Perry, Sony, Solo vs. Jrny and the TBF Fall Out

[SF-Dano]

Also - it could be argued that the most damaging hiatus of all was between 1983 and 1986. This was a group decision - and one of the key reasons why the break went on for so long was that Schon decided to do HSAS and he set off a chain of negative consequences that delayed the new Journey album. Perry wasn't planning to do a a solo album until Schon started devoting himself to 'outside projects' after Frontiers, was he? But when Schon did...Perry thought...why can't I do that too?

Because, as Schon said in BTM, he was not setting out to make commercially success full albums. Now I tend to believe him when I listen to the type of music that came out of those side projects. You may not believe him, which is your rite. But, I don't think you can really say that the music was main stream. Even HSAS has some "out there stuff on it". It was Neal getting together to Jam with his friends and Peers. Perry's solo effort was to see how commercially successful he could be as a solo act.

And to me the Perry comment of (paraphrasing) "If Neal does it, it will only make me want to do one too" sounds a bit childish. "If he can have one Daddy, why cant I" whine, whine.

Yes - he treated it like a profession. I don't know about you - but I don't want to hang out with my work colleagues 24 hour hours a day and seven days a week. Perry was't into some adolescent notion of being in a gang. He did his job - blew everyone away - and tried to retain a private life during the years of relentless touring.

Nobody said anything about hanging out 24/7. Perry could have stuck around for some of the Meet and Greets, he could have done some of the flights with the other guys. It was, from all I have read, a complete seperation from everyone except for the sound checks and shows. And as far as an adolescent notion of being in gang, he was a member of a very very succesful rock band. He was a Rock Star, the relentless touring (par for the course at that time) and the fan appreciation are part of the job. He knew that. And yes, I may be being judgemental, but I hate "Rock Stars" who strive for fame and to be succesful, and when they get there can't handle it. If such is the case, say your thank yous and goodbyes, and step away. Perry stepped away, but never said goodbye. Again, had to leave that door adjar.

Journey released nine successful albums with Perry - spanning a twenty year period. That's an incredible "long haul" achievement for any band.

I count six albums before the first 10yr Hiatus. Greatest hits and live releases are music already in the can. Thats six studio albums in 9 years. I will admit by todays standards of time between realeses of 2,3, and 4yrs, it is not bad. I would not call it "an incredible long haul achievment for any band" however.

I wondered about this a lot, and I think I may even have mentioned it before, but I will again anyway. I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular, but it seems that the people who have professed to be glad Perry is out of Journey and were happier with Augeri are the same ones that seem to be the angriest at Perry for not being in the band. They're the ones that seem compelled to find every kind of fault they can in him. It's almost as if they're trying to justify being happier without him. If they're truly happy with the band without him, are they trying to crucify him for making them happy?

I am angered with Perry because I did like his vocal abilities. But I also am a huge fan of the rest of the guys in the band. He put the band on a ten year hiatus, because he was unwilling to communicate. If he wanted out of Journey, just tell them, everybody moves on and does what they want. As I said before, Perry had to leave that door adjar, and then when the rest decided to move on without him (re:Rollie/Chalfant reunion), he decides he wants back in, only to go incommunicato again after the album is released. Maybe if he had just told them in say 1988, that he was not going to return to Journey, we would have had a different line up and new Journey music between 1988 and 1996. The down years without communication are what angers me the most about Perry.

If Perry would decide today that he wanted back in to Journey, I pray that Neal and Jon would never accept it. That would truely be the end of Journey. We have already had the old saying "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. "

[ohsherrie]

I am angered with Perry because I did like his vocal abilities. But I also am a huge fan of the rest of the guys in the band. He put the band on a ten year hiatus, because he was unwilling to communicate. If he wanted out of Journey, just tell them, everybody moves on and does what they want. As I said before, Perry had to leave that door adjar, and then when the rest decided to move on without him (re:Rollie/Chalfant reunion), he decides he wants back in, only to go incommunicato again after the album is released. Maybe if he had just told them in say 1988, that he was not going to return to Journey, we would have had a different line up and new Journey music between 1988 and 1996. The down years without communication are what angers me the most about Perry.

If Perry would decide today that he wanted back in to Journey, I pray that Neal and Jon would never accept it. That would truely be the end of Journey. We have already had the old saying "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. "

OK, so you have a grudge against Perry and you want your feelings known. That's what these messageboards are really all about. By the same token though, the people who didn't want a Journey without Perry, or didn't want a Journey with Augeri or don't want a Journey with JSS, or have a grudge against the band for any one of a number of reasons also have a right to have their feelings known. It's all about Journey in one way or another. What I'm getting at is, if it's OK for some to rag on Perry it should be equally OK for others to rag on Augeri, JSS or Neil if they want to(not saying I want to do that anymore). What's good for one should be good for all since it's all basically different points of view about Journey.

I don't really think it's fair to any of these guys to criticize them in any way for personal decisions they've made based on their personal human motivations that we know absolutely nothing about. Someone starts throwing insults about Perry, then someone retaliates with an insult about Augeri, Neal or JSS and around and around and around we go. Been there, done that, not worth it in the end.

[Matthew]

Because, as Schon said in BTM, he was not setting out to make commercially success full albums. Now I tend to believe him when I listen to the type of music that came out of those side projects. You may not believe him, which is your rite. But, I don't think you can really say that the music was main stream.

I can agree that HSAS was a heavy rock band and not a Top 40 pop/rock band. But equally Schon wasn't teaming up with musicians from the local bar. He joined forces with...Sammy Hagar.

In '84, HSAS was being promoted quite heavily in the rock music press in the UK, at least. In fact, HSAS received more attention than Journey did here. Perhaps it was a different story in the US.

And to me the Perry comment of (paraphrasing) "If Neal does it, it will only make me want to do one too" sounds a bit childish. "If he can have one Daddy, why cant I" whine, whine.

Yes - it was either childish - or simply an excuse to do a project he was considering anyway. But there was whining on both sides. Didn't Schon go into a big sulk because he thought "Street Talk" sounded 'like Journey'?

And yes, I may be being judgemental, but I hate "Rock Stars" who strive for fame and to be succesful, and when they get there can't handle it.

You must hate A LOT of rock stars in that case, SF.

Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Moon, Bonham, Cash, Crosby...right up to Cobain and beyond..the list of rock stars whose mental health deteriorated when they found success is endless.

It seems you value 'professionalism' above all else...even over creativity and talent.

Which rock stars have behaved in a manner you find acceptable?

Journey released nine successful albums with Perry - spanning a twenty year period. That's an incredible "long haul" achievement for any band. I count six albums before the first 10yr Hiatus. Greatest hits and live releases are music already in the can. Thats six studio albums in 9 years. I will admit by todays standards of time between realeses of 2,3, and 4yrs, it is not bad. I would not call it "an incredible long haul achievment for any band" however.

Well, I would have loved Perry and Journey to have recorded more than seven studio albums togther - but it is nonethless a substantial body of work.

He put the band on a ten year hiatus, because he was unwilling to communicate. If he wanted out of Journey, just tell them, everybody moves on and does what they want.

Schon and Cain did move on and they had a successful career during the hiatus. It's interesting that you don't seem to resent them for devoting their energies to Bad English instead of doing whatever it took to keep Journey going. Perhaps you do though?

The down years without communication are what angers me the most about Perry.

There's no doubt that Perry has behaved in a frustrating and baffling way at times.

What's sad though is that you've allowed the internal politics within the band to limit your appreciation of what Perry brought to the band. Journey were incredibly fortunate to have had one of the most extraordinary vocalists in the history of rock singing and writing music for them.

Yes, Perry was incredibly fortunate to have been in Journey too - but surely it's better to feel grateful for the timeless music we did get instead of resentful that we didn't get enough music during the Perry era?

[Deb]

And yes, I may be being judgemental, but I hate "Rock Stars" who strive for fame and to be succesful, and when they get there can't handle it.

You must hate A LOT of rock stars in that case, SF.

Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Moon, Bonham, Cash, Crosby...right up to Cobain and beyond..the list of rock stars whose mental health deteriorated when they found success is endless.

It seems you value 'professionalism' above all else...even over creativity and talent.

Which rock stars have behaved in a manner you find acceptable?

Wow true Matt, food for thought. Great dialogue guys.....interesting.

[Matthew]

And yes, I may be being judgemental, but I hate "Rock Stars" who strive for fame and to be succesful, and when they get there can't handle it.

You must hate A LOT of rock stars in that case, SF.

Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Moon, Bonham, Cash, Crosby...right up to Cobain and beyond..the list of rock stars whose mental health deteriorated when they found success is endless.

It seems you value 'professionalism' above all else...even over creativity and talent.

Which rock stars have behaved in a manner you find acceptable?

Wow true Matt, food for thought. Great dialogue guys.....interesting.

Yes Deb - except I guess it could be argued that all the rock stars I mentioned were addicts and alcoholics - and Perry wasn't. His long 'absent' periods would be so much easier to comprehend if he had been...

[NealIsGod]

And yes, I may be being judgemental, but I hate "Rock Stars" who strive for fame and to be succesful, and when they get there can't handle it.

You must hate A LOT of rock stars in that case, SF.

Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Moon, Bonham, Cash, Crosby...right up to Cobain and beyond..the list of rock stars whose mental health deteriorated when they found success is endless.

It seems you value 'professionalism' above all else...even over creativity and talent.

Which rock stars have behaved in a manner you find acceptable?

Wow true Matt, food for thought. Great dialogue guys.....interesting.

Yes Deb - except I guess it could be argued that all the rock stars I mentioned were addicts and alcoholics - and Perry wasn't. His long 'absent' periods would be so much easier to comprehend if he had been...

How do you know he isn't?

[Matthew]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

[NealIsGod]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

[Deb]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

True enough, and there is also all kinds of rumours surrounding the ROR days. I love his stage presence (energy) on the ROR stuff, but something definately different from say the Frontiers.

[Matthew]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

There's no doubt that secrecy is a key feature of any addiction - and that addicts/alcoholics are expert deceivers - but it's rare for any celebritity (and indeed non-celebritry) to sustain an addiction in the long-term and then go through the recovery process without the story leaking out.

As for the celebrities you are referring to, NIG...well, you are aware they are battling addictions even if the majority of people aren't. So the story must have leaked out somewhere...

[Matthew]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

True enough, and there is also all kinds of rumours surrounding the ROR days. I love his stage presence (energy) on the ROR stuff, but something definately different from say the Frontiers.

Deb - are you referring to the 'bug-eyed stare' which seemed more pronounced in the ROR videos compared to the ones from Frontiers?

[NealIsGod]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

There's no doubt that secrecy is a key feature of any addiction - and that addicts/alcoholics are expert deceivers - but it's rare for any celebritity (and indeed non-celebritry) to sustain an addiction in the long-term and then go through the recovery process without the story leaking out.

As for the celebrities you are referring to, NIG...well, you are aware they are battling addictions even if the majority of people aren't. So the story must have leaked out somewhere...

My nephew is in the movie industry and told me lots of things about lots of celebs, none of it public knowledge.

[Deb]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

True enough, and there is also all kinds of rumours surrounding the ROR days. I love his stage presence (energy) on the ROR stuff, but something definately different from say the Frontiers.

Deb - are you referring to the 'bug-eyed stare' which seemed more pronounced in the ROR videos compared to the ones from Frontiers?

LOL, he did seem a bit more shall we say......frantic....in some of the ROR vids.

[Deb]

How do you know he isn't?

Oh...I don't know that he isn't, NIG...I was just assuming that because it's unlikely that he would have been able to hide a serious drug or alcohol addiction for long...

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

There's no doubt that secrecy is a key feature of any addiction - and that addicts/alcoholics are expert deceivers - but it's rare for any celebritity (and indeed non-celebritry) to sustain an addiction in the long-term and then go through the recovery process without the story leaking out.

As for the celebrities you are referring to, NIG...well, you are aware they are battling addictions even if the majority of people aren't. So the story must have leaked out somewhere...

My nephew is in the movie industry and told me lots of things about lots of celebs, none of it public knowledge.

True NIG, I think we'd all be surprised at who some of the recovered alcolohics are.

[Matthew]

My nephew is in the movie industry and told me lots of things about lots of celebs, none of it public knowledge.

Also - it's worth mentioning that anonymity is central to the 12 Step recovery groups - and many celebs form their own groups to avoid gossip. Plus there are the fearsome publicists who control and shape the public persona.

I guess that I'm skeptical about the 'addict Perry' theory because there is so much speculation about the guy and drug addiction is rarely mentioned as a reason for Perry's behaviour. Surely someone at some point with industry connections would have let it slip?

In fact the only time I've read any insider account of Perry's drug use was that Herbie Herbert interview about Perry's tendency to "Shanghai" his friends and colleagues for drugs by threatening to tell their parents if they didn't hand over the stash. But HH was talking Perry as a young guy in the mid 1970s...and HH hasn't referred to drug abuse after he joined Journey.

But maybe there have been loads of drug-related rumours over the years and I just haven't heard them yet?

[Deb]

My nephew is in the movie industry and told me lots of things about lots of celebs, none of it public knowledge.

Also - it's worth mentioning that anonymity is central to the 12 Step recovery groups - and many celebs form their own groups to avoid gossip. Plus there are the fearsome publicists who control and shape the public persona.

I guess that I'm skeptical about the 'addict Perry' theory because there is so much speculation about the guy and drug addiction is rarely mentioned as a reason for Perry's behaviour. Surely someone at some point with industry connections would have let it slip?

In fact the only time I've read any insider account of Perry's drug use was that Herbie Herbert interview about Perry's tendency to "Shanghai" his friends and colleagues for drugs by threatening to tell their parents if they didn't hand over the stash. But HH was talking Perry as a young guy in the mid 1970s...and HH hasn't referred to drug abuse after he joined Journey.

But maybe there have been loads of drug-related rumours over the years and I just haven't heard them yet?

I actually don't think he had a 'drug' problem. Sure he probably smoked the odd doobie back in his youth.....but didn't we all.

[SF-Dano]

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

Give us the scoop, NIG. Enquiring minds want to know.

[boodles]

You'd be surprised. Lots of celebs are battling addictions that the general public doesn't know about.

I agree with you. So many people over the years seem to think that Steve lived as a hermit and never came out ...until recently. He was living VERY under the radar. The "gag" order that seems to be on the band, or how protective people seem to be of him when asked questions about him. Ever wonder why?

The first thing a friend of mine said when he saw the ROR footage was "shit is he wired!"
And this is coming from a former addict.

[SF-Dano]

You must hate A LOT of rock stars in that case, SF.

Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Moon, Bonham, Cash, Crosby...right up to Cobain and beyond..the list of rock stars whose mental health deteriorated when they found success is endless.

It seems you value 'professionalism' above all else...even over creativity and talent.

Which rock stars have behaved in a manner you find acceptable?

I guess I may take the Perry/Journey situation a little more personally because they are and always have been my favorite band. While I do enjoy the music of the others you listed, except for Cobain, I haven't invested as much personal feelings and passion for their music as I have with Journey. If that makes sense. So yes, I may be holding Perry and Journey to a higher standard. This may not be fair, but it is the way I feel. I had very briefly met Neal Schon and Gregg Rollie once when I was a young boy of 8 years old. Fell in love with the music soon after, and to this day love this band.

I assume that Journey/SP is, if not one of, our favorite artists and that is why we are all here and have such strong pasionate opinions.

I try to remember that it is just music, but sometimes, as in this thread, passion overtakes perspective.

[Deb]

You must hate A LOT of rock stars in that case, SF.

Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix, Morrison, Joplin, Moon, Bonham, Cash, Crosby...right up to Cobain and beyond..the list of rock stars whose mental health deteriorated when they found success is endless.

It seems you value 'professionalism' above all else...even over creativity and talent.

Which rock stars have behaved in a manner you find acceptable?

I guess I may take the Perry/Journey situation a little more personally because they are and always have been my favorite band. While I do enjoy the music of the others you listed, except for Cobain, I haven't invested as much personal feelings and passion for their music as I have with Journey. If that makes sense. So yes, I may be holding Perry and Journey to a higher standard. This may not be fair, but it is the way I feel. I had very briefly met Neal Schon and Gregg Rollie once when I was a young boy of 8 years old. Fell in love with the music soon after, and to this day love this band.

I assume that Journey/SP is, if not one of, our favorite artists and that is why we are all here and have such strong pasionate opinions.

I try to remember that it is just music, but sometimes, as in this thread, passion overtakes perspective.

Fully agree with your post SF. Passion for the music isn't a bad thing at all. Everybody's got a vice, I'd much rather abandon myself to music than booze or drugs........hell of alot healthier.

[yak]

I actually don't think he had a 'drug' problem. Sure he probably smoked the odd doobie back in his youth.....but didn't we all.

You know, I get sick and tired of comments like these...Just because one person did some kind of drug is no reason to drag everybody else into it, assuming that because YOU did something, the rest of the world must have done it. And before you get bent out of shape, realize that I would have reacted this way to anybody who posted this.

As for Perry not being a druggie, (didn't you JUST say everybody did it?) he probably had a gag order put into place for all concerned. It wouldn't be the first time.

I love the way you rationalize when it's convenient.

[ArnelRox]

The first thing a friend of mine said when he saw the ROR footage was "shit is he wired!"
And this is coming from a former addict.

Maybe he was wired on drugs. Maybe he was wired on the music. Maybe he was wired on life. I work a lot of hours & drink a lot of coffee. I've had people ask me if I was on drugs b/c I'm high energy. Apart from smoking a little pot in college, I never did any other drugs. I took painkillers when in pain, but they certainly wouldn't wire me up. Don't judge a book by its cover. We'll never know if Perry did or didn't do drugs. & what does it matter anyway? He made some great music & did an incredible tour schedule for many yrs. All the rest is personal.

[yak]

The first thing a friend of mine said when he saw the ROR footage was "shit is he wired!"
And this is coming from a former addict.

Maybe he was wired on drugs. Maybe he was wired on the music. Maybe he was wired on life. I work a lot of hours & drink a lot of coffee. I've had people ask me if I was on drugs b/c I'm high energy. Apart from smoking a little pot in college, I never did any other drugs. I took painkillers when in pain, but they certainly wouldn't wire me up. Don't judge a book by its cover. We'll never know if Perry did or didn't do drugs. & what does it matter anyway? He made some great music & did an incredible tour schedule for many yrs. All the rest is personal.

Drinking coffee, living life, or being wired on music, don't make your eyes glow.

In the ROR documentary he talked about "ending up on the side of the road in the weeds somewhere." But wait! He must have been talking about somebody else!

[bluejeangirl76]

Yeah dude, Steve Perry got nervous about being in the band he was in for 9 fucking years? That's it, he was nervous.

What is wrong with you people?

Exactly, RD. Thank you. "Nervous." Ok.

Just to add to the discussion here, and by the way, don't let the avatar
<--------- fool you. Yes I'm a big fan, but no, I'm not wearing Stevie-colored glasses.
Clearly the whole TBF situation was well past screwed up before it even got off the ground.
Did he agree to do it with the specific intention of screwing everyone over? Maybe.

But what ended up happening is that both sides ended up screwing themselves over.
I know everyone has their theories about the Mystery of the Hip Surgery, but my reasoning is based on the hip thing being real and not an excuse to bail out on the tour. I believe it really happened.

Although, this does present an interesting scenario in that walking away with a big F.U. and a smile would probably have gotten him sued six ways to Sunday, but getting the band to throw down the gauntlet on him gave him and his bank account an out by way of saying "I didn't quit...they fired me" and theyby also screwing them over in the process. Hmm. Just an idea.

However, I still maintain the hip thing was real so on that basis, the problem was egos all around. I've heard a certain founding band member make comments to the effect of being just that, a founding member..."I started this band, it's mine...." blah blah.

This may be true, but you were also a very broke and starving founding member until a certain meal ticket showed up around 1977 and made you more cash than you ever dreamed of, so when said meal ticket comes back to the band when no one thought it would ever happen, and the cash begins to flow again in the form of a #3 album, a top 10 single and a grammy nomination, you do not, I repeat do not, tell said meal ticket what he is or is not going to do about his injury. If you are a smart founding band member, you are going to realize that, like it or not, waiting around for one titanium hip is going to earn you many platinum albums and you are going to shut the fuck up and make with the support and friendship PDQ. You do not bite the hand that quite literally feeds you.

On the contrary, if you are said meal ticket, you need to put your ego aside and get behind the words you yourself wrote in the form of a little song called "Anyway" (brothers til the end? really?) and you are going to make with whatever it is that's necessary to get your ass back on that stage, as you yourself walked around all during the end of 1996 telling the whole world you were going to do, and worry about getting your retribution on Sony another time and in another way because you are about to fuck over 4 people that had nothing to do with Against The W... er...I mean .. "your project", getting squashed and need not be made to pay for it (that is assuming the original scenario in this thread holds truth to it, and I'm not saying it does or doesn't, just using it as one of the possibilities). It's clear than on both sides of this mayhem, all forms of respect and friendship went straight to hell.

Not that I have an opinion.

[donnaplease]

Great post!

[Deb]

I actually don't think he had a 'drug' problem. Sure he probably smoked the odd doobie back in his youth.....but didn't we all.

You know, I get sick and tired of comments like these...Just because one person did some kind of drug is no reason to drag everybody else into it, assuming that because YOU did something, the rest of the world must have done it. And before you get bent out of shape, realize that I would have reacted this way to anybody who posted this.

As for Perry not being a druggie, (didn't you JUST say everybody did it?) he probably had a gag order put into place for all concerned. It wouldn't be the first time.

I love the way you rationalize when it's convenient.

Holy shit Yak, you have to be one of the most anal-retentive people I've come across, especially for this board. Did you not notice the laughing smilie after my comment. And for gawwwd sakes it was the 70s and 80s, many people tried smoking weed.

That is where we differ I guess I don't consider somebody who smoked the odd joint in the 70s/80s a "druggie/drug addict". When I think "drug addict", I think more along the lines of hard drugs like Coke, etc........but that is just my opinion.