Rumsfeld Stepping Down

[conversationpc]

They have yet to state what the plan really is. We have waited along time to hear their plan. They only say it's a different course. You gotta tell me more than that.

That's the main problem between the soon-to-be Democratic-controlled Congress and the Republican one that was overwhelmingly elected in 1994. They had a gameplan (Contract for America) and actually followed through on carrying it out. The libs just elected did not run on nor do they have a cohesive plan like that. That's a big disadvantage as compared to "Just say no" to the Bush policies.

[dcvader]

They have yet to state what the plan really is. We have waited along time to hear their plan. They only say it's a different course. You gotta tell me more than that.

That's the main problem between the soon-to-be Democratic-controlled Congress and the Republican one that was overwhelmingly elected in 1994. They had a gameplan (Contract for America) and actually followed through on carrying it out. The libs just elected did not run on nor do they have a cohesive plan like that. That's a big disadvantage as compared to "Just say no" to the Bush policies.

Agree 100%

[conversationpc]

Why would that be?
Rumsfeld never provided enough US troops on the ground to conclusively whoop them.
If anything, the terrorists would be fearful that the new Secretary will actually get the job done.

Stop the world and let me off! I actually agree with TNC on something.

Some of the most vocal Dems against the patriot act like Russ Feingold, want to modify the act.
Not destroy it.

Agreed again.

At this point I'd tell u to shut off Sean Hannity, but you're brain is clearly far too damaged.
You didn't stop at drinking the Kool-Aid, u took off your clothes and dove head first into the punchbowl.

[Eric]

terroists are happy that #1 Rummys out...

Why would that be?
Rumsfeld never provided enough US troops on the ground to conclusively whoop them.
If anything, the terrorists would be fearful that the new Secretary will actually get the job done.

I think he meant that the terrorist hope that the new Liberal power will allow them to push us over like we're Spain. I am not concerned with Democrats per say...but cunts like Pelosi and Hillary are just bad for this country. They don't like the USA, and they want to change it.

2nd the terrorists will be happy the democrats are in control... bye bye patriot act...

Some of the most vocal Dems against the patriot act like Russ Feingold, want to modify the act.
Not destroy it.

Slight modifications are needed.

and raise our taxes... oh boy---thats what I want... OH yea... from Howard Deano

Dean's a loony piece of shit...and how else will the Dems pay for their Socialistic entitlement Utopia. That cuunt Hillary still wants Universal Health Care. Memo to Hillary....there are 300 million US residents, and the average cost of insuring an average person is over 7k per year....where the fuck is the government gonna get 2.5 trillion dollars to pay for everyone's health care?????

[ohsherrie]

Thank you to ALL the Monday morning QB's.


The one thing that I dont understand is why wait until AFTER yesterdays elections to step down????

I don't get that either Yogi? I guess they just wanted to take the first shot in muffling the BS inquiries the Dems will be initiating in January...

BS inquiries? I think it's more likely that they're trying to dodge the investigations that the Republicans can no longer control. They've conducted their own "investigations" into every allegation that's come up in the last 6 years and given themselves a free ride. I think the free pass is over and they know it. Hell, Carl Rove is still there when they all know he leaked the name of the CIA operative. The war is a lot bigger issue and they're afraid the Dems might sweep the truth out from under that rug in the oval office.

Appointing a replacement for Rummy also gives them a cushion of time to avoid any action suggested by the Dem congress. They can always say the new guy needs time to settle in before decisions can be made.

[whocares]

I get the feeling more people will resign before the Dems take over.

One of the smartest things Colin Powell did was to get out when he did. And he did a LOT of smart things in his time. With the exception of having a jackass son that was named head of the FCC. Not that it's totally his fault his son was named head of the FCC.

[The_Noble_Cause]

One of the smartest things Colin Powell did was to get out when he did.

Actually, he was fired.

[conversationpc]

BS inquiries? I think it's more likely that they're trying to dodge the investigations that the Republicans can no longer control. They've conducted their own "investigations" into every allegation that's come up in the last 6 years and given themselves a free ride. I think the free pass is over and they know it.

There has been lots of stuff that hasn't been investigated, including all the crap the Clintons stole from the White House when they moved out, not to mention the damage done to the building itself. Bush also stonewalled the investigation into Democrat William Jefferson's crooked dealings.

Hell, Carl Rove is still there when they all know he leaked the name of the CIA operative. The war is a lot bigger issue and they're afraid the Dems might sweep the truth out from under that rug in the oval office.

No, they don't all know Carl Rove leaked Plame's name. First, we now know that she wasn't even a covert agent at the time her name was leaked, which means it wasn't really a crime in the first place. That's why Scooter Libby wasn't charged with that crime but with lying to a jury. Secondly, the prosecutor in that case knew from the very beginning that the person who actually "leaked" the name was Richard Armitage who, if I remember correctly, was on Dick Cheney's staff. So, as much as you'd love to see Carl Rove take the fall for this, it's just not going to happen because the evidence shows that he wasn't involved. If he was, I'm sure the Democratic attack machine would have found a way to link him to it by now.

Appointing a replacement for Rummy also gives them a cushion of time to avoid any action suggested by the Dem congress. They can always say the new guy needs time to settle in before decisions can be made.

Smart decision, in my opinion, though I'm sure the current Democrats will try their best to stretch it out as long as is humanly possible.

[Rockindeano]

All I am going to say to you all is this.............


I am so fucking ecstatic that the GOP and all Its' cronies got raped dry in the ass, that I am going to rub one off each time we fly over a red state tonight. Arizona, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia and finally NC....I am going to have a sore right arm tomorrow morning.

AR, you get the Blue food colouring? I am going to piss Stu's Name outside, tomorrow night.

As for Virgina, that is over. Don't sweat it.

[Natalie]

All I am going to say to you all is this.............


I am so fucking ecstatic that the GOP and all Its' cronies got raped dry in the ass, that I am going to rub one off each time we fly over a red state tonight. Arizona, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia and finally NC....I am going to have a sore right arm tomorrow morning.

AR, you get the Blue food colouring? I am going to piss Stu's Name outside, tomorrow night.

As for Virgina, that is over. Don't sweat it.

Hey Deano-what airline are you flying on and which seat will you be in? I want to make sure that when I fly out tomorrow I'm not sitting in the same seat that you could have been "rubbing one out" in

[ohsherrie]

There has been lots of stuff that hasn't been investigated, including all the crap the Clintons stole from the White House when they moved out, not to mention the damage done to the building itself. Bush also stonewalled the investigation into Democrat William Jefferson's crooked dealings.

Oh yeah Dave, like the stuff that may have been taken from the house equates with jeopardizing National Security.(Sort of like Clinton lying about a sexual affair equates with Bush lying about Iraq?) Bush(or Rove) has stonewalled a lot more than those crooked dealings. The Republican regime has stonewalled every significant investigation into their own dealings for six years. It's time for a real two party system rather than a ruling class in this country.

No, they don't all know Carl Rove leaked Plame's name. First, we now know that she wasn't even a covert agent at the time her name was leaked, which means it wasn't really a crime in the first place. That's why Scooter Libby wasn't charged with that crime but with lying to a jury. Secondly, the prosecutor in that case knew from the very beginning that the person who actually "leaked" the name was Richard Armitage who, if I remember correctly, was on Dick Cheney's staff. So, as much as you'd love to see Carl Rove take the fall for this, it's just not going to happen because the evidence shows that he wasn't involved. If he was, I'm sure the Democratic attack machine would have found a way to link him to it by now.

The evidence as manipulated by the Republicans may not point to Rove but every intelligent American who's followed this case knows it came from him. He's been manipulating the American people's perception of the truth for six years. I have no doubt that Bush, Cheney and Rove decided exactly how to manage this situation and manipulated the information that they allowed the public to have accordingly. After all, the investigation was run by them. There has been no Democratic attack machine that could possibly compare with the witch hunt against Clinton that couldn't find anything that pertained to the way he was governing this country.

So her possibly not being active at the time makes it OK to put her life in jeopardy?

Smart decision, in my opinion, though I'm sure the current Democrats will try their best to stretch it out as long as is humanly possible.

I'm sure you think it was a smart decision, but whatever the Dems do will be in the best interest of the people of this country rather than covering up Bush's catastrophic blunders.

[journeywoman]

HOT DAM THE DEMS., JUST TOOK VA!

[JrnySuxBalls]

Thank you Mark Foley.

[ohsherrie]

HOT DAM THE DEMS., JUST TOOK VA!

OMG!! I don't have the TV on. Where did you hear this?

[JrnySuxBalls]

Sweet. AP just called it.

[ohsherrie]

Sweet. AP just called it.

GREAT!! This may be the first time I've ever really felt proud of living here.

(in Virginia that is, not the country)

[journeywoman]

BREAKING NEWS ON CBS

[Crazie Scarab]

The thing is, the Republicans didn't deserve to win this time around. They didn't earn it.

[conversationpc]

The Republican regime has stonewalled every significant investigation into their own dealings for six years. It's time for a real two party system rather than a ruling class in this country.

If that's the case, it's no different than what happened during the Clinton administration. If you're going to make those kinds of accusations, you have to be ready to accept the same in return.

The evidence as manipulated by the Republicans may not point to Rove but every intelligent American who's followed this case knows it came from him. He's been manipulating the American people's perception of the truth for six years. I have no doubt that Bush, Cheney and Rove decided exactly how to manage this situation and manipulated the information that they allowed the public to have accordingly. After all, the investigation was run by them. There has been no Democratic attack machine that could possibly compare with the witch hunt against Clinton that couldn't find anything that pertained to the way he was governing this country.

So her possibly not being active at the time makes it OK to put her life in jeopardy?

It's not a federal crime to "out" a CIA agent who is no longer covert. It's as simple as that. Plame wasn't covert at the time her name was "outed" and hadn't been for some time. Knowing that, even if Rove was involved, then why are you so up in arms about it? Do you have evidence of the Republicans "manipulating" the facts in this case? Of course you don't because they don't exist. If Karl Rove had anything to do with it, as much as you leftists hate him, it would've come out. The fact is, you don't have the evidence and your hatred for anything related to Bush or Rove is so blinding that you can't accept that the guy is not guilty.

You know, during Clinton's administraton, there was all this talk going around about how the Clintons were involved in the mysterious deaths of dozens of people they were associated with. There were many conservative morons, myself included at the time, who bought into that simply because they hated Clinton. The "evidence" seemed to indicate that they were guilty and we just knew that something illegal was going on. This situation with Rove and the irrational hatred for Bush is the exact same thing. The only difference is that you and other libs aren't willing to admit it.

I'm sure you think it was a smart decision, but whatever the Dems do will be in the best interest of the people of this country rather than covering up Bush's catastrophic blunders.

Again, with the war in Iraq, we can argue that point all day and you may have a point but you have yet to give Bush credit for the strong economy we're in right now. If I as a conservative can give Clinton credit for the strong economy during his administration, why do you continue to not give Bush any credit for anything during his presidency? It's really rather hypocritical.

[ohsherrie]

The Republican regime has stonewalled every significant investigation into their own dealings for six years. It's time for a real two party system rather than a ruling class in this country.

If that's the case, it's no different than what happened during the Clinton administration. If you're going to make those kinds of accusations, you have to be ready to accept the same in return.

Well yeah, but the accusations during the Clinton admin had nothing to do with National Security. They were moralistic BS intended to stir up the evangelical right wing, which they did. How do the evangelicals look now? Talk about hypocrites.

It's not a federal crime to "out" a CIA agent who is no longer covert. It's as simple as that. Plame wasn't covert at the time her name was "outed" and hadn't been for some time. Knowing that, even if Rove was involved, then why are you so up in arms about it? Do you have evidence of the Republicans "manipulating" the facts in this case? Of course you don't because they don't exist. If Karl Rove had anything to do with it, as much as you leftists hate him, it would've come out. The fact is, you don't have the evidence and your hatred for anything related to Bush or Rove is so blinding that you can't accept that the guy is not guilty.

No Dave, you're the one who is rationalizing here. Even if the outing of this woman wasn't a crime legally, it was a crime against this country.

Of course I don't have evidence of the manipulation of the facts. No one does because there is no evidence available. We're talking about the most powerful people in the world. Do you think they would leave a trail of evidence? They've been able to do whatever they damn well please because they've controlled every branch of our Government. They learned a lot from the Nixon debacle. Leave no trail.

You know, during Clinton's administraton, there was all this talk going around about how the Clintons were involved in the mysterious deaths of dozens of people they were associated with. There were many conservative morons, myself included at the time, who bought into that simply because they hated Clinton. The "evidence" seemed to indicate that they were guilty and we just knew that something illegal was going on. This situation with Rove and the irrational hatred for Bush is the exact same thing. The only difference is that you and other libs aren't willing to admit it.

Again you're reaching beyond the bounds of rationality. Whatever these rumors were that you're talking about they sound like tabloid sensationalism. The things I'm talking about are real issues that effect the daily lives of the people of this country and our National Security.

Again, with the war in Iraq, we can argue that point all day and you may have a point but you have yet to give Bush credit for the strong economy we're in right now. If I as a conservative can give Clinton credit for the strong economy during his administration, why do you continue to not give Bush any credit for anything during his presidency? It's really rather hypocritical.

Not hypocritical at all. I just don't judge the economy using the same criteria that you do. I look at what's really happening to the majority of the people of this country. I haven't seen a single thing during this administration to feel good about. He was doing OK in the war against terrorists until he used it as an excuse to go into Iraq. That was his personal battle about his dad and oil. He's the most corrupt President in my lifetime and hopefully history will reflect that.

[conversationpc]

Well yeah, but the accusations during the Clinton admin had nothing to do with National Security. They were moralistic BS intended to stir up the evangelical right wing, which they did. How do the evangelicals look now? Talk about hypocrites.

Your rhetoric is really just as bad as what you claim the Republicans are using. Saying that evangelicals, of which I am one, are all hypocrites, or even inferring it, is beyond the pale. You should know better than that.

No Dave, you're the one who is rationalizing here. Even if the outing of this woman wasn't a crime legally, it was a crime against this country.

Tell that to Joe Wilson himself AND Valerie Plame. It's well-known that they weren't exactly tight-lipped about her supposed covert status at the time.

Of course I don't have evidence of the manipulation of the facts. No one does because there is no evidence available. We're talking about the most powerful people in the world. Do you think they would leave a trail of evidence? They've been able to do whatever they damn well please because they've controlled every branch of our Government. They learned a lot from the Nixon debacle. Leave no trail.

You don't have the evidence because there is none. For all of this to be true, the Republicans would have to be a whole heck of a lot smarter than you give them credit for. Listening to you, one would think that Republicans are all numbskulls who bumble everything their hands touch. You gotta love conspiracy nuts.

Again you're reaching beyond the bounds of rationality. Whatever these rumors were that you're talking about they sound like tabloid sensationalism. The things I'm talking about are real issues that effect the daily lives of the people of this country and our National Security.

The sensationalism you're talking about included the circumstances surrounding the death of Vince Foster. That's not just sensationalism. That's a real, dead person. The conspiracy theories then were just as nutty as yours are now.

Not hypocritical at all. I just don't judge the economy using the same criteria that you do. I look at what's really happening to the majority of the people of this country. I haven't seen a single thing during this administration to feel good about.

I'm sorry to say it but if you can't admit to a single good thing during this administration to feel good about, not a single thing, then you are not being honest. It's as simple as that.

One final question...Are you one of those nutjobs that believes Bush, Cheney, or both were behind what happened on 9/11?

[AR]

AR, you get the Blue food colouring? I am going to piss Stu's Name outside, tomorrow night.

Nope. I am an independent who leans Libertarian. I have formerly been registered both Democrat and Republican.

The Republicans turned into Democrats recently by buying into big government. The only thing government should do is build roads, weapons, and stay the fuck out of the bedroom.

Half the problems in the Middle East stemmed long before Bush, and Clinton shares equal if not more blame.

The Democratic party sucks shit too and has no answers either. "Just blame Bush" was their only platform.

Politics suck - all big money. I'd rather get loaded and watch some porn.

[yulog]

All I am going to say to you all is this.............


I am so fucking ecstatic that the GOP and all Its' cronies got raped dry in the ass, that I am going to rub one off each time we fly over a red state tonight. Arizona, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia and finally NC....I am going to have a sore right arm tomorrow morning.

AR, you get the Blue food colouring? I am going to piss Stu's Name outside, tomorrow night.

As for Virgina, that is over. Don't sweat it.

Hey Deano-what airline are you flying on and which seat will you be in? I want to make sure that when I fly out tomorrow I'm not sitting in the same seat that you could have been "rubbing one out" in

not bad Natalie

[yak]

That cuunt Hillary still wants Universal Health Care. Memo to Hillary....there are 300 million US residents, and the average cost of insuring an average person is over 7k per year....where the fuck is the government gonna get 2.5 trillion dollars to pay for everyone's health care?????

American Evita wants to give Social Security to illegal aliens. Not to mention that she slithered her way into New York by having illegals vote for her. Her home was bought and paid for by a rich upstater. She's done absolutely nothing for New York, except to stick her nose into everything, then try to take credit when something good happens.

[Rockindeano]

One of the smartest things Colin Powell did was to get out when he did.

Actually, he was fired.

No no he was not.

Colin Powell was this countries' greatest ever soldier. He walked onto the floor of the United Nations and delivered the boldest of lies his boss ordered him to; Resolution 1441. He was so sick, he left this shit Administration to keep what dignity and self respect to himself he could muster. This is one guy who would win the presidency hands down, against anyone.

Notice you don't see the "hawks" around anylonger?

Wolfowitz, gone. Heading up the World bank. Who was the genius behind that hire?

Rumsfeld; "Uh, we got our heads beat in last night. I am outta here."

Rice; Where is the buck toothed princess? Hiding from this pathetic record of "War."

Soon to be departed; Bush and Dick. Get the fuck out of here and let us save our country and the rest of the world.

[Eric]

I think we can all agree that Colin Powell would make a great president....

[conversationpc]

No no he was not.

Colin Powell was this countries' greatest ever soldier. He walked onto the floor of the United Nations and delivered the boldest of lies his boss ordered him to; Resolution 1441. He was so sick, he left this shit Administration to keep what dignity and self respect to himself he could muster. This is one guy who would win the presidency hands down, against anyone.

Notice you don't see the "hawks" around anylonger?

Wolfowitz, gone. Heading up the World bank. Who was the genius behind that hire?

Rumsfeld; "Uh, we got our heads beat in last night. I am outta here."

Rice; Where is the buck toothed princess? Hiding from this pathetic record of "War."

Soon to be departed; Bush and Dick. Get the fuck out of here and let us save our country and the rest of the world.

Some of the things you say are really dumb but I'll agree with you that Powell would make a good President. I disagree with him on some issues but the guy is a leader.

[dcvader]

Agreed Hillary is a **** and Colin Powell would make a great president.

As AR said get loaded and watch porn!!!!!! Yeah baby.

[ohsherrie]

Your rhetoric is really just as bad as what you claim the Republicans are using. Saying that evangelicals, of which I am one, are all hypocrites, or even inferring it, is beyond the pale. You should know better than that.

I didn't say ALL evangelicals. I was talking about those to whom my comment applies.

Tell that to Joe Wilson himself AND Valerie Plame. It's well-known that they weren't exactly tight-lipped about her supposed covert status at the time.

What Joe Wilson and his wife did or didn't do isn't the point and I think you know it. The point is that the Bush administration used underhanded tactics to punish these Americans for trying to discredit the claims the administration was using to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then Bush swore he would find the leak and get the person responsible out of his White House. Then when the leak was found, he, Cheney and Rove devised a way to muddy up the evidence enough to allow him to wiggle out of that promise. Who was going to clean up the evidence enough to make the picture clear when they were running the investigation themselves?

You don't have the evidence because there is none. For all of this to be true, the Republicans would have to be a whole heck of a lot smarter than you give them credit for. Listening to you, one would think that Republicans are all numbskulls who bumble everything their hands touch. You gotta love conspiracy nuts.

No, I never said they were stupid. I said they are serving their own interests more than the interests of the majority of the people of this country. Bush is a bumbler, but he's been surrounded by so many slick operators that someone always catches him and cleans him up after he trips up.

The sensationalism you're talking about included the circumstances surrounding the death of Vince Foster. That's not just sensationalism. That's a real, dead person. The conspiracy theories then were just as nutty as yours are now.

I don't know what all that was really about and I'm sorry it happened to that man. However, that one real, dead person somehow doesn't have quite the impact on this country as the thousands of deaths in Iraq.

I'm sorry to say it but if you can't admit to a single good thing during this administration to feel good about, not a single thing, then you are not being honest. It's as simple as that.

But I am being completely honest. There is nothing that I feel good about in this administration. I don't know what it is that you think I should feel good about. Nothing in my life or the lives of anyone that I personally know has improved because of anything they've done. In many cases their lives have been adversly effected by their policies.

One final question...Are you one of those nutjobs that believes Bush, Cheney, or both were behind what happened on 9/11?

Of course I don't think that and I don't know of anyone who does. I do however think they used the aftershock to their advantage for getting into Iraq.

[conversationpc]

I didn't say ALL evangelicals. I was talking about those to whom my comment applies.

Point taken.

What Joe Wilson and his wife did or didn't do isn't the point and I think you know it. The point is that the Bush administration used underhanded tactics to punish these Americans for trying to discredit the claims the administration was using to justify the invasion of Iraq. Then Bush swore he would find the leak and get the person responsible out of his White House. Then when the leak was found, he, Cheney and Rove devised a way to muddy up the evidence enough to allow him to wiggle out of that promise. Who was going to clean up the evidence enough to make the picture clear when they were running the investigation themselves?

Of course they were trying to discredit them. Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame is/were anti-Bush liberals who lied about his supposed trip to Africa and the "evidence" or lack thereof that was uncovered because of it.

But I am being completely honest. There is nothing that I feel good about in this administration. I don't know what it is that you think I should feel good about. Nothing in my life or the lives of anyone that I personally know has improved because of anything they've done. In many cases their lives have been adversly effected by their policies.

Regardless of how you or those you know are doing financially, the country as a whole is doing better economically than we were six years ago. The same sources that were used to justify a good economy during Clinton's administration are showing a strong economy now. That's not Republican spin manipulating the numbers. It can't be denied. You know, I wasn't doing so hot financially during the Clinton administration, either. I got laid off from jobs two or three times and my income was cut basically in half for awhile. I couldn't afford to pay all my bills. I could very easily have gotten angry and blamed it all on Clinton and his administration like you're doing with Bush. I took responsibility for my own life and, by the grace of God, managed to pull myself up by the bootstraps and quit being a complaining weasel and make a go of it. It still isn't easy and there are struggles but any financial troubles I ever find myself in from here on out will be by my own doing, not Bush's or any other politician.

Of course I don't think that and I don't know of anyone who does. I do however think they used the aftershock to their advantage for getting into Iraq.

Well, at least you're not totally nutty. I can't say the same for some others around here, on this subject at least.