Stupid tape gate discussion

[Saint John]

Passing out blame for the charade that was Journey in 2005-part of 2006 (or whenever it started) is hard. But for the hell of it, here's my two cents. For a long time....30+ years, Journey prided itself on being live. Probably as close to 100% live as ANYONE in the business. That said, money clouded judgment. 5 guys, not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4....BUT 5, decided to go out there and COLLECTIVELY deceive the audience. Music, like a lot of other things in life, is a "team sport." Our team simply made some bad decisions for an extended period of time. Blame, like success, should be equal. Or at least close. They ALL fucked up....plain and simple. Giving one member more blame than another is simply semantics. Better times are ahead.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Some of these comments about Augeri being the one who should be blamed for concerts with taped vocals are simply absurd!

I think they all are culpable.
The buck stops with him ultimately.

Why is he the one blamed for tapegate or lipsyncing when he was TOLD to sing with a F@$#ed up voice.

That's illegal.
Neal would've been more than happy for Augeri to have had the sense to gracefully exit.

Augeri has no say in what this band does during a show and all decisions I am sure are made by the BAND and its mgmt.

I don't believe this for a second, and even if it were true, u are doing Augeri no favors by presenting him in this light.
What is he?
Some servile bootlicker completely devoid of free will?
He is the singer and he decides to set foot on the stage w/out a voice.

Neal Schon and the bands mgmt run Journey.

If that were true Neal would've fired Augeri as far back as 2002!

[brywool]

As a rule, he closes any threads that are fallacious.
Just look at this one from last week.

Aren't you missing a "T" in that word?

[kbo]

I think they all are culpable.
The buck stops with him ultimately.

The buck stops with the BAND.

That's illegal.
Neal would've been more than happy for Augeri to have had the sense to gracefully exit.

How would you know? Neal controls Augeri and whether or not he sings for the band! Don't be a dumbass thinking otherwise.

I don't believe this for a second, and even if it were true, u are doing Augeri no favors by presenting him in this light.
What is he?
Some servile bootlicker completely devoid of free will?
He is the singer and he decides to set foot on the stage w/out a voice.

He is under contract and also a replacement singer! The band even pays someone to wipe his ass.. They make the decisions and tell him what to do. Either sing or go work for the GAP!

If that were true Neal would've fired Augeri as far back as 2002!

And monkeys fly out of your ass!

[Crazie Scarab]

I think they all are culpable.
The buck stops with him ultimately.

The buck stops with the BAND.

That's illegal.
Neal would've been more than happy for Augeri to have had the sense to gracefully exit.

How would you know? Neal controls Augeri and whether or not he sings for the band! Don't be a dumbass thinking otherwise.

I don't believe this for a second, and even if it were true, u are doing Augeri no favors by presenting him in this light.
What is he?
Some servile bootlicker completely devoid of free will?
He is the singer and he decides to set foot on the stage w/out a voice.

He is under contract and also a replacement singer! The band even pays someone to wipe his ass.. They make the decisions and tell him what to do. Either sing or go work for the GAP!

If that were true Neal would've fired Augeri as far back as 2002!

And monkeys fly out of your ass!

Who are you? Steve's fuckin' lawyer?

[kbo]

Just trying to use COMMON FUCKING SENSE!

The guy is a replacement singer that signed a contract to "SING and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD"! This is NEALS band and always has been.

Everyone thinks Steve A has a voice to make decisions. I'm saying he doesn't have a leg to stand on.. The BAND did everyone WRONG and should have replaced him sooner and should have spoken the truth.


Doesn't take a lawyer to figure that out..

[Crazie Scarab]

Just trying to use COMMON FUCKING SENSE!

The guy is a replacement singer that signed a contract to "SING and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD"! This is NEALS band and always has been.

Everyone thinks Steve A has a voice to make decisions. I'm saying he doesn't have a leg to stand on.. The BAND did everyone WRONG and should have replaced him sooner and should have spoken the truth.


Doesn't take a lawyer to figure that out..

You, just as I, have no idea what is written in the contract. Don't pretend to know anything, as you know nothing.

[kbo]

I'll agree with that point, we don't know for sure. But, it's clear as day that this guy isn't talking for a reason.

[Rockindeano]

Just trying to use COMMON FUCKING SENSE!

The guy is a replacement singer that signed a contract to "SING and DO WHAT HE IS TOLD"! This is NEALS band and always has been.

Everyone thinks Steve A has a voice to make decisions. I'm saying he doesn't have a leg to stand on.. The BAND did everyone WRONG and should have replaced him sooner and should have spoken the truth.


Doesn't take a lawyer to figure that out..

Dude, bitch, whatever you are, you might want to consider stopping now and saving face.

You haven't been right on anything so far. I know what went down, and you haven't been close yet.

[kbo]

Dude Bitch, speak then. Andrew won't speak out of respect for the band.. What's your excuse?

[Rockindeano]

Dude Bitch, speak then. Andrew won't speak out of respect for the band.. What's your excuse?

Respect for the band.

[Monker]

not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4....BUT 5

You can count, can't you? What the hell am I supposed to do with an empty case?

[Monker]

I think they all are culpable.
The buck stops with him ultimately.

Bullshit. They all stood behind him. They are ALL to blame. The ones who believe otherwise just want to kiss the band's ass.

That's illegal.
Neal would've been more than happy for Augeri to have had the sense to gracefully exit.

Too bad SS didn't work out then. The bottom line is that Neal needs Journey just as much as Augeri did.

It's funny...you read the interviews on THIS VERY SITE from last year and their is ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE that anybody is unhappy with anybody. This ENTIRE situation exists because of the bands own greed and their own calous behavior. Now you try to make Neal look 'nice' because he would have been 'happy' for Augeri to quit? If Neal had the balls that you all seem to believe he has, he wouldn't have stood on stage with him...if he didn't want him in "HIS" band.

If that were true Neal would've fired Augeri as far back as 2002!

Nothing was FORCING Neal to peform with Augeri. Too bad the band was making all of that money on tour with Augeri. He has to pay his bills, doesn't hie?

[ArnelRox]

If Neal had the balls that you all seem to believe he has, he wouldn't have stood on stage with him...if he didn't want him in "HIS" band.

Oh but don't u remember Neal stood on stage w/Perry for years & hated what he was doing? Don't u remember Perry saying Neal mocked his vocals for Open Arms so bad he requested Neal leave before he finish the track?

How short ur memory is Monker. Neal has obviously bitten his tongue many times in the last 30 yrs for the good of the band.

[Monker]

Oh but don't u remember Neal stood on stage w/Perry for years & hated what he was doing? Don't u remember Perry saying Neal mocked his vocals for Open Arms so bad he requested Neal leave before he finish the track?

No, I don't remember that. I remember him saying that he HATED Perry during the recording of ROR...but, when did he say HATED performing with Steve Perry?

How short ur memory is Monker. Neal has obviously bitten his tongue many times in the last 30 yrs for the good of the band.

LOL...Yeah, this has REALLY been 'good for the band'. There must be an alternate version of the word 'good' that means turning something into a scandal ridden joke.

[Monker]

Respect for the band.

Yeah, right. Whatever serves YOUR purpose is where you go.

When it serves your purpose to say JSS doesn't fit the band and sounds like crap, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to say he is the next best singer to Perry, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to blame the entire band for using tapes, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to lay it all on Augeri, that's what you say.

All you do is spew band related propaganda.

[ArnelRox]

No, I don't remember that. I remember him saying that he HATED Perry during the recording of ROR...but, when did he say HATED performing with Steve Perry?.

I am a bit drunk tonite Monker. Too drunk to go looking up quotes I'm afraid. Remind me tomorrow & I'll look up where Steve said he had to ask Neal to leave the studio to finish OA b/c it was too annoying & where Neal said OA was a Mary Poppins type song. I know those quotes are out there. In fact, they're even mentioned in Shania's book.

He hated Perry back then. Hated performing w/him. But then he saw how crowds reacted. Hmmm. kinda the same thing as SA isn't it? Crowds (in the front anyway) liked SA.

[ArnelRox]

Yeah, right. Whatever serves YOUR purpose is where you go.

When it serves your purpose to say JSS doesn't fit the band and sounds like crap, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to say he is the next best singer to Perry, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to blame the entire band for using tapes, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to lay it all on Augeri, that's what you say.

All you do is spew band related propaganda.

So then what exactly IS Dean's purpose? Could he maybe be just a fervent passionate fan whose opininon CAN be changed by what he sees & hears?

Wooooooh Think about that one. DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.

[Monker]

No, I don't remember that. I remember him saying that he HATED Perry during the recording of ROR...but, when did he say HATED performing with Steve Perry?.

I am a bit drunk tonite Monker. Too drunk to go looking up quotes I'm afraid. Remind me tomorrow & I'll look up where Steve said he had to ask Neal to leave the studio to finish OA b/c it was too annoying & where Neal said OA was a Mary Poppins type song. I know those quotes are out there. In fact, they're even mentioned in Shania's book.

He hated Perry back then. Hated performing w/him. But then he saw how crowds reacted. Hmmm. kinda the same thing as SA isn't it? Crowds (in the front anyway) liked SA.

There's a difference between HATING a person and HATING a song.

I did NOT say anything about Neal hating Open Arms when he first heard it, or your comments about recording it.

You said he hated performing with Perry. THAT is the quote I want to see. Even during ROR, Neal seemed to be all smiles...they even wanted to CONTINUE THE TOUR.

Sure, there were things they didn't like towards the end...Perry leaving early, traveling completely separate from the band, etc...But, I do not recall ANY quotes saying, "Gee, I hated getting onstage and performing beside Steve Perry." If they exist, believe me, I want to know about it. I'm sure I can make good use out of them.

[Monker]

So then what exactly IS Dean's purpose?

Well, since you asked. He's Journey's propaganda bitch.

Could he maybe be just a fervent passionate fan whose opininon CAN be changed by what he sees & hears?

No...not when they change practicaly overnight for no specific reason.

[bionic]

Journey isn't the one gunking up the works.
It's a soon-to-be ex-member that is strangulating the boys coffers and nickel and diming them to death!

Steve Augeri- u are a crookedy nosed guido punk.

Get over urself and give Jeff the same chance the boys generously gave u back in 1998.

As always you are the voice of reality my friend, not such a Mr Awesome is he

[bionic]

to

Do you think you can fool all the people for two hours and no-one will spot it??.

He didn't and some did.
"The truth is out there"

Maybe it was not the entire show, but it did happen.

It was well disguised then, we stayed just off south Bridge Street after the Edinburgh gig and there was a family and two other couples in the bar that night that had been at the show - none of them saw it but hey if some did it must be true. You've convinced me and I'm sure someone will post links to the supporting evidence shortly - will check back tomorrow.

pdsidd, many of us were sceptical...at first. But, the evidence was presented here & many music professionals, including Jeremey, gave extensive explanations - such as how these boots could not have been manipulated by any one other than a person who had access to the masters (I hope I described that right). Personally, I had no dislike of SA (and I still don't) - but, I disliked being conned. Before the "lipsynch - tapegate" came out, I had thought it was rather odd that SA's voice was so rough one night at a concert on some songs & fine on others & then I thought to myself how strange that the PA was playing "Beyond the Clouds" as we were exiting the Greek & it sounded as clear as when SA was up on stage singing with all the audience yelling up front...how did his voice come across without the audience noise? Only after I heard about the "rumors" and listened to the evidence & compared that I came to my conclusion - that yes, I believe the mic was turned off on stage & tapes were coming across thru the PA.
I also think the eyewitness of Svante, the journalist in Sweden was entirely credible.
Believe me, we would all love to know "the truth" but if the band & SA & mgt do not give it to us then we are left to our own conclusions.

I'd love to know the truth too, but the Edinburgh gig in June was the best concert I've ever been to and that's not just because of Steve A, it was a collective thing. The rumours of lip-syncing tarnish the memory for me of what was a great gig and there was nothing to suggest anything but a complete band performance. Obviously things went awry when the band got back to the states or they wouldn't have brought in JSS but I find it hard to believe that people wouldn't pick up on the vocalist miming in Edinburgh? It just pushes credibility too far? I don't know Svante from Adam but I've already seen him described as a sound engineer and a journalist - which is he? and I'm sure he's a good source but as a manager I wouldn't take someone into a disciplinary meeting without evidence - hearsay is worth nothing, evidence is everything and that's all I'm asking for. Point me to a video that has no crowd noise where there should be crowd noise or whatever and I'm a believer but when push comes to shove you believe your own eyes and ears and I was in Edinburgh and if Steve was miming he was absolute perfection at it because I couldn't tell he was doing it.

Like you say we may never know the truth but I'd hate to see a great singer's reputation ruined without good cause. I'm just like that.

I noticed that his voice seemed detached when i was at Manchester but thought nothing of it, i then spoke to a friend who reliably informed me that he was all tape and has been for years! Work it out he is what 48 and is expected to replicate Perry in his late 20's to early 30's! not going to happen belive me,evan Perry cant do what he used to and he is better tahn Augeri will ever be.What i will say is this Augeri is not the mr.nice guy everyone thinks he is ,yes he is great to his fans but there is a lot more going on than you will ever know. Take Generations and the tours of late is it not a strange thing that Dean
seems to be singing more and on the record they all share vocal duties? I will say this to you with hand on heart i was a big supporter of Augeri in Journey and when i heard the tape gate scandel i did as much research as i could to find the truth. I have spoken to people in the Journey camp and people who have heard it from the band members themselves about his use of tapes,no i wont disclose who has told me but i have no reason to lie to you. Finally if all this was lies Deano and his tapegate site would have got sued big time,ever wonder why he never seemed worried about that

[bionic]

Unfortunately I have to agree with pdsidd on this one. Even after all the stuff that's been said here I still stick to my original thoughts on the Edinburgh gig. And just for the record, a good friend of mine was at Manchester and never mentioned any problem with Faithfully either.

I'm not saying what you hear on stage is completely pure, obviously all bands with use some form of enhancements. But like I said, what's been suggested here i.e. miming to a tape of his own voice for the whole gig... 2 feet away I think I would have noticed. But maybe I was on something that night...

Thats the whole point you are not meant to notice!!!! Could you honestly say if Neal was miming a guitar part? How would you know, how would you know if Augeri was miming unless you was looking for it? I respect that you choose not to belive, keep your memories as they are,but not all is as it seems.

[thebook]

Respect for the band.

Yeah, right. Whatever serves YOUR purpose is where you go.

When it serves your purpose to say JSS doesn't fit the band and sounds like crap, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to say he is the next best singer to Perry, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to blame the entire band for using tapes, that's what you say. When it serves your purpose to lay it all on Augeri, that's what you say.

All you do is spew band related propaganda.

Does this band still deserve any respect? Hell, they got caught lip-synching via the internet. Talk about "fracturing the stone".
I wonder what Herbie thinks. He must be laughing his ass off.

[bluejeangirl76]

This is NEALS band and always has been.

Haha! Good one! That was too funny.

...oh wait....you were serious? That's even funnier.

Neal himself has said that Perry was running the whole thing. As far as post-Perry Journey, I can't speak for that becuase I lost interest with those last 2 "albums" and I don't really care WHO'S idea it was to use tapes becuase no matter who's it was, it was a horrible idea. This band has always been known for their live playing, they are certainly better live, that is until 1998, and now that has been completely trashed by this tape business - which by the way is OVER... good god...you guys honestly don't know how to let anything rest do you?

How many damn threads do there need to be about this?

[pdsidd]

I know this'll sound stupid as I'm apparently one of the stupid f*cks who is not a believer in what the conspiracy theorists are bandying about. Here's my three cents worth though. If Journey were reliant on lip syncing and tapes why the hell swap the singer?

Surely if you got tapes there's no reason to swap singers?? Why go to all the trouble?

Am sure the answer will be because Augeri got found out - but how would he get found out?? If you were going to have taped vocals you wouldn't rely on a single 'tape' - you'd have it running from a couple of laptops if you were going to do that so you'd have contingency - after all it'd just be another channel on the desk. In fact you'd probably have two running together anyway in sync into two channels so if one went down for whatever reason you'd have backup on the other channel.


I apologise for the boring-ness of the post but I don't buy it. Sorry.

[Crazie Scarab]

Surely if you got tapes there's no reason to swap singers?? Why go to all the trouble?

To gain respect back by both their fans and the music industry as a whole. Maybe?

[Amanda]

To gain respect by music industry as a whole. Maybe?

A little quote editing there to get to my point: do you think the music industry ever respected them?

And for the tape aftermath - I think there was more of a fan fallout than music industry fallout, in my opinion.

[Saint John]

not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4....BUT 5

You can count, can't you? What the hell am I supposed to do with an empty case?

WTF does this mean? Please explain.

[Crazie Scarab]

To gain respect by music industry as a whole. Maybe?

A little quote editing there to get to my point: do you think the music industry ever respected them?

And for the tape aftermath - I think there was more of a fan fallout than music industry fallout, in my opinion.

Good points. However, they certainly weren't going to gain any industry respect by way of the road they were travelling, before JSS came on board. I guess I should have been a little more specific.