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[Deb]

Matthew, though we haven't agreed on everything we've discussed, there's too much sense in your posts for you to be on the same page as these long time Perryheads on this board. Fundamentally, they believe Journey had no right to carry on without the object of their worship, regardless of whether Perry really intended to return or not and they believe the band are nothing as musicians without Perry there to direct their every move, this is not an exaggeration. Yes, he told Neal and Jon what to play and when, in their opinion. I would be absolutely shocked in any support they show of JSS and Journey is sincere. I know I'm lumping them all into the same category, but its been hard to tell one's post from the others over the last couple of years. But I'll that OhSherry has at least supported her views with some reasoning as opposed to HOTS and the others.

There are extremists on all 3 ends of this discussion (Augeri, Perry, JSS).

[Matthew]

Matthew, though we haven't agreed on everything we've discussed, there's too much sense in your posts for you to be on the same page as these long time Perryheads on this board. Fundamentally, they believe Journey had no right to carry on without the object of their worship, regardless of whether Perry really intended to return or not and they believe the band are nothing as musicians without Perry there to direct their every move, this is not an exaggeration. Yes, he told Neal and Jon what to play and when, in their opinion. I would be absolutely shocked in any support they show of JSS and Journey is sincere.

NMT - thanks for your post. I'm much more reasonable and open-minded than I used to be - ever since Augeri left the band, I guess.

But before that I was a regular on Perryville...I spent far too much time arguing with the evangelical Augeri fans who had deviously taken over the Steve Perry Group on Yahoo....I got banned by BT after only two days....and so on...you get the picture. So I have my own history of Loonish behaviour.

Did I believe that Journey shouldn't have carried on without Perry? Absolutely.

Having said that I couldn't resist buying the albums or seeing the band earlier this year in concert - but to be honest this only fed my self-righteousness about what an idiotic decision Journey had made.

Perhaps what's different with me though is that I'm also a huge fan of Schon...and I would have felt the same way had Journey continued without him.

But do I believe that Sherrie and other long-time Perryheads are capable of suddenly being open-minded about JSS? Well, I don't know any of them well enough - but speaking for myself - and reading what many Perry die-hards are saying in other forums - JSS has made a difference to the way we see the band.

I'm not saying I'm totally convinced - but I've bought tickets for the show next year and I'll buy the new album if they record one. Even if I think Journey have made a mistake with JSS at the very least I'll be able to respect them again.

NMT - how would you have felt had history turned out differently and Perry had carried on with Journey...without Schon....and not only that...had fired Schon and hired an inferior replacement on the grounds that he would create an illusion that Schon was still in the band...and THEN...as if that wasn't creepy and ruthless enough....you had to listen to Journey fans say that the new guy was just as good as Schon...when he clearly wasn't ...and that Schon didn't really matter anyway...and he was a prick and good riddance? I suspect you would have been irritated to death.

But if Perry had hired a guitarist who had his own distinctive style...who represented a move away from the "Schon era' ....well, as a Schon fan it would be much easier to live with, wouldn't it?

So I guess what I'm saying it that I don't actually believe it is Loonish to have hated the last eight years of the band's history and to have given Augeri Heads a tough time of it. It seems entirely sensible and understandable to me.

[ohsherrie]

Matthew, though we haven't agreed on everything we've discussed, there's too much sense in your posts for you to be on the same page as these long time Perryheads on this board. Fundamentally, they believe Journey had no right to carry on without the object of their worship, regardless of whether Perry really intended to return or not and they believe the band are nothing as musicians without Perry there to direct their every move, this is not an exaggeration. Yes, he told Neal and Jon what to play and when, in their opinion. I would be absolutely shocked in any support they show of JSS and Journey is sincere.

Maybe the reason you feel that way NMT is because you've always just written us off as Perryheads who couldn't possibly have anything valuable to say, rather than actually reading what we as individuals actually say. Why do you find it so impossible to believe that some of us could possibly think going forward with a vocalist and performer of Jeff's caliber is a much better idea than trying to continue to capitalize on the Perry sound with a weak substitute? I've never called Perry a God or worshipped him anymore than a lot of people have done so with Neal or even Augeri. I explained how I feel about it in my previous post, but I guess others are more qualified to say how I really feel, than I am?

Where Journey as a musical entity was concerned it was never just about them going on without Perry for me. I didn't think they should have done it because I wanted the Journey legacy of musical excellence to stay intact. Anyone who ever really read what I was saying would know that. I thought they needed Perry to do that(and I still think his part in that legacy should be respected and protected). After seeing the Free Per View with Augeri I didn't think that was possible with him, and as it turns out I was right. Now if they can regain some credibility with Jeff that's just fine with me.

I think the people who are trying to continue old messageboard related resentment over things that were said 4 or 5 years ago are having a much harder time letting go of the past than the Perry fans ever did. Some of us would love to move on with Journey while maintaining our respect for Perry, if we were allowed to do so.

[Enigma869]

Taken from an interview here on MR with Deen. Think he is a pretty big fan of Perry's too. He is so humble.........just love this guy!

Amen! Did you catch up with Steve Perry at the Walk Of Fame event?

You know, I shook his hand and said 'nice to meet you', I was just in awe. I turned the corner and my heart skipped – it was like, Oh My God, he's here!
To me that was the highlight of the event – to get to see my idol.
That was the coolest thing. To have him show up dude, it would not have been as special without him. I was praying he would be there.
I don't have any right to be there – I don't have anything to do with that legacy, but he needed to be there.

Did you have any time to chat at all?

Just an introduction and that was it…the rest of the time I was just staring at him. I'm a fan just like anyone else. It was freaking me out - the coolest thing ever.

Great quotes from Deen. Thanks for posting. I always liked Deen (even before I knew the guy could actually sing). He has always come across as a good and humble guy, and it's hard not to like someone with those traits. I never realized he was that big of a Perry fan. I would think drummers would have other drummers as their "idols" and not vocalists. Who knows...perhaps that's why so many people think Deen sounds a bit like Perry.

I also found it VERY refreshing that Deen mentioned he didn't have any right to be at the WOF and recognize he didn't have anything to do with the Journey legacy. When I mentioned over on BT that I didn't believe Augeri or Castronovo should ever be on the same stage with Journey if they ever got into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (which will NEVER happen!), I was lambasted by all the wiggle weirdos! I honestly wasn't trying to put Augeri or Castronovo down, as I like both guys. I was simply making the point that neither one of these guys has ANYTHING to do with the legacy of Journey. That legacy was established long before either of these guys became part of the band. I just never thought it would seem right to have two guys recognized for what would essentially be a "lifetime achievement" award for work that neither guy had anything to do with.

John from Boston

[Ms_M]

Great quotes from Deen! I liked him from the first time I saw him on the Bad English video where he introduces "Forget Me Not". He seemed down-to-earth even then!! The fact that he could sing.... Icing on the cake.

[A Fire Inside]

I also found it VERY refreshing that Deen mentioned he didn't have any right to be at the WOF and recognize he didn't have anything to do with the Journey legacy. When I mentioned over on BT that I didn't believe Augeri or Castronovo should ever be on the same stage with Journey if they ever got into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (which will NEVER happen!), I was lambasted by all the wiggle weirdos! I honestly wasn't trying to put Augeri or Castronovo down, as I like both guys. I was simply making the point that neither one of these guys has ANYTHING to do with the legacy of Journey. That legacy was established long before either of these guys became part of the band. I just never thought it would seem right to have two guys recognized for what would essentially be a "lifetime achievement" award for work that neither guy had anything to do with.

Out of curiosity, would you/did you support Tickner, Prince, or Fleischman accepting awards at the WOF or the HOF?

[Blueskies]

Perry, Neal, Cain, Ross and Smitty are the legacy of Journey imo, but I'm sure they would want everyone ever involved in part of the band to be there, too.

[Deb]

Great quotes from Deen! I liked him from the first time I saw him on the Bad English video where he introduces "Forget Me Not". He seemed down-to-earth even then!! The fact that he could sing.... Icing on the cake.

I have that too........too cute.....he has this 'little kid' zest about him.

[yak]

I think the people who are trying to continue old messageboard related resentment over things that were said 4 or 5 years ago are having a much harder time letting go of the past than the Perry fans ever did. Some of us would love to move on with Journey while maintaining our respect for Perry, if we were allowed to do so.

October 2005 was not 4 to 5 years ago. Is your memory still selective?

Oh yeah, some of us can't let go of the past. That's why we've been to countless Journey concerts. How many have you been to? Who still thinks there's no Journey without Perry? Who was salivating at the thought of Tapegate ending everything

The "resentment" you speak of is not resentment at all. It's all based on facts of how you said one thing on your private board, and then would go out into public cyberspace (including MR) and kiss ass to the very people (Andrew included) you had just gotten through trashing on your private board. You even bragged to your gal pals how you were playing people at MR. Your hypocrisy knows no end.

"I had nothing against Augeri at all until I saw the Free Per View and then I just thought he proved that I was right about Journey making a mistake in trying it without Perry."

You made this falacious quote earlier in this thread. It's a fact that you and your Loon friends despised Augeri from the get-go.

Above all though...why do you care so much about her posts?

Because her posts are full of lies, and she purposefully misrepresents herself here. Spin is her (and her Loon friends) middle name. They don't want Journey to succeed because for them there is no Journey without Perry. They've been having these same "discussions" here for years. they have nothing to bring to the table, Journey wise, so they spin the same old shite they always have. They had a Perry board, but they were never on it. You can believe anything you want to about Sherrie. My reality is based on facts.

Journey is kicking some major ass this year, and I'd rather go to concerts, read fan accounts, posts from JSS, about Andrew's trip to the US, etc., instead of reading somebody's untruths.

[Ms_M]

Great quotes from Deen! I liked him from the first time I saw him on the Bad English video where he introduces "Forget Me Not". He seemed down-to-earth even then!! The fact that he could sing.... Icing on the cake.

I have that too........too cute.....he has this 'little kid' zest about him.

That's exactly what it was!

[Enigma869]

Out of curiosity, would you/did you support Tickner, Prince, or Fleischman accepting awards at the WOF or the HOF?

Good question....I guess for me, I would have to say it would really depend on what each member's contribution was. Let me preface my comments by saying that I did not become a Journey fan (and never even heard of Journey) until Perry was brought into the band, so I'm definitely NOT an expert on the guys you're asking about. As I understand it, only one (Tickner)of the three guys you mentioned was a member of Journey for more than one year. Prince was only a member of Journey in 1973, and to my knowledge, not many people knew who Journey was in 1973. My understanding of Fleischman is that although he was also only in the band for one year, he had a major hand in "Wheel In The Sky" (a song that put Journey on the map). I guess for me personally, I certainly wouldn't want to accept an award that was recognizing successes that I had nothing to do with. I don't think someone just "passing through" (and if you only hang around for 1 year, you're certainly not doing much more than that) a band should be put on the same level with guys who have worked tirelessly (i.e. Schon and Cain) for many years, helping make Journey what they became.

John from Boston

[Matthew]

Spin is her (and her Loon friends) middle name.

Come on Yak...the spin the Augeri mob have come up with over the years has been pretty extraordinay at times. Rarely have I seen such an unshakeable denial of reality...it's like talking to an active alcoholic about their drinking problem....

They don't want Journey to succeed because for them there is no Journey without Perry.

Well...leaving aside the simple fact that Journey haven't succeeded without Perry...at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. It's not like the Loons are capable of sabotaging the band. I'm sure Schon and Cain couldn't give a shit.

They've been having these same "discussions" here for years. they have nothing to bring to the table, Journey wise, so they spin the same old shite they always have.

Well, I'd say the Loons perform a useful role on any Journey messageboard. First they can correct the revisionist history of the band which tries to minimize Perry's contribution. And second the Loons can remind everyone that Journey used to have incredibly high standards and that mediocrity isn't acceptable. Unfortunately, most 'new Journey' fans seem entirely comfortable with failure.

They had a Perry board, but they were never on it.

Why should they be? Since when is a Journey forum an inappropriate place to discuss Steve Perry? There wouldn't even BE a Journey messageboard had Perry not helped to create and make famous the timeless music that people want to talk about decades later.

Journey is kicking some major ass this year, and I'd rather go to concerts, read fan accounts, posts from JSS, about Andrew's trip to the US, etc., instead of reading somebody's untruths.

Well, Journey are kicking major ass playing a set list from 1983 on a support slot for a hair metal band. Let's not get carried away, Yak.

You say you'd rather read posts from JSS and about Andrew's trip. Yet the only time I see you on this forum is when Sherrie posts and you come out of nowhere to try to slam her down. Just an observation...

[NoMoreTails]

But before that I was a regular on Perryville...I spent far too much time arguing with the evangelical Augeri fans who had deviously taken over the Steve Perry Group on Yahoo....I got banned by BT after only two days....and so on...you get the picture. So I have my own history of Loonish behaviour..

This is unfortunate, other than those at BT which I rarely read anymore I haven't seen much of this type of fan. They of course have no business intruding on a Perry board.

NMT - how would you have felt had history turned out differently and Perry had carried on with Journey...without Schon....and not only that...had fired Schon and hired an inferior replacement on the grounds that he would create an illusion that Schon was still in the band...and THEN...as if that wasn't creepy and ruthless enough....you had to listen to Journey fans say that the new guy was just as good as Schon...when he clearly wasn't ...and that Schon didn't really matter anyway...and he was a prick and good riddance? I suspect you would have been irritated to death...
But if Perry had hired a guitarist who had his own distinctive style...who represented a move away from the "Schon era' ....well, as a Schon fan it would be much easier to live with, wouldn't it?.

I obviously would not have been a Journey fan without Schon's involvement as I was always a Journey fan because of Schon and in spite of Perry. While I appreciate the rare talent he had, it wasn't quite my cup of tea at times. So I suppose I'm basically a Schon fan and have even a bit more into Journey without Perry. I actually hoped HSAS would be a full time band as I enjoyed hearing Schon play with a singer with a bit more balls, if you will. So I would not consider them to be Journey in mind without Schon. I have considered the Perryheads I'm referring to as Perry fans, not Journey fans, as their view has essentially comes across as Neal not knowing what or when to play without Perry's guidance, Jon and Neal having nothing going for them as musicians w/out Perry dictating what they play. On the other hand, I feel that the Journey sound, musically is a result of Neal and Jon's efforts, as Perry never played a note on record that I'm aware of....just as the Journey vocal sound was Perry's doing, obviously.
The difference in the scenario you mentioned with Neal being replaced is this, Perry was not fired but left the band hanging without any indication that he would ever return and given a final ultimatim still gave no indication of his intentions. In my opinion, anyone with an open mind looking at the statements of all parties would arrive at this conclusion, especially given Perry's ten year history of bs-ing the band and the fans.
Here's the thing, if the situation were reversed and Schon chose not to carry on and was replaced, I would not be a fan of that incarnation, regardless of whether Perry attempted to replace him with a different type of player or with an attempt to duplicate his sound (as Perry did on For the Loath of Sappy Music)---but I would not spend years on a Journey forum bitching about the band not having the right to carry on and call themselves Journey without him when he himself gave them the ok to carry on in agreeing to step down and was compensated for doing so. This is the view of a few Perry extremists who have been here for years, I am not talking about the new Perry-slanted fans who have arrived in recent months as their thoughts are not ingrained in my mind.

[NoMoreTails]

Maybe the reason you feel that way NMT is because you've always just written us off as Perryheads who couldn't possibly have anything valuable to say, rather than actually reading what we as individuals actually say. Why do you find it so impossible to believe that some of us could possibly think going forward with a vocalist and performer of Jeff's caliber is a much better idea than trying to continue to capitalize on the Perry sound with a weak substitute? I've never called Perry a God or worshipped him anymore than a lot of people have done so with Neal or even Augeri. I explained how I feel about it in my previous post, but I guess others are more qualified to say how I really feel, than I am?

Actually, as I said in my post, you are the one who has backed your feelings with some reasoning and really the only one who I felt any respect for, for that reason. There were many times in some of your posts that I found value in what you wrote, unlike HOTS and the one who always wrote in the obnoxious red font. But I did feel that fundamentally, you were a Perry fan rather than a Journey fan, perhaps I'm wrong to stereotype you with the others, for that I appologize. My post to which you replied was not intended to be directed specifically at you, even though you were the only "Perry-head" MR long-timer posting. You may have said long ago that they should have moved on with a different type singer...but someone said that and included the statement that they should re-name the band as well as it isn't Journey without SP. Perhaps you will be a fan with JSS, but I had my doubts, and still do about some of the others as the underlying theme for them has always been it isn't Journey without Perry.

[Enigma869]

There wouldn't even BE a Journey messageboard had Perry not helped to create and make famous the timeless music that people want to talk about decades later.

This is the point I've been making for years. I realize there are some people who don't like Perry. I also realize there are some so-called Journey fans who are into much more edgier music than what Perry was known for. That said, it doesn't change the fact that Perry was true to who he was, when it came to playing the music he wrote and sang. I'll acquiesce to those who say Perry wasn't "my cup of tea" or that his voice was "feminine". None of this changes the fact that his voice is what made Journey as famous as they became and his voice is the reason that most Journey fans still come to message boards to talk about Journey. To those Journey fans who whine about Perry not being "edgy" enough (I've heard this for years)...go listen to Metallica!

By the way NMT, this isn't a shot at you. I get the fact that you're a Schon fan. I think Schon is brilliant, but wouldn't spend a nickel to listen to Neal, or anyone else, just play guitar licks, as it's simply not my "cup of tea"! It also makes sense that being a Schon fan that you wouldn't be a big fan of Perry or the music he played. Neal is the only musician I know of who has always seemed to have a certain amount of disdain for the music he makes a living playing. I think this is why Neal has had more "side projects" over the years than Perry ever had. I will at least give Neal credit for being smart enough to understand that regardless of how talented he is as a musician, all of his talent isn't enough to pay his bills without the name Journey attached to what he's doing. I'm sure this fact tortures him on some level.

John from Boston

[NoMoreTails]

There wouldn't even BE a Journey messageboard had Perry not helped to create and make famous the timeless music that people want to talk about decades later.

This is the point I've been making for years. I realize there are some people who don't like Perry. I also realize there are some so-called Journey fans who are into much more edgier music than what Perry was known for. That said, it doesn't change the fact that Perry was true to who he was, when it came to playing the music he wrote and sang. I'll acquiesce to those who say Perry wasn't "my cup of tea" or that his voice was "feminine". None of this changes the fact that his voice is what made Journey as famous as they became and his voice is the reason that most Journey fans still come to message boards to talk about Journey. To those Journey fans who whine about Perry not being "edgy" enough (I've heard this for years)...go listen to Metallica!

By the way NMT, this isn't a shot at you. I get the fact that you're a Schon fan. I think Schon is brilliant, but wouldn't spend a nickel to listen to Neal, or anyone else, just play guitar licks, as it's simply not my "cup of tea"! It also makes sense that being a Schon fan that you wouldn't be a big fan of Perry or the music he played. Neal is the only musician I know of who has always seemed to have a certain amount of disdain for the music he makes a living playing. I think this is why Neal has had more "side projects" over the years than Perry ever had. I will at least give Neal credit for being smart enough to understand that regardless of how talented he is as a musician, all of his talent isn't enough to pay his bills without the name Journey attached to what he's doing. I'm sure this fact tortures him on some level.

John from Boston

You make some good points but I don't think Neal "hates" Journey music...with a few exceptions obviously...much of it is him, his sound and melodic style is a huge part of it, he can't hate something he puts so much into, but as he has staded gets bored playing the same thing every night.
As far as the Metallica remark, I still want to hear someone who can actually sing and some melody.

[Matthew]

I obviously would not have been a Journey fan without Schon's involvement as I was always a Journey fan because of Schon and in spite of Perry.

Okay. I became a Journey fan because of the combination of Perry and Schon.

I have considered the Perryheads I'm referring to as Perry fans, not Journey fans, as their view has essentially comes across as Neal not knowing what or when to play without Perry's guidance, Jon and Neal having nothing going for them as musicians w/out Perry dictating what they play.

To say that Schon and Cain have nothing going for them is of course ridiculous. However...the difference in the quality of Schon and Cain's work with Perry...compared to their work without him...is staggering. I'm sure this is because of the extraodinary chemistry between Perry, Schon and Cain...rather than Perry simply telling them what to do....but there's no doubt that Perry bought the best out of the musicians around him.

On the other hand, I feel that the Journey sound, musically is a result of Neal and Jon's efforts, as Perry never played a note on record that I'm aware of....just as the Journey vocal sound was Perry's doing, obviously.

Well, the voice isn't just a minor aspect of Journey's music. In fact, it's more central to the sound of this band than it is to most others. Also - Perry co-wrote most of the classic songs which Journey play to this day.

Here's the thing, if the situation were reversed and Schon chose not to carry on and was replaced, I would not be a fan of that incarnation....but I would not spend years on a Journey forum bitching about the band not having the right to carry on and call themselves Journey without him when he himself gave them the ok to carry on in agreeing to step down and was compensated for doing so.

Maybe not - but if you went on Journey messageboard to talk about Schon's time in the classic era of the band...and repeatedly read posts which tried to minimize Schon's role in the band.....and belittle his talent and character...it would surely be tempting to respond?

And to this day no-one knows how Perry felt about leaving Journey. He was still fired, wasn't he? Sure, he didn't unleash a law-suit preventing them from using the Journey name and he took his cut of all future tours - but he never made it clear to his fans that he was contented or ready to leave the band.

Perry's 'enigmatic' behaviour can be interpreted in many ways - but the impression I get is that he was deeply hurt - possibly even devastated - by what happened. Who knows though...

[NoMoreTails]

To say that Schon and Cain have nothing going for them is of course ridiculous. However...the difference in the quality of Schon and Cain's work with Perry...compared to their work without him...is staggering.

To some I suppose, I'll take the best of the Augeri era right along with the best of the Perry era and the worst isn't as bad as ROR. I'm a big fan of Red13, in the minority among post-Perry era fans.

Maybe not - but if you went on Journey messageboard to talk about Schon's time in the classic era of the band...and repeatedly read posts which tried to minimize Schon's role in the band.....and belittle his talent and character...it would surely be tempting to respond?...

I tend to think that if I wasn't a fan, I wouldn't be wasting my time on a Journey message board, especially BT which of course is paid for by the band....and speaking of time need to get back to work in moment...

And to this day no-one knows how Perry felt about leaving Journey. He was still fired, wasn't he? Sure, he didn't unleash a law-suit preventing them from using the Journey name and he took his cut of all future tours - but he never officially resigned or made it clear to his fans that he was contented or ready to leave the band.

And speaking of work, if I didn't show up to work for ten years and again for two, I'd probably be replaced, even if I were partners with four other guys, they'd probaby want to buy me out of the partnership rather than go out of business, which would be their prerogative.
I don't believe Perry would have ever said he was ready to leave, but I think he knows he could no longer endure singing on tour but can't admit it. He must have resigned his position as singer, even if he still gets a cut. Everything I've ever heard leads me to think he stepped aside, I don't interpret it as being fired, but if others do that's fine, I think they'd have been within their rights if they had fired him and wouldn't care if they had.

Perry's 'enigmatic' behaviour can be interpreted in many ways - but the impression I get is that he was deeply hurt - possibly even devastated - by what happened. Who knows though...

Perhaps, this would be another saga in Perry's "whoa is me" melodrama of the last 20 years.

[Matthew]

This is unfortunate, other than those at BT which I rarely read anymore I haven't seen much of this type of fan. They of course have no business intruding on a Perry board.

NMT - the Augeri evangelicals didn't just intrude on the Steve Perry Group...they took it over and became the moderators. When asked why so many glowing reviews of Augeri's live shows (written by the moderators) were being posted the response was: "Perry hasn't done anything for years. What's to talk about?"

And when Tapegate was happening any reference to the lip-syncing allegations was forbidden and several admin warnings were issued to those who disobeyed. It was like the death of John Lennon on that site when Augeri finally left...

Anyway...it was all fun while it lasted...

[NoMoreTails]

This is unfortunate, other than those at BT which I rarely read anymore I haven't seen much of this type of fan. They of course have no business intruding on a Perry board.

NMT - the Augeri evangelicals didn't just intrude on the Steve Perry Group...they took it over and became the moderators. When asked why so many glowing reviews of Augeri's live shows from the moderators were being posted the response was: "Perry hasn't done anything for years. What's to talk about?"

And when Tapegate was happening any reference to the lip-syncing allegations was forbidden and several admin warnings were issued to those who disobeyed. It was like the death of John Lennon on that site when Augeri finally left...

Anyway...it was all fun while it lasted...

Unbelievable that some would be so obsessed to go to these lengths, and hard to believe they actually pulled it off...a coup de tat (sp?) that would make a few Perry "evangelicals" I've seen green with envy however.

[Red13JoePa]

The "Journey should change their name without Perry" thing is preposterous. That notion is just beyond me I guess.

Regarding another point raised, "what if Perry had opted to carry on Journey w/out Neal?"
I believe this to be moot as Neal, being a (the) founding member would have had to give permission for that whereas they didn't really need Perry's permission to stay Journey with Steve Augeri.

NMT, thanks for giving class and a good name to us JourneyWithAugeri fans.

OhSherrie: You've always been the best of the loons b/c it's never been about mere hitting and running with you.

[Matthew]

Regarding another point raised, "what if Perry had opted to carry on Journey w/out Neal?"
I believe this to be moot as Neal, being a (the) founding member would have had to give permission for that whereas they didn't really need Perry's permission to stay Journey with Steve Augeri.

That's true - but they did need Perry's permission to make a living touring the Greatest Hits.

But...it's just a hypothetical scenario...just for the sake of argument. How would you have felt, Red 13?

[Enigma869]

The "Journey should change their name without Perry" thing is preposterous. That notion is just beyond me I guess.

Regarding another point raised, "what if Perry had opted to carry on Journey w/out Neal?"
I believe this to be moot as Neal, being a (the) founding member would have had to give permission for that whereas they didn't really need Perry's permission to stay Journey with Steve Augeri.

NMT, thanks for giving class and a good name to us JourneyWithAugeri fans.

OhSherrie: You've always been the best of the loons b/c it's never been about mere hitting and running with you.

Well, for what it's worth, I've never been a Perry fan who thought that Neal didn't have the "right" to carry on with the name "Journey" if Perry wasn't part of it. I don't think you're correct at all that Perry didn't have to give his permission for Neal to carry on with the name "Journey". In fact, I think it's been fairly well-documented that Perry had to agree to quite a bit (I'm sure for substantial monetary consideration) for Journey to carry on without him.

I guess the philosophical side of me has always wondered..."When does it stop being Journey"? and also "What even makes it Journey"? Is it the music? Is it the musicians? Is it the lyrics? Is it the sound? Is it the vocalist? I think the notion from Schon devotees that "As long as Neal is there, it will always be Journey" is flat out ridiculous! As brilliant of a musician as Neal has always been, not everything Neal does is "Journey". I think Neal's role in Journey has been EVERY bit as important as anyone else's role. But, the reality is that Neal has many other parts to who he is as a musician that are the antitihesis of what Journey was.

For me, the name "Journey" will never be "fractured". What they are in 2006, and beyond isn't going to change my perception of what was. For selfish reasons, I do hope that Journey carries on and records new material with Jeff. Having said that, it will really never be what it was and I think that has as much to do with Perry being gone as it has to do with the calendar not reading 1983, any longer!

John from Boston

[Matthew]

To some I suppose...

I reckon to millions, NMT. To prefer Schon's side-projects and post-Perry Journey is very much a minority view....although that doesn't invalidate your opinion in any way....

I tend to think that if I wasn't a fan, I wouldn't be wasting my time on a Journey message board, especially BT which of course is paid for by the band....and speaking of time need to get back to work in moment...

It's hard not to be a fan of Journey if you're a fan of Perry...the two are so interconnected....and yes..I'm at work too...and I ought to be too mature and professional to be spending my time talking about a soft rock band from the 80s....oh well...

I think they'd have been within their rights if they had fired him and wouldn't care if they had.

They were clearly within their rights...but they still made a dog's dinner of their career as a result of that decision...

Perhaps, this would be another saga in Perry's "whoa is me" melodrama of the last 20 years.

That's just the way it is with a troubled genius. I'd rather that than some beige guy who shows up to work on time each day and barely makes an impression.

Actually...I'd rather the troubled genius showed up to work now and again..but you know what I mean...

[NoMoreTails]

talking about a soft rock band from the 80s....oh well...

Exactly my problem with Perry, we should be talking about a hard rock band.

That's just the way it is with a troubled genius. I'd rather that than some beige guy who shows up to work on time each day and barely makes an impression.

This is arrogant enough to have been said by Perry himself.

[Matthew]

Exactly my problem with Perry, we should be talking about a hard rock band.

Oh...the Perry wimped out the band myth...take another listen to "Frontiers", NMT.

This is arrogant enough to have been said by Perry himself.

Why is that arrogant of me? Surely we want rock stars to be out of the ordinary?

[Red13JoePa]

Regarding another point raised, "what if Perry had opted to carry on Journey w/out Neal?"
I believe this to be moot as Neal, being a (the) founding member would have had to give permission for that whereas they didn't really need Perry's permission to stay Journey with Steve Augeri.

That's true - but they did need Perry's permission to make a living touring the Greatest Hits.

But...it's just a hypothetical scenario...just for the sake of argument. How would you have felt, Red 13?

Dunno. I'd have my reservations to say the least. But if the legal shoe were on the other legal foot, I would accept that Journey would and could still be Journey w/ out Neal.
I wouldn't LIKE it, but I wouldn't feel like they should HAVE to change the name of the band.

[Deb]

talking about a soft rock band from the 80s....oh well...

Exactly my problem with Perry, we should be talking about a hard rock band.

That's just the way it is with a troubled genius. I'd rather that than some beige guy who shows up to work on time each day and barely makes an impression.

This is arrogant enough to have been said by Perry himself.

Maybe.....but a kiss ass he wasn't/isn't.

Matt, you rock guy!

[Red13JoePa]

The "Journey should change their name without Perry" thing is preposterous. That notion is just beyond me I guess.

Regarding another point raised, "what if Perry had opted to carry on Journey w/out Neal?"
I believe this to be moot as Neal, being a (the) founding member would have had to give permission for that whereas they didn't really need Perry's permission to stay Journey with Steve Augeri.

NMT, thanks for giving class and a good name to us JourneyWithAugeri fans.

OhSherrie: You've always been the best of the loons b/c it's never been about mere hitting and running with you.

Well, for what it's worth, I've never been a Perry fan who thought that Neal didn't have the "right" to carry on with the name "Journey" if Perry wasn't part of it. I don't think you're correct at all that Perry didn't have to give his permission for Neal to carry on with the name "Journey". In fact, I think it's been fairly well-documented that Perry had to agree to quite a bit (I'm sure for substantial monetary consideration) for Journey to carry on without him.

Oh, it's well-documented and admitted by the band that they needed his permission to put out the Journey 2001 dvd because it was an official release of songs he at least cowrote....
Yes, he still gets $ when they play live.
However I feel it was all by mutual consent not because he owned the name journey. IMO it was hush/go away quietly $. If it became a litigation matter I deeply question if perry would've prevailed.
But then again, there is the precedent of Frankie Sullivan and Jim Peterik losing their suit to stop Jimi Jamison from touring as Survivor and JJ wasn't even a founding member.....


Enigma, it's known that I'm PC illiterate and maybe the board's worst quoter but in your 2d paragraph you raise a doozie, "when does it stop being Jrny?"

Dunno....as a huge Foreigner fan I have signifigant misgivings about Mick Jones being the only remaining founding member of the current lineup and my ability to percieve it as Frnr as such...

[NoMoreTails]

I don't really see why we would want to continue this,

talking about a soft rock band from the 80s....oh well....

Oh...the Perry wimped out the band myth...take another listen to "Frontiers", NMT.?

....as you're the one who called them soft rock, so did I perpetuate the myth anymore than you?

Why is that arrogant of me? Surely we want rock stars to be out of the ordinary?

And I didn't say you were arrogant, just that the statement was arrogant enough to be worthy of Perry.

...but I'll conclude by saying if the thing about Augeri being "beige" if that's some kind of terminology meaning bland as compared to Perry's "flowery" meanderings, yeah, I'll take the blue collar guy that wasn't an asshole to work with, just wish he had used more of his own vibe as on Generations. Anyway maybe the only common ground we have, we could both feel our guy was abused at the workload put on him by the band then thrown under the bus when they couldn't or shouldn't continue any longer. Difference is, if I like them with JSS, fine, if not I'm not going to judge whether it's their right to move on with him.