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[jrnyman28]

Perry, Neal, Cain, Ross and Smitty are the legacy of Journey imo, but I'm sure they would want everyone ever involved in part of the band to be there, too.

I do not believe you can overlook Gregg Rolie's contributions to the band.

I also disagree about allowing Deen and Steve to be a part of a RNRHOF celebration. Whether the band continued having hits or not is irrelevant to the RNRHOF award. As John said, it is a "lifetime" acheivement. That means lifetime of the band. Deen and Steve are a part of that lifetime...as well as Aynsley and George. And to a lesser degree Robert and Randy.

[yak]

Come on Yak...the spin the Augeri mob have come up with over the years has been pretty extraordinay at times. Rarely have I seen such an unshakeable denial of reality...it's like talking to an active alcoholic about their drinking problem....

Come on and what? Come over to your way of thinking? This post is not even remotely about Steve Augeri. When one changes the subject, it's because one has nothing pertinent to say.

Well...leaving aside the simple fact that Journey haven't succeeded without Perry...at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. It's not like the Loons are capable of sabotaging the band. I'm sure Schon and Cain couldn't give a shit.

The "simple fact" is that Journey's out on the road; Perry's sitting in his easy chair with his cats. Here's to "success is in the eye of the beholder."

Well, I'd say the Loons perform a useful role on any Journey messageboard. First they can correct the revisionist history of the band which tries to minimize Perry's contribution. And second the Loons can remind everyone that Journey used to have incredibly high standards and that mediocrity isn't acceptable. Unfortunately, most 'new Journey' fans seem entirely comfortable with failure.

Their memory is selective when it comes to Perry. The man sees no evil, hears no evil, does no evil.

Do those incredibly high standards include Perry never signing autographs for his fans at the end of a concert? Neal and Jon stayed late and did just that. Perry was nowhere to be found. Do those incredibly high standards include being the main control of the entity, as in "my way or the highway?" It's a band, not a one man show.

They had a Perry board, but they were never on it.

Why should they be?

Because it was the Perry board at MR. They bitched until Andrew gave them what they wanted, and they thanked him by constantly being on the Journey board, trying to disrupt it.

Well, Journey are kicking major ass playing a set list from 1983 on a support slot for a hair metal band. Let's not get carried away, Yak.

Journey's out on the road earning money for an ex-singer content to sit on his duff and collect checks while watching baseball games. What's your poster boy done, solo or otherwise, past and present, other than reissues, or whistling backup on somebody else's CD, that's made headlines? Truth is, Perry went solo only to semi moderate success, and that was with backing.

You say you'd rather read posts from JSS and about Andrew's trip. Yet the only time I see you on this forum is when Sherrie posts and you come out of nowhere to try to slam her down. Just an observation...

And you defend ohsherrie to the death. Are you part of her contingent? Aren't you the one who said you used to frequent Perryville? A guy at Perryville? Yeah...OK.

[jrnyman28]

Loons perform a useful role on any Journey messageboard. First they can correct the revisionist history of the band which tries to minimize Perry's contribution.

And revise their own history as well...

[Enigma869]

It's all about the sound of the band and once a sound is drastically altered (see Queen with Paul Rodgers), it just isn't the same any longer. Ever wonder why Queen felt compelled to stop calling themselves Queen and now refer to themselves as "Queen, featuring Paul Rodgers"? John from Boston

Perhaps its to say "we're not trying to replace Freddie just want to play Queen music again" on the other hand, Paul Rodgers is pretty well known on his own, possibly a marketing ploy to draw additional interest. Obviously more name recognition than Journey calling the shows Journey featuring Steve Augeri or Journey featuring Jeff Scott Soto. Also, Freddie's not here to sign away his rights to the band in order to pad his bank account, as Perry did...yes if he was against "cracking the stone" more than he was greedy, perhaps he would have fought the band on legal grounds in order to "preserve the integrity of the music."

So would you have preferred him to hold up the band forever instead of signing his rights away......which is it. I'm sorry, but I find your last sentence laughable. At that time, how would Perry know whether "Journey" would go anywhere or not......to be padding his bank account. Maybe I don't know enough of what went down back then....so if I am way off base, somebody enlighten me.

My statement is not about what I prefer, its about what the band preferred and what Perry preferred and how I find his statement about cracking the stone to be load of bs.

NMT...

I think what you "prefer" is pretty obvious. I mean, hell...look at your user name. You actually picked a user name to mock Perry's ridiculous fashion of the 70's. While I would certainly never defend Perry's ridiculous outfits...they were no more ridiculous than Neal and his goofy white man's afro! Like I always say to Monker...We get it dude...You hate Perry and think the guy is a waste of oxygen. Honestly, I think most of your postings are very well thought out and I don't think you're ever a dick about the way you post. That said, telling everyone how many ways you despise Perry and how you became a fan of Journey "in spite of Perry" and what an "asshole" Perry is (as if you know anything about the guy, aside from what you heard on a VH special), is every bit as bad as the Perry "loons" talking about Perry being the only component of Journey that ever mattered, which incidentally, I think is tremendously flawed thinking. I hope that you're at least a bit more open minded about Jeff Scott Soto. Is it safe to assume you were one of the 10 people who actually heard of Journey before Perry was added to the band? I guess for fans of Journey, pre-Perry, I could see how Perry wasn't what they were looking for from a lead vocalist. Hell, Perry wasn't even what Schon was looking for in a lead vocalist! Thank god Herbie had enough power back then to "strongarm" Neal and saving the guy from himself!

John from Boston

[jrnyman28]

I think it's been fairly well-documented that Perry had to agree to quite a bit (I'm sure for substantial monetary consideration) for Journey to carry on without him.

Actually, I think it is more accurate that Journey had to agree to a lot to carry on without Perry. Perry seemed to have more control over the separation (IMO).

[Deb]

And you defend ohsherrie to the death. Are you part of her contingent? Aren't you the one who said you used to frequent Perryville? A guy at Perryville? Yeah...OK.

Wow, I must have missed a whole shwack of posts......I didn't see him defending ohsherrie "to the death." I used to frequent Perryville too and yes there were guys there.....Matt, Wix, Deano, etc. (ya even Deano.....calling him a wuss too, ya thought so ). Wow, how come so bitter?

[NoMoreTails]

NMT...
I think what you "prefer" is pretty obvious. I mean, hell...look at your user name. You actually picked a user name to mock Perry's ridiculous fashion of the 70's....

Actually its the words from band's company name, post Perry, NOMOTA is taken from, which is a reference to being rid of Perry undoubtedly. Yes, a remark about Perry's 80's rather than 70s attire, incidentally I liked Neal's 76-78 look, prett cool for those times, I really dig pre-Perry Journey but first listened to it sometime in the 80s, actually bought Infinity first, just before Escape was released. ...Headed out the door now so I don't have time for more.

[Enigma869]

NMT...
I think what you "prefer" is pretty obvious. I mean, hell...look at your user name. You actually picked a user name to mock Perry's ridiculous fashion of the 70's....

Actually its the words from band's company name, post Perry, NOMOTA is taken from, which is a reference to being rid of Perry undoubtedly. Yes, a remark about Perry's 80's rather than 70s attire, incidentally I liked Neal's 76-78 look, prett cool for those times, I really dig pre-Perry Journey but first listened to it sometime in the 80s, actually bought Infinity first, just before Escape was released. ...Headed out the door now so I don't have time for more.

No problem NMT. Thanks for the clarification on when you became a fan of Journey. I was wrong for assuming it was pre-Perry. God bless you for liking Neal's look, back in the day. I just never thought any white dude could look even remotely cool with an afro! In any event, I enjoy the exchanges with you, even if we don't agree on the Perry issue. At the end of the day, this is an open forum and varying viewpoints should be expected and accepted. Unlike BT, at least this site actually allows for some intelligent back and forth between the members without blowhard moderators competing with each other to see which one of them can lock the thread first!

John from Boston

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not the ESC4P3/Frontiers SP voice but I like his sound better on the ROR and FTLSM/TBF era anyway. I thought he pulled it off good and put on a good show.

Agreed. His voice lost that annoying oil squeak quality to it.

[Moose]

Not the ESC4P3/Frontiers SP voice but I like his sound better on the ROR and FTLSM/TBF era anyway. I thought he pulled it off good and put on a good show.

Agreed. His voice lost that annoying oil squeak quality to it.

I also agree. He had a more mature sounding voice, and I thought he was great on the FTLSM tour.

[Monker]

I know this is true, but it's such BS logic it makes me sick. Kevin Chalfant could be up there replacing Augeri and they would be saying the same things as they are about JSS.

I'm not so sure.
Monker says Perryfans were tearing down Chalfant as a Perry clone as far back as during The Storm.
He says some Perry fans even claimed Kevin was trying to dress and act like Perry.
If he were to replace Augeri, such criticisms could likely start back up again.

Yes, that is exactly what they were saying back in 1992 thru 1995 or so.

I'm sure some would do that again, some wouldn't, some would act towards him as they do JSS. I *KNOW* some Perry fans who were saying those type of things who are now big Chalfant fans - because they actually LISTENED to him, instead of just critiquing him as a Perry replacement.

Also, someone else nailed it a while back that JSS does more Perry'isms in his singing then Augeri ever did. Sometimes it's as if he is singing along to the Escape DVD. It's pretty ironic that he doesn't get more critique about that from Perry fans. Augeri did much more to make those songs 'his own', instead of doing it just as Perry would.

[Monker]

If you knew anything about music, you wouldn't have purchased them from Amazon to begin with.

Hey fuckhead...

I never claimed to be a "music producer"! Jeff's cd is the only cd I've ever purchased on Amazon, and I did that because many people here said it was the only place to find any of Jeff's material. Now go insult someone else, asshole!

John from Boston

If you want to find rare'ish CDs/vinyl/etc. of ANY artist, try gemm.com

[Enigma869]

If you want to find rare'ish CDs/vinyl/etc. of ANY artist, try gemm.com

Thanks for the tip, dude!

John from Boston

[Enigma869]

It's pretty ironic that he doesn't get more critique about that from Perry fans. Augeri did much more to make those songs 'his own', instead of doing it just as Perry would.

I think Perry's influence on JSS is VERY evident. I think the main reason you're probably not hearing Perry fans criticize Jeff for his "Perry-isms" is that in my opinion, Jeff's voice sounds NOTHING like Perry's, while Augeri's voice resembled it a bit. Jeff's style is also VASTLY different than Perry's or Augeri's. I think Augeri had a much thinner voice than Perry, but his tone wasn't that dissimilar. I also think the fact that Jeff has been very clear about how much he looks up to Perry can't help but give the guy a "free pass" with most Perry fans. It's very difficult to criticize a guy who has never had any open criticisms about a guy who many people feel will always be the voice of Journey.

John from Boston

[Matthew]

Yeah, and all you ever wanted was a place to trash Augeri without his fans to argue with, right?

I notice that you've edited out the last line of my post in which I said it was fun arguing with Augeri's fans.

Perry RARELY does anything worth talking about anymore, so what IS there to discuss? I've been to Perry boards, and they don't discuss anything of substance either. It's all, "what if you had dinner with him?? what would you ask???" and, "OMG, Neal and Jon suck!! Look at this interview!!"

That's a reasonable point to make - but you're not an moderator of a Steve Perry Group. The people I was talking about were moderators - and given they believed Perry was an exhausted subject of conversation then they could easily have started a new group about about something which did interest them. Instead they used Steve Perry's name to attract a high volume of fans in order to promote the Augeri line-up of the band.

Perry has been discussed in neverending circles for years. There's simply not much more to say about him (well, maybe the reissues)... it seems like you are kind of new to the "fandom" so you think there's a lot you could say, but I assure you it's nothing new. We, they, everyone has heard it all.

Well, I guess I am "kind of new" compared to the Journey dinosaurs like Cubby who believe that jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where it's at - but nonetheless I did become a Journey fan twenty years ago. So spare me the world-weary, old-timer spiel...

[cubby69]

Well, I guess I am "kind of new" compared to the Journey dinosaurs like Cubby who believe that jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where it's at - but nonetheless I did become a Journey fan twenty years ago. So spare me the world-weary, old-timer spiel...

Hey, don't bring my name up in a thread I haven't had any discussion in. I never said jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where its at', all I've ever tried to point out to a closed minded fuck head like yourself is Journey's history does not fall just between 1981 - 1986. You want it to be 1983 forever, so who's living in the past. You want to limit this band to do nothing else, make no other song unless it fits into that 5 year span of a sound you think is the definition of this band. And all I'm saying is they have been around for 33 years, they have had many differents sounds with many different members who've come and gone, all who have contributed to the Journey legacy. I do not define the sound or history of any band by a couple of albums that were the peak of their commercial success, especially when (IMHO) they were not the best albums released. So do me a favor and shut the fuck up!

[Crazie Scarab]

Hey, don't bring my name up in a thread I haven't had any discussion in. I never said jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where its at', all I've ever tried to point out to a closed minded fuck head like yourself is Journey's history does not fall just between 1981 - 1986. You want it to be 1983 forever, so who's living in the past. You want to limit this band to do nothing else, make no other song unless it fits into that 5 year span of a sound you think is the definition of this band. And all I'm saying is they have been around for 33 years, they have had many differents sounds with many different members who've come and gone, all who have contributed to the Journey legacy. I do not define the sound or history of any band by a couple of albums that were the peak of their commercial success, especially when (IMHO) they were not the best albums released. So do me a favor and shut the fuck up!

One awesome post!

How are ya, Cubby?

[cubby69]

Hey, don't bring my name up in a thread I haven't had any discussion in. I never said jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where its at', all I've ever tried to point out to a closed minded fuck head like yourself is Journey's history does not fall just between 1981 - 1986. You want it to be 1983 forever, so who's living in the past. You want to limit this band to do nothing else, make no other song unless it fits into that 5 year span of a sound you think is the definition of this band. And all I'm saying is they have been around for 33 years, they have had many differents sounds with many different members who've come and gone, all who have contributed to the Journey legacy. I do not define the sound or history of any band by a couple of albums that were the peak of their commercial success, especially when (IMHO) they were not the best albums released. So do me a favor and shut the fuck up!

One awesome post!

How are ya, Cubby?

Hey bud, thanks, I'm doing good, how's life treating ya?

[yak]

A Great Post, Cubby!

[donnaplease]

I think Perry's influence on JSS is VERY evident. I think the main reason you're probably not hearing Perry fans criticize Jeff for his "Perry-isms" is that in my opinion, Jeff's voice sounds NOTHING like Perry's, while Augeri's voice resembled it a bit. Jeff's style is also VASTLY different than Perry's or Augeri's. I think Augeri had a much thinner voice than Perry, but his tone wasn't that dissimilar. I also think the fact that Jeff has been very clear about how much he looks up to Perry can't help but give the guy a "free pass" with most Perry fans. It's very difficult to criticize a guy who has never had any open criticisms about a guy who many people feel will always be the voice of Journey.

John from Boston

I kinda think it's a little more than that. I believe the fact that Jeff is the second singer after SP kinda softens the blow to the die-hard Perry fans.

I couldn't agree more that the Perry-era is THE BEST era of the band. I saw SA a few years ago and was actually more impressed than I wanted to admit.

I appreciate the respect that JSS has shown toward SP, and to be honest, that is kinda what has led me to want to see them (with him on lead) again.

I'm still holding out hope that eventually a SP/Journey reunion will happen (I know, I'm not holding my breath...) Until then, I want to support JSS, Neal, Jon and the boys. STEVE PERRY will always be 'the man' to me though.

John, you always seem to have a well-thought-out response, and I have really enjoyed this debate.

I hope to see you guys in Baltimore!

[Crazie Scarab]

Hey bud, thanks, I'm doing good, how's life treating ya?

Not bad, bro. Considering everything.

[A Fire Inside]

That's a reasonable point to make - but you're not an moderator of a Steve Perry Group.

Nor am I a member, but - I find it hard to believe that a SP group would actually squelch all talk of its namesake... but I'll just take your word for it.

Well, I guess I am "kind of new" compared to the Journey dinosaurs like Cubby who believe that jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where it's at - but nonetheless I did become a Journey fan twenty years ago. So spare me the world-weary, old-timer spiel...

Not a new FAN but new to the Internet scene, where we all just talk about the same things over and over and over... there's rarely anything "new" to argue about regarding Perry.

[Enigma869]

there's rarely anything "new" to argue about regarding Perry.

And there probably never will be, either! So what...there is enough "old" stuff to argue about, regarding Perry for the rest of ALL of our lives!

John from Boston

[journeyrock]

Well, I guess I am "kind of new" compared to the Journey dinosaurs like Cubby who believe that jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where it's at - but nonetheless I did become a Journey fan twenty years ago. So spare me the world-weary, old-timer spiel...

Hey, don't bring my name up in a thread I haven't had any discussion in. I never said jazz/rock 'fusion' and denim flares are where its at', all I've ever tried to point out to a closed minded fuck head like yourself is Journey's history does not fall just between 1981 - 1986. You want it to be 1983 forever, so who's living in the past. You want to limit this band to do nothing else, make no other song unless it fits into that 5 year span of a sound you think is the definition of this band. And all I'm saying is they have been around for 33 years, they have had many differents sounds with many different members who've come and gone, all who have contributed to the Journey legacy. I do not define the sound or history of any band by a couple of albums that were the peak of their commercial success, especially when (IMHO) they were not the best albums released. So do me a favor and shut the fuck up!

It is sort of funny that they are not singing any songs in their concerts that are any later than 1986 and the majority of them are between 81 and 86. IMHO, those years DO define Journey at this point in time. That isn't to say they couldn't evolve with JSS and redefine themselves.

[A Fire Inside]

I appreciate the respect that JSS has shown toward SP, and to be honest, that is kinda what has led me to want to see them (with him on lead) again.

When was SA disrespectful to SP? Didn't he even thank him in the liner notes on his Journey albums?

[donnaplease]

I wasn't suggesting SA was disrespectful, but I believe I have read that some disparaging remarks were made... I have no Augeri albums, so therefore I have no idea what he has or hasn't said. As I've said before, I have just recently renewed my interest in the band, so I'm not aware of most of the SA era. I saw him in concert with them once, but until this past summer, they have been totally off my radar.

Please don't read more into it than that.

[Monker]

I think Perry's influence on JSS is VERY evident. I think the main reason you're probably not hearing Perry fans criticize Jeff for his "Perry-isms" is that in my opinion, Jeff's voice sounds NOTHING like Perry's, while Augeri's voice resembled it a bit. Jeff's style is also VASTLY different than Perry's or Augeri's.

That can be your opinion...He sounds just as much like Perry in concert as Augeri, IMO.

I think Augeri had a much thinner voice than Perry, but his tone wasn't that dissimilar.

And, JSS uses the same vocal inflections, or whatever, as Perry. He sings the songs the same way as they are on the Houston DVD, for example.

It's hypocritical to critique Augeri for having the same 'tone' as Perry, which he can't help, and NOT critique JSS for basicaly mimicing the songs as they were sung in 1981-1984.

I also think the fact that Jeff has been very clear about how much he looks up to Perry can't help but give the guy a "free pass" with most Perry fans.

Augeri said the same things.

It's very difficult to criticize a guy who has never had any open criticisms about a guy who many people feel will always be the voice of Journey.

What 'open criticisms' did Augeri make towards Steve Perry?

[Monker]

[color=blue]I kinda think it's a little more than that. I believe the fact that Jeff is the second singer after SP kinda softens the blow to the die-hard Perry fans.

I agree with this.

I couldn't agree more that the Perry-era is THE BEST era of the band. I saw SA a few years ago and was actually more impressed than I wanted to admit.

LOL...I wonder how many others the above is true for?

I think many people simply get caught up in a "group belief", and just follow it. Not really saying that's what you did...but, I do think others did.

[Monker]

there's rarely anything "new" to argue about regarding Perry.

Yep, he still has a big nose :v)

[Monker]

I wasn't suggesting SA was disrespectful, but I believe I have read that some disparaging remarks were made... I have no Augeri albums, so therefore I have no idea what he has or hasn't said. As I've said before, I have just recently renewed my interest in the band, so I'm not aware of most of the SA era. I saw him in concert with them once, but until this past summer, they have been totally off my radar.

Please don't read more into it than that.

I don't think AFI was directing his post to you....I have the same question.

It was said that JSS gets a free ride because he states how much he respects Perry. Well, Augeri did the same thing. It was said that JSS never openly critiqued Perry. I don't believe Augeri did either. So, saying the above are reasons JSS gets a free ride from Perry fans, while Augeri didn't, is a bit bogus to me....because they both acted in similar ways.