STATE OF THE JOURNEY BOARD ADDRESS

[Red13JoePa]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

[NoMoreTails]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

This silence (and ROR), not the issue of who is or isn't singing, is the reason Journey hasn't stayed as big as U2, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, etc. This band lost a quarter of its life waiting for Perry.

[Red13JoePa]

Yep.
They were freaking HUGE and then.....gone virtually overnigth.

[Matthew]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

Well, Schon and Cain weren't in limbo. The late 1980s and early 1990s wre the only time they ever enjoyed commercial success without Perry to hold their hands - so there's no need to portray them as passive victims.

[conversationpc]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

Well, Schon and Cain weren't in limbo. The late 1980s and early 1990s wre the only time they ever enjoyed commercial success without Perry to hold their hands - so there's no need to portray them as passive victims.

Even then, most of their success, in my opinion, was due to "When I See You Smile", which was not written by them. "Price of Love" was a good tune but only a minor hit, in comparison.

[Red13JoePa]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

Well, Schon and Cain weren't in limbo. The late 1980s and early 1990s wre the only time they ever enjoyed commercial success without Perry to hold their hands - so there's no need to portray them as passive victims.

Even then, most of their success, in my opinion, was due to "When I See You Smile", which was not written by them. "Price of Love" was a good tune but only a minor hit, in comparison.

Christ almighty.

ANYTHING to deny Schon/Cain credit for that Bad English hit.

[Matthew]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

This silence (and ROR), not the issue of who is or isn't singing, is the reason Journey hasn't stayed as big as U2, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, etc. This band lost a quarter of its life waiting for Perry.

We can't be sure of that at all. Look what happened to Foreigner, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Chicago...and indeed almost EVERY melodic rock group fell into an abyss when the grunge/alternative scene kicked in.

Aerosmith has already had a period inb the wilderness back in the late 70s/early 80s...and Bon Jovi...well, their success is beyond my understanding anyway.

Perry had a BREAKDOWN. Sure - I wish he was able and willing to slog his guts out on tour for twenty years non-stop - but he could only do this for eight years and in that time he and Journey were total world-beaters. I'd be grateful for THAT and not whine on twenty years later because the guy went off the rails.

[conversationpc]

Christ almighty.

ANYTHING to deny Schon/Cain credit for that Bad English hit.

Sorry, but I really despise people taking the Lord's name in vain. Not necessary and completely disrespectful.

Anyway...I don't deny them credit at all. Schon is my all time favorite guitarist and favorite member of the band, period. However, they didn't write that song. They performed it and did it well but they just don't get the total credit for it.

[Matthew]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

Well, Schon and Cain weren't in limbo. The late 1980s and early 1990s wre the only time they ever enjoyed commercial success without Perry to hold their hands - so there's no need to portray them as passive victims.

Even then, most of their success, in my opinion, was due to "When I See You Smile", which was not written by them. "Price of Love" was a good tune but only a minor hit, in comparison.

That's right Dave...it was written by Diane Warren.

[Red13JoePa]

Christ almighty.

ANYTHING to deny Schon/Cain credit for that Bad English hit.

Sorry, but I really despise people taking the Lord's name in vain. Not necessary and completely disrespectful.

Anyway...I don't deny them credit at all. Schon is my all time favorite guitarist and favorite member of the band, period. However, they didn't write that song. They performed it and did it well but they just don't get the total credit for it.

Jesus Christ.

get over yourself and save the piousness for other places.

[Matthew]

Yep.
They were freaking HUGE and then.....gone virtually overnigth.

Indeed...but their albums sales were declining fast. Journey's popularity peaked in 1981-1983 - and there's no guarantee Journey would would have been "freaking huge" in 1989-1991.

[conversationpc]

Jesus Christ.

get over yourself and save the piousness for other places.

Look...I can overlook all the profanity that goes on here. I'm no holier-than-thou and even slip and curse occasionally. Is it that much of a problem to be a decent human being and respect the name of Jesus? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care for it too much if I were disrespecting the people you care about.

[NoMoreTails]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

This silence (and ROR), not the issue of who is or isn't singing, is the reason Journey hasn't stayed as big as U2, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, etc. This band lost a quarter of its life waiting for Perry.

We can't be sure of that at all. Look what happened to Foreigner, Styx, REO Speedwagon, Chicago...and indeed almost EVERY melodic rock group fell into an abyss when the grunge/alternative scene kicked in.

None of these bands were in the class of grunge survivors I mentioned, there were a few, but the ones that did stayed active during that decade.

Aerosmith has already had a period inb the wilderness back in the late 70s/early 80s...and Bon Jovi...well, their success is beyond my understanding anyway.

I hope Journey doesn't go the same route as Deano has suggested, sellling out with a duet with a hot chick in a different genre.

Perry had a BREAKDOWN. Sure - I wish he was able and willing to slog his guts out on tour for twenty years non-stop...

I don't, I wish they had moved on without him in '84.

[NoMoreTails]

Yep.
They were freaking HUGE and then.....gone virtually overnigth.

Indeed...but their albums sales were declining fast. Journey's popularity peaked in 1981-1983 ....

Duh, thanks to what? Yep,Raised on Radio. Only hardcore Journey fans bought that piece of shit, I was one of them (sorry Joe), good thing for them you couldn't listen before buying back then.

[conversationpc]

Yep.
They were freaking HUGE and then.....gone virtually overnigth.

Indeed...but their albums sales were declining fast. Journey's popularity peaked in 1981-1983 ....

Duh, thanks to what? Yep,Raised on Radio. Only hardcore Journey fans bought that piece of shit, I was one of them (sorry Joe).

Half of that album is classic. The other half is as you said.

[Matthew]

None of these bands were in the class of grunge survivors I mentioned, there were a few, but the ones that did stayed active during that decade.

All I'm saying is that we can't take it for granted that Journey would have survived had they not quit at the top in '87. But yes - the only chance Journey had of following Aerosmith's path in the 1990s rested on Perry being well and committed. He wasn't - and Journey's dependence on him and vulnerability without him was exposed - as it is to this day.

I hope Journey doesn't go the same route as Deano has suggested, sellling out with a duet with a hot chick in a different genre.

It could be argued that Journey 'sold out' in 1978 when they first made a conscious bid for mass-market success. And do you think the recent nostalgia tours are a sign of uncompromising artistic integrity?

If the female singer is good and Journey genuinely respect her then I'm all for it. For me it'll all depend on who they are collaborating with. Journey definitely need a helping hand at the moment...

I don't, I wish they had moved on without him in '84.

Who would you have chosen to take his place, NMT?

[Red13JoePa]

Jesus Christ.

get over yourself and save the piousness for other places.

Look...I can overlook all the profanity that goes on here. I'm no holier-than-thou and even slip and curse occasionally. Is it that much of a problem to be a decent human being and respect the name of Jesus? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care for it too much if I were disrespecting the people you care about.

No, you look.

I roll w/ Jesus, too Dave.


It's a GD figure of speech.

[Matthew]

Yep.
They were freaking HUGE and then.....gone virtually overnigth.

Indeed...but their albums sales were declining fast. Journey's popularity peaked in 1981-1983 ....

Duh, thanks to what? Yep,Raised on Radio. Only hardcore Journey fans bought that piece of shit, I was one of them (sorry Joe), good thing for them you couldn't listen before buying back then.

Well, Frontiers sold two million less than Escape so the downward trend started before ROR in commercial terms....

The three year gap between Frontiers and ROR also contributed to the lower sales Journey achieved in 1986. Three years between albums was a long time in those days. And that break was a group decision.

Plus...."Street Talk" was a huge success during that break...so it's entirely understandable that Perry, Schon and Cain would look to that record (and the shift of almost every AOR act toward an 'electronic' sound) as an indicator of where to go next.

In restrospect maybe they wished they'd stuck to a classic rock sound but back in the mid-80s that style of music was seen as irrelevant and dated by the radio stations and ecord companies....and the public too. It could even be argued that had Journey released an album which sounded like Departure in 1986 they would have had even LESS success than the 2.5 million selling ROR.

[conversationpc]

Jesus Christ.

get over yourself and save the piousness for other places.

Look...I can overlook all the profanity that goes on here. I'm no holier-than-thou and even slip and curse occasionally. Is it that much of a problem to be a decent human being and respect the name of Jesus? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care for it too much if I were disrespecting the people you care about.

No, you look.

I roll w/ Jesus, too Dave.


It's a GD figure of speech.

Jesus is a figure of speech. That's pretty said if it's gotten to that point for you.

[NoMoreTails]

I hope Journey doesn't go the same route as Deano has suggested, sellling out with a duet with a hot chick in a different genre.

[It could be argued that Journey 'sold out' in 1978 when they first made a conscious bid for mass-market success. And do you think the recent nostalgia tours are a sign of uncompromising artistic integrity?.

I do, I think Journey should have committed to the new material and at the very least still have been playing RM,HP and another or two from Arrival, SOG, and three or four from Gens up to the time of Augeri's departure, 1/3 of their set being post Perry. I think they should have shown more artistic integrity and ambition by staying off the road long enough to record a couple more albums along the way.

I don't, I wish they had moved on without him in '84.

[Who would you have chosen to take his place, NMT?

At the time, I didn't know about Chalfont, but Herbie did...or a younger SA by the time Neal says he became aware of Tall Stories. Yeah, they'd have lost some fans in '84 but could have rebuilt it to a great extent, they lost just as many by releasing ROR.

[NealIsGod]

Maybe this personal religious debate should go to PM?

[Red13JoePa]

Jesus Christ.

get over yourself and save the piousness for other places.

Look...I can overlook all the profanity that goes on here. I'm no holier-than-thou and even slip and curse occasionally. Is it that much of a problem to be a decent human being and respect the name of Jesus? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't care for it too much if I were disrespecting the people you care about.

No, you look.

I roll w/ Jesus, too Dave.


It's a GD figure of speech.

Jesus is a figure of speech. That's pretty said if it's gotten to that point for you.

I wrote a post refuting your denial of credit to Schon/Cain for being part of a big hit without Perry and all that strikes you is my language?



What the hell's wrong with you?

[conversationpc]

Maybe this personal religious debate should go to PM?

There's a lot worse that goes on than this, publicly on the forum. It's not even necessarily a religious debate. I just don't care for blasphemy. He used it publicly, so I addressed it publicly. I'll drop it from here on out, though. Additional arguing is moot at this point.

Anyway, I'd much rather discuss how wrong it is to think "Raised on Radio" is a good album or how bad Perry looked with that gay
'stache back in the "Frontiers" days. Can we all agree on that, at least?

[Enigma869]

And why are you so convinced that 1987 wasn't a good time for Journey to take an extended break?

"extended break" is putting it mildly.

You could call it that or you could call it being put in limbo/silence for 10 years (a decade) by perry.

Well, Schon and Cain weren't in limbo. The late 1980s and early 1990s wre the only time they ever enjoyed commercial success without Perry to hold their hands - so there's no need to portray them as passive victims.

Even then, most of their success, in my opinion, was due to "When I See You Smile", which was not written by them. "Price of Love" was a good tune but only a minor hit, in comparison.

Christ almighty.

ANYTHING to deny Schon/Cain credit for that Bad English hit.

Hey...I say good for Neal and Cain having this so-called "hit" with John Waite. I still thought the song sucked! Maybe Waite thought he was somehow making up for not agreeing to record "Open Arms" when Cain brought it to him with The Babys.

John from Boston

[NoMoreTails]

[Hey...I say good for Neal and Cain having this so-called "hit" with John Waite. I still thought the song sucked! Maybe Waite thought he was somehow making up for not agreeing to record "Open Arms" when Cain brought it to him with The Babys.

John from Boston

But Cain and Schon didn't want the song, it was Waite who wanted it, and to use a Diane Warren song on Backlash too.

[Red13JoePa]

Maybe this personal religious debate should go to PM?

He went public with the sanctimonious hooey. He could take a cue from Eric Abita on this inane whining about blasphemy. Eric carries it with more penache and less heavy-handedness.

[Red13JoePa]

[Hey...I say good for Neal and Cain having this so-called "hit" with John Waite. I still thought the song sucked! Maybe Waite thought he was somehow making up for not agreeing to record "Open Arms" when Cain brought it to him with The Babys.

John from Boston

But Cain and Schon didn't want the song, it was Waite who wanted it, and to use a Diane Warren song on Backlash too.

True.

And putting parenthasese around the word hit doesn't change the fact that it was a hit, not that I'm a fan of the song, either.

[conversationpc]

Maybe this personal religious debate should go to PM?

He went public with the sanctimonious hooey. He could take a cue from Eric Abita on this inane whining about blasphemy. Eric carries it with more penache and less heavy-handedness.

I think you mean panache. Since it means "Dash or flamboyance in manner or style", I'm glad to not have the word "flamboyance" associated with me.

[NealIsGod]

[Hey...I say good for Neal and Cain having this so-called "hit" with John Waite. I still thought the song sucked! Maybe Waite thought he was somehow making up for not agreeing to record "Open Arms" when Cain brought it to him with The Babys.

John from Boston

But Cain and Schon didn't want the song, it was Waite who wanted it, and to use a Diane Warren song on Backlash too.

True.

And putting parenthasese around the word hit doesn't change the fact that it was a hit, not that I'm a fan of the song, either.

It's quotes, not parentheses.

[Rockindeano]

There's that Big Ten edumacation for ya.