Lula wrote:Saint John,
I am not "harping" on the deaths of civilians. I am stating a fact that Iraqi civilians are being killed, with the beginning of the killings being the invasion. I do not think the U.S. targets civillians, come on..... I know that there will be horrible and unfortunate events happening during war. W invaded Iraq- no question there, the question is why?? His reasons are unclear to me. WMDs? Liberation? Democracy? Terrorists? And the big one..... 9/11? Dude, in my opinion, the U.S. was so very wrong to invade and occupy Iraq based on the evidence... or lack there of, that has been provided. Of course, I will be hard pressed to agree to any invasion and occupation.
"I am stating a fact that Iraqi civilians are being killed, with the beginning of the killings being the invasion." Are you serious? Hussein was killing them for the last 30 years. I'll address that later, but here's the WMD FACTS. Unless of course, you believe Saddam, a man who along with his sons cut out tongues, mutilated men and enjoyed raping women. I tend NOT to. PLEASE READ ALL OF THE FOLLOWING!!!!
The following should clear up ANY doubt about Hussein having Weapons of Mass Destruction. Also of importance: In 1998, President Clinton insisted that regime change in Iraq was necessary. Anyway, below are excerpts from Bush...clearly outlining that Al-qaeda will not be the only target in the war on terror. IT IS SOMEWHAT LONG, BUT WELL WORTH READING!!!!
State of Union address 2003
America is making a broad and determined effort to confront these dangers. We have called on the United Nations to fulfill its charter and stand by its demand that Iraq disarm.
For the next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He pursued chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, even while inspectors were in his country. Nothing to date has restrained him from his pursuit of these weapons -- not economic sanctions, not isolation from the civilized world, not even cruise missile strikes on his military facilities.
The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.
The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.
U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.
The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities.
The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary; he is deceiving. From intelligence sources we know, for instance, that thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors, sanitizing inspection sites and monitoring the inspectors themselves. Iraqi officials accompany the inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses.
Iraq is blocking U-2 surveillance flights requested by the United Nations. Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as the scientists inspectors are supposed to interview. Real scientists have been coached by Iraqi officials on what to say. Intelligence sources indicate that Saddam Hussein has ordered that scientists who cooperate with U.N. inspectors in disarming Iraq will be killed, along with their families.
With nuclear arms or a full arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, Saddam Hussein could resume his ambitions of conquest in the Middle East and create deadly havoc in that region. And this Congress and the America people must recognize another threat. Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help them develop their own.
And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country -- your enemy is ruling your country. (Applause.) And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation. (Applause.)
Feb speech to the American Enterprise institute.
In Iraq, a dictator is building and hiding weapons that could enable him to dominate the Middle East and intimidate the civilized world -- and we will not allow it. (Applause.) This same tyrant has close ties to terrorist organizations, and could supply them with the terrible means to strike this country -- and America will not permit it. The danger posed by Saddam Hussein and his weapons cannot be ignored or wished away. The danger must be confronted. We hope that the Iraqi regime will meet the demands of the United Nations and disarm, fully and peacefully. If it does not, we are prepared to disarm Iraq by force. Either way, this danger will be removed. (Applause.)
The safety of the American people depends on ending this direct and growing threat. Acting against the danger will also contribute greatly to the long-term safety and stability of our world. The current Iraqi regime has shown the power of tyranny to spread discord and violence in the Middle East. A liberated Iraq can show the power of freedom to transform that vital region, by bringing hope and progress into the lives of millions. America's interests in security, and America's belief in liberty, both lead in the same direction: to a free and peaceful Iraq. (Applause.)
The first to benefit from a free Iraq would be the Iraqi people, themselves. Today they live in scarcity and fear, under a dictator who has brought them nothing but war, and misery, and torture. Their lives and their freedom matter little to Saddam Hussein -- but Iraqi lives and freedom matter greatly to us. (Applause.)
Bringing stability and unity to a free Iraq will not be easy. Yet that is no excuse to leave the Iraqi regime's torture chambers and poison labs in operation. Any future the Iraqi people choose for themselves will be better than the nightmare world that Saddam Hussein has chosen for them. (Applause.)
If we must use force, the United States and our coalition stand ready to help the citizens of a liberated Iraq. We will deliver medicine to the sick, and we are now moving into place nearly 3 million emergency rations to feed the hungry.
We will also lead in carrying out the urgent and dangerous work of destroying chemical and biological weapons. We will provide security against those who try to spread chaos, or settle scores, or threaten the territorial integrity of Iraq. We will seek to protect Iraq's natural resources from sabotage by a dying regime, and ensure those resources are used for the benefit of the owners -- the Iraqi people. (Applause.)
The world has a clear interest in the spread of democratic values, because stable and free nations do not breed the ideologies of murder. They encourage the peaceful pursuit of a better life. And there are hopeful signs of a desire for freedom in the Middle East. Arab intellectuals have called on Arab governments to address the "freedom gap" so their peoples can fully share in the progress of our times.
Leaders in the region speak of a new Arab charter that champions internal reform, greater politics participation, economic openness, and free trade. And from Morocco to Bahrain and beyond, nations are taking genuine steps toward politics reform. A new regime in Iraq would serve as a dramatic and inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region. (Applause.)
Success in Iraq could also begin a new stage for Middle Eastern peace, and set in motion progress towards a truly democratic Palestinian state. (Applause.) The passing of Saddam Hussein's regime will deprive terrorist networks of a wealthy patron that pays for terrorist training, and offers rewards to families of suicide bombers. And other regimes will be given a clear warning that support for terror will not be tolerated. (Applause.)
Now for some stats on that peaceful place called Iraq under Saddam, where civilian killings only began when the U.S arrived.
1) approximately 5,000
Iranians were killed by chemical weapons between 1983 and 1988.
2)Also during the Iran-Iraq
War, there are credible reports that Iraqi forces killed several
thousand Iranian prisoners of war, which is also a war crime as well
as a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, to which Iraq is
a party.
3)Halabja. In mid-March of 1988, Saddam Hussein and his cousin Ali
Hassan alMajid -- the infamous "Chemical Ali" -- ordered the dropping
of chemical weapons on the town of Halabja in northeastern Iraq. This
killed an estimated 5,000 civilians, and is a war crime and a crime
against humanity.
4)In 1995, Human Rights
Watch published a compilation of their reports in the book Iraq's
Crime of Genocide, which is now out of print. Human Rights Watch needs
to reprint this book. Human Rights Watch estimated that between 50,000
and 100,000 Kurds were killed.
5)The invasion and occupation of Kuwait. On August 2, 1990, Saddam
Hussein ordered his forces to invade and occupy Kuwait. It took
military force by the international community and actions by the
Kuwaiti themselves to liberate Kuwait in February 1991. During the
occupation, Saddam Hussein's forces killed more than a thousand
Kuwaiti nationals, as well as many others from other nations.
6)The suppression of the 1991 uprising. In March and April of 1991,
Saddam Hussein's forces killed somewhere between 30,000 and 60,000
Iraqis, most of them civilians.
7)The draining of the southern marshes. Beginning in the early
1990's, and continuing to this day, Saddam Hussein's government has
drained the southern marshes of Iraq, depriving thousands of Iraqis of
their livelihood and their ability to live on land that their
ancestors have lived on for thousands of years. This is clearly not a
land reclamation project, or a border security project, as some of
Saddam's defenders have claimed. Instead, as groups such as the Amar
Foundation have begun to document, Saddam's efforts have served to
render the land less fertile, and less able to sustain the livelihood
or security of the Iraqi people. This qualifies as a crime against
humanity and may possibly constitute genocide.
Ethnic cleansing of ethnic "Persians" from Iraq to Iran, and an
ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing of the non-Arabs of Kirkuk and
other northern districts. This ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing
was documented by the former U.N. Special Human Rights Rapporteur for
Iraq, Max van der Stoel in his reports in 1999.
9)The regime is also
carrying out a systematic campaign of murder and intimidation of
clergy, especially Shi'a clergy. The number of those killed unlawfully
is difficult to estimate but must be well in excess of 10,000 since
Saddam Hussein officially seized power in 1980. The number of victims
of torture no doubt well exceeds the number of those killed.
10)The above statistics do NOT include mass burial sites being found all over the country today. Further evidence of mass killings and genocide. Most human rights organizations conclude he killed somewhere around a MILLION people. But, ACCORDING TO LULA, "civilians are being killed, with the beginning of the killings being the invasion."
