Retitled: Rhtyhms & Blues

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I've been promoting the idea of a Latin rhythm-flavored JOURNEY album for a few years. The time may be right now with the addition of JSS considering his Puerto Rican heritage.

The biggest complaint most people have is that an entire album would be "too much." Most people agree that 1-several tracks would be a fine experiment. This has me thinking, too.

While I still believe JOURNEY could produce an entirely unique and mind-blowing FULL album I thought a modified effort could work well, too. Back in 1986 Giuffria (the JOURNEY sound-alike band with Steve Perry-ish David Glen Eisley at vocals) produced an album titled "Silk + Steel." The silk side had more ballads and the steel side had more rockers. Neal Schon also played with this theme on his 1989 Late Nite solo album in which one side was AM (lighter music) and the other PM (heavier music).

Why not a JOURNEY Rhythm and Blues album with one side an exploration into rhythms and the other side an exploration into blues?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Dude, I admire your ill-spent persistance in chasing this rainbow pipe dream of yours, but c'mon, snap the heck out of it.
When has Journey ever looked to the fans on how to write and create their own music?
Do you know how many more productive things you could've accomplished by now during the countless hours you've spent petitioning the band for this fanciful dead-end?
Like move out of mom's basement, stop working retail, make love to a real live woman - you know, the basics.

JSS and Journey will no doubt pass the dutchie around on the bus, scribble down a few song ideas and whatever it is, it is.
Again, I admire your dogged enthusiasm, but when's enough enough?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Dude, I admire your ill-spent persistance in chasing this rainbow pipe dream of yours, but c'mon, snap the heck out of it.
When has Journey ever looked to the fans on how to write and create their own music?
Do you know how many more productive things you could've accomplished by now during the countless hours you've spent petitioning the band for this fanciful dead-end?
Like move out of mom's basement, stop working retail, make love to a real live woman - you know, the basics.

JSS and Journey will no doubt pass the dutchie around on the bus, scribble down a few song ideas and whatever it is, it is.
Again, I admire your dogged enthusiasm, but when's enough enough?

If you truly admired my persistence then you'd participate in the idea by brainstorming it with me.

I don't know when JOURNEY has ever looked to the fans for HOW to write and create music and neither do you. I do know that the fans and their personal friends inspire them. I'm not here to tell them how but rather to maybe provide some inspiration.

I'm a creative person by nature. Born that way. So any time I spend creating ideas or exploring art is time well spent. That's the boat I row.

I moved out of Mom's basement a long time ago. In fact, I never lived in the basement as mobile homes are rather like a long narrow ranch home on wheels. However my computer is now located in the basement where I live with my wife and 3 boys - so I guess that answers your question about any sexual activity.

Regarding time being wasted or spent: to each his own. You certainly have me beat by miles when it comes to time spent on this forum. I wouldn't call your time wasted or unproductive. I mean your love affair with Monker is obvious and I wouldn't want to get in between you and him in any way.

[Rockindeano]

I actually think you're idea is excellent, I just personally hope it never happens. I hate Latin crap. Now JSS might like it, because of his heritage, and that's great, but Journey has a signature sound....and it isn't Latin Crap. Neal and Rolie bolted from that shit with Santana.

They can do whatever the Hell they want, but I won't get into it if it's latin sounding.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I actually think you're idea is excellent, I just personally hope it never happens. I hate Latin crap. Now JSS might like it, because of his heritage, and that's great, but Journey has a signature sound....and it isn't Latin Crap. Neal and Rolie bolted from that shit with Santana.

They can do whatever the Hell they want, but I won't get into it if it's latin sounding.

Your point that JOURNEY has a signature sound is the point. I wouldn't ask them to change their sound. I'm merely suggesting that they explore other music more directly AND sign it with THEIR sound.

I'm sure you'd agree that EVERY JOURNEY album is DIFFERENT from the others and stand on their own however they all sound like JOURNEY the INSTANT you hear them. Whether you identify with SP's voice, Neal's guitar, Jon's or Gregg's keys, SS's or Aynsley's drums, Ross' or Randy's bass, etc. - the music has JOURNEY's signature to it.

It's a big world out there and it's getting smaller. The landscape is begging for diversity. They've produced 4 melodic rock albums that have had mixed reviews and produced little interest along with below average sales. The only exception being WYLAW from TBF being nominated for a Gran-Daddy.

It's time to do something "different" but with their signature on it.

I don't want to hear them do a JOURNEY version of Santana. I want to hear them embrace the rhythms that are in Neal's roots and sign them with that JOURNEY sound. It would be something familiar but at the same time unlike anything ever heard.

[Matthew]

I actually think you're idea is excellent, I just personally hope it never happens. I hate Latin crap. Now JSS might like it, because of his heritage, and that's great, but Journey has a signature sound....and it isn't Latin Crap. Neal and Rolie bolted from that shit with Santana.

They can do whatever the Hell they want, but I won't get into it if it's latin sounding.

Your point that JOURNEY has a signature sound is the point. I wouldn't ask them to change their sound. I'm merely suggesting that they explore other music more directly AND sign it with THEIR sound.

I'm sure you'd agree that EVERY JOURNEY album is DIFFERENT from the others and stand on their own however they all sound like JOURNEY the INSTANT you hear them. Whether you identify with SP's voice, Neal's guitar, Jon's or Gregg's keys, SS's or Aynsley's drums, Ross' or Randy's bass, etc. - the music has JOURNEY's signature to it.

It's a big world out there and it's getting smaller. The landscape is begging for diversity. They've produced 4 melodic rock albums that have had mixed reviews and produced little interest along with below average sales. The only exception being WYLAW from TBF being nominated for a Gran-Daddy.

It's time to do something "different" but with their signature on it.

I don't want to hear them do a JOURNEY version of Santana. I want to hear them embrace the rhythms that are in Neal's roots and sign them with that JOURNEY sound. It would be something familiar but at the same time unlike anything ever heard.

If it won't sound like Santana...then who will it sound like? Could you be more specfic about which Latin rhythms you have in mind?

I've just looked up "latin rhythms" and there are hundreds! Mambo... Chachacha... Guaguanco.... Guajira.... Salsa...Tango...La Rueda...Merengue...Rumba... Bosa Nova...Samba...

How is it possible for Journey to retain their 'signature sound' with any of these rhythms? Just curious...

And talking of Neal and JSS's "roots"...would the Latin rhythms reflect their countries of origin? Or would they include Brazilian rhythms too?

The trouble with your proposal is that it's so vague - or seems so to me. And I really do think it would be a better use of your energy to hire a remixer to replace and reinvent the drum tracks on existing songs...rather than trying to convince us that it's a good idea.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If you truly admired my persistence then you'd participate in the idea by brainstorming it with me.

I'm a fan of Journey. I'm not *in* Journey. I admire what they've created and eagerly await what they'll cook up next.

I moved out of Mom's basement a long time ago. In fact, I never lived in the basement as mobile homes are rather like a long narrow ranch home on wheels. However my computer is now located in the basement where I live with my wife and 3 boys - so I guess that answers your question about any sexual activity.

Those comments were obviously made tongue in cheek.
Take a zoloft, empt your bowels, do whatever u need to do.
Relax.

Regarding time being wasted or spent: to each his own. You certainly have me beat by miles when it comes to time spent on this forum. I wouldn't call your time wasted or unproductive.

I would.
Christ, I wish there was a 12 step program for this godforsaken hell hole.
Why am I always here?
More and more I find myself asking when exactly did my life slip me by?

[Matthew]

I would.
Christ, I wish there was a 12 step program for this godforsaken hell hole.
Why am I always here?
More and more I find myself asking when exactly did my life slip me by?

I was having exactly the same thoughts earlier today...and despite my self-loathing...here I am again...

[larryfromnextdoor]

fry wings, please respond with ur thoughts on the poll...............

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I actually think you're idea is excellent, I just personally hope it never happens. I hate Latin crap. Now JSS might like it, because of his heritage, and that's great, but Journey has a signature sound....and it isn't Latin Crap. Neal and Rolie bolted from that shit with Santana.

They can do whatever the Hell they want, but I won't get into it if it's latin sounding.

Your point that JOURNEY has a signature sound is the point. I wouldn't ask them to change their sound. I'm merely suggesting that they explore other music more directly AND sign it with THEIR sound.

I'm sure you'd agree that EVERY JOURNEY album is DIFFERENT from the others and stand on their own however they all sound like JOURNEY the INSTANT you hear them. Whether you identify with SP's voice, Neal's guitar, Jon's or Gregg's keys, SS's or Aynsley's drums, Ross' or Randy's bass, etc. - the music has JOURNEY's signature to it.

It's a big world out there and it's getting smaller. The landscape is begging for diversity. They've produced 4 melodic rock albums that have had mixed reviews and produced little interest along with below average sales. The only exception being WYLAW from TBF being nominated for a Gran-Daddy.

It's time to do something "different" but with their signature on it.

I don't want to hear them do a JOURNEY version of Santana. I want to hear them embrace the rhythms that are in Neal's roots and sign them with that JOURNEY sound. It would be something familiar but at the same time unlike anything ever heard.

If it won't sound like Santana...then who will it sound like?

I'm sure it would sound like JOURNEY just like everything else that they've done sounds like them.

I've always found it odd that everyone thinks that it would be some kind of a Santana rip-off. As if Santana is the ONLY Latino artist out there!

Could you be more specfic about which Latin rhythms you have in mind?

I've just looked up "latin rhythms" and there are hundreds! Mambo... Chachacha... Guaguanco.... Guajira.... Salsa...Tango...La Rueda...Merengue...Rumba... Bosa Nova...Samba...

I don't have specifics on that. That's up to the band as to what feels right to them.

How is it possible for Journey to retain their 'signature sound' with any of these rhythms? Just curious...

Why is it impossible? Again, the first three albums are jazz fusion along with some other very odd time signatures and experimentations yet it sounds like JOURNEY. E5C4P3 is a very acoustic recording and FRONTIERS is very biting and rough. ROR is a glistening pop/rock - these albums stand on their own yet all have the unique JOURNEY signature. I think the JOURNEY signature is a sweeping, cinematic sound with soaring guitars and vocals with harmonies rooted in R&B and Gospel styles. Take that signature and plug it into Latin rhythms and you've got something truly special.

And talking of Neal and JSS's "roots"...would the Latin rhythms reflect their countries of origin? Or would they include Brazilian rhythms too?

I believe Neal is Italian...? Again, I think that's up to them as to what feels right.

The trouble with your proposal is that it's so vague - or seems so to me. And I really do think it would be a better use of your energy to hire a remixer to replace and reinvent the drum tracks on existing songs...rather than trying to convince us that it's a good idea.

JOURNEY is about moving forward. I think they've lost track of that because everynody wants them to help them relive the past. Remixing the catalogue only serves to push JOURNEY further into the past.

I say leave the past in the past and look into the future. There's a large, diverse audience out there that JOURNEY could capture.

[Matthew]

JOURNEY is about moving forward. I think they've lost track of that because everynody wants them to help them relive the past. Remixing the catalogue only serves to push JOURNEY further into the past.

Yes - I can see that's your dream scenario. But it might help your cause to get a Journey song remixed - and to try it out on both a Latin audience and traditional Journey fans. If you get an amazing response, then your credibility will increase with the band and it's management.

Plus...it's a realistic goal to get a bootleg remix commissioned. Pitching the idea to Journey die-hards on a messageboard - without any audio to back you up - isn't enough...

[Wheels Of Fyre]

fry wings, please respond with ur thoughts on the poll...............

Honestly, I don't expect much. I think people voiced their opinions in the Ugly Betty thread and probably find this one redundant.

I'm a positive person and this is a positive thread. People are naturally drawn to negativity, misery, and violence. Look at how much attention negative, miserable, and violent threads get! I'm not about name calling or being outrageous - so I doubt anyone finds what I have to say of interest. If I would've titled it "JOURNEY Eats Shit" then everyone would come running.

I'm just here trying to have some fun in my own strange way.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm a positive person and this is a positive thread. People are naturally drawn to negativity, misery, and violence. Look at how much attention negative, miserable, and violent threads get! I'm not about name calling or being outrageous - so I doubt anyone finds what I have to say of interest. If I would've titled it "JOURNEY Eats Shit" then everyone would come running.

I'm just here trying to have some fun in my own strange way.

You seem like a genuinely insightful guy, I just wish you would talk about something other than Spaniards and Telemundo for once.

[Matthew]

I'm a positive person and this is a positive thread. People are naturally drawn to negativity, misery, and violence. Look at how much attention negative, miserable, and violent threads get! I'm not about name calling or being outrageous - so I doubt anyone finds what I have to say of interest. If I would've titled it "JOURNEY Eats Shit" then everyone would come running.

I'm just here trying to have some fun in my own strange way.

You seem like a genuinely insightful guy, I just wish you would talk about something other than Spaniards and Telemundo for once.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

JOURNEY is about moving forward. I think they've lost track of that because everynody wants them to help them relive the past. Remixing the catalogue only serves to push JOURNEY further into the past.

Yes - I can see that's your dream scenario. But it might help your cause to get a Journey song remixed - and to try it out on both a Latin audience and traditional Journey fans. If you get an amazing response, then your credibility will increase with the band and it's management.

Plus...it's a realistic goal to get a bootleg remix commissioned. Pitching the idea to Journey die-hards on a messageboard - without any audio to back you up - isn't enough...

I appreciate that!

I know this sounds cheesy but it's not really my cause. I got fired up about the idea because Neal and Jon mentioned in an interview a couple years ago that they were thinking of something like this. I was ecstatic about the idea because as SP said regarding the music prior to E5C4P3, "We took that type of music as far as we could. We needed to make a change. If you don't change then you run the risk of drying up and blowing away." I've been of the thinking that they need to do something unique so when Neal and Jon mentioned this I figured that they were finally going to make a move and get creative. They didn't however they did explore some Latin sets in a couple shows in Florida. Never really heard any feedback as to why they didn't take things further. Perhaps the audiences were running for beers instead and they got discouraged.

So I'm not really pitching the idea for myself. I'm trying to support something that JOURNEY felt they wanted to do. What has happened is that the fans don't want JOURNEY to progress or allow them freedom to do what they want. The fans want them to be "JOURNEY 1981-83." I could take the effort and remix as you've suggested but the fans would be aghast about how the soundtrack of their lives has been violated. A remix would be perceived as a sin against all that is holy.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I'm a positive person and this is a positive thread. People are naturally drawn to negativity, misery, and violence. Look at how much attention negative, miserable, and violent threads get! I'm not about name calling or being outrageous - so I doubt anyone finds what I have to say of interest. If I would've titled it "JOURNEY Eats Shit" then everyone would come running.

I'm just here trying to have some fun in my own strange way.

You seem like a genuinely insightful guy, I just wish you would talk about something other than Spaniards and Telemundo for once.

So are you finally admitting that deep down inside you're in love with Monker?

Hey - Telemundo has some great shows! I particularly like the ones that have all the hot women in bikinis. Wait - what show on Telemundo doesn't have them...?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Do you really think that Journey feel thwarted creatively because of their fans?

Absolutely!

They released ARRIVAL and what happened? One word: Napster. Then they tour ARRIVAL and what happened? They couldn't promote the album on tour because the fans wanted to hear Don't Stop Believin' for the bazillionth time or they'd go for beers.

This spawned the "Dirty Dozen" and the continuous Greatest Hits touring.

Then they released Red 13 and what happened? The fans had mixed reviews and JOURNEY was unable to promote it live. Heck, they even felt pressure to re-issue it with scarab artwork as the original cover design (despite it being a play on the JOURNEYesque winged disk motif which nobody could see) "violated" the scarab which has been jammed down JOURNEY's throat as what they HAVE to use as it was popularized by E5C4P3!

Then they released GENERATIONS and it went on sale for $9! Why? Because everyone knew that nobody would want it. So what happened? Neal said that "Knowing That You Love Me" is the next "Open Arms." Heck, even he's fallen into the trap of comparing new JOURNEY with old JOURNEY! What happened? This touted song has done what? Nobody wants the next "Open Arms." To compare old with the new discredits everything. We're not talking Certs breath mints that now have new, improved flavor crystals!

All of this has gone down because JOURNEy has been playing to a SELFISH fan base that wants to relive their glory days.

[Matthew]

Do you really think that Journey feel thwarted creatively because of their fans?

Absolutely!

They released ARRIVAL and what happened? One word: Napster. Then they tour ARRIVAL and what happened? They couldn't promote the album on tour because the fans wanted to hear Don't Stop Believin' for the bazillionth time or they'd go for beers.

This spawned the "Dirty Dozen" and the continuous Greatest Hits touring.

Then they released Red 13 and what happened? The fans had mixed reviews and JOURNEY was unable to promote it live. Heck, they even felt pressure to re-issue it with scarab artwork as the original cover design (despite it being a play on the JOURNEYesque winged disk motif which nobody could see) "violated" the scarab which has been jammed down JOURNEY's throat as what they HAVE to use as it was popularized by E5C4P3!

Then they released GENERATIONS and it went on sale for $9! Why? Because everyone knew that nobody would want it. So what happened? Neal said that "Knowing That You Love Me" is the next "Open Arms." Heck, even he's fallen into the trap of comparing new JOURNEY with old JOURNEY! What happened? This touted song has done what? Nobody wants the next "Open Arms." To compare old with the new discredits everything. We're not talking Certs breath mints that now have new, improved flavor crystals!

All of this has gone down because JOURNEy has been playing to a SELFISH fan base that wants to relive their glory days.

Yes, I agree - but you make no mention of the most crucial factor in Journey's creative decline. The absence of Steve Perry. Do you think that a fit and highly-motivated Perry would have been able to keep Journey fans away from the beer stand during the new songs?

Sure, the fans will always want to hear the hits live in concert - no matter who is singing - but ultimately it is up to the band to carry off the new material. The simple truth is that the new material was weak and the new frontman wasn't sufficiently charismatic. Journey had to break new material in every year during the late 70s/early 80s and they pulled it off.

And even if it is indeed impossible to do this now with the ageing fan base...well, given that nobody buys the albums then surely Journey have the freedom to record what they like? They don't have any pressure from a major label...there are no expectations...there isn't a huge amount of money wrapped up in the project...so what's stopping Journey from releasing first-rate albums? The fans? No - the die-hard Journey fans will buy ANYTHING with the Journey name on it.

The fact is...Journey peaked creatively twenty years ago...that was their 'moment in time'...and the band aren't inspired or determined enough to push things forward. Maybe JSS will provide a new chemistry...and maybe even some much-needed creative conflict which was so lacking during the beige Augeri years...but whatever happens... the responsibility for change or the lack of it lies entirely with the band.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal said that "Knowing That You Love Me" is the next "Open Arms." Heck, even he's fallen into the trap of comparing new JOURNEY with old JOURNEY! What happened? This touted song has done what? Nobody wants the next "Open Arms."

I believe Deen said this, not Neal.

[The_Noble_Cause]

So are you finally admitting that deep down inside you're in love with Monker?

Monker is officially Froy's bitch.
I'd never be so rude as to intervene in their torrid epic love affair.
I just regularly mop the floor with his ass out of principle.

[A Fire Inside]

If any of this means a full CD of La Raza, NO. I hate that song, and Perry sounds like a douche singing about the barrio.

[Shadowsong]

I would.
Christ, I wish there was a 12 step program for this godforsaken hell hole.
Why am I always here?
More and more I find myself asking when exactly did my life slip me by?

I was having exactly the same thoughts earlier today...and despite my self-loathing...here I am again...

I'll add my vote to the voice of reason...
I wonder why
and Toto is still somewhere in OZ

[Red13JoePa]

Been saying for a while, I'd like to see them pull an Aerosmith and do a blues record....praps infused with some Latin influences ala La Raza....


Deano, priceless how it's open season for you on everybody's nationality until it comes to JSS, then it's just a demure respectful "his heritage."

[Marabelle]

guess Deano just wants to change it up abit and see if he can get anyone's attention...obviously it worked.

[larryfromnextdoor]

frye,, did i miss it somewhere, or did u like abraxos pool,, i thought it was great!!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Do you really think that Journey feel thwarted creatively because of their fans?

Absolutely!

They released ARRIVAL and what happened? One word: Napster. Then they tour ARRIVAL and what happened? They couldn't promote the album on tour because the fans wanted to hear Don't Stop Believin' for the bazillionth time or they'd go for beers.

This spawned the "Dirty Dozen" and the continuous Greatest Hits touring.

Then they released Red 13 and what happened? The fans had mixed reviews and JOURNEY was unable to promote it live. Heck, they even felt pressure to re-issue it with scarab artwork as the original cover design (despite it being a play on the JOURNEYesque winged disk motif which nobody could see) "violated" the scarab which has been jammed down JOURNEY's throat as what they HAVE to use as it was popularized by E5C4P3!

Then they released GENERATIONS and it went on sale for $9! Why? Because everyone knew that nobody would want it. So what happened? Neal said that "Knowing That You Love Me" is the next "Open Arms." Heck, even he's fallen into the trap of comparing new JOURNEY with old JOURNEY! What happened? This touted song has done what? Nobody wants the next "Open Arms." To compare old with the new discredits everything. We're not talking Certs breath mints that now have new, improved flavor crystals!

All of this has gone down because JOURNEy has been playing to a SELFISH fan base that wants to relive their glory days.

Yes, I agree - but you make no mention of the most crucial factor in Journey's creative decline. The absence of Steve Perry. Do you think that a fit and highly-motivated Perry would have been able to keep Journey fans away from the beer stand during the new songs?

Sure, the fans will always want to hear the hits live in concert - no matter who is singing - but ultimately it is up to the band to carry off the new material. The simple truth is that the new material was weak and the new frontman wasn't sufficiently charismatic. Journey had to break new material in every year during the late 70s/early 80s and they pulled it off.

And even if it is indeed impossible to do this now with the ageing fan base...well, given that nobody buys the albums then surely Journey have the freedom to record what they like? They don't have any pressure from a major label...there are no expectations...there isn't a huge amount of money wrapped up in the project...so what's stopping Journey from releasing first-rate albums? The fans? No - the die-hard Journey fans will buy ANYTHING with the Journey name on it.

The fact is...Journey peaked creatively twenty years ago...that was their 'moment in time'...and the band aren't inspired or determined enough to push things forward. Maybe JSS will provide a new chemistry...and maybe even some much-needed creative conflict which was so lacking during the beige Augeri years...but whatever happens... the responsibility for change or the lack of it lies entirely with the band.

As far as SP goes his participation in the TBF reunion didn't generate the kind of attention I think was expected. I realize that WYLAW was nominated for a Gran-Daddy but other than that it was a flat effort. We'll never know how well it would've done as the tour never happened. I've always suspected that SP bailed due to his hip AND because there wasn't as much hype about the reunion as expected. It probably broke his heart to recognize that.

I don't think JOURNEY has the freedom to record whatever they like. They're in a position to produce something they think the fans and investors will expect and appreciate.

I don't think JOURNEY peaked creatively yet. They may have peaked in popularity but not in the area of creativity. All of the solo work and side projects indicate lots of creativity left however writing in the melodic rock format is limiting.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

frye,, did i miss it somewhere, or did u like abraxos pool,, i thought it was great!!

Hey, Larry. I've only heard cuts from it - never bought it but have it on a wish list. It seems to me every time it comes up people who have it say that they love it.

[Matthew]

As far as SP goes his participation in the TBF reunion didn't generate the kind of attention I think was expected. I realize that WYLAW was nominated for a Gran-Daddy but other than that it was a flat effort. We'll never know how well it would've done as the tour never happened.

Well, TBF still sold over a million copies without a tour or even a proper PR campaign - but other than that I agree that it was a flat effort. Still...there are a couple of classics on there.

I've always suspected that SP bailed due to his hip AND because there wasn't as much hype about the reunion as expected. It probably broke his heart to recognize that.

Yes - and I can understand Perry's desire to quit at the top. The mid-1990s were the worst possible time for any melodlc rock artist, though. I bet a new Perry solo album would perform much better now than FLTOSM did in '94.

I don't think JOURNEY has the freedom to record whatever they like. They're in a position to produce something they think the fans and investors will expect and appreciate.

Well, if they are trying to cynically second-guess their audience it isn't working. Journey's album sales have collapsed since Perry left the band - and the strategy of trying to create the impression that he never left has held the band back creatively and it hasn't worked commercially either. If I was an investor in Journey's recording career the last thing I'd want is another pastiche of their 80's heyday.

I don't think JOURNEY peaked creatively yet. They may have peaked in popularity but not in the area of creativity. All of the solo work and side projects indicate lots of creativity left however writing in the melodic rock format is limiting.

I love your optimism...but come on Fyre... what single scrap of evidence is there to suggest that Journey hasn't peaked creatively yet?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

As far as SP goes his participation in the TBF reunion didn't generate the kind of attention I think was expected. I realize that WYLAW was nominated for a Gran-Daddy but other than that it was a flat effort. We'll never know how well it would've done as the tour never happened.

Well, TBF still sold over a million copies without a tour or even a proper PR campaign - but other than that I agree that it was a flat effort. Still...there are a couple of classics on there.

I've always suspected that SP bailed due to his hip AND because there wasn't as much hype about the reunion as expected. It probably broke his heart to recognize that.

Yes - and I can understand Perry's desire to quit at the top. The mid-1990s were the worst possible time for any melodlc rock artist, though. I bet a new Perry solo album would perform much better now than FLTOSM did in '94.

I don't think JOURNEY has the freedom to record whatever they like. They're in a position to produce something they think the fans and investors will expect and appreciate.

Well, if they are trying to cynically second-guess their audience it isn't working. Journey's album sales have collapsed since Perry left the band - and the strategy of trying to create the impression that he never left has held the band back creatively and it hasn't worked commercially either. If I was an investor in Journey's recording career the last thing I'd want is another pastiche of their 80's heyday.

I don't think JOURNEY peaked creatively yet. They may have peaked in popularity but not in the area of creativity. All of the solo work and side projects indicate lots of creativity left however writing in the melodic rock format is limiting.

I love your optimism...but come on Fyre... what single scrap of evidence is there to suggest that Journey hasn't peaked creatively yet?

Great points as always!

I think the evidence is in the aforementioned solo and side projects. Also, I can see/hear certain growths in their work from ARRIVAL, Red 13, and GENERATIONS. There's some great ideas in these albums but they don't shine through because anything JOURNEY does is being compared to their past.

This is perhaps the biggest reason why they need to try something DIFFERENT. Something that will put some separation between them and their past.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Neal:
And we had a tremendous experience there [South America]. Ya know, it was our first time ever playing there in Mexico City, South America. We had a huge turnout, and we had tons of fans there that we never knew about. And, you know, Jon and I came back from that and we were talking. And I was like, you know what, I really think that if we added some percussion...not to sound like Santana, but just add percussion because the percussion is just... You know, from my experience of working with the Santana band, you get somebody like Chepito Areas and Michael Carabello going with a drummer, and it's hypnotic. The rhythm is hypnotic. It's undeniable, and people love it. They love it without music on top of it.

Jon:
Yeah, you know this dance thing, there's something cool about exploring that rhythm. And certainly we'll do that. And if it comes out and it doesn't, you know, work, we can say at least we tried. And then we'll try other ways. But there's a lot of different ideas we've been scratching on, and just playing with different concepts, and we'll see what happens.

DO IT, GUYS!!!