New Journey Era: Do's and Dont's

[Red13JoePa]

John, you seem like one of those people who thinks their opinion is fact. I agree with you most of the time, but I am sure there are those who don't.

It's fact to my ears, only! And to my ears, Cain sucks, period, end of story!

....bit of an exaggeration . Not saying I want a 15 song setlist w/ Cain fronting, but I enjoy the difference his vocals add....

[yogi]

Every night bring your A game!!
Make 100% sure that Live means LIVE!!!!!

[SF-Dano]

Hey...I'll give you the fact that Walsh was an average singer (but, he still at least had one huge hit with him singing vocals...Can Neal say the same thing?), but if you're putting Schon into the same category as Henley and Frey, you're freakin' STONED or completely tone deaf! Listen...I have no problem with you being a Schon rump shawab, but don't tell me that the guy's voice is comparable to Don Henley! I mean does anyone else on the planet (including Neal, himself) really believe something this idiotic??

Give me one example (song), that showcases the "Great" Don Henley's superb vocal range. There isn't one. The guy has a decent voice and sang some great tunes. Also if you equate vocal ability with having a hit song, as in your reference to Walsh, then it is time for you to put down the Crack Pipe.

[whocares]

Their chances at "A Hit" are better with a female duet.
But for the long-time fans, a duet of Jeff and Friga would be considered a"deep track", a song that wouldn't be considered a radio choice but would be a fave of the bigger fans. make sense?

Sure it does, the next question you have to ask yourself is... Do you want to hear Journey having a hit on the radio again? or just another "deeep track"?

Trouble is, these days, you have to convince Clear Channel that you should be heard on the radio. No one else much matters in the radio industry, since they have such a big huge percentage of the market these days. Heck, they even own/run the concert venues. Eventually if you want to be heard, you have to go through Clear Channel.

[Carlitto H@kk]

Their chances at "A Hit" are better with a female duet.
But for the long-time fans, a duet of Jeff and Friga would be considered a"deep track", a song that wouldn't be considered a radio choice but would be a fave of the bigger fans. make sense?

Sure it does, the next question you have to ask yourself is... Do you want to hear Journey having a hit on the radio again? or just another "deeep track"?

I have nothing against them trying a duet with a female. Hell, why can't 'both' duets mentioned be on the next Journey album? What I hate, and this is a slam on Clear Channel and the rest of the idiotic media giants, is that Journey would probably have to do something like a female duet to get any radio exposure. That pisses me off...
Journey should not have to stoop to anyone

[The_Noble_Cause]

Every night bring your A game!!
Make 100% sure that Live means LIVE!!!!!

What Journey fan could ever have guesed that this (the most basic maxim for self-respecting musicians ) would bear repeating to the likes of Jon Cain & Neal Schon?
Unbelievable.

[Greg]

Their chances at "A Hit" are better with a female duet.
But for the long-time fans, a duet of Jeff and Friga would be considered a"deep track", a song that wouldn't be considered a radio choice but would be a fave of the bigger fans. make sense?

Sure it does, the next question you have to ask yourself is... Do you want to hear Journey having a hit on the radio again? or just another "deeep track"?

I have nothing against them trying a duet with a female. Hell, why can't 'both' duets mentioned be on the next Journey album? What I hate, and this is a slam on Clear Channel and the rest of the idiotic media giants, is that Journey would probably have to do something like a female duet to get any radio exposure. That pisses me off...
Journey should not have to stoop to anyone

Haha...well I'll tell ya, if I had my choice of female lead vocalists who'd do a duet with JSS & Journey, I'd pick Amy Lee of Evanescence. She certainly helped Seether have a hit song (Broken.) Otherwise, Seether sucks royally! I might be impartial, but Journey is a whole heck of alot better band than Seether, and I think that would be an awesome duet! It could also help establish Journey into a heavier genre of rock, something that I believe Journey with JSS wants to be in anyway.

[Enigma869]

Give me one example (song), that showcases the "Great" Don Henley's superb vocal range. There isn't one. The guy has a decent voice and sang some great tunes. Also if you equate vocal ability with having a hit song, as in your reference to Walsh, then it is time for you to put down the Crack Pipe.

Well, if you read my post, I never said anything about Walsh being a great singer. I was merely making the point that the guy has had one hit song in his career, and that's one more than Neal will EVER have! In terms of Henley's range...I'm not vocally trained (perhaps you may be). Clearly Henley doesn't have the range of Perry. That said, I wasn't talking about the highs or the lows the guy can or can't hit. I was making the point that I think Henley's track record (both with and without The Eagles) speaks for itself! If this conversation were really about "range", Cain's name would have never been brought up in the first place. The dude sings an entire song in the same note! Cain is one of the most brilliant song writers that the music world has ever been blessed with, and that's more than enough for me!

John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

Use 1 singer only. 1 SINGER I say!

Not taking advantage of a talent like Deen's would be a huge missed opportunity.
The only drawback to it is, as with "Generations", Deen risks outstaging the lead vocalist.

[Enigma869]

Use 1 singer only. 1 SINGER I say!

Not taking advantage of a talent like Deen's would be a huge missed opportunity.
The only drawback to it is, as with "Generations", Deen risks outstaging the lead vocalist.

I'll give you that...Deen can actually sing, and sing well. I was quite surprised the first time I heard him. I don't think he sounds as much like Perry as many others seem to think. Nonetheless, the guy has a solid set of pipes! The guy kicks ass on Mother/Father!

John from Boston

[ArnelRox]

Give me one example (song), that showcases the "Great" Don Henley's superb vocal range. There isn't one. The guy has a decent voice and sang some great tunes. Also if you equate vocal ability with having a hit song, as in your reference to Walsh, then it is time for you to put down the Crack Pipe.

I totally agree w/u. I'm a HUGE Henley fan. I've seen him live way more times than I've seen Journey actually & can't count them (but I wish he wasn't so nicey-nice on stage these days...I liked his "temper" & antics). He has a great voice but it doesn't even play in the same ball park with Steve Perry's vocal range. Joe Walsh, a great singer, what? Even if I smoked crack, I wouldn't be able to say that.

[Sandman67]

I'll give you that...Deen can actually sing, and sing well. I was quite surprised the first time I heard him. I don't think he sounds as much like Perry as many others seem to think. Nonetheless, the guy has a solid set of pipes! The guy kicks ass on Mother/Father!

I don't see the connection between him and Perry either, nevertheless Deen is a fantastic singer and I would welcome an album with him on lead throughout.

[VH#1]

I don't think he sounds as much like Perry as many others seem to think.

Yep. He may be able to carry a tune. But no - he does not have the same quality a-la Perry.

I'm surprised that he was so shocked whern he first heard Fraugeri sing. Tells me he hadn't really tested his own singing chops at that time...

[ArnelRox]

Don't: Stop comparing every new vocalist to Steve Perry. Don't make the same mistake with Jeff as u did with Steve. Jeff is Jeff. By telling people "this guy is better than Perry" you are setting up every vocalist to fail and also alienating die-hard Perryloons that may have given you a shot otherwise. Say Jeff carries on in the "soul-stirring Journey vocalist tradition", but don't put down Perry.

Oh God yes. No more Perry w/a perm comments please? (Although for Jeff, it might be Perry w/a tan & a perm? Sorry couldn't resist it.)

IMHO comparing Augeri w/Perry w/those types of remarks was the absolute worst thing they did. Journey should NEVER EVER EVER put down Perry in any way. He's a rock God.

[ArnelRox]

Every night bring your A game!!
Make 100% sure that Live means LIVE!!!!!

Well there is no 100% live anymore tho is there? Doesn't every "big" band use pre-recorded backing vocals nowadays?

I saw Hall & Oates last nite (amazing show--3rd row center) & we picked up on the fact that the sax player wasn't 100% live. For at least 1 song, we could hear 2 saxophones but there was only 1 sax player. Maybe we're a bit more sensitive to this after this summer tho. I'm sure no one else noticed. Makes me wonder just how many bands get a little help here & there tho.

FYI: Daryl was, most definitely 100% live. In fact they even started one song & stopped & then did another song. His voice, even tho he's almost 60 yrs old (but does not look a day over 45 & he's sexy as all hell) is still abso-fuckin-lutely amazing.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Journey should NEVER EVER EVER put down Perry in any way. He's a rock God.

Don't agree with that.
He screwed them on many levels.
They should blame him for forcing them to move on without him.

[whocares]

Perry with freckles?

Ok JR, Perry is the band's bread and butter in many ways still, don't bite the hand that feeds you, eh? Also, about the sax player, is it possible that they split the sound to make it harmonize with himself? I mean it may be that they did it either way. As I told you yesterday, I saw them last summer and thoguht they weree great, but never thought about that idea of pre-recorded anythings. Maybe I'm just naive or too trusting anymore though.

[SF-Dano]

Well, if you read my post, I never said anything about Walsh being a great singer. I was merely making the point that the guy has had one hit song in his career, and that's one more than Neal will EVER have! In terms of Henley's range...I'm not vocally trained (perhaps you may be). Clearly Henley doesn't have the range of Perry. That said, I wasn't talking about the highs or the lows the guy can or can't hit. I was making the point that I think Henley's track record (both with and without The Eagles) speaks for itself! If this conversation were really about "range", Cain's name would have never been brought up in the first place. The dude sings an entire song in the same note! Cain is one of the most brilliant song writers that the music world has ever been blessed with, and that's more than enough for me!

I just don't get why the Eagles are always brought up as a group that is allowed to have multiple vocalists. I think they just wrote some good songs, that fit their vocal style. If we can agree that Henley does not have great vocal range, than we are talking about a matter of enjoying a vocalist's style (ie. raspiness, clearity, power, etc.). If this is the case, then it is all a matter of opinion. In my opinion Neal's, Jon's, and Dean's voices are all good enough for Rock and Roll. Obviously this is not your opinion.
As far as hits go, I personally do not judge who or what I like, or how good a tune is, on whether or not it was a hit.

As a side note, and I know I am in the minority on this, I liked the tunes "Every Generation" and the remake of "Self Defense" on Generations. Are they two of my all time favorite Journey songs? No. But they are still enjoyable enough to me.

[Red13JoePa]

Dano, some people will criticize every single solitary thing the band does until the day Perry is back.

[whocares]

someone's gonna be waiting a LONNNNNG time.

[SF-Dano]

True dat, Red. True dat

[ArnelRox]

Dano, some people will criticize every single solitary thing the band does until the day Perry is back.

& if they brought Perry back tomorrow, it still wouldn't make everyone happy b/c then they'd say his voice isn't what it used to be & he can't hit the high notes.

I think the only thing that might make everyone happy is if they had frozen an exact replica/clone of the adult Perry in about oh 1984 & they were now able to resuscitate that creature & put him on stage (of course all done w/the 57 yr old Perry's blessing).

[ArnelRox]

Perry with freckles?

Ok JR, Perry is the band's bread and butter in many ways still, don't bite the hand that feeds you, eh? Also, about the sax player, is it possible that they split the sound to make it harmonize with himself? I mean it may be that they did it either way. As I told you yesterday, I saw them last summer and thoguht they weree great, but never thought about that idea of pre-recorded anythings. Maybe I'm just naive or too trusting anymore though.

Hee hee ok Perry w/a tan, freckles & a perm. OMG where does this end?

Yes, good point, whocares. Maybe they did split the sax. I'm not a musician & I know u do a bit of singing & have knowledge of these things, so ud have a more critical ear for that. Thanks for mentioning that. Definitely nothing else H&O are doing is prerecorded that I could hear tho.

& it was one hell of a show. U gotta love a very sexy almost 60 yr old man who can still sing like that. He has weathered time well let me tell u...yummy man (well that might not interest u whocares...but it's for the other ladies here). Oates, well he's in great shape physically & his voice is the same on the harmonies (fabulous for harmonies, but not strong on its own IMHO) but his face is icky these days (gee I should talk...have I looked in the mirrow lately?). I used to think he was really cute back in the day. Hmm isn't he Puerto Rican (referring back to Jeff's comments about the bias against Puerto Rican/hispanics)? I'm not sure of Oates' heritage but definitely hispanic. But I guess he wasn't considered the "front man" of H&O.

[whocares]

no, sorry, the looks of the guys don't interest me much. I feel the same way about John's voice as you do, great for the harmonies of H & O, but on it's own, it needs some work. I'm no pro, I just had a lot of training and despite drinking and smoking the occasional cigar and maybe a thing or two other, I try to take care of my voice still. As I said, I may be naive about what's being used in concert anymore, but I give people the benefit of the doubt. Heck, the 85 year old guy at the local fish fry uses a 4part harmonizer on his keyboard and mic, so anything is possible I suppose.

[Deb]

Use 1 singer only. 1 SINGER I say!

Not taking advantage of a talent like Deen's would be a huge missed opportunity.
The only drawback to it is, as with "Generations", Deen risks outstaging the lead vocalist.

I agree, would like to see them continue having Deen do a few songs(at least) each concert.

[Enigma869]

I just don't get why the Eagles are always brought up as a group that is allowed to have multiple vocalists. I think they just wrote some good songs, that fit their vocal style. If we can agree that Henley does not have great vocal range, than we are talking about a matter of enjoying a vocalist's style (ie. raspiness, clearity, power, etc.). If this is the case, then it is all a matter of opinion. In my opinion Neal's, Jon's, and Dean's voices are all good enough for Rock and Roll. Obviously this is not your opinion.
As far as hits go, I personally do not judge who or what I like, or how good a tune is, on whether or not it was a hit.

I think The Eagles are probably always brought up because of the standard they set! They've sold more albums than anyone else on the planet...That has to count for something. In addition, Henley, Frey, Walsh, and Timothy B. Schmidt have all sung lead on Eagles songs that have topped the charts. While I do agree with you that a song becoming a "hit" doesn't necessarily mean it's good music (Mariah Carey has had plenty of hits, and I have zero interest!), the fact that a song becomes a hit is certainly a good enough barometer to judge whether or not a particular singer is going to be "accepted" by the public.

John from Boston

[ArnelRox]

While I do agree with you that a song becoming a "hit" doesn't necessarily mean it's good music (Mariah Carey has had plenty of hits, and I have zero interest!), the fact that a song becomes a hit is certainly a good enough barometer to judge whether or not a particular singer is going to be "accepted" by the public.

John from Boston

Geez I dunno John. There've been a lot of "hits" over the yrs that I absolutely hated. Even back in the day when I liked music that was on the radio.

[A Fire Inside]

Replace the official forum moderators w/ people under the age of 60.

And if there's a mod who is chronologically under 60, replace him/her with someone who thinks younger than 60.

There's a mod who is a college student, where have you been?

That's covered under my statement: "And if there's a mod who is chronologically under 60..."

Try looking up the word 'chronologically'.

Thanks, I saw that. I should have added "I don't think she thinks like a 60 year old".

[SF-Dano]

While I do agree with you that a song becoming a "hit" doesn't necessarily mean it's good music (Mariah Carey has had plenty of hits, and I have zero interest!), the fact that a song becomes a hit is certainly a good enough barometer to judge whether or not a particular singer is going to be "accepted" by the public.

Or maybe a song/singer is force fed to us over and over again on the radio and MTV until it becomes a hit. Like the old saying goes " some people will by anything, if it is marketed to them the right way"

I have few friends in their early twenties who although they like Metal Music, will not listen to any of the pioneers of that style simply because it is old. They have been conditioned by the way the music business is today to think that if something is more than a couple years old it is of no value or relevance anymore. Hell I have a neice who thinks this way about her car. It is 3years old and in great shape, but it is just not new and "cool" anymore.

[Granny]

Use 1 singer only. 1 SINGER I say!

Not taking advantage of a talent like Deen's would be a huge missed opportunity.
The only drawback to it is, as with "Generations", Deen risks outstaging the lead vocalist.

TNC--you are absolutely correct! I wouldn't like to se them do a duet with a female singer--just goes against my ears for this bands of males. Deen would be super