OT: Prince on guitar

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Genius can't be validated by how many people are influenced or to what degree. Influence can't even be objectively measured. You may recall that Neal Schon wasn't in the Roling Stones' 100 greatest guitarists despite the multitude of his peers and JOURNEY fans that say he's their inspiration.

I think Prince' genius is incomparable to any other musical artist as his art is diverse beyond anyone. I don't believe it's fair to compare and I wouldn't even begin to do so. Jimi was a great guitarist and had a solid voice but his genius was the guitar alone. You can't take that away from him. Prince' genius is his guitar, voice, production, choreography, lyrics, marketing, packaging, etc., etc. He does it ALL.

Saying that he's not a genius because you don't think his level of influence is up there with The Beatles or whomever may be well-intended but it violates the fundamental definition of genius.

Dude, your fundamental definition of genius is so broad, I can add just about any-fricken-body to that. Just because Prince is multi-talented doesn't make him a genius. How has he changed the face of music? HE HASN'T.

You absolutely can measure genius by influence. If a musician CREATES something new, that hadn't existed before, and it changes the face of music... INFLUENCES IT, and affects how it is created in the future....... that's musical genius.

You want to validate genius by how it influences or changes something. Fine. Have fun! I'm not going to do that.

(jeen'yuhs) gen'ius n. 1, the guiding spirit of a person or place. 2, natural fitness; aptitude; talent; bent. 3, exceptional mental and creative power. 4, a person with such power.

Pretty simple. Nowhere in there does it say that a person has to influence or change something to be a genius.

Prince is a person with exceptional mental and creative powers: a genius. And I argue that he's unlike anything ever seen before him. And we'll probably never see anyone like him in the future.

I don't understand your compulsion to compare his genius with Jimi's or anyone else's. They're incomparable. Jimi's genius was his guitar. Great! Prince's genius is having talent in all areas of art. This is why I think comparing Prince to Chaplin is more accurate.

I think they're about the same height, too

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Neal Schon is not a genius, either. He didn't do anything to CHANGE THE FACE OF MUSIC like Jimi did. To hell with what Rolling Stone says.... their editorial bullshit ceased to be relevant YEARS ago. Or are they the ones that started the whole PRINCE IS A GENIUS thing?

LOL!!!

Knock on Rolling Stone all you want. They've got more credibility than anything you post here!

Neal Schon isn't a genius? Well, not according to your definition of genius.

Let's see. Santana I think is considered a genius and so is Clapton. BOTH of them wanted Neal to join their bands when he was 15. This fact including Neal's body of work tells me that he's pretty much a genius.

So Neal's NOT a genius because he didn't change the face of music like Jimi did? I think that's a pretty screwy way of looking at things. It also is entirely unfair to both Neal and Jimi.

So who in the world will EVER change the face of music like Jimi did? It'll NEVER happen again! So does this mean that NO ONE will EVER be considered a genius? Come on!

Jimi was a black artist during a racially and politically charged era unlike there ever was and will ever be again. His guitar was his voice and people found solace in it. He became the voice of a generation. It was a unique time and Jimi was a talent and voice of those times. I would venture to say that if Jimi were alive today and just starting out his guitar would NOT be heard. This generation of kids is NOT interested in guitar voices. However today's Jimi would probably recognize that and be finding some other way to express himself. Because of GENIUS.

As I see it Neal is a genius. His guitar is his voice. Good thing, too. You ever hear him talk? He's hardly intelligible! Nothing wrong with that - I actually enjoy his interviews but the reality is that he speaks through his guitar better than through his mouth! I think why Neal is overlooked is because he's a TEAM player. He's played a supporting role almost his entire career. His guitar - while it takes the spotlight at times - is more the foundation for a greater good. His guitar is the base for every song he plays on and it graciously shares the spotlight with the other instruments and vocals. His guitar is like a conductor of a magnificent orchestra. Every chord and note that Neal strikes on his guitar is like a wave of a conductor's wand.

THAT'S the genius of Neal.

Neal's genius doesn't get attention because he's not in the spotlight. It takes a discriminating eye and a discerning ear to recognize his genius. it doesn't take mush to recognize Perry's. He's directly in the spotlight. Neal's genius is found in places where you have to look and listen.

Neal's genius ABOUNDS. You just have to know where to look and listen.

[itsjustme]

Or are they the ones that started the whole PRINCE IS A GENIUS thing?

Lol, I'm the one that started the "PRINCE IS A GENIUS thing" (in this thread anyway.), so yell at me if you want.

If you don't get it, that's cool

Not sure it's something you can explain.




.

[Granny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXAsuxDiLso&mode=related&search

WOW- why didn't Soul Sirkus make it. ? They are awesome. JSS can really sing and NEAL IS GOD!

[Granny]

Neal Schon is not a genius, either. He didn't do anything to CHANGE THE FACE OF MUSIC like Jimi did. To hell with what Rolling Stone says.... their editorial bullshit ceased to be relevant YEARS ago. Or are they the ones that started the whole PRINCE IS A GENIUS thing?

LOL!!!

Knock on Rolling Stone all you want. They've got more credibility than anything you post here!

Neal Schon isn't a genius? Well, not according to your definition of genius.

Let's see. Santana I think is considered a genius and so is Clapton. BOTH of them wanted Neal to join their bands when he was 15. This fact including Neal's body of work tells me that he's pretty much a genius.

So Neal's NOT a genius because he didn't change the face of music like Jimi did? I think that's a pretty screwy way of looking at things. It also is entirely unfair to both Neal and Jimi.

So who in the world will EVER change the face of music like Jimi did? It'll NEVER happen again! So does this mean that NO ONE will EVER be considered a genius? Come on!

Jimi was a black artist during a racially and politically charged era unlike there ever was and will ever be again. His guitar was his voice and people found solace in it. He became the voice of a generation. It was a unique time and Jimi was a talent and voice of those times. I would venture to say that if Jimi were alive today and just starting out his guitar would NOT be heard. This generation of kids is NOT interested in guitar voices. However today's Jimi would probably recognize that and be finding some other way to express himself. Because of GENIUS.

As I see it Neal is a genius. His guitar is his voice. Good thing, too. You ever hear him talk? He's hardly intelligible! Nothing wrong with that - I actually enjoy his interviews but the reality is that he speaks through his guitar better than through his mouth! I think why Neal is overlooked is because he's a TEAM player. He's played a supporting role almost his entire career. His guitar - while it takes the spotlight at times - is more the foundation for a greater good. His guitar is the base for every song he plays on and it graciously shares the spotlight with the other instruments and vocals. His guitar is like a conductor of a magnificent orchestra. Every chord and note that Neal strikes on his guitar is like a wave of a conductor's wand.

THAT'S the genius of Neal.

Neal's genius doesn't get attention because he's not in the spotlight. It takes a discriminating eye and a discerning ear to recognize his genius. it doesn't take mush to recognize Perry's. He's directly in the spotlight. Neal's genius is found in places where you have to look and listen.

Neal's genius ABOUNDS. You just have to know where to look and listen.

I wish I could write as beautifully as you do! You express yourself so that everyone can understand exactly what you mean ,aside from the fact that I agree with everything you just said and said so well. Thank you.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

I wish I could write as beautifully as you do! You express yourself so that everyone can understand exactly what you mean ,aside from the fact that I agree with everything you just said and said so well. Thank you.

I don't know about any beauty in what I write but thanks for seeing it!

I've always thought Neal to be a genius. When he released Beyond The Thunder I thought that it would eliminate all doubt. I guess there are still people out there that just don't "get" his genius.

[Carlitto H@kk]

You want to validate genius by how it influences or changes something. Fine. Have fun! I'm not going to do that.

(jeen'yuhs) gen'ius n. 1, the guiding spirit of a person or place. 2, natural fitness; aptitude; talent; bent. 3, exceptional mental and creative power. 4, a person with such power.

Pretty simple. Nowhere in there does it say that a person has to influence or change something to be a genius.

Prince is a person with exceptional mental and creative powers: a genius. And I argue that he's unlike anything ever seen before him. And we'll probably never see anyone like him in the future.

I don't understand your compulsion to compare his genius with Jimi's or anyone else's. They're incomparable. Jimi's genius was his guitar. Great! Prince's genius is having talent in all areas of art. This is why I think comparing Prince to Chaplin is more accurate.

I think they're about the same height, too

Wyngz,
As much as I love to argue with you, I also LOVE IT when you post shit like this...
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON
And I agree... Prince is a Genius, been following him since PurpRain came out...

[itsjustme]

You want to validate genius by how it influences or changes something. Fine. Have fun! I'm not going to do that.

(jeen'yuhs) gen'ius n. 1, the guiding spirit of a person or place. 2, natural fitness; aptitude; talent; bent. 3, exceptional mental and creative power. 4, a person with such power.

Pretty simple. Nowhere in there does it say that a person has to influence or change something to be a genius.

Prince is a person with exceptional mental and creative powers: a genius. And I argue that he's unlike anything ever seen before him. And we'll probably never see anyone like him in the future.

I don't understand your compulsion to compare his genius with Jimi's or anyone else's. They're incomparable. Jimi's genius was his guitar. Great! Prince's genius is having talent in all areas of art. This is why I think comparing Prince to Chaplin is more accurate.

I think they're about the same height, too

Wyngz,
As much as I love to argue with you, I also LOVE IT when you post shit like this...
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON
And I agree... Prince is a Genius, been following him since PurpRain came out...

That is spot on. I thought explaining why he's a genius would be impossibly hard without writing a book, but you do a pretty great job!

[Wheels Of Fyre]

You want to validate genius by how it influences or changes something. Fine. Have fun! I'm not going to do that.

(jeen'yuhs) gen'ius n. 1, the guiding spirit of a person or place. 2, natural fitness; aptitude; talent; bent. 3, exceptional mental and creative power. 4, a person with such power.

Pretty simple. Nowhere in there does it say that a person has to influence or change something to be a genius.

Prince is a person with exceptional mental and creative powers: a genius. And I argue that he's unlike anything ever seen before him. And we'll probably never see anyone like him in the future.

I don't understand your compulsion to compare his genius with Jimi's or anyone else's. They're incomparable. Jimi's genius was his guitar. Great! Prince's genius is having talent in all areas of art. This is why I think comparing Prince to Chaplin is more accurate.

I think they're about the same height, too

Wyngz,
As much as I love to argue with you, I also LOVE IT when you post shit like this...
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON
And I agree... Prince is a Genius, been following him since PurpRain came out...

PURPLE RAIN!!! DAMN!!! If THAT doesn't say GENIUS I don't know what does.

If you want to be a tight-assed cynic that movie may come across as somewhat dated today. Ok, fine. It's not a timeless classic in the typical sense.

BUT

It displays Prince's Chaplinesque genius in that he was THE heart and soul behind nearly every aspect of that movie.

Sure. His acting is a little on the cheesey side - I'm reminded of some ELVIS movies - but you can't deny the sheer entertainment of that movie. If you can't watch that movie and be entertained then you're a truly sad and miserable person.

I especially like how he pours his guts out vocally on the title track.

BTW: For a long time I've been meaning to thank you for your service to this country. I thought I've seen where you've mentioned it before...?

[Carlitto H@kk]

BTW: For a long time I've been meaning to thank you for your service to this country. I thought I've seen where you've mentioned it before...?

No need for Thanks...
Its just a job...

BTW, my fave Prince album has got to be "Sign O the Times"...

What's your take on that one?

[The Cimmerian]

FyreWyngz:

For the first time, I've been moved to go to the dictionary and look up the word GENIUS. In my mind, I had made the incorrect assumption that very few mortals are truly capable of being called GENIUS. In other words, I thought that for someone to be a GENIUS, he had to do something pretty damn influential and important in the world. Like ALBERT EINSTEIN, for example. Or like JIMI HENDRIX.

I was wrong. When I read the actual definition of GENIUS, I realized that you are in the right to state your opinion that Prince is a genius. By the dictionary definition, you are technically and basically correct to state that. You, and all the Rolling Stone writers (WHO ARE CLEARLY BETTER THAN I AM), can go on saying PRINCE IS A GENIUS, and you are all technically correct to do that.

Now let me state my opinion: I DON'T BELIEVE PRINCE IS A GENIUS.

Despite what the dictionary says, I reserve the word GENIUS for a select few. For people who have actually done something groundbreaking. For people who have changed the world. For those who were pioneers. I am obviously more strict in my use of the word.

I don't believe Prince is a genius because he has never done anything groundbreaking. He has not changed the world. He is not a musical pioneer.

Now, let me state another opinion: JIMI HENDRIX IS/WAS A GENIUS. I'll tell you why:

Jimi's career was groundbreaking. He has changed the world. He is a musical pioneer.

That's why I keep bringing up JIMI HENDRIX. Let's face it: Jimi Hendrix WAS Prince, before there was a Prince. Prince has done NOTHING that Jimi didn't do back in the late 60s. You keep saying Jimi's only genius is his GUITAR. Dude, Jimi's GUITAR WAS ONLY ONE PART OF HIS GENIUS. He wrote, performed, produced, mastered, designed, created... he did it all, just like Prince. You keep saying only Prince has done it all. Well, he's not the only one.

But, I digress. I should just agree to disagree with you. You say that PRINCE IS A GENIUS, and you obviously will continue saying that. And so will ROLLING STONE magazine, despite their lack of relevence in today's society. I say that PRINCE IS NOT A GENIUS. I can back up why, but it's obvious we will never agree. So be it.

[The Cimmerian]

PURPLE RAIN!!! DAMN!!! If THAT doesn't say GENIUS I don't know what does.

If you want to be a tight-assed cynic that movie may come across as somewhat dated today. Ok, fine. It's not a timeless classic in the typical sense.

BUT

It displays Prince's Chaplinesque genius in that he was THE heart and soul behind nearly every aspect of that movie.

Sure. His acting is a little on the cheesey side - I'm reminded of some ELVIS movies - but you can't deny the sheer entertainment of that movie. If you can't watch that movie and be entertained then you're a truly sad and miserable person.

I especially like how he pours his guts out vocally on the title track.

BTW: For a long time I've been meaning to thank you for your service to this country. I thought I've seen where you've mentioned it before...?

I'll concede that PURPLE RAIN is a cool movie. I saw it back in '84 in the theater. Even though Prince didn't direct it.

But... how would you explain the mess that is UNDER THE CHERRY MOON? Which Prince DID direct? Where was his genius then? When he was BEHIND THE CAMERA?

He's no Chaplin. Chaplin never made a turkey like UNDER THE CHERRY MOON.

[fredinator]

Gad, you all are awesome... What a fantastic debate--so insightful! Thanks for sharing your views about these wonderful artists--to me you both win the argument...

Nancy

[JrnySuxBalls]

WOW- why didn't Soul Sirkus make it. ?

They weren't allowed to, that's the problem I still have with Grandpa

And Prince IS a genius, for sure. The jehovah's witness thing was a jump the shark moment,
but the man is gifted.

[Matthew]

Prince is THE ARTIST. He does it ALL. Prince is to music what Chaplin was to film. Chaplin wrote, produced, and directed all of his major works and even created the scores but Prince has taken "genius" to a level that rivals all artists before him and will unlikely ever be matched or seen again.

Uh... whatever.

Sure, Prince is a talented performer, writer, singer, guitarist, arranger, producer, and packager. He's miles ahead of a lot of other musicians, to be sure. But he is not the END ALL, BE ALL of music. I mean, COME ON!!!

I think what it is, is that it is "cool" to say that Prince is cool. I'm sure half the people that say that have no idea why they say it, only that's it's cool to say it, and that they think they're part of the IN CROWD by saying it.

I say, if Prince is the END ALL, BE ALL, then prove it. Exactly WHAT is it that makes him genius? How has his music transcended all music styles, and influenced future music? How has his guitar playing changed the playing field like Eddie Van Halen, or Jimi Hendrix?

It's not sales. There are many other musicians/groups that have outsold Prince. Michael Jackson has sold more records than Prince.

I personally feel that Jimi Hendrix, back in the 60's, in three measly years, achieved all that Prince has done, and SO MUCH MORE. In terms of influence, his devisive changing of Rock Guitar.... I mean, Jimi has earned his place in the gallery of greats.

The Beatles, as well. Their influence has markedly changed Rock Music. They are definitely in the gallery of greats.

But both the Beatles and Jimi have done A HELL OF A LOT MORE to change music than Prince has.

So, all you people... I concede Prince is a great all around musician, but what EXACTLY makes him a genius?

Great post. My thoughts exactly.

[Matthew]

(jeen'yuhs) gen'ius n. 1, the guiding spirit of a person or place. 2, natural fitness; aptitude; talent; bent. 3, exceptional mental and creative power. 4, a person with such power.

Pretty simple. Nowhere in there does it say that a person has to influence or change something to be a genius.

It doesn't in the definition you quote here (although "guiding spirit" can be interpreted as "influence")...but in other dictionaries - such as The Free Online Dictionary - there is this definition:

"5. A person who has great influence over another."

Prince is a person with exceptional mental...powers

Can you provide any examples of Prince's intellectual life?

And I argue that he's unlike anything ever seen before him.

It could be argued that he 'borrowed' a lot from Jimi Hendrix, George Clinton and James Brown.

I don't understand your compulsion to compare his genius with Jimi's or anyone else's.

Hendrix was unquestionably an extraordinary and wildly innovative guitarist. I haven't see ANYTHING in Prince's repetoire that suggests that Prince has anywhere near the same ability as Hendrix.

In order to judge a new generation of "geniuses" you have to compare them with the pioneers of the past who set the standards in the first place.

Hendrix set those standards for the electric guitar - and very few musicians have reached those standards, if any. Prince certainly wasn't one of them.

Prince's genius is having talent in all areas of art. This is why I think comparing Prince to Chaplin is more accurate.

Yes, Prince was an extraordinary talent within the context of the pop charts of the 1980s.

But what evidence is there that Prince was extraordinarily talented "in all areas of art"?

"Purple Rain" was not the work of a "genius" filmmaker or actor. You might find it entertaining in a cheesy, nostalgic way - but come on...even the most hardened Prince fanatic can recognise that movies were not where Prince's talents lay.

Is Prince a "genius" painter? Or a novelist?

I think they're about the same height, too

Yes - they were both extraordinarily small.

[JrnySuxBalls]

Yes, Prince was an extraordinary talent within the context of the pop charts of the 1980s.

Alot more to him than just that. Like there's more to JRNY than just "Open Arms".

[Matthew]

Yes, Prince was an extraordinary talent within the context of the pop charts of the 1980s.

Alot more to him than just that. Like there's more to JRNY than just "Open Arms".

I wasn't using just one song to illustrate Prince's career.

But yes - there's more to it than that - but you still have to judge an artist against others in their chosen field. Compare Prince to any major pop act in that era and he seems extraodinary. In all the other areas being mentioned (from guitarists to actors) I'd argue he isn't extraordinary.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

BTW: For a long time I've been meaning to thank you for your service to this country. I thought I've seen where you've mentioned it before...?

No need for Thanks...
Its just a job...

BTW, my fave Prince album has got to be "Sign O the Times"...

What's your take on that one?

I'm embarrassed to say that I don't own it and have only heard cuts through friends at parties, etc. So many people believe this to be his most compelling work. I couldn't argue with that.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

Now let me state my opinion: I DON'T BELIEVE PRINCE IS A GENIUS.

Despite what the dictionary says, I reserve the word GENIUS for a select few. For people who have actually done something groundbreaking. For people who have changed the world. For those who were pioneers. I am obviously more strict in my use of the word.

I don't believe Prince is a genius because he has never done anything groundbreaking. He has not changed the world. He is not a musical pioneer.

Now, let me state another opinion: JIMI HENDRIX IS/WAS A GENIUS. I'll tell you why:

Jimi's career was groundbreaking. He has changed the world. He is a musical pioneer.

That's why I keep bringing up JIMI HENDRIX. Let's face it: Jimi Hendrix WAS Prince, before there was a Prince. Prince has done NOTHING that Jimi didn't do back in the late 60s. You keep saying Jimi's only genius is his GUITAR. Dude, Jimi's GUITAR WAS ONLY ONE PART OF HIS GENIUS. He wrote, performed, produced, mastered, designed, created... he did it all, just like Prince. You keep saying only Prince has done it all. Well, he's not the only one.

But, I digress. I should just agree to disagree with you. You say that PRINCE IS A GENIUS, and you obviously will continue saying that. And so will ROLLING STONE magazine, despite their lack of relevence in today's society. I say that PRINCE IS NOT A GENIUS. I can back up why, but it's obvious we will never agree. So be it.

LOL! No problem! You've got a different set of measure.

I think though, that you have to consider who Jimi's influences were. You're an obviously HUGE fan of Jimi so I'm sure you know who they were. Jimi wasn't born of himself. He had his influences just like Prince has his. JSS shares Sam Cooke with SP. Sam Cooke was influenced by artists, too in particular his band mates from the Soul Stirrers.

You comment that Jimi did more than play guitar. I recognize that however he's really only known for that. Prince is known for much more. That doesn't mean that Prince's genius is "better" than Jimi's.

I'm not here to compare Prince to Jimi or say that Prince is some kind of end all. I'm here to say that Prince has his merits and they're unlike anyone before him and will probably never be seen again. Same holds true with Jimi. They both hold a major place in music history and it's because of their genius.

[Wheels Of Fyre]

PURPLE RAIN!!! DAMN!!! If THAT doesn't say GENIUS I don't know what does.

If you want to be a tight-assed cynic that movie may come across as somewhat dated today. Ok, fine. It's not a timeless classic in the typical sense.

BUT

It displays Prince's Chaplinesque genius in that he was THE heart and soul behind nearly every aspect of that movie.

Sure. His acting is a little on the cheesey side - I'm reminded of some ELVIS movies - but you can't deny the sheer entertainment of that movie. If you can't watch that movie and be entertained then you're a truly sad and miserable person.

I especially like how he pours his guts out vocally on the title track.

BTW: For a long time I've been meaning to thank you for your service to this country. I thought I've seen where you've mentioned it before...?

I'll concede that PURPLE RAIN is a cool movie. I saw it back in '84 in the theater. Even though Prince didn't direct it.

But... how would you explain the mess that is UNDER THE CHERRY MOON? Which Prince DID direct? Where was his genius then? When he was BEHIND THE CAMERA?

He's no Chaplin. Chaplin never made a turkey like UNDER THE CHERRY MOON.

Nobody's perfect...?

I'm a big fan of Chaplin and so that's why I see the comparison between him and Prince. BTW many years ago I saw a Jackie Chan movie for the first time and I immediately saw a hint of Chaplin in his work. Turns out that Jackie is a huge Chaplin fan. I like watching his movies to see if I can find Chaplin moments.

As for Chaplin never making a major turkey many would say that his last movie "A Countess from Hong Kong" was a turkey burnt to a crisp. Also, his "Limelight", "A King In New York" and "Monsieur Verdoux" aren't ranked very highly.

Interestingly, Chaplin felt that his greatest movie was "Gold Rush". When it was re-worked in 1942 (I think) he added a narration to it in which he told the story along with the action of the movie - kind of like the way DVD's have those director and actor commentaries. Anyway, he also cut out the kiss with Georgia Hale in the final scene. I think the narration he added to the movie was an attempt to appease audiences who were into "talkies" but the kiss scene is curious. It may have been because of spite towards Lita Grey that the kiss scene was filmed to begin with. He may have left it in just to jab at her and later thought better to remove it in respect to his wife Oona. Who knows? In any case, Chaplin was a perfectionist and always said that he had a story within him that no matter how hard he tried he could never tell it "right."

[Jeremey fan forever]

Well, I don't know if he is a genius or not, but I do know that MOST of his songs are unlistenable to me. Of course he has written a few good ones that were performed by other artists. His personal catelogue doesn't get me excited. As for the guitar, well, if this wasn't the home of Neal lovers, I wouldn't be surprised by such a comment, but common! His playing has a LOT of room for growth, don't you think? He doesn't impress me much at all. His strongest suit I would have to say is song writing. The singing, and playing ain't that hot.

[brywool]

Prince IS a genius.

He's a quirky dude. Arrogant as hell. But a musical genius.

[junky]

Prince's style of music is not for everyone, but to say he hasn't had any influence is wrong.

The biggest producers of 80's RnB from Jam & Lewis to Babyface give Prince as their influences. He was the first to use synths and drum machines in RnB which later became the norm, ie ROR.

JSS states Prince as an influence.

Only a few weeks ago, Justin Timberlake stated that Prince was a huge influence on his current album.

RnB may not be a popular genre on this board, but it is relevent.

Oh and Prince spoke out against corruption of major labels performing with the word SLAVE written on his cheek:

[JrnySuxBalls]

Yes, Prince was an extraordinary talent within the context of the pop charts of the 1980s.

Alot more to him than just that. Like there's more to JRNY than just "Open Arms".

I wasn't using just one song to illustrate Prince's career.

But yes - there's more to it than that - but you still have to judge an artist against others in their chosen field. Compare Prince to any major pop act in that era and he seems extraodinary. In all the other areas being mentioned (from guitarists to actors) I'd argue he isn't extraordinary.

Actors no. Guitarists yes.

[Matthew]

Prince's style of music is not for everyone, but to say he hasn't had any influence is wrong.

He was the first to use synths and drum machines in RnB which later became the norm, ie ROR.

Yes, Prince did start using drum machines in 1980 or so. But Gorgio Moroder was using them as early as 1977 for Donna Summer - and many hip-hop/r n b acts were inspired by Kraftwerk who were using drum machines as early as 1973.

I don't think ROR owes anything to Prince - Perry was influenced by 60s RnB - and plus almost every band was using drum technology in 1986 regardless of the genre - and let's not forget that Journey primarily used a real session drummer - Larry Londin - on that record.

But I totally agree that Prince has influenced modern r n b - which would support the claim that he was a possibly a genius in his chosen field - pop/r nb - but it doesn't support the claim that he was a genius outside
that genre of music.

[junky]

Prince's style of music is not for everyone, but to say he hasn't had any influence is wrong.

He was the first to use synths and drum machines in RnB which later became the norm, ie ROR.

Yes, Prince did start using drum machines in 1980 or so. But Gorgio Moroder was using them as early as 1977 for Donna Summer - and many hip-hop/r n b acts were inspired by Kraftwerk who were using drum machines as early as 1973.

Yes Giorgio Moroder started using drum machines back in 1975, but he was known more for his influence of club / Techno and film.

Of course Kraftwerk were known for their electronic beats and made their own machines which no one could copy, but they never used them in RnB.

Hip hop was later inspired by Kraftwerk, but really came about by using two of the same record; ie: Queen, Blondie, Chic and tape to repeat the beats over and over.

I don't think ROR owes anything to Prince - Perry was influenced by 60s RnB - and plus almost every band was using drum technology in 1986 regardless of the genre - and let's not forget that Journey primarily used a real session drummer - Larry Londin - on that record.

I didn't mean to imply that ROR was directly inspired by Prince, but he was an influence in the sound Perry was going for.

But I totally agree that Prince has influenced modern r n b - which would support the claim that he was a possibly a genius in his chosen field - pop/r nb - but it doesn't support the claim that he was a genius outside
that genre of music.

Agreed, but it was mentioned ealier in this thread that Prince had no musical influence whatsoever, when he clearly has.

[The Cimmerian]

Agreed, but it was mentioned ealier in this thread that Prince had no musical influence whatsoever, when he clearly has.

I, in my postings, never said that Prince had no musical influence. You must be talking of about someone else's posts.

It's obvious the Minneapolis music scene owes much to his presence. And as others stated, he jump-started his own branch of RnB through the artists he helped get signed/recorded: THE TIME, VANITY, APPOLONIA, JESSE JOHNSON, MORRIS DAY, SHEILA E, WENDY & LISA, and others. Their music was very colored by his production style, and his music... and is propogated today by others (JIMMY JAM / TERRY LEWIS, as someone else pointed out).

I acknowledge that he's very talented... he can play many instruments, he produces, writes, designs... and so forth.

I just think the whole notion of him being known as a genius has gotten blown out of proportion. It's propogated a myth about him... and it's become "cool" for people to call him a genius without those people ever having heard the totality of his music, or even understanding why. It's a very real thing ... to blindly follow his cult of personality, and it bothers me for some reason. I never really understood why it bothered me before taking part in this thread. Part of it has to be his intense need for privacy... his penchant for not giving many interviews... he is the Willie Wonka of our generation. Then again, Michael Jackson meets those parameters, too.