UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE

[RedWingFan]

This topic is going south fast....no more gerbil shit, seriously.

Yeah I think it's about time you send JSS on vacation for starting this Andrew. He's conforming and becoming a bit of a trouble maker As the great Barney Fife would say, "You need to nip this in the bud, Andy"

[yulog]

ok no more gerbals

lets move on to

[McNeil]

Just joking Andrew... your wombat was an easy target!

That's fine mate....you can never tell the intent behind these things...so after being under attack most of the last week from a couple of ungrateful posters, I was unsure of your motives. I'm fine with it now....I realize the joke...

im presuming you dont mean me..as I posted one comment in one thread.. and didnt ask anyone to comment.... it was all just my opinion...but hey..Im the bad guy around here Andrew, it seems... and its just because Im not in Deano's team! Never said I was ungrateful.... the board generally has some good stuff from very informed people...also your web site is second to none for melodic rock..and I champion your site at any opportunity.and as a paid up member of Mr X ..it says it all!

Keep on rockin Big Wombat!!

and also..I did write a favourable comment on the board, after you re instated me after "vacation"

Its all good.. even when its bad!

[fredinator]

Hi, I'm new... Hope this isn't a too dumb question, but was wondering: the duet wouldn't happen to be JSS and SP, would it? (Am now running for cover...)

Thanks!

P.S. Love this forum--so much fun!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

And how would you propose Journey will suddenly have a hit single?

Hint: I advocated this idea a few times in the last two years.

How about another Hint, like, just tell me your idea I've only been here acouple months.

It must be the idea of doing a duet which is what I've been advocating for the last 3 years.

At the time I brought it up I suggested Shakira. Neal was supposed to have been planning some work with her, too but things never transpired. I even wrote a sappy love duet for the idea. Shakira's star was on the rise at the time and now she's shooting. It could still work with her.

[Matthew]

Have you seen ANYTHING resembling Journey in the charts lately?

Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, U2, Nickelback.....etc..etc....

These bands do not mirror Journey.

Def Leppard is being blown away nightly.

Bon Jovi makes Augeri led Journey look awesome. They lip more than anyone.

Aerosmith is junk.

U2 is overrated

Deano - I completely agree with all your assessments of these bands - but like it or not they are all in the melodic rock genre. As are Journey. The fact is....these groups still chart and Journey don't...and I'm bored shitless with all the excuses about it. It's just not good enough. Period.

So...it's time that Journey get back on track in a big way....and from what you and many others are saying...this is exactly what they're doing.

[Matthew]

And I agree, they DO want it all again. BUT, they need a label, promotion and someone at the helm who gives a shit. .

I totally agree, Saint John....

[Matthew]

Have you seen ANYTHING resembling Journey in the charts lately?

Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, U2, Nickelback.....etc..etc....

All with their "famous" singers...

How the hell did Nickelback sneak into that group?

Well, that's a seductive argument for any Perry fan. You're saying that Journey can't be successful without him.

Until recently that's exactly what I thought - but now with the arrival of JSS I'm feeling optimistic that Journey are in with a chance again...

As for Nickelback... they got in there because they play melodic rock. Third-rate, derivative melodic rock to be sure...but the dreaded music industry which supposedly is trying to marginalize bands like Journey and promote Britney instead are...totally behind Nickelback.

[Matthew]

I gave my take on the upcoming music/song/hit. Those who don't believe, well, I am not surprised. Monker never agrees with me on anything, yet he is wrong on everything. Some here always side with him, and always go against me, and some side with me as well. I think I have accumulated some Melodicrock capital here lately, and I intend on spending some of it.

There will be a hit song on radio next year, and Journey will be involved. That's all I am saying.

Back beforeTBF was released, someone on the Journey mailing list got an advanced copy. The singles were out, including "When You Love a Woman". The guy on the mailing list, who pretty much is your twin personality, INSISTED there were "better ballads on the album" and "there are at least three more hit songs coming up"

So, excuse me for not taking the word of somebody who is VERY biased and seems to go against every logical reason against these 'predictions' happening.

I have absolutely NO reason to believe it will.

With a tour, I believe "If He Should Break Your Heart" and "Forever In Blue" would've charted on AC. IHSBYH was the best ballad in my opinion. Awesome song. Neal's guitar "talks" on that song.

First of all, we were talking POP charts back then. We hadn't reduced Journey to only being able to chart on AC.

Secondly, the FACT is - it didn't happen - none of those charted.

Thirdly, I consider ALL of those songs mediocre at best - especialy compared to Journey's pre-ROR songs with Perry. I doubt they would have charted, even with a tour. Did a tour help Arrival singles chart? Nope...Touring is PART of promotion - not all of it...and TBF had PLENTLY of promotion.

But "When You Love a Woman" got to Number 12 on the main Billboard chart - and Number 1 on the AC chart. It was the only song to have a video made for it - and even that was late....

Perry didn't participate in much of the PR campaign and there was no tour. The album sold over a million copies nonetheless....

All this at the absolute height of the backlash against 80s style melodic rock.

So I really don't understand why you are citing TBF as a example of Journey's 'inability' to be successful again.

[Matthew]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

[Moon Beam]

Wombat, keep whopping us lot around.
Maybe we'll conform one day

[The_Noble_Cause]

It's funny, in a way, cuz TNC and Dean think they are so unique...

The only guy with a holier-than-thou egomaniacal attitude on display here is you.
I've never pontificated on my uniqueness or my "craft" or any similar narcisstic choad-like behavior.
I'm just a guy with an opinion.

Now please regale us with more of your gastrointestinal gerbil exploits in the private room of the HotRod Gay Bar circa 1970's San Francisco.
Is it true you were the first queer on the planet to succesfully cram a Great Dane all the way up his ass?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Hint: I advocated this idea a few times in the last two years.

Duet or Soundtrack?
'Cuz they already tried the hit movie soundtrack idea and it went nowehere.

[McNeil]

It's funny, in a way, cuz TNC and Dean think they are so unique...

The only guy with a holier-than-thou egomaniacal attitude on display here is you.
I've never pontificated on my uniqueness or my "craft" or any similar narcisstic choad-like behavior.
I'm just a guy with an opinion.

Now please regale us with more of your gastrointestinal gerbil exploits in the private room of the HotRod Gay Bar circa 1970's San Francisco.
Is it true you were the first queer on the planet to succesfully cram a Great Dane all the way up his ass?

Jeez.... haha .... conjurs up a wild image in the minds eye!! Priceless !!

[The Fly]

I ain't buying it. How much are they paying you for all this crap anyway huh?

[Monker]

I gave my take on the upcoming music/song/hit. Those who don't believe, well, I am not surprised. Monker never agrees with me on anything, yet he is wrong on everything. Some here always side with him, and always go against me, and some side with me as well. I think I have accumulated some Melodicrock capital here lately, and I intend on spending some of it.

There will be a hit song on radio next year, and Journey will be involved. That's all I am saying.

Back beforeTBF was released, someone on the Journey mailing list got an advanced copy. The singles were out, including "When You Love a Woman". The guy on the mailing list, who pretty much is your twin personality, INSISTED there were "better ballads on the album" and "there are at least three more hit songs coming up"

So, excuse me for not taking the word of somebody who is VERY biased and seems to go against every logical reason against these 'predictions' happening.

I have absolutely NO reason to believe it will.

With a tour, I believe "If He Should Break Your Heart" and "Forever In Blue" would've charted on AC. IHSBYH was the best ballad in my opinion. Awesome song. Neal's guitar "talks" on that song.

First of all, we were talking POP charts back then. We hadn't reduced Journey to only being able to chart on AC.

Secondly, the FACT is - it didn't happen - none of those charted.

Thirdly, I consider ALL of those songs mediocre at best - especialy compared to Journey's pre-ROR songs with Perry. I doubt they would have charted, even with a tour. Did a tour help Arrival singles chart? Nope...Touring is PART of promotion - not all of it...and TBF had PLENTLY of promotion.

But "When You Love a Woman" got to Number 12 on the main Billboard chart - and Number 1 on the AC chart. It was the only song to have a video made for it - and even that was late....

Perry didn't participate in much of the PR campaign and there was no tour. The album sold over a million copies nonetheless....

All this at the absolute height of the backlash against 80s style melodic rock.

So I really don't understand why you are citing TBF as a example of Journey's 'inability' to be successful again.

That is NOT what I am arguing. I am using it as an example of why I take the words of those "in the know" not soooo seriously. They may believe they are the shit, but they are peons just like the rest of us and their "this is going to happen..." stories are just as suspect as anybody elses...You can look at the cake and guess what it taste likes all you want. You may even know all of the ingredients, personaly know the baker, and be best buds with all of those involved. in creating it and tasted a sample of a test recipe. .But, until you've tasted the real cake, what do you REALLY know?

[Monker]

Wombat, keep whopping us lot around.
Maybe we'll conform one day

Frankly, I think it's kinda funny thta he's asking us (or me, really) to stop the "gerbil shit". I had to laugh at that.

[Monker]

The only guy with a holier-than-thou egomaniacal attitude on display here is you.

OMG, really? You are, like, the first person who has ever accused me of that. I'm like, all shocked, and stuff.

[X factor]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

WOW! I should make inflamatory statements more often...it's kinda fun!
Matthew,
Your reasoning is sound on all this, I just don't think that the "old guard" think that way anymore. I've seen / heard too many instances of these guys not really wanting to go through the "hassle" of making new music the old fashioned way. Face it folks, the model has changed. People don't get their music like we used to, SOUND SCAN has totally changed the definition of "having a hit", and quite frankly , most of the "old fans" (this group excepted- you people really are amazing in your loyalty to this band- I'm sincere in saying that too...) simply don't care about a band's new catalogue. There was a GREAT piece on VH1 a few years back that illustrated this: They had set up at an outdoor show Night Ranger was playing at. The place was packed with fans of NR's CLASSIC sound...when they interviewed the audience, not ONE PERSON they interviewed was even aware of their new album nor did they show the LEAST bit of interest in purchasing it. As long as they played SISTER CHRISTIAN all was well...that's the world we live in now, I'm afraid. And a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now. All we, and the generations after us, have had crammed down our throats for the last 15 years is "Classic ROck" catalogues of these bands. Hell, you can't even hear new Tom Petty or Mellancamp or even Springsteen on these stations (all three still very vibrant, relative artists). Nope, just a steady diet of the same old shit! Yes, there are exceptions (rare though they are- I'll give you Bon Jovi and Maybe DL- U2 is not anywhere near the catagory of Journey, and Nickleback is watered down Grunge...and honestly what the hell has Aerosmith done since MISS A THING?>)
but these are the exceptions, not the rule. Here, to illustrate my point, is one of this past weeks charts:
1 5 Too Little Too Late JoJo
2 3 London Bridge Fergie
3 1 SexyBack Justin Timberlake
4 4 Lips Of An Angel Hinder
5 -- Chasing Cars Snow Patrol
6 10 Ring The Alarm Beyonce
7 9 Chain Hang Low Jibbs
8 6 Promiscuous Nelly Furtado Featuring Timbaland
9 -- How To Save A Life Fray
10 -- Get Up Ciara Featuring Chamillionaire

Other than wanting to bang Fergie, I see NOTHING of interest in that...

And btw- I ain't being NEGATIVE...I'm just expressing an opinion. I thought that's what you guys got so pissed at the BACK TALK people for- that it was nothing but a Journey cheering section. I love the band- their music means a great deal to me. It was part of the soundtrack to my youth- hell, I lost my virginity in the back seat of a Ford LTD listening to an 8 track of DEPARTURE...I love these guys. And I've dug JSS ever since he was with Malmsteen (and God help him for enduring that jail sentence!) I'm just, as the kids say, trying to keep it real!

[The Fly]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

WOW! I should make inflamatory statements more often...it's kinda fun!
Matthew,
Your reasoning is sound on all this, I just don't think that the "old guard" think that way anymore. I've seen / heard too many instances of these guys not really wanting to go through the "hassle" of making new music the old fashioned way. Face it folks, the model has changed. People don't get their music like we used to, SOUND SCAN has totally changed the definition of "having a hit", and quite frankly , most of the "old fans" (this group excepted- you people really are amazing in your loyalty to this band- I'm sincere in saying that too...) simply don't care about a band's new catalogue. There was a GREAT piece on VH1 a few years back that illustrated this: They had set up at an outdoor show Night Ranger was playing at. The place was packed with fans of NR's CLASSIC sound...when they interviewed the audience, not ONE PERSON they interviewed was even aware of their new album nor did they show the LEAST bit of interest in purchasing it. As long as they played SISTER CHRISTIAN all was well...that's the world we live in now, I'm afraid. And a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now. All we, and the generations after us, have had crammed down our throats for the last 15 years is "Classic ROck" catalogues of these bands. Hell, you can't even hear new Tom Petty or Mellancamp or even Springsteen on these stations (all three still very vibrant, relative artists). Nope, just a steady diet of the same old shit! Yes, there are exceptions (rare though they are- I'll give you Bon Jovi and Maybe DL- U2 is not anywhere near the catagory of Journey, and Nickleback is watered down Grunge...and honestly what the hell has Aerosmith done since MISS A THING?>)
but these are the exceptions, not the rule. Here, to illustrate my point, is one of this past weeks charts:
1 5 Too Little Too Late JoJo
2 3 London Bridge Fergie
3 1 SexyBack Justin Timberlake
4 4 Lips Of An Angel Hinder
5 -- Chasing Cars Snow Patrol
6 10 Ring The Alarm Beyonce
7 9 Chain Hang Low Jibbs
8 6 Promiscuous Nelly Furtado Featuring Timbaland
9 -- How To Save A Life Fray
10 -- Get Up Ciara Featuring Chamillionaire

Other than wanting to bang Fergie, I see NOTHING of interest in that...

And btw- I ain't being NEGATIVE...I'm just expressing an opinion. I thought that's what you guys got so pissed at the BACK TALK people for- that it was nothing but a Journey cheering section. I love the band- their music means a great deal to me. It was part of the soundtrack to my youth- hell, I lost my virginity in the back seat of a Ford LTD listening to an 8 track of DEPARTURE...I love these guys. And I've dug JSS ever since he was with Malmsteen (and God help him for enduring that jail sentence!) I'm just, as the kids say, trying to keep it real!

Great post Blockhead!! Radio has ruined it. I won't even listen to it anymore. It's all junk and stuff I have heard too many times. They ruined many of the bands they promote. It's all messed up. Boycot radio!! You are so right, nothing in that list (but banging Fergie) that I would ever listen to.

[Matthew]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

WOW! I should make inflamatory statements more often...it's kinda fun!
Matthew,
Your reasoning is sound on all this, I just don't think that the "old guard" think that way anymore. I've seen / heard too many instances of these guys not really wanting to go through the "hassle" of making new music the old fashioned way. Face it folks, the model has changed. People don't get their music like we used to, SOUND SCAN has totally changed the definition of "having a hit", and quite frankly , most of the "old fans" (this group excepted- you people really are amazing in your loyalty to this band- I'm sincere in saying that too...) simply don't care about a band's new catalogue. There was a GREAT piece on VH1 a few years back that illustrated this: They had set up at an outdoor show Night Ranger was playing at. The place was packed with fans of NR's CLASSIC sound...when they interviewed the audience, not ONE PERSON they interviewed was even aware of their new album nor did they show the LEAST bit of interest in purchasing it. As long as they played SISTER CHRISTIAN all was well...that's the world we live in now, I'm afraid. And a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now. All we, and the generations after us, have had crammed down our throats for the last 15 years is "Classic ROck" catalogues of these bands. Hell, you can't even hear new Tom Petty or Mellancamp or even Springsteen on these stations (all three still very vibrant, relative artists). Nope, just a steady diet of the same old shit! Yes, there are exceptions (rare though they are- I'll give you Bon Jovi and Maybe DL- U2 is not anywhere near the catagory of Journey, and Nickleback is watered down Grunge...and honestly what the hell has Aerosmith done since MISS A THING?>)
but these are the exceptions, not the rule. Here, to illustrate my point, is one of this past weeks charts:
1 5 Too Little Too Late JoJo
2 3 London Bridge Fergie
3 1 SexyBack Justin Timberlake
4 4 Lips Of An Angel Hinder
5 -- Chasing Cars Snow Patrol
6 10 Ring The Alarm Beyonce
7 9 Chain Hang Low Jibbs
8 6 Promiscuous Nelly Furtado Featuring Timbaland
9 -- How To Save A Life Fray
10 -- Get Up Ciara Featuring Chamillionaire

Other than wanting to bang Fergie, I see NOTHING of interest in that...

Okay - let's look at the artists in this week's Billboard album chart:


1) Justin Timberlake

2) John Mayer

3) Beyonce

4) Bob Segar

5) Bob Dylan

6) Lionel Ritchie

7) Hinder

Danity Kane

9) The Mars Volta

10) Nickelback


I count four "old guard" musicians in there - that's 40% of the current chart taken up by artists who were big in the 70s and 80s.

Add to that Mars Volta - a prog/metal band....and Nickelback - a melodic rock group (and no - I don't believe they are post-grunge or alternative - for example "Hero", the power ballad from the Spiderman movie owes nothing to Nirvana or Pearl Jam).

X Factor...as for your Night Ranger analogy....come on...Night Ranger are a third division AOR band - pretty much a one-hit wonder - and certainly nowhere near in the same league as Journey. A MILLION fans bought Journey's new material when they made a comeback in 1996. Sure, Journey went on to alienate a large section of their CD buying audience in the years that followed. But this wasn't because the material was new. It was because it was crap.

You say that "a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now." Well, that's exactly what Rolling Stone and MTV were saying in 1981 about the dominance of Journey, Styx and Reo Speedwagon on market-researched radio playlists.

People have been complaining about narrow playlists since the late 1970s. Yet I get the impression that there are thousands of niche stations in America. Is it really true that none of them play new music by old artists? If so - how did Bob Segar get back in the chart?

You also suggest that Journey might not want the hassle of recording and releasing new music.

Well, it's true that there has been a lot of evidence that Journey became apathetic and a lacking in creativity. But it seems they've they've found their enthusiasm and ambition again.

Or maybe I'm a just an over-optimistic fan who won't listen to reason?

[NealIsGod]

[X factor]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

WOW! I should make inflamatory statements more often...it's kinda fun!
Matthew,
Your reasoning is sound on all this, I just don't think that the "old guard" think that way anymore. I've seen / heard too many instances of these guys not really wanting to go through the "hassle" of making new music the old fashioned way. Face it folks, the model has changed. People don't get their music like we used to, SOUND SCAN has totally changed the definition of "having a hit", and quite frankly , most of the "old fans" (this group excepted- you people really are amazing in your loyalty to this band- I'm sincere in saying that too...) simply don't care about a band's new catalogue. There was a GREAT piece on VH1 a few years back that illustrated this: They had set up at an outdoor show Night Ranger was playing at. The place was packed with fans of NR's CLASSIC sound...when they interviewed the audience, not ONE PERSON they interviewed was even aware of their new album nor did they show the LEAST bit of interest in purchasing it. As long as they played SISTER CHRISTIAN all was well...that's the world we live in now, I'm afraid. And a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now. All we, and the generations after us, have had crammed down our throats for the last 15 years is "Classic ROck" catalogues of these bands. Hell, you can't even hear new Tom Petty or Mellancamp or even Springsteen on these stations (all three still very vibrant, relative artists). Nope, just a steady diet of the same old shit! Yes, there are exceptions (rare though they are- I'll give you Bon Jovi and Maybe DL- U2 is not anywhere near the catagory of Journey, and Nickleback is watered down Grunge...and honestly what the hell has Aerosmith done since MISS A THING?>)
but these are the exceptions, not the rule. Here, to illustrate my point, is one of this past weeks charts:
1 5 Too Little Too Late JoJo
2 3 London Bridge Fergie
3 1 SexyBack Justin Timberlake
4 4 Lips Of An Angel Hinder
5 -- Chasing Cars Snow Patrol
6 10 Ring The Alarm Beyonce
7 9 Chain Hang Low Jibbs
8 6 Promiscuous Nelly Furtado Featuring Timbaland
9 -- How To Save A Life Fray
10 -- Get Up Ciara Featuring Chamillionaire

Other than wanting to bang Fergie, I see NOTHING of interest in that...

Okay - let's look at the artists in this week's Billboard album chart:


1) Justin Timberlake

2) John Mayer

3) Beyonce

4) Bob Segar

5) Bob Dylan

6) Lionel Ritchie

7) Hinder

Danity Kane

9) The Mars Volta

10) Nickelback


I count four "old guard" musicians in there - that's 40% of the current chart taken up by artists who were big in the 70s and 80s.

Add to that Mars Volta - a prog/metal band....and Nickelback - a melodic rock group (and no - I don't believe they are post-grunge or alternative - for example "Hero", the power ballad from the Spiderman movie owes nothing to Nirvana or Pearl Jam).

X Factor...as for your Night Ranger analogy....come on...Night Ranger are a third division AOR band - pretty much a one-hit wonder - and certainly nowhere near in the same league as Journey. A MILLION fans bought Journey's new material when they made a comeback in 1996. Sure, Journey went on to alienate a large section of their CD buying audience in the years that followed. But this wasn't because the material was new. It was because it was crap.

You say that "a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now." Well, that's exactly what Rolling Stone and MTV were saying in 1981 about the dominance of Journey, Styx and Reo Speedwagon on market-researched radio playlists.

People have been complaining about narrow playlists since the late 1970s. Yet I get the impression that there are thousands of niche stations in America. Is it really true that none of them play new music by old artists? If so - how did Bob Segar get back in the chart?

You also suggest that Journey might not want the hassle of recording and releasing new music.

Well, it's true that there has been a lot of evidence that Journey became apathetic and a lacking in creativity. But it seems they've they've found their enthusiasm and ambition again.



Or maybe I'm a just an over-optimistic fan who won't listen to reason?

We'll see, I guess. But for now...I'm choosing to believe that Journey are on the up.

Some good points...but...
I totally disagree that Night Ranger are a "one hit wonder"- while certainly not on Journey's level, I think you're probably talking about alot of the same type of fans there. The analogy, to me, is solid. Sure Journey sold a million copies in 96 (which was, btw 10 years ago...a lifetime in terms of pop culture) but once again, who was the lead singer during that little outing? That springs back to the genesis of my post. I firmly believe that if SP makes a comeback, it would be a huge cash grab for them. But for as great as JSS is (and I do truly dig the guy- to me he's an example of how fucked up things in the industry are- the fact that that guy ain't a household name is a prime example of how screwed the biz is today) I just don't see it happening in a big way with him. I hope I'm wrong...I really do.

For your album charts...Seger's album, for instance, sold 150,000 copies. I guarentee that ten years ago that figure would barely help an album crack the top 100. And, as many have pointed out, lets see what that album does next week. There are obviously 150,000 Seger diehards out there who'll buy everything he puts out, but where's the two or 3 million who bought LIKE A ROCK? I'll tell you where...still listening to it on Clear Channel's CLASSIC SHIT RADIO, that's where...either that, or they downloaded it illeaglly. Face it, the model has changed. 150 k for a new Seger album back in the day would've been considered an epic failure! Now we're celebrating it?
And the as far as the "dominance of Journey, Styx and Reo Speedwagon on market-researched radio playlists" back in the 80's, the difference is that they were talking about new product. Now days, STYX, REO or Journey couldn't get a new song on rock radio if their lives depended on it. Not in most of the US- yes, there are some areas with smaller, diverse stations, but those, once again, are rare. The idea "that there are thousands of niche stations in America" is a lovely dream, but it is indeed just that...not on the mainstream airwaves my friend. COllege radio, Internet, XM, etc, yes...but not the FM dial. It's littered with the same boring shit played over and over again.

I,too, think that they've "found their enthusiasm and ambition again." And good for them...I, personally, will be one of the happy few to plunk down my hard earned jack to see what they came up with. I do hope it's better than GENERATIONS, though!

...and ROR...what a turd that album was!

[Matthew]

Some good points...but...
I totally disagree that Night Ranger are a "one hit wonder"- while certainly not on Journey's level, I think you're probably talking about alot of the same type of fans there. The analogy, to me, is solid. Sure Journey sold a million copies in 96 (which was, btw 10 years ago...a lifetime in terms of pop culture) but once again, who was the lead singer during that little outing? That springs back to the genesis of my post. I firmly believe that if SP makes a comeback, it would be a huge cash grab for them. But for as great as JSS is (and I do truly dig the guy- to me he's an example of how fucked up things in the industry are- the fact that that guy ain't a household name is a prime example of how screwed the biz is today) I just don't see it happening in a big way with him. I hope I'm wrong...I really do.

For your album charts...Seger's album, for instance, sold 150,000 copies. I guarentee that ten years ago that figure would barely help an album crack the top 100. And, as many have pointed out, lets see what that album does next week. There are obviously 150,000 Seger diehards out there who'll buy everything he puts out, but where's the two or 3 million who bought LIKE A ROCK? I'll tell you where...still listening to it on Clear Channel's CLASSIC SHIT RADIO, that's where...either that, or they downloaded it illeaglly. Face it, the model has changed. 150 k for a new Seger album back in the day would've been considered an epic failure! Now we're celebrating it?
And the as far as the "dominance of Journey, Styx and Reo Speedwagon on market-researched radio playlists" back in the 80's, the difference is that they were talking about new product. Now days, STYX, REO or Journey couldn't get a new song on rock radio if their lives depended on it. Not in most of the US- yes, there are some areas with smaller, diverse stations, but those, once again, are rare. The idea "that there are thousands of niche stations in America" is a lovely dream, but it is indeed just that...not on the mainstream airwaves my friend. COllege radio, Internet, XM, etc, yes...but not the FM dial. It's littered with the same boring shit played over and over again.

I,too, think that they've "found their enthusiasm and ambition again." And good for them...I, personally, will be one of the happy few to plunk down my hard earned jack to see what they came up with. I do hope it's better than GENERATIONS, though!

...and ROR...what a turd that album was!

Yes - good points - and it's true that acts can have chart success even if their sales are relatively low - and this didn't used to be the case. But surely if it's so easy to get on the Billboard chart then Journey are in with a better chance than ever? In fact, it would be a disaster if Journey didn't get on the chart if all it takes is 150,000 to break the Top Ten.

As for radio....SOMEBODY must be playing the Segar album...and the Dylan and Ritchie albums....and aren't subscription radio and podcasts offering variety and new music from old groups?

The 1981 point...well, we're talking about new product too. The argument often made is that classic rock bands can't get their new music heard because of a stranglehold on the radio by pop, rap and r n b acts and nostalgia shows. It's not that different a situation to the one where new wave bands couldn't get their latest releases heard in the early 1980s because of the stranglehold Journey had on the playlists. Plus a range of 70s groups were struggling to get new material heard in 1981....

The point is...commercial mainstream radio has been restrictive and narrow for nearly thirty years.

But I'm with you on Perry. His return is of course by far their best chance of a "huge cash grab" - and for me it will always be the dream scenario. But I still think the situation with Journey has gone from being uttterly hopeless and depressing earlier this year....to promising and interesting now.

...and "Sister Christian"...what a turd that record was!

[Natalie]

This topic is going south fast....no more gerbil shit, seriously.

Yeah I think it's about time you send JSS on vacation for starting this Andrew. He's conforming and becoming a bit of a trouble maker As the great Barney Fife would say, "You need to nip this in the bud, Andy"

Sorry Andrew, I'll take the blame for this one! Don't "send JSS on vacation" for starting it, it was my fault for bringing it back up again. I thought I was asking an innocent question, if I had any idea, I never would have asked the question (obviously)!

You just make sure you let JSS know that I took the fall for him!!!!

[Monker]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

None of that happens with bands like Journey any longer. What publishing royalties are they going to get off of Arrival? Like I said, they did whatever JDK wanted and they still got screwed. What "mass audience" is going to hear the album if the label doesn't promote it? Why would other melodic rock bands who have released new music over the past few years envy Journey, who are basicaly in the same boat for new releases?

[Monker]

So, WHY would Journey want to be on a major label. WHY would Journey TRY to have a hit? WHY would Journey take the time away from the money on the road to do what it takes to MAKE a hit?

NONE of it makes sense. It's a fantasy.

Er...publishing royalties....having a mass audience hear your new music...the respect and envy of your peers...feeling like you're not a total has-been....little things like that....

WOW! I should make inflamatory statements more often...it's kinda fun!
Matthew,
Your reasoning is sound on all this, I just don't think that the "old guard" think that way anymore. I've seen / heard too many instances of these guys not really wanting to go through the "hassle" of making new music the old fashioned way. Face it folks, the model has changed. People don't get their music like we used to, SOUND SCAN has totally changed the definition of "having a hit", and quite frankly , most of the "old fans" (this group excepted- you people really are amazing in your loyalty to this band- I'm sincere in saying that too...) simply don't care about a band's new catalogue. There was a GREAT piece on VH1 a few years back that illustrated this: They had set up at an outdoor show Night Ranger was playing at. The place was packed with fans of NR's CLASSIC sound...when they interviewed the audience, not ONE PERSON they interviewed was even aware of their new album nor did they show the LEAST bit of interest in purchasing it. As long as they played SISTER CHRISTIAN all was well...that's the world we live in now, I'm afraid. And a LARGE chunk of the blame goes to the corporate whores that run the airwaves now. All we, and the generations after us, have had crammed down our throats for the last 15 years is "Classic ROck" catalogues of these bands. Hell, you can't even hear new Tom Petty or Mellancamp or even Springsteen on these stations (all three still very vibrant, relative artists). Nope, just a steady diet of the same old shit! Yes, there are exceptions (rare though they are- I'll give you Bon Jovi and Maybe DL- U2 is not anywhere near the catagory of Journey, and Nickleback is watered down Grunge...and honestly what the hell has Aerosmith done since MISS A THING?>)
but these are the exceptions, not the rule. Here, to illustrate my point, is one of this past weeks charts:
1 5 Too Little Too Late JoJo
2 3 London Bridge Fergie
3 1 SexyBack Justin Timberlake
4 4 Lips Of An Angel Hinder
5 -- Chasing Cars Snow Patrol
6 10 Ring The Alarm Beyonce
7 9 Chain Hang Low Jibbs
8 6 Promiscuous Nelly Furtado Featuring Timbaland
9 -- How To Save A Life Fray
10 -- Get Up Ciara Featuring Chamillionaire

Other than wanting to bang Fergie, I see NOTHING of interest in that...

You nailed it...EVERY piece of it. For Journey to have anything resembling a hit, even if Perry DID do a 'duet' for them, it would take so much effort, and money, and time, etc...that I just don't see either Journey or a label feeling the investment is worth the return.

And btw- I ain't being NEGATIVE...I'm just expressing an opinion. I thought that's what you guys got so pissed at the BACK TALK people for- that it was nothing but a Journey cheering section. I love the band- their music means a great deal to me. It was part of the soundtrack to my youth- hell, I lost my virginity in the back seat of a Ford LTD listening to an 8 track of DEPARTURE...I love these guys. And I've dug JSS ever since he was with Malmsteen (and God help him for enduring that jail sentence!) I'm just, as the kids say, trying to keep it real!

You nailed this too...The differences between this forum and BT are: You can say fuck here without being banned. The women there get all hot for Augeri. The women here get all hot over JSS. There are Augeri cheerleaders there, JSS cheerleaders here. The blow things out of proportion for Augeri, ths forum does it for JSS. Same type of talk, really.

[Rockindeano]

Ok. I can certifiably say that Perry is not on the list, short or otherwise, for a duet. Come on people! Think!

[yulog]

This topic is going south fast....no more gerbil shit, seriously.

Yeah I think it's about time you send JSS on vacation for starting this Andrew. He's conforming and becoming a bit of a trouble maker As the great Barney Fife would say, "You need to nip this in the bud, Andy"

Sorry Andrew, I'll take the blame for this one! Don't "send JSS on vacation" for starting it, it was my fault for bringing it back up again. I thought I was asking an innocent question, if I had any idea, I never would have asked the question (obviously)!

You just make sure you let JSS know that I took the fall for him!!!!

HEY,


-- theres nothing innocent about you!

[SteveForever]

Ok. I can certifiably say that Perry is not on the list, short or otherwise, for a duet. Come on people! Think!

I hope its not Melesbo Etheridge, some of ya'll like her, I don't.