Retitled: Rhtyhms & Blues

[Matthew]

As far as SP goes his participation in the TBF reunion didn't generate the kind of attention I think was expected. I realize that WYLAW was nominated for a Gran-Daddy but other than that it was a flat effort. We'll never know how well it would've done as the tour never happened.

Well, TBF still sold over a million copies without a tour or even a proper PR campaign - but other than that I agree that it was a flat effort. Still...there are a couple of classics on there.

I've always suspected that SP bailed due to his hip AND because there wasn't as much hype about the reunion as expected. It probably broke his heart to recognize that.

Yes - and I can understand Perry's desire to quit at the top. The mid-1990s were the worst possible time for any melodlc rock artist, though. I bet a new Perry solo album would perform much better now than FLTOSM did in '94.

I don't think JOURNEY has the freedom to record whatever they like. They're in a position to produce something they think the fans and investors will expect and appreciate.

Well, if they are trying to cynically second-guess their audience it isn't working. Journey's album sales have collapsed since Perry left the band - and the strategy of trying to create the impression that he never left has held the band back creatively and it hasn't worked commercially either. If I was an investor in Journey's recording career the last thing I'd want is another pastiche of their 80's heyday.

I don't think JOURNEY peaked creatively yet. They may have peaked in popularity but not in the area of creativity. All of the solo work and side projects indicate lots of creativity left however writing in the melodic rock format is limiting.

I love your optimism...but come on Fyre... what single scrap of evidence is there to suggest that Journey hasn't peaked creatively yet?

Great points as always!

I think the evidence is in the aforementioned solo and side projects. Also, I can see/hear certain growths in their work from ARRIVAL, Red 13, and GENERATIONS. There's some great ideas in these albums but they don't shine through because anything JOURNEY does is being compared to their past.

This is perhaps the biggest reason why they need to try something DIFFERENT. Something that will put some separation between them and their past.

Exactly. I reckon Journey need to record the heaviest album of their career next. Take Rush - they are heavier now than they were in the late 1970s - yet they still have found a way to accomodate their 80s AOR era in concert too. But there's an agression to their music again.

And before anyone says...but won't that just be Soul Sirkus? No...it needn't be traditional, simplistic hard rock. Like with Rush - the epic-sounding 'prog' element in Journey's music is the key part of their 'signature' - and I'd develop that aspect of Journey's sound to break away from the Perry era, I reckon. It also allows Cain a lot of scope...whilst playing to JSS's strengths too. Sure, `a new record will need a couple of "Better Life" mid-tempo numbers from Deen...but overall it's time for Journey to become a testostrone-driven rock band again and to shake up the mumsy fan base.

[Carlitto H@kk]

And before anyone says...but won't that just be Soul Sirkus? No...it needn't be traditional, simplistic hard rock. Like with Rush - the epic-sounding 'prog' element in Journey's music is the key part of their 'signature' - and I'd develop that aspect of Journey's sound to break away from the Perry era, I reckon. It also allows Cain a lot of scope...whilst playing to JSS's strengths too. Sure, `a new record will need a couple of "Better Life" mid-tempo numbers from Deen...but overall it's time for Journey to become a testostrone-driven rock band again and to shake up the mumsy fan base.

This thread is a long, hard read. And Wingz, I know you are pasionat e about it but, I personally think your idea is even worse than the firing of Smitty and Ross back in 85-86! But Matty, you just posted the most intelligent thing in this thread and I agree with you 110%, Buddy!!!

[Matthew]

Cheers CH!

Shame I didn't spell "testosterone" correctly...

[Wheels Of Fyre]

As far as SP goes his participation in the TBF reunion didn't generate the kind of attention I think was expected. I realize that WYLAW was nominated for a Gran-Daddy but other than that it was a flat effort. We'll never know how well it would've done as the tour never happened.

Well, TBF still sold over a million copies without a tour or even a proper PR campaign - but other than that I agree that it was a flat effort. Still...there are a couple of classics on there.

I've always suspected that SP bailed due to his hip AND because there wasn't as much hype about the reunion as expected. It probably broke his heart to recognize that.

Yes - and I can understand Perry's desire to quit at the top. The mid-1990s were the worst possible time for any melodlc rock artist, though. I bet a new Perry solo album would perform much better now than FLTOSM did in '94.

I don't think JOURNEY has the freedom to record whatever they like. They're in a position to produce something they think the fans and investors will expect and appreciate.

Well, if they are trying to cynically second-guess their audience it isn't working. Journey's album sales have collapsed since Perry left the band - and the strategy of trying to create the impression that he never left has held the band back creatively and it hasn't worked commercially either. If I was an investor in Journey's recording career the last thing I'd want is another pastiche of their 80's heyday.

I don't think JOURNEY peaked creatively yet. They may have peaked in popularity but not in the area of creativity. All of the solo work and side projects indicate lots of creativity left however writing in the melodic rock format is limiting.

I love your optimism...but come on Fyre... what single scrap of evidence is there to suggest that Journey hasn't peaked creatively yet?

Great points as always!

I think the evidence is in the aforementioned solo and side projects. Also, I can see/hear certain growths in their work from ARRIVAL, Red 13, and GENERATIONS. There's some great ideas in these albums but they don't shine through because anything JOURNEY does is being compared to their past.

This is perhaps the biggest reason why they need to try something DIFFERENT. Something that will put some separation between them and their past.

Exactly. I reckon Journey need to record the heaviest album of their career next. Take Rush - they are heavier now than they were in the late 1970s - yet they still have found a way to accomodate their 80s AOR era in concert too. But there's an agression to their music again.

And before anyone says...but won't that just be Soul Sirkus? No...it needn't be traditional, simplistic hard rock. Like with Rush - the epic-sounding 'prog' element in Journey's music is the key part of their 'signature' - and I'd develop that aspect of Journey's sound to break away from the Perry era, I reckon. It also allows Cain a lot of scope...whilst playing to JSS's strengths too. Sure, `a new record will need a couple of "Better Life" mid-tempo numbers from Deen...but overall it's time for Journey to become a testostrone-driven rock band again and to shake up the mumsy fan base.

"Heavy" = more disgruntled fans and more "old" stale music. Heavy isn't different. They've done heavy. They've done pop. They've done melodic rock to death. They've done progressive and jazz fusion. They've done it all under the sun.

The majority of fans associate JOURNEY with 80's pop/rock. Producing something heavy will only result in disgruntled fans and the inevitable argument, "It's not the JOURNEY we know and love - it's just too damn heavy."

Again, they've got to explore something that is entirely foreign to them. It may piss off current fans BUT they won't be able to argue the inevitable arguments.

SHOCK AND AWE!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

And before anyone says...but won't that just be Soul Sirkus? No...it needn't be traditional, simplistic hard rock. Like with Rush - the epic-sounding 'prog' element in Journey's music is the key part of their 'signature' - and I'd develop that aspect of Journey's sound to break away from the Perry era, I reckon. It also allows Cain a lot of scope...whilst playing to JSS's strengths too. Sure, `a new record will need a couple of "Better Life" mid-tempo numbers from Deen...but overall it's time for Journey to become a testostrone-driven rock band again and to shake up the mumsy fan base.

This thread is a long, hard read. And Wingz, I know you are pasionat e about it but, I personally think your idea is even worse than the firing of Smitty and Ross back in 85-86! But Matty, you just posted the most intelligent thing in this thread and I agree with you 110%, Buddy!!!

Nothing that's worth anything is ever easy!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Neal:
And we had a tremendous experience there [South America]. Ya know, it was our first time ever playing there in Mexico City, South America. We had a huge turnout, and we had tons of fans there that we never knew about. And, you know, Jon and I came back from that and we were talking. And I was like, you know what, I really think that if we added some percussion...not to sound like Santana, but just add percussion because the percussion is just... You know, from my experience of working with the Santana band, you get somebody like Chepito Areas and Michael Carabello going with a drummer, and it's hypnotic. The rhythm is hypnotic. It's undeniable, and people love it. They love it without music on top of it.

Jon:
Yeah, you know this dance thing, there's something cool about exploring that rhythm. And certainly we'll do that. And if it comes out and it doesn't, you know, work, we can say at least we tried. And then we'll try other ways. But there's a lot of different ideas we've been scratching on, and just playing with different concepts, and we'll see what happens.

DO IT, GUYS!!!

HELLO-O-O-O!!!

[Matthew]

"Heavy" = more disgruntled fans and more "old" stale music. Heavy isn't different. They've done heavy.

I disagree that "heavy" automatically means "old" or "stale". The heavy metal scene is pretty vibrant still...unlike the melodic rock scene. It all depends on the band and the producer. The new Metallica album produced by Rick Rubin is one of the most anticipated new records in years - amongst both old and new fans. And System of a Down are one of the hottest bands in the world now...

No, Journey isn't a metal band - but there's still scope to be heavy and reasonably interesting and different at the same time. Have Journey done all this before? Yes - on a handful of tracks. But they didn't have a heavy rock singer. Perry - for all his unlimited genius - was especially well-suited to the softer tracks.

And forgive me Fyre...Latin rhythms are much older than those of heavy rock. Heavy rock music has been around since the late 1960s/eaerly 1970s...but salsa, samba, bossa nova? Am I right in thinking these types of music date back to the 1920s?

The majority of fans associate JOURNEY with 80's pop/rock. Producing something heavy will only result in disgruntled fans and the inevitable argument, "It's not the JOURNEY we know and love - it's just too damn heavy."

If it leads to a purge of that creepy fan base of Steve Augeri's then I'm all for it. And who knows? Journey might actually attract new, younger fans. It's not utterly beyond possibility.

Again, they've got to explore something that is entirely foreign to them. It may piss off current fans BUT they won't be able to argue the inevitable arguments.

Fyre - you're just like me! You don't actually care how many fans Journey piss off as long as they play the style of music you want them to.

[Matthew]

Neal:
And we had a tremendous experience there [South America]. Ya know, it was our first time ever playing there in Mexico City, South America. We had a huge turnout, and we had tons of fans there that we never knew about. And, you know, Jon and I came back from that and we were talking. And I was like, you know what, I really think that if we added some percussion...not to sound like Santana, but just add percussion because the percussion is just... You know, from my experience of working with the Santana band, you get somebody like Chepito Areas and Michael Carabello going with a drummer, and it's hypnotic. The rhythm is hypnotic. It's undeniable, and people love it. They love it without music on top of it.

Jon:
Yeah, you know this dance thing, there's something cool about exploring that rhythm. And certainly we'll do that. And if it comes out and it doesn't, you know, work, we can say at least we tried. And then we'll try other ways. But there's a lot of different ideas we've been scratching on, and just playing with different concepts, and we'll see what happens.

DO IT, GUYS!!!

HELLO-O-O-O!!!

Did they say this before or after "Generations"?

[SF-Dano]

Just a curious question:

Who here really enjoyed the live version of La Raza Del Sol on the 2001 DVD?

IMO, that is one of the highlight songs on that DVD, along with Filmore Boogie. The drumming, the keys, the guitar, hell even Ross kicks ass on that tune live. I think it is awesome when this great group of muscians can just cut loose and jam, whether it be "latin" flavored like La Raza or "crazy rock" like Filmore Boogie.
As for a whole album of Jam tunes like the early days, no, but I wouldn't mind a couple extended jam tracks on an album either. If we are looking for a heavier sound from the guys on the next CD, how about something in the style of Dream Theatre. Since Journey are not big commercial sellers anymore, why not do some jam songs showcasing their musicianship. I know jams are not everyone's cup o' tea, but a couple couldn't hurt. These guys are top flight muscians, let it rip.

JMHO.

[Moon Beam]

Fyre..........
I would love to hear Journey put out
something like John Mayer did with
The John Mayer Trio, very bluesy and
pretty damn good I might add.
The latin thing don't grab me the same however
but hey we all like different stuff and I respect
that you enjoy entertaining that idea.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Neal:
And we had a tremendous experience there [South America]. Ya know, it was our first time ever playing there in Mexico City, South America. We had a huge turnout, and we had tons of fans there that we never knew about. And, you know, Jon and I came back from that and we were talking. And I was like, you know what, I really think that if we added some percussion...not to sound like Santana, but just add percussion because the percussion is just... You know, from my experience of working with the Santana band, you get somebody like Chepito Areas and Michael Carabello going with a drummer, and it's hypnotic. The rhythm is hypnotic. It's undeniable, and people love it. They love it without music on top of it.

Jon:
Yeah, you know this dance thing, there's something cool about exploring that rhythm. And certainly we'll do that. And if it comes out and it doesn't, you know, work, we can say at least we tried. And then we'll try other ways. But there's a lot of different ideas we've been scratching on, and just playing with different concepts, and we'll see what happens.

DO IT, GUYS!!!

HELLO-O-O-O!!!

Did they say this before or after "Generations"?

It was stated 3 years ago. Go ahead. Argue the obvious.

My response: *YAWN*

It’s just more evidence that the fans are CHOKING JOURNEY.

Neal and Jon made this statement and NOBODY talked about it. NOBODY. What was talked about from this interview were the Steve Perry, sexual activity, and BT “get a life” comments!

Give me a break!

Where are the fans who SUPPORT JOURNEY? Didn’t anyone COMPREHEND what was said in that interview beyond the controversial crap? When I read this interview I jumped all over the idea. I posted it all over BT and was BLASTED as if it was “MY” idea! Even when I pointed out that it was initiated by Neal I was told, “JOURNEY will never do this. They’re a ROCK band!!! Who are you to tell them?! I'm sure JOURNEY knows more about how to manage themselves than you do!!!”

LUNACY!

I was and still am in support of this. While everyone is choking JOURNEY I’m trying to revive them!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Fyre..........
I would love to hear Journey put out
something like John Mayer did with
The John Mayer Trio, very bluesy and
pretty damn good I might add.
The latin thing don't grab me the same however
but hey we all like different stuff and I respect
that you enjoy entertaining that idea.

COOL! You're halfway there!

How can you say it doesn't grab you when you've yet to hear it?

This is why I say SHOCK AND AWE. JOURNEY just needs to do it. Put it out there. It will be GREAT.

Shock the fans and wake them up!

[Matthew]

It was stated 3 years ago. Go ahead. Argue the obvious.

My response: *YAWN*

It’s just more evidence that the fans are CHOKING JOURNEY.

Neal and Jon made this statement and NOBODY talked about it. NOBODY. What was talked about from this interview were the Steve Perry, sexual activity, and BT “get a life” comments!

Give me a break!

Where are the fans who SUPPORT JOURNEY? Didn’t anyone COMPREHEND what was said in that interview beyond the controversial crap? When I read this interview I jumped all over the idea. I posted it all over BT and was BLASTED as if it was “MY” idea! Even when I pointed out that it was initiated by Neal I was told, “JOURNEY will never do this. They’re a ROCK band!!! Who are you to tell them?! I'm sure JOURNEY knows more about how to manage themselves than you do!!!”

LUNACY!

I was and still am in support of this. While everyone is choking JOURNEY I’m trying to revive them!

Fyre - you are pouring energy down a black hole. I'll say it again....get a Latin remix sorted out...and distribute it amongst the fans.

You are trying to convince a bunch of rock fans here about the wonders of Latin music. But it's getting on our tits and getting you nowhere. Give us something to listen to...demonstrate to us how Journey would sound....

[Wheels Of Fyre]

It was stated 3 years ago. Go ahead. Argue the obvious.

My response: *YAWN*

It’s just more evidence that the fans are CHOKING JOURNEY.

Neal and Jon made this statement and NOBODY talked about it. NOBODY. What was talked about from this interview were the Steve Perry, sexual activity, and BT “get a life” comments!

Give me a break!

Where are the fans who SUPPORT JOURNEY? Didn’t anyone COMPREHEND what was said in that interview beyond the controversial crap? When I read this interview I jumped all over the idea. I posted it all over BT and was BLASTED as if it was “MY” idea! Even when I pointed out that it was initiated by Neal I was told, “JOURNEY will never do this. They’re a ROCK band!!! Who are you to tell them?! I'm sure JOURNEY knows more about how to manage themselves than you do!!!”

LUNACY!

I was and still am in support of this. While everyone is choking JOURNEY I’m trying to revive them!

Fyre - you are pouring energy down a black hole. I'll say it again....get a Latin remix sorted out...and distribute it amongst the fans.

You are trying to convince a bunch of rock fans here about the wonders of Latin music. But it's getting on our tits and getting you nowhere. Give us something to listen to...demonstrate to us how Journey would sound....

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm supporting JOURNEY - not addressing "rock fans."

See the difference.

I'm supporting JOURNEY and you're getting pissed at me. So I have to ask who the real JOURNEY fan is here?

I don't care if it gets me nowhere with a bunch of "rock fans." I only care if JOURNEY hears my applause for the idea.

About the remix - didn't I already answer that? NOBODY wants to hear a remix for the reasons I noted earlier. Not even yourself. You'll HATE it.

[Carlitto H@kk]

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm supporting JOURNEY - not addressing "rock fans."

See the difference.

I'm supporting JOURNEY and you're getting pissed at me. So I have to ask who the real JOURNEY fan is here?

I don't care if it gets me nowhere with a bunch of "rock fans." I only care if JOURNEY hears my applause for the idea.

About the remix - didn't I already answer that? NOBODY wants to hear a remix for the reasons I noted earlier. Not even yourself. You'll HATE it.

Come on, WyngDinger...
If you weren't trying to convince us "Rock Fans" that your idea is gold then you wouldn't have posted it here, followed by numerous replies trying to throw your idea down everyone's throats.
Give me a break. If you want Journey to hear your idea, write a letter to management. PM Jeff, he'll probably pass it on to Neal for you.
But don't rant about it in an open forum, continue to keep posting replies to back-up your idea and then plead that "I am not trying to convince anyone..." And then get pissed off when 90% of the forum population thinks that your idea wouldn't work...

[conversationpc]

If you weren't trying to convince us "Rock Fans" that your idea is gold then you wouldn't have posted it here, followed by numerous replies trying to throw your idea down everyone's throats.
Give me a break. If you want Journey to hear your idea, write a letter to management. PM Jeff, he'll probably pass it on to Neal for you.
But don't rant about it in an open forum, continue to keep posting replies to back-up your idea and then plead that "I am not trying to convince anyone..." And then get pissed off when 90% of the forum population thinks that your idea wouldn't work...

Don't waste your breath. This is the same thing he does constantly on other sites.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm supporting JOURNEY - not addressing "rock fans."

See the difference.

I'm supporting JOURNEY and you're getting pissed at me. So I have to ask who the real JOURNEY fan is here?

I don't care if it gets me nowhere with a bunch of "rock fans." I only care if JOURNEY hears my applause for the idea.

About the remix - didn't I already answer that? NOBODY wants to hear a remix for the reasons I noted earlier. Not even yourself. You'll HATE it.

Come on, WyngDinger...
If you weren't trying to convince us "Rock Fans" that your idea is gold then you wouldn't have posted it here, followed by numerous replies trying to throw your idea down everyone's throats.
Give me a break. If you want Journey to hear your idea, write a letter to management. PM Jeff, he'll probably pass it on to Neal for you.
But don't rant about it in an open forum, continue to keep posting replies to back-up your idea and then plead that "I am not trying to convince anyone..." And then get pissed off when 90% of the forum population thinks that your idea wouldn't work...

You've been reading but not comprehending.

It's not MY idea!

When did I say or imply that I'm pissed off? If you're not interested in exploring JOURNEY's idea then feel free to sit out but don't try to hijack or detour things.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

If you weren't trying to convince us "Rock Fans" that your idea is gold then you wouldn't have posted it here, followed by numerous replies trying to throw your idea down everyone's throats.
Give me a break. If you want Journey to hear your idea, write a letter to management. PM Jeff, he'll probably pass it on to Neal for you.
But don't rant about it in an open forum, continue to keep posting replies to back-up your idea and then plead that "I am not trying to convince anyone..." And then get pissed off when 90% of the forum population thinks that your idea wouldn't work...

Don't waste your breath. This is the same thing he does constantly on other sites.

Right. I support JOURNEY on other sites.

[Matthew]

Fyre - I'm still waiting for a reply....

You said I dodged the issue about the 'heavy rock' option. But further up you'll see I didn't.

Also - saying that Journey are a clapped out, washed up old band that has done it all before and that only has one option to revive their career isn't what I'd call fulsome support of Journey.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Fyre - I'm still waiting for a reply....

You said I dodged the issue about the 'heavy rock' option. But further up you'll see I didn't.

Also - saying that Journey are a clapped out, washed up old band that has done it all before and that only has one option to revive their career isn't what I'd call fulsome support of Journey.

That's not what I said or implied - and you know it.

I've responded to the heavy rock talk. Again: do you REALLY want them to continue down that road:
- Produce another album that won't sell AND that will be unfairly compared to 1981 JOURNEY?
- Tour greatest hits?
- Fulfill Monker's prophecy?

I don't want that. I want JOURNEY to be vibrant and explore something that they're interested in. They voiced their interest in Latin rhythms and it appears I'm the only one who listened.

Why do you think they did ROR? Why do you think they did Frontiers? They could've kept cranking out cookie cutter sequels of E5C4P3 but they didn't.

Now all people want them to do is crank out cookie cutter heavy/melodic rock and tour the greatest hits!

PHAH!

[Matthew]

Fyre - I'm still waiting for a reply....

You said I dodged the issue about the 'heavy rock' option. But further up you'll see I didn't.

Also - saying that Journey are a clapped out, washed up old band that has done it all before and that only has one option to revive their career isn't what I'd call fulsome support of Journey.

That's not what I said or implied - and you know it.

I've responded to the heavy rock talk. Again: do you REALLY want them to continue down that road:
- Produce another album that won't sell AND that will be unfairly compared to 1981 JOURNEY?
- Tour greatest hits?
- Fulfill Monker's prophecy?

I don't want that. I want JOURNEY to be vibrant and explore something that they're interested in. They voiced their interest in Latin rhythms and it appears I'm the only one who listened.

Why do you think they did ROR? Why do you think they did Frontiers? They could've kept cranking out cookie cutter sequels of E5C4P3 but they didn't.

Now all people want them to do is crank out cookie cutter heavy/melodic rock and tour the greatest hits!

PHAH!

And I responded back to your sweeping dismissal of the "heavy rock talk":

"I disagree that "heavy" automatically means "old" or "stale". The heavy metal scene is pretty vibrant still...unlike the AOR scene. It all depends on the band and the producer. The new Metallica album produced by Rick Rubin is one of the most anticipated new records in years - amongst both old and new fans. And System of a Down are one of the hottest bands in the world now...

No, Journey isn't a metal band - but there's still scope to be heavy and reasonably interesting and different at the same time. Have Journey done all this before? Yes - on a handful of tracks. But they didn't have a heavy rock singer. Perry - for all his unlimited genius - was especially well-suited to the softer tracks.

And forgive me Fyre...Latin rhythms are much older than those of heavy rock. Heavy rock music has been around since the late 1960s/early 1970s...but salsa, samba, bossa nova? Am I right in thinking these types of music date back to the 1920s?

Fyre - you're just like me! You don't actually care how many fans Journey piss off as long as they play the style of music you want them to."

No-one wants "cookie cutter heavy/melodic rock". Why are you so convinced that this is what Journey will deliver next time around?

And aside from one quote from an interview....what other evidence is there to suggest that Journey are straining at the leash to 'go Latin'?

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Fyre - I'm still waiting for a reply....

You said I dodged the issue about the 'heavy rock' option. But further up you'll see I didn't.

Also - saying that Journey are a clapped out, washed up old band that has done it all before and that only has one option to revive their career isn't what I'd call fulsome support of Journey.

That's not what I said or implied - and you know it.

I've responded to the heavy rock talk. Again: do you REALLY want them to continue down that road:
- Produce another album that won't sell AND that will be unfairly compared to 1981 JOURNEY?
- Tour greatest hits?
- Fulfill Monker's prophecy?

I don't want that. I want JOURNEY to be vibrant and explore something that they're interested in. They voiced their interest in Latin rhythms and it appears I'm the only one who listened.

Why do you think they did ROR? Why do you think they did Frontiers? They could've kept cranking out cookie cutter sequels of E5C4P3 but they didn't.

Now all people want them to do is crank out cookie cutter heavy/melodic rock and tour the greatest hits!

PHAH!

And I responded back to your sweeping dismissal of the "heavy rock talk":

"I disagree that "heavy" automatically means "old" or "stale". The heavy metal scene is pretty vibrant still...unlike the AOR scene. It all depends on the band and the producer. The new Metallica album produced by Rick Rubin is one of the most anticipated new records in years - amongst both old and new fans. And System of a Down are one of the hottest bands in the world now...

No, Journey isn't a metal band - but there's still scope to be heavy and reasonably interesting and different at the same time. Have Journey done all this before? Yes - on a handful of tracks. But they didn't have a heavy rock singer. Perry - for all his unlimited genius - was especially well-suited to the softer tracks.

And forgive me Fyre...Latin rhythms are much older than those of heavy rock. Heavy rock music has been around since the late 1960s/early 1970s...but salsa, samba, bossa nova? Am I right in thinking these types of music date back to the 1920s?

Fyre - you're just like me! You don't actually care how many fans Journey piss off as long as they play the style of music you want them to."

No-one wants "cookie cutter heavy/melodic rock". Why are you so convinced that this is what Journey will deliver next time around?

And aside from one quote from an interview....what other evidence is there to suggest that Journey are straining at the leash to 'go Latin'?

Latin rhythms are older - and much older than the 20's - but I'm not talking about age when I say "old." You know that!

What other evidence is there? None. Does there have to be?

Dang! At least you've actually recognized the interview! Besides me I think you're the only other person that's done that! You most definitely are someone of taste!

Anything JOURNEY produces in the vein of melodic rock gets compared to the Steve Perry years. That's a FACT. Even JOURNEY makes these comparisons! And where does this lead? To mixed reviews, poor sales and a greatest hits tour.

It's time they make their escape. They had the idea 3 years ago and didn't jump on it for whatever reason. Probably because the audiences were going for beers. Yeah - true blue JOURNEY fans! REAL JOURNEY fans don't say, "What's that crap - I think I'll go get a beer."

Now is a great time to break away and do something that they wanted to do 3 years ago. Do it now to wake everybody up from the spell of being lost in the land of Tapegate, wiggles, and any other trivial diversion.

[Matthew]

Well..Fyre...I wouldn't be against Journey recording a song with a Latin rhythm - but I do think an entire album is pushing it.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Well..Fyre...I wouldn't be against Journey recording a song with a Latin rhythm - but I do think an entire album is pushing it.

For those who are at the very least partially hip to the idea that's the most common remark. That's why I created this thread to suggest the idea of create a "split" album with half devoted to rhythms and the other half devoted to blues.

[Matthew]

Can Deen play Latin rhytms? He sounds like a heavy-duty rock drummer to me....

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Can Deen play Latin rhytms? He sounds like a heavy-duty rock drummer to me....

I'm pretty sure he can play anything. It's not really all on his shoulders, though. Latin rhythms require more than one percussionist. Deen played with Gibby Ross when JOURNEY asked him to join them in Florida in 2003:

September 12, 2003
Group Adds Latin Percussionist for Trip Back to Early Hits

By Bill Dean
The Ledger
bill.dean@theledger.com

More than 30 years after Journey's first departure, in a career that saw it soar to the pinnacle of 1980s rock success, the band is moving ahead by taking a look back.

Formed around San Francisco guitarist Neal Schon in 1973, Journey's original lineup included two players who had made names for themselves in the first group known as Santana.

Keyboardist Gregg Rolie, who later shared lead vocals with Steve Perry on such Journey songs as "Feeling That Way," "Anytime" and "Just the Same Way," had sung lead on Santana hits "Black Magic Woman" and "Oye Como Va."

And guitarist Schon played the lead guitar solo on "Everybody's Everything" -- the highest-charting single from the 1971 album "Santana III."

Tonight at the USF Sun Dome in Tampa, and for only the fourth time in its history, Journey will pay homage to those early times by adding a Latin percussionist and playing both "Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen" and "Everybody's Everything."

"It's something that I've always loved," Schon says about Latin-style music. "And I've sort of missed playing with percussion ever since I was in the Santana band."

"We've only done it three times and in the (San Francisco) Bay area here. So I felt like this mini-tour would be a good place to check it out . . . especially in Florida with all the rhythm that's going on down there, I think people are going to be very receptive to it."

The group also will play "La Raza Del Sol," a Latin-flavored Journey song that first appeared as the B-side of a single off 1981's "Escape" album.

The Latin-fueled songs hint at some of the influences that inspired the first incarnation of Journey -- led by Schon and Rolie for three albums before Perry joined the band for 1978's "Infinity."

And, as shown by "La Raza Del Sol," co-written by Perry and keyboardist Jonathan Cain (who replaced Rolie in 1981), such influences remained as the group reinvented itself from heavy, progressive rock circa early 1970s into kingpins of the pop-rock hit single.

..."What was really funny was the audience that we had attained prior to Steve Perry coming in the band, really did not like where we went," Schon says.

"So I think we lost them and attained a whole other audience that was absolutely much bigger."

Bill Dean can be reached at bill.dean@theledger.com or 863-802-7527.

I highlighted some things that I think are especially noteworthy.

[Red13JoePa]

La Raza off the 2001 dvd. A Castronovo "Latin" showpiece.

[junky]

For those who are at the very least partially hip to the idea that's the most common remark. That's why I created this thread to suggest the idea of create a "split" album with half devoted to rhythms and the other half devoted to blues.

I have to say the title of the thread put me off. Rhythm and Blues to me means RnB. I certainly wouldn't want that from Journey, but I see you meant something different.

I pulled out some Abraxas Pool this weekend, played it at a party and the young kids were really into it. Boom Ba Ya Ya was a huge hit. A little Santana-like but Neal rocks out a lot more.

A big trend here in NYC bars is to bring in percussionists to play with the DJ. I'm not talking club music, they play over rock, RnB, disco, blues etc. For the most part, it sounds pretty cool and the patrons really get into it.

Just wanted to let you know that your idea is not too far-fetched and there is definitely an audience for it.

As far as Journey doing it, I think it's up to them as to what they feel like doing, but someone needs to tap into this market.
It's hot right now.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

For those who are at the very least partially hip to the idea that's the most common remark. That's why I created this thread to suggest the idea of create a "split" album with half devoted to rhythms and the other half devoted to blues.

I have to say the title of the thread put me off. Rhythm and Blues to me means RnB. I certainly wouldn't want that from Journey, but I see you meant something different.

I pulled out some Abraxas Pool this weekend, played it at a party and the young kids were really into it. Boom Ba Ya Ya was a huge hit. A little Santana-like but Neal rocks out a lot more.

A big trend here in NYC bars is to bring in percussionists to play with the DJ. I'm not talking club music, they play over rock, RnB, disco, blues etc. For the most part, it sounds pretty cool and the patrons really get into it.

Just wanted to let you know that your idea is not too far-fetched and there is definitely an audience for it.

As far as Journey doing it, I think it's up to them as to what they feel like doing, but someone needs to tap into this market.
It's hot right now.

YES!!!

YOU are someone with vision and ears to hear!!! Thanks for the input - I'm glad you took another look at the thread!

I want to emphasize that while the R&B idea is mine the idea to explore Latin rhythms is JOURNEY's. It was hot 3 years ago when JOURNEY was in Florida and it's hotter now!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

La Raza off the 2001 dvd. A Castronovo "Latin" showpiece.

THANKS!!!