even co-write any of the songs. Very little of the material was supported in concert. Then, Augeri's voice bites the dust and they roll tape. They went from bad to worse and kept on going. If they went through ALL of that and are still doing nothing but GH's with JSS next year, then I'm over it. This winter, let's see if they write a new FULL CD with Jeff, find a label that will support them at least SOMEwhat, and then PLAY the material in concert. I've got all the CD's. DVD's. remasters of the remasters of the remasters. I don't need any more GH's in concert (unless they have an Perry reunion) and I don't need to purchase anymore GH's concert tickets just for a freebe CD or EP. How much more obvious can it get that they are doing it for their bank account ? It will be interesting to see if JSS being onboard really changes anything at all next tour. I predict a milk the Euro's GH's tour next, since Soto is popular there.

[A Fire Inside]

I know you're exaggerating, but if you look at the video when Fleischman was with the group, Journey was playing an outdoor concert and there were a TON of people there! It's been a while since I've seen the vid, but to me, it looked like a sea of people...all right, maybe it was just a very large pond, but it was a LOT of people. I do not know if Journey was playing with another band, but at least at that point, they were on stage and people seemed pretty excited about it.

And that concert was in Hawaii no less!

http://www.robertfleischman.com/FreeCon ... P:%20582px

[Enigma869]

Yes, there was a Journey before Perry, but there aren't 10 people outside the Bay Area who knew they existed before Perry's voice was added to the mix!

John from Boston

John, you will have to adjust that figure. I know you're exaggerating, but if you look at the video when Fleischman was with the group, Journey was playing an outdoor concert and there were a TON of people there! It's been a while since I've seen the vid, but to me, it looked like a sea of people...all right, maybe it was just a very large pond, but it was a LOT of people. I do not know if Journey was playing with another band, but at least at that point, they were on stage and people seemed pretty excited about it.

Journey had a following. They just didn't have any radio play.

Hey Fred...

You're a perceptive guy...I was indeed exaggerating My point has always been...I realize that Journey had some following before Perry came along. That said, I will never believe Journey would have become one quarter of what they became without Herbie Herbert forcing Perry on the guys in Journey. I admittedly don't know a lot about Journey pre-Perry. I knew they existed and released 3 albums or so, but not much beyond that. I also know that they were a VERY different band, playing VERY different music, before Perry came on board. Perry's voice and Cain's songwriting genius (after Cain replaced Rolie) made Journey what they became.

John from Boston

[RPM]

"I also know that they were a VERY different band, playing VERY different music, before Perry came on board. Perry's voice and Cain's songwriting genius (after Cain replaced Rolie) made Journey what they became. "


No question about it John, and Steve Perry made sure to give thanks to Herbie
at the walk of fame, I was surprised he did though with all the horrible bitter things that herbie now says about him, but Steve took the high Road.....